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snakelegs
07-03-2007, 10:06 PM
i hate to be yet another non-muslim telling muslims What They Should Do, but that's ok - i'll go right ahead and do it anyway. :D
first i want to be clear that i am not talking about assimilation in the sense that you are supposed to water down your religion and culture to fit in. you do not need to change who you are and tailor your value system to become another ingredient in the "melting pot".
i feel, and have felt that way for a long time - so it has nothing to do with the recent Thing - that muslims need to break out of their isolation. i think it is imperative for the future of muslims living in non-muslim countries. i realize that because of the racism and the negative attitudes, many muslims understandably feel on the defensive, but i think in this case, muslims are going to have to take the innitiative.

it is so easy for people to believe others are as the media tell them they are. too many people have never really been around or known a muslim. when you work side by side with someone on a mutual problem, you begin to suspect that they are quite human after all.

there are many ways muslims could work together with non-muslims. skywalker posted a thread in "campaigns" about muslims working with christians:

"On Tuesday, one of Britain’s most influential Muslim charities and one of the Christian world’s most prominent relief agencies signed a landmark partnership to build peace and help relieve poverty currently afflicting millions of people across the globe."

there are many problems that are "universal" - not "muslim" not "christian" not "sikh" - poverty, peace, education, homeless people, health care etc etc.
to a degree i think muslims are co-operating with their own marginalization. the future of muslims in non-muslim countries does not look good and there is a very ugly backlash building up.
suspicion, fear and anger are mounting on both sides. someone has to break through this. is it possible? desirable? what do you think?
i'll shut up now (it's hard work telling other people What They Should Do) and hide and go back to minding my own kafir business. :hiding:
let's see if this thread can be free of hostility....
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Keltoi
07-04-2007, 02:40 AM
Hey, at least it is free of hostility. :)
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syilla
07-04-2007, 02:45 AM
actually i thought thats what the muslims are doing right now.
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Woodrow
07-04-2007, 02:53 AM
As Snakelegs said there are many things that are common to all people and are not unique to any religion, culture or race. Education is a tool needed by all people. A starving baby is a starving baby, there is no need to ask a bay it's religion, race or color.

Genuine Charity is for all people, all people were created by Allah(swt), we all came from Adam(as)

This is an area all people need to work together and all can while still keeping our individual identities and no need to compromise any Belief.
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Muslim Knight
07-04-2007, 03:05 AM
snakelegs has a very good opinion and I can respect that. I have nothing against a non-Muslim that reminds his Muslim friend to adhere to the virtuous tenets of his religion (i.e. giving out charity, treating others with good manners, reminding others of the love of God).

It saddens me somehow whenever I surf some blog in which Muslims, albeit bad Muslims who go against the basic prohibitions in Islam about not getting drunk or killing indiscriminately, gets bashed, and ultimately Islam gets bashed as barbaric religion (when it specifically orders Muslims not to misbehave and what not). Also, when the bashers themselves lauds in something like, "Why do you Muslims say intoxicants are haraam, I see so many Muslims drinking intoxicants and getting drunk?"

But of course, I do not tend to generalize all non-Muslims and lump them all as inveterate kaffirs. I do have respectable non-Muslim friends who even bother to wake me up for my Fajr prayers. For them I do pray for their success and for the light of God to reach even them.
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Zman
07-04-2007, 03:34 AM
:sl:/[i]Peace To All

there are many problems that are "universal" - not "muslim" not "christian" not "sikh" - poverty, peace, education, homeless people, health care etc etc.

That's great. I like that...

to a degree i think muslims are co-operating with their own marginalization.
That's true to a degree, but, certain people and organizations are also plotting to marginalize them.
the future of muslims in non-muslim countries does not look good and there is a very ugly backlash building up.
I Wouldn't be surprised if another holocaust is committed, this time against Muslims...
suspicion, fear and anger are mounting on both sides. someone has to break through this. is it possible? desirable? what do you think?
I agree. But the break through must be done on both sides. It takes 2 to tango.

Both sides are complicit in what is taking place, and both sides must work together to achieve a solution that includes peace, Justice & harmony between all.

One side cannot lecture and berate while the other does all the work.

It is definitely possible and desirable. Both sides must block the forces (on both sides) who are attempting to maintain & widen the divide...
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snakelegs
07-04-2007, 06:55 AM
Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:/[i]Peace To All


That's great. I like that...


That's true to a degree, but, certain people and organizations are also plotting to marginalize them.

very true.

I Wouldn't be surprised if another holocaust is committed, this time against Muslims...

this is too scary to think about - but i see some kind of mass deportation as a possibility, tho a high percentage of muslims have been born in the countries they are living in. whenever a group of people are demonized it raises some very dark possibilities.

I agree. But the break through must be done on both sides. It takes 2 to tango.

i agree with this too. but i think it is such an important need, that if need be muslims should take the innitiative.

Both sides are complicit in what is taking place, and both sides must work together to achieve a solution that includes peace, Justice & harmony between all.

absolutely. we have allowed ourselves to be polarized.

One side cannot lecture and berate while the other does all the work.

true, but if the other side seems unwilling to make a start - well, someone has to take those first steps.

It is definitely possible and desirable. Both sides must block the forces (on both sides) who are attempting to maintain & widen the divide...
yes, there are definitely interests on both sides that want to see people divided and estranged.
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snakelegs
07-04-2007, 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
snakelegs has a very good opinion and I can respect that. I have nothing against a non-Muslim that reminds his Muslim friend to adhere to the virtuous tenets of his religion (i.e. giving out charity, treating others with good manners, reminding others of the love of God).

it's not really reminding you to adhere to the tenets of your religion - it has more to do what may ultimately become your survival or your right to live in "the west"
It saddens me somehow whenever I surf some blog in which Muslims, albeit bad Muslims who go against the basic prohibitions in Islam about not getting drunk or killing indiscriminately, gets bashed, and ultimately Islam gets bashed as barbaric religion (when it specifically orders Muslims not to misbehave and what not). Also, when the bashers themselves lauds in something like, "Why do you Muslims say intoxicants are haraam, I see so many Muslims drinking intoxicants and getting drunk?"

But of course, I do not tend to generalize all non-Muslims and lump them all as inveterate kaffirs. I do have respectable non-Muslim friends who even bother to wake me up for my Fajr prayers. For them I do pray for their success and for the light of God to reach even them.
i find a lot of muslims have this image of kaffirs running around half-naked, staggering from one party to the next. i guess it is because this element is the most visible. we all have stereotypes to overcome and break through.
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north_malaysian
07-04-2007, 08:14 AM
I dont have the problem to integrate with a majority non-Muslims society.... I'm a Penangite :okay:

No problems....
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Eric H
07-04-2007, 10:54 AM
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

"On Tuesday, one of Britain’s most influential Muslim charities and one of the Christian world’s most prominent relief agencies signed a landmark partnership to build peace and help relieve poverty currently afflicting millions of people across the globe."
What are the names of these charities, it would be good to show support for them?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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Tania
07-04-2007, 11:09 AM
After a course of economy i can say the charity is not a solution. The issue to can be solved from roots the people should have a place where to work, with their money to can buy foods, clothes and so on.
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Eric H
07-04-2007, 02:29 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Tania;
After a course of economy i can say the charity is not a solution. The issue to can be solved from roots the people should have a place where to work, with their money to can buy foods, clothes and so on.
Of course you are right in theory but in order to put things right the poor need a chance, and they have always been deprived of that chance because of human greed.

I heard recently a horrible statistic through the charity Christian Aid..
The combined wealth of the three richest people on Earth is the same as the combined wealth of the 48 poorest countries, which represent about a third of the world’s population.

How do people overcome greed, why do individuals want so much, causing grinding poverty to others?

As Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Although charity is not the best solution it does help some people, and charities are aware that helping people find sustainable work is the best long term solution. We have been supporting a young girl in Uganda for the last three years by sending her money every month through the Charity ‘World Vision.’ Her family have managed to buy goats, land and fruit trees and the letters we receive from her show that this has made a huge difference to her family.

There are places in this world were $15 dollars can bring water to a village, can you imagine living in a village were all the people could not club together and come up with $15.
There are place in this world were people can’t come up with $10 dollars to buy enough fruit tree saplings to support themselves

In the spirit of praying for economic fair trade

Eric
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north_malaysian
07-05-2007, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you Tania;


Of course you are right in theory but in order to put things right the poor need a chance, and they have always been deprived of that chance because of human greed.

I heard recently a horrible statistic through the charity Christian Aid..
The combined wealth of the three richest people on Earth is the same as the combined wealth of the 48 poorest countries, which represent about a third of the world’s population.

How do people overcome greed, why do individuals want so much, causing grinding poverty to others?

As Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Although charity is not the best solution it does help some people, and charities are aware that helping people find sustainable work is the best long term solution. We have been supporting a young girl in Uganda for the last three years by sending her money every month through the Charity ‘World Vision.’ Her family have managed to buy goats, land and fruit trees and the letters we receive from her show that this has made a huge difference to her family.

There are places in this world were $15 dollars can bring water to a village, can you imagine living in a village were all the people could not club together and come up with $15.
There are place in this world were people can’t come up with $10 dollars to buy enough fruit tree saplings to support themselves

In the spirit of praying for economic fair trade

Eric
Well..... God distribute the wealth on this earth evenly to everyone.... but as some people take more proportions than others and became rich people... of course there would be poor people here....

But rich people also work alot in order to become richer..... so those who are hardworking and have lots of money should never be called as bad people right?

The conclusion is that... it's not a bad thing to be rich.... but it a bad thing if you are rich and ignoring the poors.....
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snakelegs
07-05-2007, 02:36 AM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;



What are the names of these charities, it would be good to show support for them?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
hi eric,
here is one that skywalker posted on the campaigns thread:
http://ramadan.muslimaid.org/Page170.asp
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snakelegs
07-05-2007, 02:41 AM
i think there are sometimes other ways people get together, though charity is sometimes the most available. (i am a bit of a recluse, do i don't know a whole lot) - but sometimes there are local community projects that different people get together on. a number of years ago in my town, during a flood, people got together and cleared the outflow channel, which was full of weeds and garbage.
maybe people could propose mutual efforts like this to their imams or other cleric types.
i think a lot of the mistrust that has accumulated between muslims and non-muslims would crumble if only they could get to know each other by working together on something.
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Muslim Knight
07-05-2007, 03:30 AM
I remember reading Newsweek 1997, it says on Earth we have 6 billions people living. Out of that number 1 billion is obese because of overeating, and 1 billion suffering starvation and malnutrition.
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north_malaysian
07-05-2007, 05:08 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
I remember reading Newsweek 1997, it says on Earth we have 6 billions people living. Out of that number 1 billion is obese because of overeating, and 1 billion suffering starvation and malnutrition.
whoaaa.... if those overeating people cut their food intake by 50%, the world would be free of those starving people...
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Muslim Knight
07-05-2007, 05:35 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
whoaaa.... if those overeating people cut their food intake by 50%, the world would be free of those starving people...
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I mean, how much can you eat a day?
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north_malaysian
07-05-2007, 05:39 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I mean, how much can you eat a day?
Just go to any buffet available in Malaysia - I've seen lots of people eating - as if there is no tomorrow.... some even brought back those food to their homes ("Tapau").
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syilla
07-05-2007, 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i think there are sometimes other ways people get together, though charity is sometimes the most available. (i am a bit of a recluse, do i don't know a whole lot) - but sometimes there are local community projects that different people get together on. a number of years ago in my town, during a flood, people got together and cleared the outflow channel, which was full of weeds and garbage.
maybe people could propose mutual efforts like this to their imams or other cleric types.
i think a lot of the mistrust that has accumulated between muslims and non-muslims would crumble if only they could get to know each other by working together on something.
It comes down to 'human attitude'.

I can only summarise a few.

1. Non-muslims that can't accept and will not tolerate with muslims who are strict with their rules of which is halal and which is not.

For example on Charity.

Muslims will not accept charity from the casinos / 4D company. :blind: If they accept it, then thats totally different story.

2. Muslims who wouldn't be bothered with the non-muslims attitude that keeps judging islam in a negative way. So avoiding is the best way.

3. Non-muslims who hate muslims or avoid the muslims because they 'think' that the muslims are judging their moral conduct or hate islam in every aspect.

4. Muslims who are not strict in practising islam and can go along with the non-muslims in most of the events.
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Muezzin
07-05-2007, 07:21 PM
Comedy is also universal. If you make people laugh (deliberately :p), they'll like you. I'm not saying everyone has to be the class clown, but tell some howlers if you know 'em. That initial liking greatly eases any further tensions that may arise over politics or religion, and a sense of humour is always a plus.

Just day to day things, it's kind of easy to greet people with a smile. It's nice to be cheerful with people, too. I know that depends on your day to day mood, but it does help. :)
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MaiCarInMtl
07-06-2007, 03:47 PM
As another poster said, it takes 2 to tango. I think everyone has to do a little something in order for the borders to come down (even if just a bit).

People isolating themselves doesn't help, but sometimes the attitude of people forces you to isolate yourself. The media can be used for good, but often it doesn't go in-depth enough to explain what the whole situation is (and so it is biased) andencourages people to make assumptions based on next to no information. I know this one local channel had a few episodes where this one news anchor went around and talked to people from a different minority every week (to experience their culture, their customs, to discuss politics and how they feel living in this province). I never got to watch the show since it was on when I was never home, but shows like this, made to sensitize people to other cultures is great.

One does not need to sacrifice their beliefs or morals, but if only everyone would just take a bit of time to listen, make a bit of an effort to understand, then things would be much better.

But we all know peopel generally don't like change, they don't like things that are even just a little bit different from them, people easily feel threatened... It's hard to explain but if we work at it, some changes can be done.
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Eric H
07-09-2007, 09:41 PM
Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

I am pleased that a number of charities are working together with the Islamic Relief charity. I am also pleased that three of the charities I support are amongst the ones listed, Christian aid, World Vision, and Cafod. If you go to:

http://www.islamic-relief.com/submen...cle.asp?id=170

and click on ‘disaster emergency committee’

It is good to see interfaith co-operation.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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Ansar Al-'Adl
07-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Greetings,

A number of good points have been raised. I just wanted to point out a lecture done by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi which covers this subject very well.

"I believe the correct approach as a community should be a healthy integration. Not total isolation, and definitely not assimilation. A healthy integration." - Yasir Qadhi

See part 5 here, from around 2min:
http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/30/...adhi-in-london

Regards
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snakelegs
07-10-2007, 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Greetings,

A number of good points have been raised. I just wanted to point out a lecture done by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi which covers this subject very well.

"I believe the correct approach as a community should be a healthy integration. Not total isolation, and definitely not assimilation. A healthy integration." - Yasir Qadhi

See part 5 here, from around 2min:
http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/30/...adhi-in-london

Regards
i just listened to that. i agree with the speaker - that the "middle way" should be taken. he is talking about exactly what i meant. i feel that this in extremely important - that muslims break that bubble and connect. yes, it takes two - but i think with all the bad images that people have of muslims - it might need to be necessary to take that first step. it is too easy to believe the caricatures and stereotypes when you have never known each other.
as he said, it is not "us" vs. "them". there are many problems facing everyone and there is no reason we should not work together to solve them.
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glo
07-10-2007, 09:49 AM
How come I have missed this thread until now???
(Perhaps because snakelegs gave it such an obscure title ...) :hiding:

Anyway, this one gets a nomination for the

'Peaceful and Positive LI Thread Award'



Peace :D
Reply

Muslim Knight
07-12-2007, 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by glo
How come I have missed this thread until now???
(Perhaps because snakelegs gave it such an obscure title ...) :hiding:
What, you didn't think this is the thread for gay people to come out and make confessions, now did you?

Because if you did, well... LOLs. LOLs to you glo.
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