Why Cant Muslims Just Have an Islamic State?

[Gangster No.1]

:sl:

Islam is the concept of our life as a muslim.

why cant we have a sharia law, obeying the laws of Allah.

What the BIG deal?

[Joe98]

Because Islam teaches that you must follow the laws of the land you are living.

If you love England then live under English laws.

If you love sharia, move to the Islamic countries of Saudia Arabia or Iran.

[vpb]

Islam is the concept of our life as a muslim.

why cant we have a sharia law, obeying the laws of Allah.

What the BIG deal?

1.Allah swt wants so, why we don't know.
2.you can't have bc you are already sorrounded by non-sharia laws, and you can't put sharia cuz of the control.
3.muslims are not practicing Islam completely, they are practicing only parts of it, mixing them with culture. we are sinning too much, which can be a cause of the 1st point
4.they don't want to get invovle in problem to put a shariah law.

etc.

[Pk_#2]

:sl:

Islam is the concept of our life as a muslim.

why cant we have a sharia law, obeying the laws of Allah.

What the BIG deal?

Seeing as you in England

wouldn't you rather be here than say, Iran :rollseyes

Even though we dun have sharia law

If it gets too tuff go to indonesia, but i don't see nothing wrong living here.

You CANN obey the laws of Allah (swt) still.. :D

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[asadxyz]

Assalaamo Alaikum

1.Allah swt wants so, why we don't know.
.

This is beyond my comprehension that we "muslims" always hold Allah Almighty to be responsible for all of our deeds.We do not take the responsibility at all.In the Holy Quran Allah says:

الَّذِينَ إِن مَّكَّنَّاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ وَأَمَرُوا بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَنَهَوْا عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَلِلَّهِ عَاقِبَةُ الْأُمُورِ﴿22:41﴾
These are the people who, if We give them power in the land, will establish .Salat, pay the Zakat dues, enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil, *85 and the final decision of all affairs is in the hand of Allah. *86

It is the our responsiblitiy to establish an Islamic state not God's.

We should not forget this Law of nature :
إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّى يُغَيِّرُواْ مَا بِأَنْفُسِهِمْ
The fact is that Allah does not change a people's lot unless they themselves change their own characteristics:﴿13:11﴾
May Allah Almight show us right path.
Best of luck

[Gangster No.1]

It is obligatory for evry muslim to achieve islamic state tho!

[syilla]

:sl:

i'm not sure why i've interpreted your question differently (1st post).

The way i understood it...

"why is it so hard to create an islamic country with a perfect islamic law?"

am i right?

[HBot 5000]

3.muslims are not practicing Islam completely, they are practicing only parts of it, mixing them with culture. we are sinning too much, which can be a cause of the 1st point

:sl:

Thx for judging and condemning me all at the same time. Who's we mammal? You don't know me. If you are practicing only part and mixing it with culture then blame yourself as you don't know me ... huh .. 'we' ... :raging: :)

:w:

[Gangster No.1]

:sl:

Thx for judging and condemning me all at the same time. Who's we mammal? You don't know me. If you are practicing only part and mixing it with culture then blame yourself as you don't know me ... huh .. 'we' ... :raging: :)

:w:

lol.

Absoloutlety, even though muslims commit sin, and sum muslims refrain from it to the best (hardly commit sin), STILL we should strive and have an islamic state! End of the day an islamic state upholds Allah's laws, that covers punishments in this life for sins commited by muslims, so whats the BIGGY?

EXACTLY, no biggy, the point of this is that, no1 will allow the laws of Allah to be condemded proplley, because its tooo much to handle.

[HBot 5000]

lol.

Absoloutlety, even though muslims commit sin, and sum muslims refrain from it to the best (hardly commit sin), STILL we should strive and have an islamic state! End of the day an islamic state upholds Allah's laws, that covers punishments in this life for sins commited by muslims, so whats the BIGGY?

EXACTLY, no biggy, the point of this is that, no1 will allow the laws of Allah to be condemded proplley, because its tooo much to handle.

^ lol ; i am getting the impression gangster that you like the sound of your own voice 'tooting' or in this case writing. lol

[3isha]

But even in islamic states sins are committed, and they shine more in media.

[Gangster No.1]

The saudi goverment and its leaders are *************
why because they help the sons of ****** the USA
i swear the saudi's are BARE CORRUPT. need a smash in there face, realise that they are art of the cause in Iraq, now!

[...]

If we chose to live in a kafar country then we can't expect them to change their laws

Instead we should ourselves move to an islamic state

And i've heard that your not actually allowed to live in a kafar country unless its for da3wah..

In the time of the prophet (saw) the Muslims were so few yet their iman was strong, and they were united so they established the laws of Islam

Its so much easier to follow islam when you are surrounded by muslims and everyone is striving for the akhirah

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Rose_Ice sis, I think the problem is that there is no Islamic state on earth at the moment. :) Unfortunetly we can't more to the past of future where there was, or will be, one.

Also, it is permissible for Muslims to live in the lands of non-Muslims provided that they are allowed to freely practise their religion.

Please see this thread for a great lecture on that topic:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...lims-west.html

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I've mentioned this hadith quite alot, and it clears up alot of misunderstandings aswell as gives glad tidings:

Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said:

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood," then he kept silent.

[recorded in Musnad Imam Ahmad (v/273)]


We're under the underlined stage, and all the events before it have occured in our islamic history. Inshaa'Allaah the rest of the prophecy will soon come into effect.


According to the hadith, the prophet (peace be upon him) will be followed by rightly guided caliphs and after those caliphs (Abu Baker, Omar, Uthman and Ali) will come hereditary leadership (the other Caliphs) and after that will come tyrannical rule (today) and after that will come a rightly guided caliphs yet again inshaa'Allaah.

We are in a stage where the people who speak out are being tortured and locked up, some even getting killed. Allaah trials the believers through these hardships, and as the muslims face pressure - some turn towards Allaah more whole-heartedly, others turn away from Allaah and follow their society out of fear of following Islaam.

We are in this stage when everyone is in the grey area, but after this hardship - there are two clear distinct groups - Black and White:

1) True Believers

2) Disbelievers


The True believers remain firm on Islaam, and the disbelievers will continue trying to eradicate Islaam.

Yet after this hardship, when Allaah knows the believers are worthy of their own state. He grants it to them, yet they still may be in a state of fear and get attacked by the enemy. This is like the Early Medinan Period.

However, if the Muslims remain firm on emaan and establish the salaah, pay the zakaah, enjoin the good, forbid the evil etc. Then He will continue supporting them.


As the muslims grow in strength by the will of Allaah, they will stay firm and defeat the enemy who comes to attack them - because the enemy wants to destroy Islaam since it is an opposition to their power.

Once the muslims become firm and strong, and a strength against the believers - then many people may secretly do Hijrah from the land of disbelief, to the land of Islaam. To the extent that the enemy feels that the muslims are so strong, that they have no other choice apart from a peace treaty.

Within this peace treaty time, alot of muslims will travel and make hijrah to the muslim land.


However now that the muslims are a power of their own, this is the time when the amount of hypocrites who pretend to be muslims will become on the increase, and the threat from the inside will be big. However, the believers will still remain successful so long as they keep their duties to Allaah.

Now that they are a power, they would do dawah to other lands and spread Islaam to other areas.


As they continue their dawah and fight to make Islaam the highest, then they are likely to get many spoils of war [wealth etc.] And they will become a powerful nation so long as they remain firm in their Islaam.

However, as time progresses the muslims will have soo much wealth that they will get attatched to this world instead of the hereafter. They will have so much wealth that many of the believers will start to prefer this world over the hereafter. They will then indulge in many sins. To the extent that they will become similar to the enemy, striving for this world instead of the hereafter.


Then Allaah will want to wake the ummah up again, and due to their sins - He will send them trials and an opposition. The enemy knows that the believers are united, but due to the believers love for this world - they will argue amongst each other. The enemy realises that the believers are at their weakest [due to love for this world] - so the enemy will fight.

The believers will fight back, while others will stay behind. The enemy is sincere, and many muslims may just fight for their pride and love for this life. Then Allaah will allow the enemy to overcome the believers, because their sins are similar, and they both strive for the same cause [this world.]


To the extent that the muslims will face hardship, and again - they will turn to Allaah in a state of weakness, depending on Allaah instead of this life and its delusion. And the cycle will begin again, right from the start.


That has been the exact same Sunnah which has occured within this Ummah, Allaah will trial us, the same way the people before us were trialled - that's because we have fallen into the exact same mistakes they fell into. And in the end, the victory is for the believers.

"Allah has promised to those of you who believe, and do good deeds, that He will surely grant them in the land inheritance of power as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion which He has chosen for them. And that He will change their state after fear to one of security and peace. They will worship Me alone and not associate aught with Me." (Qur'an Al-Noor (the Light) 24:55)

Allaah Almighty knows best, and He is the Wise, All Powerful.

[nocturne]

Assalamualaikum,

I think its ok, as long as the country doesnt restrict you from practising your religion, i have already mentioned in another thread that its easier to move away to an islamic state, but doesnt mean that there wouldnt be any temptations for sins there

[Dawud_uk]

Because Islam teaches that you must follow the laws of the land you are living.

If you love England then live under English laws.

If you love sharia, move to the Islamic countries of Saudia Arabia or Iran.

actually it doesnt quite teach that...

the covenant is that when we live in a non muslim land we agree to respect your right to life, property and freedom to live your life as you choose if you do the same for us.

in effect it is often the same but not always.

Abu Abdullah

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Islam is the concept of our life as a muslim.

why cant we have a sharia law, obeying the laws of Allah.

What the BIG deal?

Sadly our own actions help cause that. The majority of the world's Muslims choose to live in non-Islamic countries. Very few Muslims ever take any active political role to help peacefully achief Sharia laws where ever they live.

We can not expect any nation to agree to Sharia Law unless we are the majority or we can show non-Muslims that it would be to their benefit.

Perhaps the question should be "What have I done to show people the beauty of sharia law and that it would help us all?" We can not expect sharia law unless we live sharia law and show by example it is beneficial to all of mankind.

It is foolish for us to blame our inability to live as Muslims on the statement that the country is not under sharia. We are always responsible to live as Muslims and if the laws of a country make it difficult to live as Muslims we have no business being there. That is like a man saying "I can not keep from drinking because I work as a bartender." Instead of condeming the bar the man should not have that job.

[England]

From what I've heard, the Sharia Law is beneficial for muslims not non-muslims. If that's the case then non-muslims will never accept it in their country.

[00:00]

Non Muslim have lived under the sharah law before, so why couldnt they if we had one today.

From what I've heard, the Sharia Law is beneficial for muslims not non-muslims. If that's the case then non-muslims will never accept it in their country.

actually it is benfifcial to the non muslim too, they'll be under the protection of the muslims. And be given the same rights as the muslims. But you gotta be the jizya though.

It was the non muslims who went and asked for the muslim help in andalus,spain. Study history, you'll see that muslims and non muslims lived side by side in an islamic state. Only problem is you have these few devils who wanna cause disunity and divide, and thats what happened in spain, and that was the reason for the Muslim downfall in andalus.

[- Qatada -]

From what I've heard, the Sharia Law is beneficial for muslims not non-muslims. If that's the case then non-muslims will never accept it in their country.

:salamext:

Rights of Citizens in an Islamic State


Islam protects the rights belonging to the citizens of an Islamic state, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims.

• The first is the right to security of life and property. Islam prohibits killing except for that which is done in the due process of law at the hands of a God-fearing court. No government has the right to murder its citizens, openly or secretly, because they oppose its unjust policies and actions or criticize it. Furthermore, Islam confers the right of security of ownership of property.

• Another right is that of the protection of honor. Under Islamic Law, if one is proved to have said things that could have damaged the reputation and honor of the plaintiff, the accused is declared guilty of defamation — regardless of whether or not the plaintiff is able to prove that he is respectable and honorable in the first place.

• Citizens of an Islamic state have the right to the sanctity and security of private life. Thus spying on others, reading their mail, tapping their phones, etc., is illegal. Espionage on the life of the individual cannot be justified on moral grounds. In fact, when a government does begin to spy on its own people, the common citizens cannot speak freely even in their own homes, and society begins to suffer from a state of general distrust and suspicion — which in turn leads to more dissatisfaction and eventually unrest.

• No citizen can be imprisoned unless his guilt has been proven in an open court in which he has the opportunity to defend himself.

• Citizens have the God-given right to protest against the government’s tyranny, whether that abuse is directed against individuals, groups, or the entire population.

Citizens have absolute and complete equality in the eyes of the law regardless of their religion

• Islam grants the right of freedom of thought and expression on the condition that it should be used to propagate virtue and truth, not to spread evil and wickedness. Further, no one has the right to use abusive or offensive language in the name of criticism. In fact, the citizen not only has the right of freedom of expression in order to propagate virtue, but also the duty to propagate virtue and stop the spread of evil.

• Islam gives people the right to freedom of association and formation of parties or organizations, provided that this right is exercised to spread virtue and righteousness, not to spread evil and mischief.

• Citizens of an Islamic state have the right to freedom of conscience and conviction. Non-Muslim citizens cannot be forced to accept Islam, and no moral, social, or political pressure can be put on them to make them change their minds.

• Religious sentiments are to be protected. Discussion and debate on religious matters can be held, but these must be conducted in decency with no abusive language. This applies to followers of all faiths.

• An individual cannot be arrested or imprisoned for the offenses of others. Every person is responsible for his own acts.

• Citizens have the right to the basic necessities of life. It is the responsibility of the State to provide the basic necessities for the poor and needy, invalid, orphaned, elderly, unemployed, et cetera. Even a dead person with no guardian or heir has the right to a proper burial by the State.

• The citizens of an Islamic state have absolute and complete equality in the eyes of the law, regardless of their religion.

• In an Islamic state, the rulers are not above the law. All officials of the state, whether they are the head or ordinary employees, are equal in the eyes of the law. None can claim immunity. Even an ordinary citizen has the right to forward a claim or file a complaint against the highest executive in the country.

• Citizens have the right to avoid sin. No government, or administrator, or head of a department can order another person to do wrong. A person who is so ordered has the right to refuse to comply, and this would not be seen as an offense under Islamic Law.

• Islam grants the right to participate in the affairs of state. Thus every citizen has the right to have a direct say in the affairs of the state or a representative chosen by him and others.