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Muslim Knight
06-16-2007, 11:54 AM
EDIT


The last time I post something like this. I'm ashamed that instead of discussing & refuting points you don't agree, you guys just make this look like national heresy.
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glo
06-16-2007, 12:51 PM
That's a great post, Muslim Knight!

I would go even further and say that people from all backgrounds and faiths should stand together and voice their protest with regards to these matters!
Governments and political and religious leader are going to pay more attention and act quicker, the more people and the more voices they are faced with.

If we as believers focused our energies on making the world a better place - rather than arguing about who is basing which opinion on which holy book - we could achieve much.
God is telling us quite clearly about how we should treat those around us, and how to respond to human suffering and need.

Why argue about out holy books? He has written his laws on our hearts!
("This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." -Hebrews 10:16)

What I am trying to say is that sometimes we all discuss and ponder too much, but act too little ...

Thank you for your thought-provoking post, brother. :)

Peace
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NoName55
06-16-2007, 11:17 PM
for a minute I got confused and thought the article was written by some anti-Muslim Nazi, then I saw the author name... Phew

its an other matter that its almost an exact replica of one from the site that I can't post link to, for posting of anti-Islam sites links is against forum rules
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Philosopher
06-16-2007, 11:46 PM
Fantastic article!
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Eric H
06-17-2007, 07:11 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Knight and thank you for a very good thread, in many ways these values have a greater meaning when we apply them to people who are different to ourselves.

Helping the poor has a greater meaning when we strive to help a whole community of mixed culture and faiths. I support the philosophy of Christian Aid as a charity that helps people of all faiths mainly in the third world. They also work in conjunction with charities of other faith groups for the good of the whole community.

Christian Aid say that people do not have to become Christian to receive aid and I believe this is the right approach. I know that some Christian charities give aid on the condition that people should convert and I believe this is not the right way.

In the spirit of striving for greater interfaith friendships.

Eric
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.:Umniyah:.
06-17-2007, 07:34 AM
5. Death Fatwas by Religious Authorities. When religious authorities declare death sentences against anyone, Muslims should protest because the Quran only permits the taking of life in case of actual fighting or as a retaliation for murder yet they are silent on the matter.
This is Untrue. You also appoint death to the one who commits adultery, and the one who is a magician and the one who apostates from Islam (after been giving advice and the chance to repent and turn back to their religion), and the one who doesnt pray ( after been giving advice and the chance to repent and turn back to their religion). And then like it says the one who murders. but even with murder you can take blood money and spare his life.

So i dont know where that comes from about only in war and retaliation of murder.

ps. to anyone who doesnt agree with these points that fine, im NOT debating, or posting this to debate, hence leaving NO reason for anyone to reply to this. Im merely correcting the article. Islam isnt about what people think, its about what is Truth and what Allah has ruled. So its for correction purpose, NOT for ' 2 pages of who thinks what'.

:peace:
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NoName55
06-17-2007, 07:48 AM
you are not alone sister, I know exactly where this came from and who the original author was (before the approval seekers took it and adopted as their own).

I rated it as terrible as well as pressing the red button, perhaps if a few of us use red button admin will take note and reply to it or delete it or let me loose on it.
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.:Umniyah:.
06-17-2007, 08:10 AM
Red button it is. And Don't mind it bro if the admin dont pay note to it. You did your part by reporting and trying to stop what you thought was incorrect after that just forget about it. Because all debating does is make you anger and then you start to say and do things you shouldnt, and its just not needed stress. You could use that energy to read something entirely more benefical than what people 'think' they know.

May Allah have mercy on you and me both Ameen.


Originally Posted by NoName55
you are not alone sister, I know exactly where this came from and who the original author was (before the approval seekers took it and adopted as their own).

I rated it as terrible as well as pressing the red button, perhaps if a few of us use red button admin will take note and reply to it or delete it or let me loose on it.
Reply

Eric H
06-17-2007, 09:23 AM
greetings and peace be with you Umniyah:.;
This is Untrue. You also appoint death to the one who commits adultery,
Jesus makes it extremely hard to stone an adulterer to death’ he said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

And one by one the accusers walked away starting with the scholars first.

In the spirit of examining our own conscience first.

Eric
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Muslim Knight
06-17-2007, 10:09 AM
Yeah no. 5 maybe sucked outright, but it can interpreted that death sentence can only be carried out by legitimate Islamic state. Even if a close one apostisize we aren't allowed to take matters into our own hands. If religious authority = legitimate Islamic state then it's fine.
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Malaikah
06-17-2007, 12:13 PM
:sl:

I'm curious to see what the original article was!
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.:Umniyah:.
06-17-2007, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
greetings and peace be with you Umniyah:.;


Jesus makes it extremely hard to stone an adulterer to death’ he said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

And one by one the accusers walked away starting with the scholars first.

In the spirit of examining our own conscience first.

Eric
Which would be one of the many things to explain why im not christian. And seeing how i dont believe Jesus even said that would be another.:)
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Bittersteel
06-17-2007, 12:30 PM
and the one who doesnt pray ( after been giving advice and the chance to repent and turn back to their religion).
says where,the Quran?
a specific verse please.
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Eric H
06-17-2007, 06:01 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Muslim Knight,

I am sad that you chose to edit your opening post; I thought it was very good and noble. Don’t you wish to stand for any of those qualities that you originally posted; I believe you had some very encouraging feedback.

In the spirit of striving for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric
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czgibson
06-18-2007, 12:14 PM
Greetings,

It's a shame you've felt it necessary to remove the article. I just googled it and it looks very sensible to me!

Peace
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S_87
06-18-2007, 12:25 PM
:sl:

actually i agree with most points just not points 5 and 7. dont know where point 6 is. sometimes ive felt that muslim countries are so striving to follow the west but in what ways? they are leaving out the main important ways like anti racism etc which is infact from Islam.

who was the article written by?
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skhalid
06-18-2007, 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
EDIT


The last time I post something like this. I'm ashamed that instead of discussing & refuting points you don't agree, you guys just make this look like national heresy.
sorry.........lol i don't know whta you on about 4give me and make dua for me......
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
:sl:
I agree completely.

Muslim Knight, thanks for posting initially...you seriously shouldn't have felt the need to edit!
yah. especially when it was being approved by so many "friends of ISlam".

Then fundamentalists like me come in and spoil the approval rating for this Godforsaken site, whose ultimate aim seems to be to please the mushrikeen(with the exception of some of the staff).

any distortion half truth and lie is okay as long as it pleases the forerunners of al-Dajjal
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

actually i agree with most points just not points 5 and 7. dont know where point 6 is. sometimes ive felt that muslim countries are so striving to follow the west but in what ways? they are leaving out the main important ways like anti racism etc which is infact from Islam.

who was the article written by?
:w:
How does something get polluted?

is it alright to accept something that has lies and truth mixed together? then may aswell accept the new testament and o.t as okay too, for those are only partially based on lies and distortion
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Keltoi
06-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Too bad the article is gone, I have no idea what this discussion is about.

* now I do

Seems very sensible to me. I'm sort of perplexed why some are so outraged by it.
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czgibson
06-18-2007, 02:18 PM
Greetings,

Here's a link to the article, so we know what we're talking about:

http://jidal.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/protest/

Perhaps those who object to it would like to explain their views.

Peace
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doorster
06-18-2007, 02:25 PM
if the new admin was not busy being a buisnessman, he would read up on Farouk A. Peru and Lina joy a friend of Farouk A. Peru
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Muslim Knight
06-18-2007, 02:26 PM
Well, I guess, no harm in discussing about it. After all, while Islam is perfect, Muslims are not. I think this article is good because it is a wake up call for the Ummah. Though I don't agree completely with the author on certain issues, I've read his defense of Islam on Malaysia Today website against ignorant bigots who seek to solely blame Islam and Muslims for world problems. His arguments were done in intellectual manner despite incessant name-calling and insults thrown at his directions by detractors of Islam. His actions were commendable.


What Muslims should protest against … but don’t


By Farouk Peru



It is now a familiar sight in the media seeing Muslims riot in the world for one thing or another. It is undeniable that Muslims can get emotional, although the proportion of Muslims who do take to the streets are minuscule compared to the number of Muslims there actually are, the focus of the media makes it look as if the whole of the Muslim world are semi-professional rioters, ready to march, shout, burn effigies and embassies at the drop of the hat.


I believe that there are issues which should emote the Muslims, because they are people who believe in the Quran and the Quran denounces certain things most strongly. Funnily enough, these issues do not include things like drawing the Prophet’s pictures in an insulting manner. In the Quran, for anyone who insults or mocks the Prophet or Muslims the right response is to simply ignore them, walk past them, give them greetings of peace or to tell them that the Muslims would continue working for a better world.
Here are some issues which should find Muslims take to the streets to peacefully protest (as well as to strive against)…but don’t :


1. Poverty. Poverty is such a problem in the world that 3 billion people subsist on the less than 2USD daily! The Quran actually equates a person’s generosity to the orphans and the poor to his truthfulness to Islam and so it’s a vital thing for Muslims to be against poverty in any shape or form. Yet we do not see Muslims protesting against this sorry state in the world.


2. Honour Killings - a problem in Pakistan and Bangladesh, two countries with an almost 100% Muslim populace. Yet we do not see Muslims take the streets protesting strongly against this blatant disregard for Allah’s command. Muslims are told in the Quran that if they saved a life, it would as if saving a life of the entire human race.


3. Child labour - a problem again all over the world world. Children are being trafficked by nefarious individuals, forcing them to move across borders to work. Muslims are told in the Quran that children are a gift from God and so must feel strongly about the exploitation of children but once again, we do not see Muslims protesting.


4. Suppression of Cultures - in the UK, political correctness has pushed native English culture into the underground, even saying that the public display of the St Georges Flag to be offensive to the ethnic minorities. The Quran posits recognition of all lineages and cultures and so, Muslims should protest against the suppression of any one culture.


5. Death Fatwas by Religious Authorities. When religious authorities declare death sentences against anyone, Muslims should protest because the Quran only permits the taking of life in case of actual fighting or as a retaliation for murder yet they are silent on the matter.


7. Terrorism : This is the major issue burning in people’s minds at present with the ‘war on terror’. Muslims have shown their disapproval of terrorism but has that been enough? For what the terrorists are said to have done, the intensity of protest should be loud and clear and terrorists should be clearly expelled and dissociated from Muslim communities. Yet for this ‘make or break’ issue, once again Muslims have failed to show a voice loud enough to make it clear.


It is not too late to get Muslim values straight. The source is ready to be looked into, the Quran. All a person has to do is engage with it and acquire its values and his priorities will be straight once again.


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NoName55
06-18-2007, 02:31 PM
Don't you people first read about the people you copy paste from?
Don't you first like to find out who they and their friends are?
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Muslim Knight
06-18-2007, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
:w:
How does something get polluted?

is it alright to accept something that has lies and truth mixed together? then may aswell accept the new testament and o.t as okay too, for those are only partially based on lies and distortion
If you can properly address the issues concerned, then we may get a headstart on a proper intellectual discussion. I've read the author's defense of Islam in Malaysia Today website amidst so many non-believers and outright kuffar that and their relentless attacks on Islam, he single-handedly choose to address their assaults and break their arguments one-by-one. For me, it was so feeble that I could only direct them to Islamic forums if they were so keen on finding the truth.
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Muslim Knight
06-18-2007, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
Don't you people first read about the people you copy paste from?
Don't you first like to find out who they and their friends are?
Since you know something that we don't know, why don't you enlighten us before you hand out judgment?
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 02:35 PM
Being Farouk A. Peru in the World


"I am a human being in the world. This is the beginning of the matter and this is the end.

As a human being, I am in the world a certain way. I seek pleasure, avoid pain and seek everlasting existence. This is my existentialisation.
In order to fulfil my existentialisation, I must seek my essence and what I consider to be the essence of humanity itself. Therefore I must essentialise.
This blog is about existentialisation and essentialisation : my being in the world"
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czgibson
06-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by NoName55
Being Farouk A. Peru in the World

"I am a human being in the world. This is the beginning of the matter and this is the end.

As a human being, I am in the world a certain way. I seek pleasure, avoid pain and seek everlasting existence. This is my existentialisation.
In order to fulfil my existentialisation, I must seek my essence and what I consider to be the essence of humanity itself. Therefore I must essentialise.
This blog is about existentialisation and essentialisation : my being in the world"
An attempt at phenomenological writing. He's been reading Heidegger, I would guess.

What exactly is your objection to this man, NoName?

Peace
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 03:02 PM
I hate plagiarists and Nazis, you did know his hero (whose way of speech he emulates) was a member of German Nazi Party?
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czgibson
06-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by NoName55
I hate plagiarists and Nazis, you did know his hero (whose way of speech he emulates) was a member of German Nazi Party?
You mean Heidegger? Yes, he was a member of the Nazi party - fairly high up too. That doesn't have any bearing on his philosophy, though - at least from my point of view. Are you familiar with Heidegger's philosophy?

Hating people generally isn't a good thing, by the way.

Peace
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Philosopher
06-18-2007, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


You mean Heidegger? Yes, he was a member of the Nazi party - fairly high up too. That doesn't have any bearing on his philosophy, though - at least from my point of view. Are you familiar with Heidegger's philosophy?

Hating people generally isn't a good thing, by the way.

Peace
He also needs to remember that any German who refused to join the Nazis would face severe consequences.
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snakelegs
06-18-2007, 09:36 PM
i find this all to be very sad. i have been hesitant to respond to the article because sometimes i think kaffir approval is taken as confirmation that something is Bad.
to me all the article is talking about is that muslims should examine their priorities and there are real problems that should be addressed.
i can see problems with #4 - and actually it would be hard to get enthusiatic about this one as a priority. however, it would be politically useful because there is a very ugly backlash brewing in europe and the more muslims could do to defuse it, without sacrificing the values of islam - the better it would be for the future of european muslims.
#5 is also a problem - mainly because it is inaccurate.
the other things seem to me to be very connected to what i understand as islamic values.
how can it be unislamic to address poverty, honour killings, terrorism, (which i realize is controversial), child labour? you can't be muslim and care about these things?
if it is, then i have really gotten the wrong picture of islam in my head. i thought islam cared about life and justice.
there are those who are interested in manipulating muslims for their own purposes - and they are not all non-muslim.
i really don't understand.....and am very puzzled and find it quite disturbing.
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 09:44 PM
how can it be unislamic to address poverty, honour killings, terrorism, (which i realize is controversial), child labour? you can't be muslim and care about these things?
I'll just give a hint or attempt at addressing one to start with.

child labour:
next time you go out jogging in your £300 Nike kit, think who made it, how they made it and what the maker's share was out of that £300

wasalam
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barney
06-18-2007, 09:54 PM
Got in after the edit. What are we discussing?
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 09:57 PM
Got in after the edit. What are we discussing?
oh just the usual. like how to blame Muslims for everything. how to help them turn into lina joys, how to keep them busy while the get robbed and slaughtered.
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snakelegs
06-18-2007, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
I'll just give a hint or attempt at addressing one to start with.

child labour:
next time you go out jogging in your £300 Nike kit, think who made it, how they made it and what the maker's share was out of that £300

wasalam
actually i don't have or want such a thing. but your point is valid. most of the products we buy here are made in china by prison or other type of slave labour. i boycott walmart, but there is no way to avoid buying goods made by slave or child labour.
my point was, how can you say that some of the things he mentioned are not in keeping with islamic values? i can't tell muslims what their priorities should be, but what is wrong with this:
It is not too late to get Muslim values straight. The source is ready to be looked into, the Quran. All a person has to do is engage with it and acquire its values and his priorities will be straight once again.
do i totally misunderstand islamic values? the writer may be some kind of Bad Guy - i know nothing about him, but isn't there any truth in what he writes?
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 10:42 PM
put it another way, would anyone want Bush family going on a lecture tour across the State extolling virtues of Democracy, while stealing the election?

no matter what the ingrdients of a dish are if it was prepared in a sewer by a rat, I'm not putting it on my table
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Keltoi
06-18-2007, 11:07 PM
In other words, if you changed the name on the article and pasted it on another website known to be more....whatever...most probably wouldn't have a problem with much of it at all.
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barney
06-18-2007, 11:08 PM
The 15000 palastinians that have died in the battles with Israel, are something that muslims from all nations will denounce , burn flags for , and indeed travel thousands of miles to blow themselves and half a dozen jewish kids to bits for.

Fifteen thousand is a massive number. OK, so the majority were carrying guns and petrol bombs and concerete blocks etc, but a lot of innocents also died in the crossfire. It's right that the muslims accross the world should go ballistic over it in protest.

But when Muslims kill 600,000 in 4 years, not 20 years, 4 years.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=39201

Where is the Ummah then?
Its 30 times worse. Why only 1% if that, of the protest?
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NoName55
06-18-2007, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
In other words, if you changed the name on the article and pasted it on another website known to be more....whatever...most probably wouldn't have a problem with much of it at all.
yes, more or less... you got it. after removing the subliminal lies mixed in with truth.

atlast some one with commonsense
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barney
06-19-2007, 01:03 AM
Also in response to my own post, cos i like talking to myself (worrying really :) ), Saddam Hussain killed 300,000 of his people in 1992-2003.

Thats pretty intensive going, beating the 80,000 the "heroic freedom fighters" have slaughtered since 2003 and even the 3000 innocent dead from US stray bombs aimed at the "Heroic freedom fighters" whilst attempting to protect muslims.

Now probably several trillion words (literally) have been written in incandecent anger against those 3000 dead, but does the 80,000 that the anti-iraqi "heroic freedom fighters" get a condemnation? Nope.

Mayby the 3 million that Saddam killed in his 35 years? I'm sure I can recall a few mumbled words from the ummar? Nope.

Nahh, forget the 3 million, something much more worthwhile remembering and constantly quoting and protesting about is the Crusades of 600 years ago.

Cos thats whats important, right?

Sod the Massive ongoing butchery in Sudan , somalia and a dozen other Islamic nations. The stray shots of the 18yr old US Grunts is the thing to drive the ummah into action.
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snakelegs
06-19-2007, 01:16 AM
so - to those muslims who were offended:
it is more because of the writer than the content?
would you say not all the content is objectionable - say, the spirit of the article is accceptable?
would you agree that it may be time to look at priorities?
and, noname55 - i see your point - i couldn't put any credibility in anything bush said -though if he said fish live in water, i couldn't deny that.
a non-muslim, while he has opinions, certainly can't tell muslims what their priorities should be.
but i saw almost nothing in the articel that could be construed as unislamic in values.
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barney
06-19-2007, 01:48 AM
And to continue my rant at myself.

How come every muslim and their pet cat protested at the Mohammd cartoons but diddnt raise a word when "life of Brian" by monty python mocked Isa?
Or how come they dont burn down a French Embassy for allowing the putting of Cartoons of God (the same god as allah yeah?) pictured on a cloud throwing thunderbolts around.

Basically, double-standards.
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NoName55
06-19-2007, 02:09 AM
how long this consultation between mods take to move against some one so persistant as this one?

a week, month, a year?

and when I post something they don't like threads get locked quicker than I can refresh the page sometimes.

I am going to do an experiment to see who gets banned first me or these retarded trolls
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barney
06-19-2007, 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
how long this consultation between mods take to move against some one so persistant as this one?

a week, month, a year?

and when I post something they don't like threads get locked quicker than I can refresh the page sometimes.

I am going to do an experiment to see who gets banned first me or these retarded trolls

Hey! I just keep thinking of new stuff!

Anyway, I'd much rather someone try to address the point than dive in with the Trollage label.
Do you beleive that the ummah is as unified on Sudan as it is on the palastinian issue?
Does it ...umm...did it, condem Saddam like it condem's US mistakes?
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NoName55
06-19-2007, 02:22 AM
If spamming and trolling what rocks the boat of bosses of this place and this is how their donating members get their jollies, lets give them some, for I can see no other reason for them to allow you retard to remain here a moment after you little prats reveal youselves
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barney
06-19-2007, 02:28 AM
Spamming is posting something without points.
i have several points but no attempts at answers.

Trolling is deliberatly trying to cause trouble and greif & being insulting.
None of the above applies to my question...where are the ummah when massacers happen in Iraq and Soamlia and the Sudan etc etc.

Pointlessly replying that someone is a spammer, without making a point....Is Spamming.
Calling someone a retard and a prat is ......trolling.
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Bittersteel
06-19-2007, 05:36 AM
I liked the article.it spoke a lot of truths.
None of the above applies to my question...where are the ummah when massacers happen in Iraq and Soamlia and the Sudan etc etc.
busy with their own businesses.Leave Iraq out of these massacres.or were you talking about Saddam's actions?
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snakelegs
06-19-2007, 06:14 AM
and the one who doesnt pray ( after been giving advice and the chance to repent and turn back to their religion).

Originally Posted by Aziz
says where,the Quran?
a specific verse please.
i'm writing this not because i have knowlege but because if i am wrong, i know someone will correct me and i'm interested in the question too. i'm pretty sure it's not in the qur'an, but from the ahadith.
in effect, someone who doesn't pray is eligible for death because not praying makes you an apostate. so that point in the article was inaccurate.
the more i think about it - no, i'm sure it's not in the qur'an because the death sentence for apostasy is not in the qur'an - so they are both from the ahadith.
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Muslim Woman
06-19-2007, 08:57 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by barney
And to continue my rant at myself.

How come every muslim and their pet cat protested at the Mohammd cartoons but diddnt raise a word when "life of Brian" by monty python mocked Isa?
Or how come they dont burn down a French Embassy for allowing the putting of Cartoons of God (the same god as allah yeah?) pictured on a cloud throwing thunderbolts around.

Basically, double-standards.
this is the first time i have heard of life of Brian . Remember , Muslims took long 4 to 5 months to protest against the cartoon.


anyway , Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet . I m sure , if they come to know about the slander u mentioned in ur post , they will start the protest with all the cats they have :enough!: :enough!:

may be , sis kittygal ? & neice kitten of other forum will be happy to supply their cats :p


all u have to do is let them know ......:p or ask BBC , CNN to publish about the picture .

BTW , why throwing thunderbolts around is offensive ? Can u explain more ?
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Malaikah
06-19-2007, 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by barney
How come every muslim and their pet cat protested at the Mohammd cartoons but diddnt raise a word when "life of Brian" by monty python mocked Isa?
Personally, I get a little annoyed at the mockeries of Isa, not as much as the mockery of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Why? Because the mockery of Isa is of the 'son of god', not of Isa the prophet of God... it is just so detached, to me, that it almost feels like they are talking about a totally different person.

Other than that, I am already used to seeing the biggest mockery of Isa ever (in my opinion)- statues of him almost naked on a cross.:rollseyes

Or how come they dont burn down a French Embassy for allowing the putting of Cartoons of God (the same god as allah yeah?) pictured on a cloud throwing thunderbolts around.
God is not a human and is perfectly capable of defending Himself... any one who draws such a foolish picture of God is obviously at idiot and not worth attending to. Also, they don't label it as the 'Muslim' God, so that makes it a little less offensive to me as a Muslim.
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glo
06-20-2007, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:
anyway , Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet .
Greetings Muslim Woman

How does reading jokes about Jesus in Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) lead you to the conclusion that 'Christians are used to mocking Jesus'???
Are all people who write for Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) Christians?? Are even any people who write for Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) Christians??
And if so, how do you know?

Did Christians readers of the Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) find those jokes funny? Or offensive?
And if so, how do you know?

I am sure I would be able to have some interesting discussions with you, if you laid off the sweeping generalisations ... :rollseyes

Peace
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wilberhum
06-20-2007, 08:42 PM
Muslim Woman
Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet .
You seem to lack the ability to distinguish between "are used to mock" and tolerance. Not every one issues death threats and burns down buildings as a "protest".
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Fishman
06-20-2007, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
If spamming and trolling what rocks the boat of bosses of this place and this is how their donating members get their jollies, lets give them some, for I can see no other reason for them to allow you retard to remain here a moment after you little prats reveal youselves
:sl:
Please don't insult people like that, it doesn't convey a good message about Islam and Muslims.
:(

As for the article, I don't really see what is wrong with it, these things should be a bigger issue. I don't agree with point seven, as there are already tons of condemnations of terrorism in literature, enough to make you go bonkers, but there should definately be more about the other problems of the community.

We can only right the wrongs of others once we have solved our crimes too.
:w:
Reply

Muslim Woman
06-21-2007, 01:40 AM
Salaam/ peace ;

Originally Posted by glo
I am sure I would be able to have some interesting discussions with you, if you laid off the sweeping generalisations ... :rollseyes

Peace
ok :D

sorry :cry: if u r hurt by my sweeping generalisations :ooh: ....let me explain .

I don't think , Muslims are the owners or publishers of Readers Digest . I m 100 % sure Muslims did not write those jokes either as we respect all Prophets (pbut).

The meg is published in Chrisitian majority countries & not only 1 or 2 jokes , i saw several jokes days after days or u may say , years after years .

Also , i read about ad / joke where Jesus (p) played gamble with devil. I also read so many Church funnies .......surely Muslims did not write those . It's only possible for Christians to write those jokes because they know wha't going on inside churches.


These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .


If u want a more serious ans , then may visit this link :

A Message To The Non-Muslims

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post773363


I asked there , Why is that Christians are so sensitive about Muslims opinion that is expressed with full respect to Jesus (p) but they don’t react much ( at least as same as they do with Muslims ) when it’s the question of Jews opinion ???


If it's a question of tolerance that a participant pointed out , then how come Chrisitians love & tolerance dry up ( oooppsss ,not all's but some or many Chrisitians :zip: ) when it's the case with Muslims ?

Reply

Keltoi
06-21-2007, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/ peace ;



ok :D

sorry :cry: if u r hurt by my sweeping generalisations :ooh: ....let me explain .

I don't think , Muslims are the owners or publishers of Readers Digest . I m 100 % sure Muslims did not write those jokes either as we respect all Prophets (pbut).

The meg is published in Chrisitian majority countries & not only 1 or 2 jokes , i saw several jokes days after days or u may say , years after years .

Also , i read about ad / joke where Jesus (p) played gamble with devil. I also read so many Church funnies .......surely Muslims did not write those . It's only possible for Christians to write those jokes because they know wha't going on inside churches.


These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .


If u want a more serious ans , then may visit this link :

A Message To The Non-Muslims

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post773363


I asked there , Why is that Christians are so sensitive about Muslims opinion that is expressed with full respect to Jesus (p) but they don’t react much ( at least as same as they do with Muslims ) when it’s the question of Jews opinion ???


If it's a question of tolerance that a participant pointed out , then how come Chrisitians love & tolerance dry up ( oooppsss ,not all's but some or many Chrisitians :zip: ) when it's the case with Muslims ?
The fact the U.S. has a Christian majority doesn't translate into Christians editing Reader's Digest. You are correct that Christians probably aren't as "sensitive" as Muslims when it comes to their religion. We live in a secular society, which most prefer, and being offended sometimes comes with the territory. Instead of using up all our organizational power to counter jokes and cartoons, Christians save the juice for more pressing concerns, like religious discrimination, abortion, and the overall trend of censoring all things deemed to be Christian in society.
Reply

wilberhum
06-21-2007, 05:20 AM
These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .
You still can't seem to understand the difference between sensitivity and tolerance.
I can feel anger yet allow someone else there right to their opinion.
If when I feel anger I go and threaten to kill people because they expressed there opinion, that is not respect, that is intolerance.
Reply

Muslim Woman
06-21-2007, 08:16 AM
Salaam/ peace ;
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The fact the U.S. has a Christian majority doesn't translate into Christians editing Reader's Digest.
what's the meaning ? Americans don't read Readers Digest ?

Instead of using up all our organizational power to counter jokes and cartoons, Christians save the juice for more pressing concerns, like religious discrimination, abortion, and the overall trend of censoring all things deemed to be Christian in society.
don't know what u r trying to say . The word
' abortion ' reminded me that many US Christians supported Bush on abortion ground. Thus they gave their full support to Bush who was a proven liar & killer of thousands & thousands innocent Iraqi people including kids.


They knew that Bush will surely kill more innocent people in Iraq , still they gave more inmportance on unborn babies in USA. US Christians mothers & doctors are killing babies & the Iraqi people must pay the price . :cry: :'(



To me , it's a double standard of US Christians . May be u have ur own explanation that it's not.




Reply

Skywalker
06-21-2007, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by sankelegs
in effect, someone who doesn't pray is eligible for death because not praying makes you an apostate. so that point in the article was inaccurate.
the more i think about it - no, i'm sure it's not in the qur'an because the death sentence for apostasy is not in the qur'an - so they are both from the ahadith.
Well since nobody seemed to respond to this, I'll take the liberty if you guys don't mind.
Firstly, I seriously don't think that a person not praying makes them an apostate. If it does, then any Muslim that commits a sin can also be called an apostate because he's doing something against God's wishes. Obviously, this is not the case. Apostasy in my opinion is failing to perform any of the five pillars, and most importantly not believing in the Oneness of Allah and the message of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh). Failing to perform one or two of those makes a person a weak Muslim, but not an apostate.

Secondly, I think you all know my stance on apostasy. As snakelegs said, there's no mention for a punishment for those who leave Islam in the Qur'an, on the contrary, it actually mentions people who apostate and come back to Islam and apostate again, etc... and only a few ahadeeth mention death to apostates, which we discussed in another thread and noted that they have very strict conditions that have to be met before a person can be eligable to be executed.

As for the article, I don't know what u guys are complaining about. I see a lot of it as totally valid and am quite surpised to see fellow Muslims rejecting the points mentioned. As for who wrote the article, I didn't see any names, but the site it's on is not bad, or anti-Islamic. So I really don't see what the fuss is about.

As for the points:

Poverty-I think that Muslims actually do protest against poverty, but not strictly as Muslims, but as people of the world along with other groups of people. One other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of poverty in this world is actually in places where a lot of Muslims live.

Honor killings-I think the reason why a lot of people aren't protesting this is because there's very little awareness of it. It's quite rare that you hear about these cases, and I only knew about it by visiting one of those anti-Islamic sites where they threw a bunch of articles talking about this in my face. Nevertheless, I agree that people who know about this should definetely protest it because it's completely against Islam and what we believe, and is making Islam look bad to those who don't know much about it.

Child labor-I'm no expert on this so I'm just gonna ask a question here...is there such thing as legal child labor? I'm sure there must be...and I think that what the article is talking about is the illegal kind. I see nothing wrong with children living in poor families working to help support their families, but children being trafficked and all that or getting badly underpaid or not paid at all is definetely wrong. I think the article has to be more specific about that if they want support for it.

Suppression of cultures-I don't know if protesting against this will really do anything positive, unless what is meant here are things like banning hijab in schools, etc. This however is not suppression of cultures, but supression of religions, and those are two different things, and yes I do think that we should protest things that force us to not fulfill our religious rights which are also our constitutional rights given you live in a country like France, etc. But my opinion is that if you don't want your culture to be suppressed, instead of protesting, share your culture with others!

Death fatwas-And the controversy begins... Although I can see how some individuals from around the world can be considered enemies of Islam, we as Muslims don't have the jurisdiction to kill them if they are attacking from non-Muslim countries. Even if they were in Muslim countries, you'd have to sit and talk to them first, and only if they insist on continuing their attacks are we allowed to kill them.
Secondly, death is not only dealt in retaliation, but also for adultery and certain cases of apostasy, BUT only within Islamic countries. You can't for example kill a woman in the US that slept with a man that's not her husband. That's crazy.
So should we protest against these death fatwas? If you have A LOT of people, yes, because if you don't, you'll probably get one on your own head.
I think it would be more effective though to actually sit with the people issuing these fatwas and convince them with scripture that they are wrong. I mean they can't ignore scripture if they REALLY doing this in the name of Allah.

Terrorism-Now there's one that I'm really down for. Muslims should definetely stand up against this, as well as things like suicide bombings, etc., because they are things that are completely against Islam.

Unfortunately (I actually wanted to write an article about this), Muslims these days feel like they should be protesting the dispicable actions of non-Muslims against Muslims before protesting the dispicable actions of Muslims against both Muslims and non-Muslims. In a way, that's understandable, but on the other hand, if they do protest against the actions of some of their 'evil brethren', wouldn't that make Islam as an ummah look better to the international community while at the same time be a fulfillment of God's commands to us. Like that one hadith, if you see something evil being done try to change it with your hand, and if you can't do that then change it with your words, and if you can't do that either, then hate it in your heart. In my opinion, now that virutally everybody has Internet access, there's no excuse for anyone to not be able to perform the second one.

:w:
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
06-21-2007, 01:54 PM
Seeing that everyone has gone off topic and insulting one and another

:threadclo
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