Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus

[islamirama]

Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus ?
(Peace Be Upon Them Both)



Did Jesus and Muhammad Teach the Same Thing? Yes and no. It is true that both Jesus and Muhammad, as well as all true prophets from Adam, Noah, etc. (peace be upon them all), carried essentially the same message: Islam, that is, monotheism and submission to the will and guidance of God. However, the details were not identical, but varied to cope with the time and nation addressed.

While Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent specifically to the Israelites, Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent to all humanity. This was emphasized by Jesus as well: "But he answered and said, 'I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'" (Matthew 15:24)

In contrast, the Qur'an declares the universal message of Islam. The Qur'an says what means:
*{Say: "O people! surely I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, of Him Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; there is no god but He; He brings to life and causes to die; therefore believe in Allah and His Messenger, the illiterate Prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him so that you may walk in the right way." }* (Al-A`raf 7:158)
*{And you do not ask them for a reward for this; it is nothing but a reminder for all mankind.}* (Yusuf 12:104)
*{And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.}* (Al-Anbiyaa' 21:107)
*{Blessed is He Who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures }* (Al-Furqan 25:1)
*{And We have not sent you but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most men do not know.}* (Saba' 34:28)
*{It is nothing but a reminder to the nations.}* (Saad 38:87)
*{And it is naught but a reminder to the nations.}* (Al-Qalam 68:52)
*{It is naught but a reminder for the nations.}* (At-Takwir 81:27)
Also, while the original message of Jesus was distorted and deviated away from monotheism, the message of the final Prophet Muhammad was to stay valid and preserved to the end of time.

While Jesus's emphasis was on moral salvation and reform of the individual, with only a few rulings on marriage and divorce, etc., the final message of Islam brought a detailed comprehensive code dealing with all aspects of human life: personal, family, social, economic, political, and international. Jesus stressed purifying the soul; Muhammad was to build and maintain the model: individual, society, and nation.

Why Should Muhammad Come Six Centuries after Jesus?

Jesus, a human monotheist prophet, repeatedly called to Allah the One God and warned those who ascribed partners to Him: "Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and Him Only.'" (Matthew 4:10)
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.'" (Mark 12:29)

Jesus emphasized his own humanity: "As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." (John 8:40)
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear." (John 5:30)

Jesus never claimed to be God, or part of a God. He never mentioned Trinity, nor did he appoint a church to entrust itself with reshaping the faith and re-inventing the law. The deviation started with Paul and some others—leaders, clergy, and philosophers—centuries after Jesus's departure. Christianity as we know it today was re-formulated with its concepts of:
- Trinity, centered around the prophet Jesus who was thenceforth called God, begotten son of God
- The sacrosanct Church of Christ, talking and enacting laws in the name of God
- The story of crucifixion and resurrection from the dead
- Original sin and atonement Read for example, according to Paul (NIV):
"At once he [Paul]began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God." (Acts 9:20)
"Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel…" (2 Timothy 2:8)
"Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." (Galatians 5:2)
"What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?" (Romans 3:1)

Most of these distortions were borrowed or coined from earlier pagan creeds. Close similarities can be found between this Pauline Christianity and Mithraism, Buddhism, and ancient Egyptian polytheist creeds.

During the seventh century CE when Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent, there were only a few groups of followers of the original message and teachings of Jesus. The Injeel revealed to Jesus no longer existed in any form, as was the case of the Tawrah of Moses before him. They were replaced with the Old and New Testaments written by different human authors selected and sanctioned as holy by the Church ecumenical councils, several centuries after the departure of Jesus.

It was high time then to re-establish the eternal guidance of the Creator to all humanity, but this time in a final eternal form, through the Glorious Qur'an and the detailed teachings and living model of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Jesus prophesized the coming prophet whose universal message will stay forever:
"He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." (John 1:27)
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— " (John 14:16 )

Plenty of other definitive descriptions that fit only Prophet Muhammad can be cited from both the Old and New Testaments. Please see suggested links at the bottom of this answer.

True versus False Prophets

Here are some criteria for a true prophet:

1. He should bring signs or proofs that are far beyond human capacity.
2. His message should be shown to emanate from without himself.
3. He should carry his mission to the end in spite of all obstacles.
4. His message would be supported by God to victory over his enemies.

1. Applying these criteria to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), we find that the main proof he presented is a living miracle, the eternal word of God: the Qur'an. The Arabic text of the Qur'an challenges all generations to produce anything as perfect or splendorous. Even the Prophet's own sayings (Hadith) are very different from the Qur'an. Also, the scientific precision of Qur'anic references to natural phenomena, as well as the wisdom of its decrees, are far beyond the human knowledge and culture at the time of revelation and for several centuries to follow. Please see suggested links at the bottom of this answer.

2. The message and text of the Qur'an did not emanate from within, but from outside, the Prophet Muhammad. This can be proved by the way he was addressed in that extraordinary Book.

The Qur'an repeatedly reminded and drew the attention of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to his obligations towards Allah, the revelation, the believers, and the unbelievers. Please read the Qur'an 75:16-18, 20:114, 87:6-7, 10:109 and 10:15-16.

He was also repeatedly exhorted and warned against yielding to the temptations and pressures that were surrounding him. Please read the Qur'an: 17:73-75, 13:37-38, 5:49, 2:145, 2:120, 5:67, 6:14, 6:114, 11:112, 15:88, 68:48 and 72: 21-22.

In addition, the Qur'an included admonitions that were directed to the noble Prophet (peace be upon him) in some situations. Please read the Qur'an: 4:105-109, 9:43, 9:117, 9:113, 6:52, 8:67-68, 66:1 and 80:1-11. Sometimes the Qur'an revealed matters that he would have preferred to keep secret in the depths of his pure soul. Please read the Qur'an: 33:37.

It is difficult for a sound mind to imagine that the noble Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would address himself with the aim of guidance, exhortation, warning, and admonishment, or would reveal things about himself that he would not like other people to know about. Also, it is difficult to believe that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would, after doing that, convey to the people the Qur'an, which would never be abrogated, deleted, or forgotten.

Occasionally, the revelation was delayed for weeks or months, despite the urgent need of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to refute the hypocrites and the slanderers. Examples for this are the Qur'anic verses 24:11-17 and 93:1-3.

The Prophet even used his own discretion in interpreting some verses, until revelation was sent down contradicting his opinion. An example of this is verses 9:80-84.

3. The Prophet delivered the revealed message and fought for it, against all odds. His whole twenty-three years of prophethood were years of hardships. The first thirteen years he and his followers were persecuted, tortured, and boycotted by the pagans of Makkah. He refused all offers of kingdom, wealth, or reconciling his message with their pagan beliefs. The following ten years, after immigration to Madinah, witnessed a harsh continuous struggle to spread the faith, with incessant fighting against the hostilities of Arab tribes and Madinah Jews, as well as the preludes to confrontation with the great Roman and Persian Empires. His personal life was the simplest and most ascetic of his contemporaries.

4. Allah supported him and his few early followers with unexpected victories in spite of their poverty, physical weakness, and military and technical inexperience. His message was supported and spread to every corner of the world in a brief time. No human being could have such a biography unless he is a true messenger of God, and truly he was. Allah rewards him for what he honestly delivered and for his striving for the salvation of all nations and generations.

Who Are False Prophets?

Coming now to false prophets, Jesus said, according to the Bible (NIV):
"They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." (Matthew 15:9)
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matthew 24:24)
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible." (Mark 13:22)

There are two categories of false prophets:
- Claimers following their own fancies and whims, seeking worldly gains of prestige, authority, or wealth
- Prominent personalities, over-magnified by their followers, who raise them to the status of prophets or semi-gods


Of the first category are those who invented or changed a creed without authority or supporting evidence from God. Examples are Paul and others, then followed by the Church, which reformulated Christianity against what Jesus stood for. Similarly in Islamic history, several claimants sought to ruin Islam from within, forming deviant sects like Qadianis, Baha'is and extreme Shiite sects such as the Ismailis.

The second category includes several philosophers, scientists, clergy, and leaders, etc., who were considered almost inviolable prophets to be believed and followed unquestionably. Examples are Greek philosophers, Marx, Lenin, Darwin, Saints, Roman emperors and their modern counterparts of the so-called New World Order.

[Balthasar21]

Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus ?
(Peace Be Upon Them Both)



Did Jesus and Muhammad Teach the Same Thing? Yes and no. It is true that both Jesus and Muhammad, as well as all true prophets from Adam, Noah, etc. (peace be upon them all), carried essentially the same message: Islam, that is, monotheism and submission to the will and guidance of God. However, the details were not identical, but varied to cope with the time and nation addressed.

While Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent specifically to the Israelites, Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent to all humanity. This was emphasized by Jesus as well: "But he answered and said, 'I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'" (Matthew 15:24)

In contrast, the Qur'an declares the universal message of Islam. The Qur'an says what means:
*{Say: "O people! surely I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, of Him Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; there is no god but He; He brings to life and causes to die; therefore believe in Allah and His Messenger, the illiterate Prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him so that you may walk in the right way." }* (Al-A`raf 7:158)
*{And you do not ask them for a reward for this; it is nothing but a reminder for all mankind.}* (Yusuf 12:104)
*{And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.}* (Al-Anbiyaa' 21:107)
*{Blessed is He Who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures }* (Al-Furqan 25:1)
*{And We have not sent you but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most men do not know.}* (Saba' 34:28)
*{It is nothing but a reminder to the nations.}* (Saad 38:87)
*{And it is naught but a reminder to the nations.}* (Al-Qalam 68:52)
*{It is naught but a reminder for the nations.}* (At-Takwir 81:27)
Also, while the original message of Jesus was distorted and deviated away from monotheism, the message of the final Prophet Muhammad was to stay valid and preserved to the end of time.

While Jesus's emphasis was on moral salvation and reform of the individual, with only a few rulings on marriage and divorce, etc., the final message of Islam brought a detailed comprehensive code dealing with all aspects of human life: personal, family, social, economic, political, and international. Jesus stressed purifying the soul; Muhammad was to build and maintain the model: individual, society, and nation.

Why Should Muhammad Come Six Centuries after Jesus?

Jesus, a human monotheist prophet, repeatedly called to Allah the One God and warned those who ascribed partners to Him: "Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and Him Only.'" (Matthew 4:10)
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.'" (Mark 12:29)

Jesus emphasized his own humanity: "As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." (John 8:40)
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear." (John 5:30)

Jesus never claimed to be God, or part of a God. He never mentioned Trinity, nor did he appoint a church to entrust itself with reshaping the faith and re-inventing the law. The deviation started with Paul and some others—leaders, clergy, and philosophers—centuries after Jesus's departure. Christianity as we know it today was re-formulated with its concepts of:
- Trinity, centered around the prophet Jesus who was thenceforth called God, begotten son of God
- The sacrosanct Church of Christ, talking and enacting laws in the name of God
- The story of crucifixion and resurrection from the dead
- Original sin and atonement Read for example, according to Paul (NIV):
"At once he [Paul]began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God." (Acts 9:20)
"Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel…" (2 Timothy 2:8)
"Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." (Galatians 5:2)
"What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?" (Romans 3:1)

Most of these distortions were borrowed or coined from earlier pagan creeds. Close similarities can be found between this Pauline Christianity and Mithraism, Buddhism, and ancient Egyptian polytheist creeds.

During the seventh century CE when Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent, there were only a few groups of followers of the original message and teachings of Jesus. The Injeel revealed to Jesus no longer existed in any form, as was the case of the Tawrah of Moses before him. They were replaced with the Old and New Testaments written by different human authors selected and sanctioned as holy by the Church ecumenical councils, several centuries after the departure of Jesus.

It was high time then to re-establish the eternal guidance of the Creator to all humanity, but this time in a final eternal form, through the Glorious Qur'an and the detailed teachings and living model of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Jesus prophesized the coming prophet whose universal message will stay forever:
"He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." (John 1:27)
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— " (John 14:16 )

Plenty of other definitive descriptions that fit only Prophet Muhammad can be cited from both the Old and New Testaments. Please see suggested links at the bottom of this answer.

True versus False Prophets

Here are some criteria for a true prophet:

1. He should bring signs or proofs that are far beyond human capacity.
2. His message should be shown to emanate from without himself.
3. He should carry his mission to the end in spite of all obstacles.
4. His message would be supported by God to victory over his enemies.

1. Applying these criteria to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), we find that the main proof he presented is a living miracle, the eternal word of God: the Qur'an. The Arabic text of the Qur'an challenges all generations to produce anything as perfect or splendorous. Even the Prophet's own sayings (Hadith) are very different from the Qur'an. Also, the scientific precision of Qur'anic references to natural phenomena, as well as the wisdom of its decrees, are far beyond the human knowledge and culture at the time of revelation and for several centuries to follow. Please see suggested links at the bottom of this answer.

2. The message and text of the Qur'an did not emanate from within, but from outside, the Prophet Muhammad. This can be proved by the way he was addressed in that extraordinary Book.

The Qur'an repeatedly reminded and drew the attention of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to his obligations towards Allah, the revelation, the believers, and the unbelievers. Please read the Qur'an 75:16-18, 20:114, 87:6-7, 10:109 and 10:15-16.

He was also repeatedly exhorted and warned against yielding to the temptations and pressures that were surrounding him. Please read the Qur'an: 17:73-75, 13:37-38, 5:49, 2:145, 2:120, 5:67, 6:14, 6:114, 11:112, 15:88, 68:48 and 72: 21-22.

In addition, the Qur'an included admonitions that were directed to the noble Prophet (peace be upon him) in some situations. Please read the Qur'an: 4:105-109, 9:43, 9:117, 9:113, 6:52, 8:67-68, 66:1 and 80:1-11. Sometimes the Qur'an revealed matters that he would have preferred to keep secret in the depths of his pure soul. Please read the Qur'an: 33:37.

It is difficult for a sound mind to imagine that the noble Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would address himself with the aim of guidance, exhortation, warning, and admonishment, or would reveal things about himself that he would not like other people to know about. Also, it is difficult to believe that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would, after doing that, convey to the people the Qur'an, which would never be abrogated, deleted, or forgotten.

Occasionally, the revelation was delayed for weeks or months, despite the urgent need of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to refute the hypocrites and the slanderers. Examples for this are the Qur'anic verses 24:11-17 and 93:1-3.

The Prophet even used his own discretion in interpreting some verses, until revelation was sent down contradicting his opinion. An example of this is verses 9:80-84.

3. The Prophet delivered the revealed message and fought for it, against all odds. His whole twenty-three years of prophethood were years of hardships. The first thirteen years he and his followers were persecuted, tortured, and boycotted by the pagans of Makkah. He refused all offers of kingdom, wealth, or reconciling his message with their pagan beliefs. The following ten years, after immigration to Madinah, witnessed a harsh continuous struggle to spread the faith, with incessant fighting against the hostilities of Arab tribes and Madinah Jews, as well as the preludes to confrontation with the great Roman and Persian Empires. His personal life was the simplest and most ascetic of his contemporaries.

4. Allah supported him and his few early followers with unexpected victories in spite of their poverty, physical weakness, and military and technical inexperience. His message was supported and spread to every corner of the world in a brief time. No human being could have such a biography unless he is a true messenger of God, and truly he was. Allah rewards him for what he honestly delivered and for his striving for the salvation of all nations and generations.

Who Are False Prophets?

Coming now to false prophets, Jesus said, according to the Bible (NIV):
"They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men." (Matthew 15:9)
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." (Matthew 24:24)
"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible." (Mark 13:22)

There are two categories of false prophets:
- Claimers following their own fancies and whims, seeking worldly gains of prestige, authority, or wealth
- Prominent personalities, over-magnified by their followers, who raise them to the status of prophets or semi-gods


Of the first category are those who invented or changed a creed without authority or supporting evidence from God. Examples are Paul and others, then followed by the Church, which reformulated Christianity against what Jesus stood for. Similarly in Islamic history, several claimants sought to ruin Islam from within, forming deviant sects like Qadianis, Baha'is and extreme Shiite sects such as the Ismailis.

The second category includes several philosophers, scientists, clergy, and leaders, etc., who were considered almost inviolable prophets to be believed and followed unquestionably. Examples are Greek philosophers, Marx, Lenin, Darwin, Saints, Roman emperors and their modern counterparts of the so-called New World Order.

islamirama < Ask > Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus ?

Answer ; Because the Roman Cathoic Wanted To Create A New Religion !

[vpb]

:sl:

Answer ; Because the Roman Cathoic Wanted To Create A New Religion !

INCORRECT :p lollll

they already created many :p

[Medina83]

He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. (John 1:27)

Excellent post Islamirama...however one misquote:

Jesus did not say the above line..it was John the Baptist speaking about Jesus....

However there is another verse which does substantiate that another Prophet was expected...

John 1:
Context is the Jews asking John the Baptist who he is...


21They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
.........
24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"



This obviously does not refer to Jesus...since the Jews were expecting the Christ also...but they were expecting another Prophet

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[Umar001]

islamirama < Ask > Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus ?

Answer ; Because the Roman Cathoic Wanted To Create A New Religion !

Does that imply that the Roman Catholics Created Islam?

[Trumble]

This obviously does not refer to Jesus...since the Jews were expecting the Christ also...but they were expecting another Prophet

I disagree. What is there there that eliminates 'the Christ' and 'the Prophet' being the same person?

[Medina83]

I disagree. What is there there that eliminates 'the Christ' and 'the Prophet' being the same person?

it is written as 'not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet'

do you mean to say they meant 'not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Christ' ?!?!

it is plainly obvious that there are three persons referenced...i had this on Christian forum and even they admitted the Prophet mentioned is obviously not the same as the Christ...

I think you are trying to argue with semantics :statisfie

[duskiness]

Does that imply that the Roman Catholics Created Islam?

seems so... :rollseyes i think you owe me ;)

[Balthasar21]

Does that imply that the Roman Catholics Created Islam?

Was one of Muhammad teacher A Catholic / Christian Yes or No ?

[- Qatada -]

Was one of Muhammad teacher A Catholic / Christian Yes or No ?

Can you explain what you mean by teacher in that context :? Can you also clarify whether Catholicism was within the Arabian peninsula back then?



Regards.

[Balthasar21]

Can you explain what you mean by teacher in that context :? Can you also clarify whether Catholicism was within the Arabian peninsula back then?



Regards.

Main Entry: teach·er
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'te-ch&r
1 : one that teaches ; especially : one whose occupation is to instruct
2 : a Mormon ranking above a deacon in the Aaronic priesthood


So again I ask was Muhammad Teacher A Cathoic / Christian .
The question has nothing to do with Islam-ism , So please let not flip the script ok

[Umar001]

Nope I cannot recall anyone 'whose occupation was to instruct' Muhammad, neither Catholic nor Christian nor Jew nor Pagan.

I am of course talking within the realms of religion, because I dont know if anyone taught Muhammad as a child, arabic or business :)

Regards.

[Balthasar21]

Nope I cannot recall anyone 'whose occupation was to instruct' Muhammad, neither Catholic nor Christian nor Jew nor Pagan.

I am of course talking within the realms of religion, because I dont know if anyone taught Muhammad as a child, arabic or business :)

Regards.

Are you Sunni ?????

[Umar001]

If by sunni it is meant a person who follows the Sunnah and Jama'ah then I am, I belive. Are you Sunni??

[Balthasar21]

If by sunni it is meant a person who follows the Sunnah and Jama'ah then I am, I belive. Are you Sunni??

Is that a Yes or No .

[north_malaysian]

Can you explain what you mean by teacher in that context :? Can you also clarify whether Catholicism was within the Arabian peninsula back then?



Regards.

There are more Jews than Christians in Arabian Peninsula back then. And the Christians most probably belongs to Nestorian Church.

[Muslim Knight]

So again I ask was Muhammad Teacher A Cathoic / Christian .
The question has nothing to do with Islam-ism , So please let not flip the script ok

If the Prophet had a Catholic or Christian Teacher, I wonder why this wasn't recorded in history of any source. Furthermore, it is a great mystery that this Teacher figure hasn't come forward to put forth his claim as 'The Teacher'.

Much like the fact that the Quran says that every life form on earth has been brought forth from water. Maybe there was a scientist back then who had constructed a microscope and studied this. Then he recorded his findings for Muhammad to reveal in the Quran and then destroyed his microscope so that no one could find it?

[ranma1/2]

islamirama < Ask > Why Did Muhammad Come After Jesus ?

Answer ; Because the Roman Cathoic Wanted To Create A New Religion !

evidence?

More importantly. If the muslim god is "the" god. why did he takes so long to correct us? As well as why has he still done such a horrible job at it.

It seems to me that god should have released the quran in multiple languages as written by god so they would be perfect translatons. As well as new updated version every couple hundred years or so as the use of language changes.

[barney]

No, no, no.
Youve got that all wrong.
After multiple foul ups of getting your word accross, you need to send it to somebody who can neither read nor write and have it passed on by chinese-whisper recitation, in a language used at the time by a minute fraction of the worlds population, so that every word that gets translated seems to take another form. Three hundred years after It's been passed on like folklaw then get it written down, get some guy to choose which surahs to keep and which to throw.

Make sure that it's so contridictory that it needs to abrogate itself all over the place and so it takes a army of "scholors" hundreds of years to work out what it means , and even then, they still cant decide.

Now THAT'S the way to get a perfect message accross.

[ranma1/2]

If the Prophet had a Catholic or Christian Teacher, I wonder why this wasn't recorded in history of any source. Furthermore, it is a great mystery that this Teacher figure hasn't come forward to put forth his claim as 'The Teacher'.

Much like the fact that the Quran says that every life form on earth has been brought forth from water. Maybe there was a scientist back then who had constructed a microscope and studied this. Then he recorded his findings for Muhammad to reveal in the Quran and then destroyed his microscope so that no one could find it?

Well for one reason i imagine the teacher was dead before islam become prominant. Also I dont see why many people would care who taught him. Do you know who taught George Washington? Also the fact that many muslims like to claim that mohammad was uneducated gives there idea of divine inspiration a more special kick. As for so called "science" in the quran. Well we have discussed that many a timeand my opinon is there is nothign special period. At best something was known at the time, at worst lies, intentional ignorance.

[snakelegs]

do they believe he was uneducated? illiterate is not the same as uneducated.

[Muslim Knight]

Well for one reason i imagine the teacher was dead before islam become prominant. Also I dont see why many people would care who taught him. Do you know who taught George Washington?

George Washington didn't have 1.2 billion followers. Also, he didn't introduce a religion.

[lilah]

No, no, no.
Youve got that all wrong.
After multiple foul ups of getting your word accross, you need to send it to somebody who can neither read nor write and have it passed on by chinese-whisper recitation, in a language used at the time by a minute fraction of the worlds population, so that every word that gets translated seems to take another form. Three hundred years after It's been passed on like folklaw then get it written down, get some guy to choose which surahs to keep and which to throw.

Make sure that it's so contridictory that it needs to abrogate itself all over the place and so it takes a army of "scholors" hundreds of years to work out what it means , and even then, they still cant decide.

Now THAT'S the way to get a perfect message accross.

Is this your attempt to demonstrate your intelligence? Or are you trying to be funny? No, seriously. I mean no disrespect....

I'm just trying to understand your intentions....

[Medina83]

As well as why has he still done such a horrible job at it.

I feel obliged to tell you that if you struggle to believe in God at least give yourself enough respect as to not go around insulting God we believe in.

Honestly you do yourself no favours by making comments like that and I fear for the soul you dont believe you have.


With regard to why He 'corrected' us...
The question I have is why people came to the conclusion that each Prophet (peace be upon them all) came down with a different message, 'correcting' the one that went before? Each Prophet called people to live a God fearing life and to worship Him.

They certainly emphasised different aspects and they forbid somethings which had previously been allowed and they allowed some things which has previously been forbid....but isn't that God trying to make things easier for us?

How can an unborn child in the womb understand what life outside of the womb consists of?

Similarly it is hard or impossible for us to understand sometimes where the benefit or harm is in some things..that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that it is beyond our current understanding. To deny this means you believe that all knowledge is currently within mankind...but that in itself defies truth as men currently 'discover' more and more within the realms of science etc.

[ranma1/2]

George Washington didn't have 1.2 billion followers. Also, he didn't introduce a religion.

so? George washington is a much more recent historical figure.


John Smith introduced a religion as well and had quite a few followers. DO you know who his teacher was? Sidartha?

[ranma1/2]

[QUOTE=Medina83;764848]I feel obliged to tell you that if you struggle to believe in God at least give yourself enough respect as to not go around insulting God we believe in.


Im not insulting him unless he is insulted by facts.
The fact is he did a horrible job getting his message across.


Honestly you do yourself no favours by making comments like that and I fear for the soul you dont believe you have.

And I fear for you sauce. May it not spoil.

With regard to why He 'corrected' us...
The question I have is why people came to the conclusion that each Prophet (peace be upon them all) came down with a different message, 'correcting' the one that went before? Each Prophet called people to live a God fearing life and to worship Him.

Oh im not saying that, im saying that the message got corrupted. Apparntly god could do nothing about that despite being all powerfull.


They certainly emphasised different aspects and they forbid somethings which had previously been allowed and they allowed some things which has previously been forbid....but isn't that God trying to make things easier for us?

Sounds like god didnt get it right the 1st time.

How can an unborn child in the womb understand what life outside of the womb consists of?

huh?

Similarly it is hard or impossible for us to understand sometimes where the benefit or harm is in some things..that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that it is beyond our current understanding. To deny this means you believe that all knowledge is currently within mankind...but that in itself defies truth as men currently 'discover' more and more within the realms of science etc.

Oh im not saying we cant learn. I do think that we can reseason what is bad. I do not see any answer in the quran or other holy texts that werent man made.

[Medina83]

The fact is he did a horrible job getting his message across

thats not a fact thats your opinion. If you cant distinguish between fact and opinion my advice is stay off forums.

And I fear for you sauce. May it not spoil

sorry to seem so trite with you..it wasnt meant in the spirit of high-handedness. More like with the pity I have when i see a news report of someone who got hurt badly..that common sympathy we have for each other in humanity...sorry it it offends you.

Oh im not saying that, im saying that the message got corrupted. Apparntly god could do nothing about that despite being all powerfull.

couldn't or didnt?
God lets our free will run its course, men make their own beds and then have to lie in them. why would God let them become corrupted? Only God knows the true answer, i'm just guessing...i'm just amazed that people think there is no God because of all the variation in belief around the world..as if it should be written in the clouds as a proof to all mankind. Well if that happened it would remove our need for free will and there'd be no reward for faith.

[Muslim Knight]

so? George washington is a much more recent historical figure.

But he isn't disputed here. We're talking about a Prophet who changed the course of history for the next 1,400 years. His entire life is put under the microscope here and historians scrutinize the many biographies detailing his life. They can even trace his family roots back to Kedar and Ismail and yet sceptics who allege that Muhammad had been taught by a Catholic / Christian (they can't even decide which is which) Teacher, couldn't find evidence of this supposedly "dead" mysterious Teacher!

Did George Washington change the course of history for the last 1,400 years? America is only over 200 years old and I see people talking about Bush, Bush and some more Bush and not George Washington.

John Smith introduced a religion as well and had quite a few followers. DO you know who his teacher was? Sidartha?

John Smith in Disney's Pocahontas introduced a religion? Seriously???

[barney]

Nope, its Jospeh Smith, Final..really really really final (honest), prophet of the Mormons. Bringing Gods totally utterly last message.

As regards my intentions with my last post, I'm pointing out that a deity putting accross "Clear arguements" has , if the bible & Quran are from him, managed to confuse everyone. Muslims can't agree amongst themselves what the surahs mean. Is that their fault?

[- Qatada -]

As regards my intentions with my last post, I'm pointing out that a deity putting accross "Clear arguements" has , if the bible & Quran are from him, managed to confuse everyone. Muslims can't agree amongst themselves what the surahs mean. Is that their fault?

You really think so? How come any thread which you've started about Qur'an we've answered it for you with clear proofs?


Regarding the first issue, the Gospel was for a group of people who Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) was sent to, since Allaah sends messengers to mankind. So what's so confusing about that?

[barney]

You really think so? How come any thread which you've started about Qur'an we've answered it for you with clear proofs?


Regarding the first issue, the Gospel was for a group of people who Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) was sent to, since Allaah sends messengers to mankind. So what's so confusing about that?

Well actually in several hundred posts, I've had one thing answered. That was that the muslims who die in allahs good books wont all go to hell first, They'll go over it on a bridge. There was something else, "period of time that the world was made", that was answered.

Evrything else, you may feel was "Clearly Proved" , but thats because you beleive it!
Theres been absolutly nothing actually Really proved. I'm still looking hard though.

[- Qatada -]

Well actually in several hundred posts, I've had one thing answered. That was that the muslims who die in allahs good books wont all go to hell first, They'll go over it on a bridge. There was something else, "period of time that the world was made", that was answered.

Evrything else, you may feel was "Clearly Proved" , but thats because you beleive it!
Theres been absolutly nothing actually Really proved. I'm still looking hard though.

Let's see what you said in the previous post which i just replied to:

Muslims can't agree amongst themselves what the surahs mean. Is that their fault?

It's nothing about whether you find the proof acceptable, its about whether we agree on the meaning of the Surah as muslims.

[barney]

Let's see what you said in the previous post which i just replied to:





[/B]It's nothing about whether you find the proof acceptable, its about whether we agree on the meaning of the Surah as muslims.

Well, here on the board words are slung around with everyone disagreeing. Pretty much any thread has arguing over interpretations.

And out in the world, Muslims are killing muslims through sect driven violence.
Islamic scholors from one university will swear blind that the Surahs instruct killing, fighting and plundering.
Other Scholors will swear that they dont.
It's not clear at all.

[- Qatada -]

Well, here on the board words are slung around with everyone disagreeing. Pretty much any thread has arguing over interpretations.

Didn't i explain to you we have tafsirs/explanations of Qur'an preserved for us? Infact, remember the time when i explained to you the explanation of why Surah Duha was revealed?

If you don't know, i'll give you the link again:

http://tafsir.com

And out in the world, Muslims are killing muslims through sect driven violence.
Islamic scholors from one university will swear blind that the Surahs instruct killing, fighting and plundering.
Other Scholors will swear that they dont.
It's not clear at all.

No, the difference is that the Prophecy of there being 73 sects has been proven, which is authentically recorded in Abi Dawud. So these different sects have different ideologies, different aims and different purposes. Yet in the hadith of there being 73 sects, the answer is also given to us - that we should follow the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the understanding and teachings of God's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), and the understanding of his companions - since they had the best understanding because they were alive while the Qur'an was being revealed.

The praise is for Allaah/God also that their understanding has been authentically preserved for us, and it is accessible by even the layman. I gave you the link above, and it's upto you if you want to check it. However - if anyone wants to truelly get the true explanation, we don't need to worry, since we have the true teachings authentically preserved for us. It's upto man if he/she wants to follow them or not. There is no argument on whether it is authentic, the difference is in man's own choice.




Regards.

[lilah]

Nope, its Jospeh Smith, Final..really really really final (honest), prophet of the Mormons. Bringing Gods totally utterly last message.

As regards my intentions with my last post, I'm pointing out that a deity putting accross "Clear arguements" has , if the bible & Quran are from him, managed to confuse everyone. Muslims can't agree amongst themselves what the surahs mean. Is that their fault?

You didn't point anything but your total ignorance of the subject. You're posting based on your opinion and feelings.


What you describe occurs in everyday life, not just religon. Many Americans in government can't agree on interpretations of the U.S Consitution, I take it from your logic that it's the founding fathers and the Constitution that is to blame.

I don't know about you, but in order for me to graduate college, I had to learn the material the professors taught me. I had to clear the confusion by asking questions, i had to take the innitiative to learn. In a typical classroom, there are going to be

• a few students that get the material right away
• a lot of students that won't...will have to spend time after class with the teacher to understand the material,
• a few that learn the material wrong, but don't realized they did until tested,
• some that just throw there hands up in the air and give up...determined that they will never get it,
• a few clowns in the back of the classroom making fun of the teacher, bully the good students, and blow off the whole class.

If somebody flunks a physics exam, that doesn't mean that the laws of physics are flawed....but that student's understanding of it. People get confused all the time, but it's not enought to just shrug your shoulders and blame the system. Yes, there may be a few muslims that learned the material wrong, I'll give you that. And some of those muslims might be scholars teaching wrong material....but that is the fault of the individual not the subject matter.

Just because *you* are confused by the material, doesn't mean the entire Muslim Ummah is. Maybe you're confused, but I'm not. Maybe if you asked more constructive questions with the intention of understanding, your confusion would be cleared up.

What I don't get, is that you've claimed that you believe in adeity, a God. And yet, based on your statements, you know nothing about Him, and base your sarcasm on your ignorance of Him. Tell me, where is the proofs and clear evidences of your beliefs?

[barney]

Tell me, where is the proofs and clear evidences of your beliefs?

Right back at ya.

Regards.