Khilafah. How do we achieve it?

[AhlaamBella]

:sl:

Alhamdulilah I attended the Khilafah talk in London on 4th August. MarshAllah it was good. I am not a member of the Hizb, yet, have a lot of friends who are, and all I hear is how I can't make a difference unless I am in the Hizb. But isn't spreading Islam through Dawah the way to achieve the Khilafah? How does compulsory Hizb membership fit into that? This is my argument. InshAllah, just wanted to see what everyone here thought.

:w:

Khadijah

[AhlaamBella]

Anybody? lol

[AhlaamBella]

No one? :(

[S_87]

:sl:

which hizb would this be?
ive seen that many of these hizbs are all talk no action.
the first thing a person needs to do is fix themself, then the people around them. not political wise but spiritual wise.
something i read a long time ago went like this
establish shariah within yourselves and you will see it establish around you

so joining something and going to marches and lectures isnt going to do much use. imo :-\

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[seeker_of_ilm]

:sl:

Hizb ut Tahrir...... :-\ :uhwhat

Enough said.

:w:

[Umm Yoosuf]

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaah

Sister I advice you to stay away from these kind of people. All there talks are based on nothing but Khilafah! Khilafah! Khilafah! They need to submite to Allah subhan wa ta'aala first, they need to fulfil the right Allah has over them. If the Muslims submited to Allah completely and practised their religion according to the text, than Allah will grant them success.

[beespreeteam]

I know a lot of people in Australia who say that hizb do more bad than good by being unprepared and getting owned on tv etc LOL. I don't know, just what I've heard.

[AhlaamBella]

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaah

Sister I advice you to stay away from these kind of people. All there talks are based on nothing but Khilafah! Khilafah! Khilafah! .

SubhanAllah sister I know what you mean! I try talking to them about even the most general of topics such as exam results, and one sister in particular ALWAYS manages to bring the conversation round to Khilafah. Alhamdulilah, not all of them are like that. But the typical stereotyped Hizb member is impossible to have a conversation with!

[InToTheRain]

:sl:

Their Ideas are flawed even though some within all groups have sincere intentions so I wouldn't shut the door on their face so as to speak but maybe you should guide or advice them.

Even if they did get Khilafah how ill the maintain it? I dread the idea of a Khilfah ruled by the those who lack Emaan, taqwah, Ilm or Knowledge in Fiqh. Surely if the foundation is not strong it will crumble, and unfortunately just ain't ready yet. Allah(SWT) will change our situation once we change what is within us insha'allah. Therefore even if the Khilafah came tommorow, it will go down the day after.

If you think they are wrong then you should try to advice them as you should like for your brothers and sisters what you like for yourself insha'allah. Whether they accept or not is upto them. In my case they stayed away from me as I made it pretty clear to them what I believe. Within every group you will find some that are sincerely seeking the truth although the group mentality does stop one from looking at certain things objectively.

[AhlaamBella]

So true brother. However, speaking to them is easier said than done. They take everything personally. You'd need some sort of back up in order to have an orderly discussion

[InToTheRain]

:sl:

So true brother. However, speaking to them is easier said than done. They take everything personally. You'd need some sort of back up in order to have an orderly discussion

I know what you mean :/ just make sure it's a 1 on 1 else sometimes they feel the heat under peer pressure etc I guess...it's all waswas, saytans wispers play with our mind.

:sl:We should elect zAk to be the new Kalifha. :thankyou:

Ye bro just let me know when and where I should go to my Bayan :D

[AhlaamBella]

:sl:



I know what you mean :/ just make sure it's a 1 on 1 else sometimes they feel the heat under peer pressure etc I guess...it's all waswas, saytans wispers play with our mind.

I tried that once. I got ambushed :giggling:

[KAding]

Stability! IMHO you have to have stability and prosperity before you can get unity. Insisting on unity when people are generally still uneducated and poor is a pipe dream. In such an environment people will always fail to 'think big' and tribalism will reign.

So I think you have to strive to make the individual countries stronger and more prosperous. At this point you don't have to insist yet on complete and total implementation of the Sharia, that will come automatically once people become more educated and the middle class gains more power. It is the only way to truly tame despotism and strive for a more just form of government. Similarly, unity will come automatically once that happens, because Muslims are ideologically inclined to cooperate with each other. Muslims should strive for an incremental European Union kind of approach to unity, rather then a 'big bang' kind of approach through global jihad or whatever.

So in short, try to limit infighting by not supporting rebels or vigilante Islamic justice. Such infighting is disastrous for the prospects of Islam, since it will only weaken the Muslim world.

This is just the opinion of a kaffir, so take it with a grain of salt ;).

[AhlaamBella]

I can understand what the Hizb are saying, and yes, we do need a Khilafah. But their methodology isn't right. I've been to many of their circles and their Islamic knowledge is VERY limited as all they reda and listen to is the Khilafah! It's all politics

[Muezzin]

I'm debating whether or not to close this thread. It just seems to be going in circles. Regardless of what we might think about the er... HT's, we shouldn't really resort to backbiting, which is what seems to be going on in place of actually discussing the topic. The topic itself poses a question which many people on this board lack the acumen to answer in the first place. Hmm...

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

I think you should close it brother.

[AhlaamBella]

I did want this thread to be about how to achieve the Khilafah and other people's opinions....it's sort of strayed unfortunately

[Haidar_Abbas]

enough said... :sl:

[AhlaamBella]

Brother, could you please expand on that photo? I don't believe enough HAS been said about it

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: uktee, means we gota fight for it , its the khalifah isnt gona make itself :sl:

[AhlaamBella]

I don't believe that picture explains it well at all. The Khilafah must be established by peace. not violence, which is what that photo shows

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: dear sister, was the victories at Badr, Banu Qaynuqa, Uhud, Banu Nadir, Banu Qurayza, Hudaybiyyah, Khaybar, Mu'tah, Mekkah,Hunayn, Autas, Ta'if , Tabouk ..etc... due to the believers sitting around and saying "we wont get up and fight for our deen? hardly my dear sister, im not demeaning you but simply stating it takes more than throwing flowers at those who throw led to gain victory.:sl:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

:sl: dear sister, was the victories at Badr, Banu Qaynuqa, Uhud, Banu Nadir, Banu Qurayza, Hudaybiyyah, Khaybar, Mu'tah, Mekkah,Hunayn, Autas, Ta'if , Tabouk ..etc... due to the believers sitting around and saying "we wont get up and fight for our deen? hardly my dear sister, im not demeaning you but simply stating it takes more than throwing flowers at those who throw led to gain victory.:sl:

Why don't we all just have a big fight? That's bound to make things better!





Actually, what about aiming for...

Peace

:?

[jzcasejz]

Greetings,


Why don't we all just have a big fight? That's bound to make things better!





Actually, what about aiming for...

Peace

:?

His post does not necessarily mean that we just get in one big ring and fight. The truth is that when the previous victories came, they only came due to everyone willing to put their life on their line for the Religion i.e. sacrificing their own blood. And I repeat, that doesn't necessarily translate to unjust violence of any kind.

[Haidar_Abbas]

you'd prefer sitting in a cirlce playing guitar?(music is not permissable) i think not and its an issue in which should be solved within the ummah only.

[AhlaamBella]

:sl: dear sister, was the victories at Badr, Banu Qaynuqa, Uhud, Banu Nadir, Banu Qurayza, Hudaybiyyah, Khaybar, Mu'tah, Mekkah,Hunayn, Autas, Ta'if , Tabouk ..etc... due to the believers sitting around and saying "we wont get up and fight for our deen? hardly my dear sister, im not demeaning you but simply stating it takes more than throwing flowers at those who throw led to gain victory.:sl:

I understand what you mean. But, the Muslims in that time we using DEFENSIVE fighting. I know the muslims in this world need defending, but in this day and age, if a muslims hows aggression,they get arrested. We need another method

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: akh Jz, i couldnt of said it better shoukran akhee :sl:

[jzcasejz]

:sl: akh Jz, i couldnt of said it better shoukran akhee :sl:

Salaam

Wa Iyyaak Akhee. BarakAllaahu Feek. :)

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: sis, quital fee sabeelillah is both offensive and defensive, its to both protect our ummah and fight to establish one since in this case of these times its shattered its out obligation and dear sis, most of those battles i mentioned we're offensive campaigns, and without them we wouldnt be here today saying La Ilaha IlAllah :sl:

[AhlaamBella]

:sl: sis, quital fee sabeelillah is both offensive and defensive, its to both protect our ummah and fight to establish one since in this case of these times its shattered its out obligation and dear sis, most of those battles i mentioned we're offensive campaigns, and without them we wouldnt be here today saying La Ilaha IlAllah :sl:

I'm still of the opinion that Violence should be a last resort. Islam is not spread by the sword...despite what people say

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: plz dear sis, think carefully of your opinion on this issue and perhaps seek some more knowledge on this authentic sort from the ulimah inshaAllah youll gather a greater understanding of the deen :) :sl:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

you'd prefer sitting in a cirlce playing guitar?(music is not permissable) i think not and its an issue in which should be solved within the ummah only.

No, what I propose is engaging your brain and condemning calls for violence, rather than encouraging them, as you have clearly done here. People like you must bear a large part of the responsibility for Islam's bad public image on the world stage.

Peace

[Haidar_Abbas]

alhamdulillah we have ulema to make proper rulings for us to follow, and i obstain from sensationalistic terms like "condoning calls for violence" " Islamist terrorism" etc....we're not islamist we're muslims, we're not terrorists...and i do use my brain more than 10% alhamdulillah

[czgibson]

Greetings,

i obstain from sensationalistic terms like "condoning calls for violence" " Islamist terrorism" etc....

It'd be good if you abstained from calling for violence, too, wouldn't it?

Peace

[NoName55]

Muslims Beware!
Shia infiltrators are very keen on qitaal (as long it is we who do it and get squished by kuffaar), they will push you forward into "jihad" then stab you in the back

[Umm Yoosuf]

:sl: uktee, means we gota fight for it , its the khalifah isnt gona make itself :sl:

And how should one fight for this in our time? Until the Muslim return to Quran and Sunnah I do not see the how this will happen. How should the Muslim fight a khalifah when they do not understand what is obligatory on them of Aqeedah ??!!

Al-Albani said:

"... everybody claims that the prophet is their role model. Our prophet SAW spent the first half of his message in making da3wa, and he started with it not with jihad. The prophet first raised his companions Islamic education like he educated them to say the word of truth and not be afraid of it, he also taught them the Islamic teachings. We know that our Islam today is not like it was when Allah revealed "today I have completed your religion", many things have indeed been added to Islam,..."




Imaam Ibn Qayyim said in his book Miftaah Daar us-Sa’aadah (vol.2, pp. 177-178):


“Contemplate on His wisdom in that He makes the kings and rules of the people those who have the same actions as them. Indeed, their actions manifested in the form of their leaders and kings. If they were steadfast, their kings became steadfast; if they were just, their rulers were likewise just to them; if they were unjust, their kings and rules would also be unjust. If plotting and treachery manifested amongst the people, it would likewise be manifested in their leaders. If they withheld from the rights of Allah and were stingy, their kings and rulers would also withhold their money and be stingy. If they took from those who were weak without right in their interactions with them, their kings and rulers would take from them without rights… so their actions are an image of their people’s actions and it is not from Devine Wisdom except that those who are evil and immoral are put over those who are like them in actions. When the first generation were the best of generations and the most righteous, their leaders were like that as well. Now though, the wisdom of Allaah denies that those ruling over us will be of the likeness of Mu’awiyah or ‘Umar bin ‘Abdul ‘Azeez not to mention the likes of Abee Bakr and ‘Umar! Rather, our leaders have our own condition and the leaders before represented the condition of the people they were ruling over. Both types each have their necessary wisdom and its own requisite. ”

Look at the speech of this noble Imaam, who was firmly grounded in knowledge and spoke with wisdom and exposition from the Book of Allaah and the sunnah of the Messenger (sallaahu alayhi wassallam)! Look at how he made clear to us that our leaders are from us and are a punishment to us! So if we obeyed Allaah and traversed the straight way then Allaah would bless us with leaders and rules like us. So whoever attributes the calamites of the Muslims to the rulers and leaders (solely) has greatly erred, is incorrect and is off the straight way.

Source taken from the Book; Who’s In For ‘Iraaq?! Shaykh ‘AbdulAzeez bin Rayees ar-Rayees; Pages 23-24


We must come back to Allah and than we shall gain success Insha Allah.

[AhlaamBella]

And how should one fight for this in our time? Until the Muslim return to Quran and Sunnah I do not see the how this will happen. How should the Muslim fight a khalifah when they do not understand what is obligatory on them of Aqeedah ??!!

Al-Albani said:

"... everybody claims that the prophet is their role model. Our prophet SAW spent the first half of his message in making da3wa, and he started with it not with jihad. The prophet first raised his companions Islamic education like he educated them to say the word of truth and not be afraid of it, he also taught them the Islamic teachings. We know that our Islam today is not like it was when Allah revealed "today I have completed your religion", many things have indeed been added to Islam,..."




Imaam Ibn Qayyim said in his book Miftaah Daar us-Sa’aadah (vol.2, pp. 177-178):


“Contemplate on His wisdom in that He makes the kings and rules of the people those who have the same actions as them. Indeed, their actions manifested in the form of their leaders and kings. If they were steadfast, their kings became steadfast; if they were just, their rulers were likewise just to them; if they were unjust, their kings and rules would also be unjust. If plotting and treachery manifested amongst the people, it would likewise be manifested in their leaders. If they withheld from the rights of Allah and were stingy, their kings and rulers would also withhold their money and be stingy. If they took from those who were weak without right in their interactions with them, their kings and rulers would take from them without rights… so their actions are an image of their people’s actions and it is not from Devine Wisdom except that those who are evil and immoral are put over those who are like them in actions. When the first generation were the best of generations and the most righteous, their leaders were like that as well. Now though, the wisdom of Allaah denies that those ruling over us will be of the likeness of Mu’awiyah or ‘Umar bin ‘Abdul ‘Azeez not to mention the likes of Abee Bakr and ‘Umar! Rather, our leaders have our own condition and the leaders before represented the condition of the people they were ruling over. Both types each have their necessary wisdom and its own requisite. ”

Look at the speech of this noble Imaam, who was firmly grounded in knowledge and spoke with wisdom and exposition from the Book of Allaah and the sunnah of the Messenger (sallaahu alayhi wassallam)! Look at how he made clear to us that our leaders are from us and are a punishment to us! So if we obeyed Allaah and traversed the straight way then Allaah would bless us with leaders and rules like us. So whoever attributes the calamites of the Muslims to the rulers and leaders (solely) has greatly erred, is incorrect and is off the straight way.

Source taken from the Book; Who’s In For ‘Iraaq?! Shaykh ‘AbdulAzeez bin Rayees ar-Rayees; Pages 23-24


We must come back to Allah and than we shall gain success Insha Allah.

JazakAllah. :thankyou:

[NoName55]

jazak illah khairan wasalam alaikum Sr. Al-Mu'minah

[Ebtisweetsam]

:sl:

Alhamdulilah I attended the Khilafah talk in London on 4th August. MarshAllah it was good. I am not a member of the Hizb, yet, have a lot of friends who are, and all I hear is how I can't make a difference unless I am in the Hizb. But isn't spreading Islam through Dawah the way to achieve the Khilafah? How does compulsory Hizb membership fit into that? This is my argument. InshAllah, just wanted to see what everyone here thought.

:w:

Khadijah

The prophet PBUH told us only one group will enter Jannah... those who followed the Quran and sunnah.
He did not mention we have to be in a hizb, this is why i am against them........ every group thinks they are the ones in the right one.
How about putting ur trust in Muhammed's PBUH saying instead???

[Darkseid]

:sl:

Alhamdulilah I attended the Khilafah talk in London on 4th August. MarshAllah it was good. I am not a member of the Hizb, yet, have a lot of friends who are, and all I hear is how I can't make a difference unless I am in the Hizb. But isn't spreading Islam through Dawah the way to achieve the Khilafah? How does compulsory Hizb membership fit into that? This is my argument. InshAllah, just wanted to see what everyone here thought.

:w:

Khadijah

Islam is going to break apart much like the first Caliphate.

So said Allah to me.

[Talha777]

My dear friends what you dont understand is that the coming of a khalifa is like the coming of a Prophet. The bestowing of khilafat is the sole perogative of Allah, He unfolds His will in this regard as He pleases. Do not think that because Hazrat Abu Bakr (radhi Allahu aanhu) was elected by a group of eminent Sahaba, or that Hazrat Umar (Radhi Allahu anhu) was appointed by his predeccesor that man makes the khalifa. Rather, Allah Taala fulfilled His plan in the actions of men which they had no control over in this regard. Allah alone chooses the khalifa, it is an illusion, especially of the non-Muslims that khilafat is a manmade institution.

Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (against such evil advisors) is the one protected by Allah (Sahih Bukhari)

And also, the Ameer-ul-Mumineen is not simply a Muslim "king" of an empire, as many people mistakenly believe, he is appointed by Allah as the Imam of the Muslims, and our bayat to the Ameer of the time is binding on us. What we should do is pray that Allah may restore this bounty on us. This is the grace of Allah, which Rasoolullah (alaihi salaatu wa salaam) promised that it will be bestowed upon us, so we must fulfil our responbility and perfect our worship of Allah, and create unity among our own ranks so that He may once again pour down this great blessing upon us. Ameen.

[Darkseid]

My dear friends what you dont understand is that the coming of a khalifa is like the coming of a Prophet. The bestowing of khilafat is the sole perogative of Allah, He unfolds His will in this regard as He pleases. Do not think that because Hazrat Abu Bakr (radhi Allahu aanhu) was elected by a group of eminent Sahaba, or that Hazrat Umar (Radhi Allahu anhu) was appointed by his predeccesor that man makes the khalifa. Rather, Allah Taala fulfilled His plan in the actions of men which they had no control over in this regard. Allah alone chooses the khalifa, it is an illusion, especially of the non-Muslims that khilafat is a manmade institution.

Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (against such evil advisors) is the one protected by Allah (Sahih Bukhari)

And also, the Ameer-ul-Mumineen is not simply a Muslim "king" of an empire, as many people mistakenly believe, he is appointed by Allah as the Imam of the Muslims, and our bayat to the Ameer of the time is binding on us. What we should do is pray that Allah may restore this bounty on us. This is the grace of Allah, which Rasoolullah (alaihi salaatu wa salaam) promised that it will be bestowed upon us, so we must fulfil our responbility and perfect our worship of Allah, and create unity among our own ranks so that He may once again pour down this great blessing upon us. Ameen.

The reason why this has come up is because some people just don't have the ability to communicate to Allah. They are either too stubborn, too impure of heart, or too tight in the you know where. It isn't that hard to communicate to Allah. All you have to do is believe in yourself and don't assume, know, or pressume anything and then everything shall become crystal clear to you. ANd then you will be raptured with the great knowledge that is he. End of story.

[NoName55]

My dear friends what you dont understand is that the coming of a khalifa is like the coming of a Prophet. The bestowing of khilafat is the sole perogative of Allah, He unfolds His will in this regard as He pleases. Do not think that because Hazrat Abu Bakr (radhi Allahu aanhu) was elected by a group of eminent Sahaba, or that Hazrat Umar (Radhi Allahu anhu) was appointed by his predeccesor that man makes the khalifa. Rather, Allah Taala fulfilled His plan in the actions of men which they had no control over in this regard. Allah alone chooses the khalifa, it is an illusion, especially of the non-Muslims that khilafat is a manmade institution.

Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (against such evil advisors) is the one protected by Allah (Sahih Bukhari)

And also, the Ameer-ul-Mumineen is not simply a Muslim "king" of an empire, as many people mistakenly believe, he is appointed by Allah as the Imam of the Muslims, and our bayat to the Ameer of the time is binding on us. What we should do is pray that Allah may restore this bounty on us. This is the grace of Allah, which Rasoolullah (alaihi salaatu wa salaam) promised that it will be bestowed upon us, so we must fulfil our responbility and perfect our worship of Allah, and create unity among our own ranks so that He may once again pour down this great blessing upon us. Ameen.

from which books or websites did you derive all that? I would like to see reference, please! (if it is not to much to ask) wasalam to Muslim and Ahl al-kitaab

btw were ever or are you now a shiite/Ahamadi? (no offence intended but I do have a genuine reason for asking)

P.S.
prosperity > education > knowledge of correct basis for unity will result in unity of people of same Aqidah
I am not keen on unity of differing aqaa'id (other than day to day co-existence in peace)

[Talha777]

from which books or websites did you derive all that? I would like to see reference, please!

I already quoted the reference, but if you want some elaboration:

Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (against such evil advisors) is the one protected by Allah.' "

(Sahih Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 89, Number 306)

This is the full reference from Sahih Bukhari, I'm sure you can find it online somewhere if you don't have a copy yourself. The phrase "or gives the caliphate to a caliph" is pretty self-explanatory, it means Allah bestows khilafat to the khalifa, just like He bestows nabuwat to the Nabi. Jazakum Allah

[Talha777]

btw were ever or are you now a shiite/Ahamadi?

As it so happens until quite recently I used to be an Ahmadi (Qadiani), and most of my immediate family still is, but by the pure grace of Allah, He opened my heart to the true Islam, Ameen, and now I am no longer an ahmadi, but I solemnly believe that Muhammad (Alaihi salaatu wa salaam) is the last and final prophet.

[NoName55]

thank you wa salam

[NoName55]

by the way why do you have picture of a dead man's tomb (a well known Indian Sufi) in your signature?

[Muezzin]

This thread has gone off the rails. Nobody here is really qualified to answer the question in the first place.

Thread closed.