Things in common between Muslims and Christians

[Sunnih]

As it seems that Muslims and Christians differ a lot in their beliefs, I thought to open a thread also on what we agree.

So I will start that Muslims and Christians alike, agree that there is a God.

[Woodrow]

We do agree that Isa(as) was born of a virgin mother.

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

We also belive in life after death and that the life lived in this life affects the life we will be given in the hereafter

Allah knows best

[Amadeus85]

We also agree that Jesus Christ will come at the end of the world-the Judgement Day.

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[Balthasar21]

The same ( Prophet's )
Pilgrimage .
Jesus name in Qur'aan
2;81 , 2 ; 130 , 2; 254 ,
3 ; 40 . 3 ; 48 ; 3 ; 53 ,
4 ; 156 ; 4 ; 151 , 4 ; 169 ,
5 ; 50 . 5 ; 82 , 5 ; 109 ,
5 ; 112 , 5 ; 114 , 5 ; 116 ,
6; 85 , 19 ; 35 , 33 ; 7 , 42 ; 11
43 ; 63 ; 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 , 61 ; 14 .

Characters ( Genesis 17 ; 18 , Joshua 24 ; 4 , Matthew 17 ; 4 , Koran 2 ; 136
Creation ( Genesis 1 ; 31 , 1 ; 3 , 2 ; 4 , ) Koran 2; 117 , 7 ; 54 , 23 ; 12 , )
Idea of Hell and Heaven ( Genesis 8 ; 2 , Deuteronomy 32 ; 22 , ) ( Koran 2 ; 9 -11 , 15 ; 45 - 48 )
System of prayer ( Genesis 17 ; 3 , Koran 96 ; 19 ) .
Fasting ( Judge 20 ; 26 , Koran 2 ; 184 ) .
Dietary laws in relation to eating pig or not eating pig ( Leviticus 11; 7 , Koran 5 ; 4 )

Just to name few

[Keltoi]

We have more in common than we have differences. The list of things we share in common could go on for quite awhile.

[Woodrow]

We have more in common than we have differences. The list of things we share in common could go on for quite awhile.

That is true. In fact I can only think of one major difference, but that difference is sufficient to make us 2 different religions.

We need to all learn that we are all just one race of human beings and that our religious beliefs should not be a cause for hatred between us as humans.

I do believe that in the last days there will finaly be one religion. However, I doubt that will be in my life time.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I love these verses from the Qur'an :) hope you like them too:

You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

And when they (who call themselves Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses.


"And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism)? And we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his Companions رضى م)."


So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good*doers.

But those who disbelieved and belied Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they shall be the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire.


[Qur'an 5: 82-86]

Regards.

[August]

We both believe in charity for the poor.

[Philosopher]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

[Chuck]

:sl:

:salamext:


I love these verses from the Qur'an :) hope you like them too:

You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

And when they (who call themselves Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses.


"And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism)? And we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his Companions رضى م)."


So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good*doers.

But those who disbelieved and belied Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they shall be the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire.


[Qur'an 5: 82-86]

Regards.

That is not general to all Christians imo. It is specifically directed to some Christian groups that came to the prophet (pbuh) and then it list the qualities why they were closer to us -- "That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant". I guess it would apply to Christians in this day too who posses these qualities. But it is difficult to say who they are. Only Allah knows.

Read on the Nazarenes, something weird about them is that not much historical record available after prophet Muhammad (p). It appears either they disappeared or integrated into Islam.

Epiphanius (published in 370), gave this description of the Nazarenes:

"But these sectarians... did not call themselves Christians--but "Nazarenes," ... However they are simply complete Jews. They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do... They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion-- except for their belief in Messiah, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that G-d is one, and that his son is Jesus the Messiah. They are trained to a nicety in Hebrew. For among them the entire Law, the Prophets, and the... Writings... are read in Hebrew, as they surely are by the Jews. They are different from the Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following. They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Messiah; but since they are still fettered by the Law--circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest-- they are not in accord with Christians.... they are nothing but Jews.... They have the Good News according to Matthew in its entirety in Hebrew. For it is clear that they still preserve this, in the Hebrew alphabet, as it was originally written. (Epiphanius; Panarion 29)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazaren...22Nazarenes.22

********************
but there's little further evidence of these groups' existence, beliefs or activities, after the onset of Islam.

http://nazarenes.totallyexplained.com/

[Chuck]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

That was hilarious :giggling:

[Strzelecki]

That was hilarious :giggling:

I too laughed. :P

[Woodrow]

That was hilarious :giggling:

Another point in common. I also believe that was hilarious.

[zoro]

Well, sorry to douse the merriment, but there a host of more serious similarities:

• Both “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
• Both “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
• Both wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever
• Both display less scientific competence than children
• Both cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books
• Both accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data supports such speculations
• Both have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans
• Both now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,
• Both murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”
• Both put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and
• Both are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.

[Woodrow]

Quite strong statements. Oddly I will agree with you that they are all true.

Well, sorry to douse the merriment, but there a host of more serious similarities:

• Both “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
• Both “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
• Both wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever
• Both display less scientific competence than children
• Both cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books
• Both accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data supports such speculations
• Both have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans
• Both now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,
• Both murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”
• Both put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and
• Both are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.

However, I will add the qualifier. those are not the result of religious belief. they are things we share in common as human beings. Those very same "facts" are also applicable to atheists and agnostics. So to be fair you should say "These are things in common between, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Atheists, Agnostic, etc" Your statement would be even more valid if written as:

• All “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
(although the believe may also be in the material, scientific world)

• All “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
(The scientist believes that all things can be measured)


• All wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever(see note below)

• All display less scientific competence than children
(The Scientist, fails to accept the fact that because he can not measure something, only means he lacks the tools for measurement)

• All cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books

• All accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data supports such speculations
(What is scientific to some is suoernatural to others and vice versa)


• All have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans

• All now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,

• All murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”

• All put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and

• All are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.
(We will all face death, oblivion is simply a personal opinion as to how we will face it)

NOTE: For the benefit of atheists This would be more accurate as "All wallow in the delusion that they’ll either cease to exist or live forever, but either way eternity will be there"

[zoro]

Well, Woodrow, as per usual you make good points – yet, as per usual, we have differences in opinions – and definitions! Point by point (with your wording):

• All “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
(although the belief may also be in the material, scientific world)

Here, I would want an exposition on the word “belief”. Thus, as a scientist, rather than stating that I “believe” in an objective, material reality external to my mind, I would say that there is a 99.999999999…% probability [to a total of about 25 nines] that it exists. Thus, I base that “belief” on evidence.

• All “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
(The scientist believes that all things can be measured)

Again in my case, rather than say I believe that all things can be measured, I would say that evidence suggests that there’s a 99.99 % chance (I won’t push that much higher, cause I’m worried about “dark matter”) that things external to my mind can be measured. And again, evidence supports the estimate (i.e., supports the “belief”).

• All wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever
Note: For the benefit of atheists This would be more accurate as "All wallow in the delusion that they’ll either cease to exist or live forever, but either way eternity will be there"

Yes, but one would be hard pressed to defend that they “wallow” in such a delusion; I, for one, rather wish that I wouldn’t die, but “c’est la vie” – even if that does stretch the meaning of the French!

• All display less scientific competence than children
(The Scientist fails to accept the fact that because he can not measure something, only means he lacks the tools for measurement)

Ah but you’re taking this one too far! My point was (and is): if you inform a child that you can jump over the moon, then in her appropriate terminology, she’ll say: “Please provide an experimental confirmation of the predictions of your hypothesis”, e.g., “betcha can’t!” On the other hand, once a child is indoctrinated (by those she trusts, such as her parents) that she can live forever in paradise, she loses the natural skepticism that challenged your ability to jump over the moon.

• All cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books

• All accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data support such speculations
(What is scientific to some is supernatural to others and vice versa)

Ah, come on now, you’ve just slipped that one in – hoping I wouldn’t notice?! Science has nothing to do with anything supernatural! Meanwhile, anyone who suggests that there’s something “scientific” about the supernatural doesn’t understand science.

• All have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans

Well, that’s silly! Those of us who reject ideas about “the supernatural” certainly don’t then (inconsistently) make any assumption about such things!

• All now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,

• All murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”

• All put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and

• All are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.
(We will all face death, oblivion is simply a personal opinion as to how we will face it)

Well, with those expansions to “all”, I can see some justification for such generalizations (thinking of the Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists, etc.); yet, as far as I know, they’re inappropriate for humanists – so maybe better: “All except humanists…” etc.

And yes: maybe oblivion for all, since even though we may live through our collision with the Andromeda galaxy (in a few billion years), Earth will be swallowed up by the sun in about 5 billion years. But then, surely by that time, humans will make it to other star systems – and maybe even to other galaxies. Moreover, as for “oblivion” with death: so long as we leave something that benefits future generations, then in a sense, we live on.

[- Qatada -]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians? :)

[August]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians? :)

Yeah, we've gotten sidetracked by a rude atheist. I used to be one btw.

Here's what I see as the largest similarity: we are both doing our best to love and honor our Creator.

[جوري]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians? :)

it was but then we fell prey to the highly anticipated feedback from

[Woodrow]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians? :)

Quite true. I accept the guilt here. However, I could not think of a more appropriate way to answer what an athiest sees as similarities between Muslims and Christians. It was easier to show that those were common traits among people and not limited to Muslim/Christian

[Sunnih]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

And they both agree that you are extremely missguided and astray.

[Sunnih]

Well, sorry to douse the merriment, but there a host of more serious similarities:

• Both “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
• Both “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
• Both wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever
• Both display less scientific competence than children
• Both cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books
• Both accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data supports such speculations
• Both have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans
• Both now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,
• Both murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”
• Both put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and
• Both are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.

And both claim that the ignorance of those who do not believe in God can only be measured by their arrogance.

[Sunnih]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians? :)

It is, my brother. Don't you see that both are hated by pagans? :D

[zoro]

Philosopher:

Do you have any idea what “pagans” and “atheists” they’re referring to?

“Rude” I can identify. Have a look at her personal attacks at http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...belief-13.html . I wonder what ever happened to the forum rule:

Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beefs are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting somebody) 15-25% warning

I wonder if there’s a rule against posting people’s pictures! And then the funniest thing happens: whenever she finally sees that she’s losing an argument (and I haven’t seen her win one yet!), she suggests that the thread be closed – and they close it!

As for “hate”, I gotta admit that I’m really getting to hate not so much ignorance as refusal to learn. Therein lies true “arrogance”. And the combination of ignorance and arrogance is something else: as you no doubt know, it’s called “the criminal arrogance of religion.” Unfortunately, though, this “crime against humanity” is still “just” an intellectual crime.

To me, it’s amazing how well Sam Harris described it in his book “The End of Faith” (with these quotes available at www.samharris.org/ )

“It seems that if our species ever eradicates itself through war, it will not be because it was written in the stars but because it was written in our books; it is what we do with words like “God” and “paradise” and “sin” in the present that will determine our future.” [p.12]

“Our technical advances in the art of war have finally rendered our religious differences – and hence our religious beliefs – antithetical to our survival. We can no longer ignore the fact that billions of our neighbors believe in the metaphysics of martyrdom, or in the literal truth of the book of Revelation, or any of the other fantastical notions that have lurked in the minds of the faithful for millennia – because our neighbors are now armed with chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. There is no doubt that these developments mark the terminal phase of our credulity. Words like “God” and “Allah” must go the way of “Apollo” and “Baal,” or they will unmake our world.” [p.13]

“Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever.” [p.19]

“Our world is fast succumbing to the activities of men and women who would stake the future of our species on beliefs that should not survive an elementary school education. That so many of us are still dying on account of ancient myths is as bewildering as it is horrible, and our own attachment to these myths, whether moderate or extreme, has kept us silent in the face of developments that could ultimately destroy us. Indeed, religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it was at any time in the past.” [p.25]

“We live in an age in which most people believe that mere words – ‘Jesus,’ ‘Allah,’ ‘Ram’ – can mean the difference between eternal torment and bliss everlasting. Considering the stakes here, it is not surprising that many of us occasionally find it necessary to murder other human beings for using the wrong magic words, or the right ones for the wrong reasons. How can any person presume to know that this is the way the universe works? Because it says so in our holy books. How do we know that our holy books are free from error? Because the books themselves say so. Epistemological black holes of this sort are fast draining the light from our world.” [p.35]

And though I admit to becoming despondent that we’ll ever be able to help them out of the “epistemological black holes” in which their arrogant ignorance has trapped them, yet I find renewed hope in how Isaac Asimov replied to the question why he fights religion with no hope of victory:

Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug superstition to their breasts.

So, “bottoms up” and “good cheer” to the one in a hundred thousand!

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Sunnih;

Thank you for starting this thread and we do need to listen to each other more

We agree on good qualities like justice, peace, tolerance, understanding, love, mercy and forgiveness, now we just have to learn how to share these gifts with each other.

And to our agnostic and atheist friends on this forum, how can we find things in common with you also?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[Malaikah]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

Both believe Atheists are destined to Hell. :rollseyes

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah;

Both believe Atheists are destined to Hell. :rollseyes

In fairness some Muslims believe that Christians will go to hell, and some Christians believe that Muslims will go to hell.

If we are to seek what is just and right then it must be just and right for all people, not just select people of one faith group.

I have family and friends of many faiths and no faith, just learning from history it is very unlikely that they will change their beliefs to my faith. I pray that a loving and merciful God can give them salvation also.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[zoro]

Eric H.

We agree on good qualities like justice, peace, tolerance, understanding, love, mercy and forgiveness, now we just have to learn how to share these gifts with each other.

And to our agnostic and atheist friends on this forum, how can we find things in common with you also?

Very well said! But then, there’s no need to search to “find things in common”: as near as I can assure you of anything, I assure you that all humanists share those “good qualities” that you listed – I’d even call them quintessential “humanist attributes”!

But what moves some of us to object to “supernatural stuff” is when such (nonsense) is used as the basis for taking other people’s lands (e.g., in Palestine), inhibiting scientific understanding (e.g., in the U.S.), and killing innocent people (e.g., suicide bombers). That’s when we start hollering: “Hey, wait a minute; enough's enough. What evidence supports your 'beliefs'? And if none, then how about smartening up?!"

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro;

I assure you that all humanists share those “good qualities” that you listed – I’d even call them quintessential “humanist attributes”!

I would say that most humanists recognise these quintessential attributes but practicing what we preach tends to make us all hypocrites.

If humanists share this need for justice, mercy, love, forgiveness, tolerance and understanding then they should seek it not only for their own kind but for people of other beliefs, like Muslims, Christians, Hindu, etc.

But what moves some of us to object to “supernatural stuff” is when such (nonsense) is used as the basis for taking other people’s lands (e.g., in Palestine),

Supernatural stuff has nothing to do with man’s problems, our problems are being self centred, striving for power, wealth, greed and lust.

inhibiting scientific understanding (e.g., in the U.S.)

But how is scientific understanding going to overcome man’s desire for power, wealth greed and lust?

, and killing innocent people (e.g., suicide bombers). That’s when we start hollering: “Hey, wait a minute; enough's enough. What evidence supports your 'beliefs'? And if none, then how about smartening up?!"

The Christian inquisitions were absolutely wrong but where did Christ say that we should torture people into believing. It was very sick and sadistic people trying to justify their need for sadism through very warped logic that led people to do these evil things.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[barney]

Both beleive in Gabrial and the angels, Demons, heaven, hell, , good deeds being rewarded in the afterlife, disbeleif resulting in punishment.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro, it sounds as if you have had some confrontations with theists in the past. But I don’t believe that you can judge God by the people who follow him.

The greatest thing Christians are commanded to do is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves.

All the laws and all the prophets of God hang on and depend on these two commandments; We are asked to love and to pray for our enemies. In many ways to follow Christ is to put others first, and that is a very unnatural and almost impossible thing for us to do at times.

The question of heaven and hell is for God to decide but I believe that God is just and forgiving.

I feel that if we strive to forgive those who have harmed us; then we may start to understand just a little how God can forgive us.

In the spirit of praying to a just and forgiving God

Eric

[snakelegs]

both maintain that they are The One True Religion and that unless you follow them, you will go to hell and both believe they must proselytize.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro,

Before we can help others to find peace we must first strive to find peace in our own heart. The greatest commandments are more to do with trying to change ourselves, rather than trying to change other people.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[Phil12123]

In another thread, we concluded that Muslims and Christians can agree to the following 9 statements:

1. We are all sinners, whether daily or hourly, in word, thought, or deed.

2. Heaven is a perfect place where no sin will ever enter.

3. Without forgiveness of sins, no sinner will ever enter Heaven.

4. No sinner can work enough, or do anything, or be "good" enough, to deserve Heaven.

5. Muslims are hoping in their believing in One God, striving to follow Prophet Muhammad's sunnah (traditions), doing good deeds as much as possible, and in their repentance and Allah's mercy to overcome their sin problem and enter Heaven, which they can never be assured of until the Judgment Day.

6. Christians are relying on repentance and faith in Christ's atoning death for sins, and resurrection, as payment in full for all their sins, in order to receive forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift, here and now and forevermore.

7. According to the Muslim view, Christ did not die on the cross, let alone for anyone's sins. This view is diametrically and irreconcilably opposed to the Christian Gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose again.

8. According to the Christian view, a person who denies the Deity of Christ will die in his sins (John 8:24,58), and be barred from Heaven.

9. According to the Muslim view, believing Christ is God is associating with Allah, the unforgiveable sin that will bar a person from Heaven.

Now, I understand that atheists and agnostics will not agree with the above but nevertheless the above are "things in common between Muslims and Christians" in terms of what we agree on, and so I present them here.

Peace

[جوري]

Why do you insinuate yourself in a topic that doesn't concern you? You are neither Christian nor a Muslim, are you a man in tow with a need to ooze some cynicism where ever opportunity presents itself?

G-D exists, or he doesn't.. to you he doesn't... this topic therefore can do without your input. You are a Christian or Muslim, obviously you are neither, again a place where this topic doesn't concern you .
post your Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Democritus, Euclid, or Archimedes points and/or quotes under a thread where their input can somehow relate to the subject matter. We get it, your point is loud and clear-- you are oh so cultured because you have let go of religion.

[Phil12123]

Why do you insinuate yourself in a topic that doesn't concern you? You are neither Christian nor a Muslim, are you a man in tow with a need to ooze some cynicism where ever opportunity presents itself?

G-D exists, or he doesn't.. to you he doesn't... this topic therefore can do without your input. You are a Christian or Muslim, obviously you are neither, again a place where this topic doesn't concern you .
post your Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Democritus, Euclid, or Archimedes points and/or quotes under a thread where their input can somehow relate to the subject matter. We get it, your point is loud and clear-- you are oh so cultured because you have let go of religion.

Wow! Right on! Agreed, agreed, agreed!!! So well put.

[Gangster No.1]

We also agree that Jesus Christ will come at the end of the world-the Judgement Day.

:sl:

I have a question for christians:

As WE BOTH believe that jesus will come at the end of the world toward the day of judgment:

Say that does happen!
hypthetically talking would christians convert to islam, once Jesus has revealed himself as to believ that there is no god, but allah, and muhammad is the final messenger, basically decalring that he is a muslim and not the son of god.


Muslims belive he will come from heaven to earth, and i think christains also belive that to, so WOULD you ?


This question is Hypethicall, obvsiouly at the MOMENT christians dont belive that islam is the true religion and muslims belive christanity is the true religion, but as we both agree and we both have the same beliefe of his arrival to earth from heave, so would you belive?

[Keltoi]

:sl:

I have a question for christians:

As WE BOTH believe that jesus will come at the end of the world toward the day of judgment:

Say that does happen!
hypthetically talking would christians convert to islam, once Jesus has revealed himself as to believ that there is no god, but allah, and muhammad is the final messenger, basically decalring that he is a muslim and not the son of god.


Muslims belive he will come from heaven to earth, and i think christains also belive that to, so WOULD you ?


This question is Hypethicall, obvsiouly at the MOMENT christians dont belive that islam is the true religion and muslims belive christanity is the true religion, but as we both agree and we both have the same beliefe of his arrival to earth from heave, so would you belive?

That is a pointless question, as we do not believe there is any possibility of that occurring, but just for the sake of giggles, if Jesus returned to Earth and commanded people to call themselves Muslims, I assume you would agree none of us would have any choice in the matter, with the reverese scenario producing the same result I'm sure.

[ummAbdillah]

:sl:
we agree that god is the source of peace:)
:w:

[Sunnih]

Greetings and peace be with you Sunnih;

Thank you for starting this thread and we do need to listen to each other more

We agree on good qualities like justice, peace, tolerance, understanding, love, mercy and forgiveness, now we just have to learn how to share these gifts with each other.

And to our agnostic and atheist friends on this forum, how can we find things in common with you also?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

Same to you Eric.

Yes we should bring out the similarities of our religions and not let our differences hide what we have in common.

Take care.:thumbs_up

[Sunnih]

Eric H.



Very well said! But then, there’s no need to search to “find things in common”: as near as I can assure you of anything, I assure you that all humanists share those “good qualities” that you listed – I’d even call them quintessential “humanist attributes”!

But what moves some of us to object to “supernatural stuff” is when such (nonsense) is used as the basis for taking other people’s lands (e.g., in Palestine), inhibiting scientific understanding (e.g., in the U.S.), and killing innocent people (e.g., suicide bombers). That’s when we start hollering: “Hey, wait a minute; enough's enough. What evidence supports your 'beliefs'? And if none, then how about smartening up?!"

Yes we have seen your "evidence" as well and we too ask your likes to smarten up.:D

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all;

Finding things we share in common is a kind of cosy arrangement, because it over looks our differences, and we seem to attract strange alliances. So how do we overcome these important issues we call truth that bring us into conflict with each other?

People seem to be dividing into camps on this thread and taking sides, why do beliefs have to lead us into conflict?

I believe that justice and peace are served in a greater way when we search for justice for someone different to us. I see no reason as to why agnostics, atheists, Christians and Muslims should not get on with each other.

In the spirit of hope.

Eric

[Balthasar21]

The Koran Says ---
( 1 ) . Issa's is actually higher than all the other prophets Koran 2 ; 253 .
( 2 ) . Issa's coming confirms the law that had come before him Koran 5 ; 46 , 61 ; 6 .
( 3 ) . Issa's conception is supernatural making him a unique individual Koran 3 ; 45 , 19 ; 16 -20
( 4 ) .Miracles accompany him Koran 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91
( 5 ) . Issa conquered death and will come at The End of the world Koran 3 ; 55 .
( 6 ) . The Koran says Issa is a messenger , A Prophet , The Word of Allah , And the spirit of Allah , and the messiah , Koran 3 ; 49 , 19;30 ,
( 7 ) . Koran 3 ; 42 says Maryam , Mother of Issa , Was A Noble woman chosen above other women in the world .
( 8 ) . Koran 16 ; 51 , 3 ; 26 Says there is more than one Allah Meaning -- Allahumma <> 3 ; 26 , 5 ; 114 , 8 ; 32 , 10 ; 10 , 39 ; 46 . The word Allahumma mean '' O Allah . The Source - and Hum '' They - The Eloheem Anunnaqis , Allahumma is another word that was derived from The Hebrew word , Eloheem , Meaning '' These Beings Or A Group Of Elohs '' Allahumma or Eloheems are angels of El or messenger of El - Anu . Usually in The Koran when it says , '' That We Did This Or We Created This , Or Our Signs , Etc '' It is referring to these Allahumma or Eloheem , Anunnaqis . They are Physical Angelic Beings ; Not Spooks or Spirits or Ghost .
They are beings that do the work of El , or Allah . The word Allahumma or Eloheems is found throughout The Scroll of The Koran , And is Falsely Translated As A Single , With the word '' God ' , The name Allahumma or Eloheems is used for Benevolent , Agreeable and Malevolent , Disagreeable Beings , And Even In The Case For Human Beings , As Found In Exodus 7 ; 1 When Yahuwa Made Moses And Eloheem To Pharaoh Rameses ll
( 9 ) . Koran says the spirit of Allah camev into Jesus .
(10) . Issa is the saviour

The Bible says ---
( 1 ) . Agreed - Jesus is higher than all of the other prophets .
( 2 ) . Agree -- Prophecy is fulfilled .
( 3 ) . Issa's conception is supernatural making him a unique individual Matthew 1;20
( 4 ) . Miracles accompany him Matthew 6 ; 25 ; Luke 23 ; 8 ; John 4 ; 54 ,
(5 ) . Agreed -- Jesus conquered death and will come at the end of the world .
(6 ) . Agree -- Jesus is a messenger , and a prophet , and the word of Thehos , and the messiah .
(7 ) . Agree - Mary , mother of Jesus , Was A Noble Woman .
(8 ) . Agree - that scriptures use the names of Thehos / Eloheem in pural . The Word Eloheem < Aramic > Means '' These Beings '' Or '' A Group Of Elohs '' Eloheems Are Angels Of '' El '' Or Messengers Of '' El Eloh '' Who Anu . They Are Physical Angelic Beings , Not Spooks Or Spirit Or Ghost . They Are A Host Of Beings That Do The Words Of '' El '' . While On The Planet Earth Under An Appointed Being , Then They Are Called '' El '' Who Under Al Or El . The Word '' Eloheem '' Is Found Throughout The Scroll Of Genesis And Is Falsely Translated As '' God '' The Name Eloheem Is Used For Both '' Agreeable And Disagreeable Beings And Even Humans As In . Exodus 7;1 , When Yahuwa < Aramic > Told Moses That He Will Make Him An Eloheem For The Pharoh .
(9 ) . Agreed - The Spirit Of Thehos Came Into Jesus .
(10 ) . Agreed - Jesus Is The Saviour .

[جوري]

The Koran Says ---
( 1 ) . Issa's is actually higher than all the other prophets Koran 2 ; 253 .
.

let me stop you right there, since you don't bother read what you paste. I can nullify all your gibberish with one aya.. do you think none of us read the Quran?
What is wrong with you?

تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم مَّن كَلَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجَاتٍ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلَ الَّذِينَ مِن بَعْدِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَلَـكِنِ اخْتَلَفُواْ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ آمَنَ وَمِنْهُم مَّن كَفَرَ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلُواْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ {253}

[Pickthal 2:253] Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all;

I am approaching 60, so I may be one of the younger oldies here; and I feel sadness.

I wonder at times is it really possible to forgive someone after they make hurtful comments about us? Do we have the time in our busy lives to walk away from the computer and search for a reply that is kind.

Do we ever stop to ask, how can I as an individual absorb some of the anger and bring a little peace to this world.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our heart.

Eric

[Woodrow]

This was a nice friendly thread trying to help spread Understanding between people of different faiths. Unfortunatly it got hijacked and side tracked.

All off topic and references to such has been deleted. The thread is being locked to keep it from going off topic again.
:threadclo