Why Islam is not Acceptable to West!!!

[silkworm]

From the western point of views that ISLAM is a threat to Western World. A threat to all evils - commercial evils, business evils, economic evils and also political evils, which are found freely in so called our developed western nations:

1. Islam prohibits alcohol - thus it will stop all business relating to alcohol [Industry, Bars, Night Clubs, etc] - Billion dollars of business will be closed.

2. Islam prohibits free sex, prostitutions - again billion dollars of sex, and prostitutes industries will be closed

3. Islam prohibits commercialization of women - thus billion dollars of putting naked or half naked women in advertisements will be lost.

4. Islam prohibits interest in Banking - thus all Financial Institutions will be closed and change to Islamic Banking Systems.

5. Islam prohibits injustice - thus the whole legal systems of western world need to be changed - Lawyer Firms will be closed.

6.Islam prohibits terrorisms and war - thus billion dollars of defense industries will be closed.

7. Islam prohibits rocks dancing - thus billion dollars music /rock festivals will be closed.

8. Islam prohibits gambling - thus billion dollars casinos will be closed.

9. Islam prohibits free sex - thus billion dollars porno sex films industry will be closed.

10. Islam prohibits abuse of drugs - thus billion dollars of illegal drugs business will be lost.

Thus ISLAM is a threat, and by whatever means MUST be stopped to reach the western world. For example the slaughtering of 7 million muslims in Spain is a good example. Even Islam in Spain at that time was very much advanced, in knowledge, sciences, industries - our Christian European was in the dark age, yet ISLAM must be stopped.

Logically and scientifically, I strongly feel, and others too, that whatever ISLAM prohibits are good to mankind. BUT! BUT!

SURELY WITH THE PRESENT BUSINESS WORLD WITH FULL OF EVILS - WHICH BRING IN BILLION OF DOLLARS WILL NOT LIKE ISLAM. ALL EFFORTS MUST BE CARRIED OUT TO STOP ISLAM.

Generally, these are the feelings the West hold against Islam.

[Haidar_Abbas]

:happy: yes, yes and yes you said it akhee lollll Allahu Akbar wa La Ilaha IlAllah wa Muhammad-an Roosulillah aameen:sl:

[guyabano]

From the western point of views that ISLAM is a threat to Western World. A threat to all evils - commercial evils, business evils, economic evils and also political evils, which are found freely in so called our developed western nations:

1. Islam prohibits alcohol - thus it will stop all business relating to alcohol [Industry, Bars, Night Clubs, etc] - Billion dollars of business will be closed.

2. Islam prohibits free sex, prostitutions - again billion dollars of sex, and prostitutes industries will be closed

3. Islam prohibits commercialization of women - thus billion dollars of putting naked or half naked women in advertisements will be lost.

4. Islam prohibits interest in Banking - thus all Financial Institutions will be closed and change to Islamic Banking Systems.

5. Islam prohibits injustice - thus the whole legal systems of western world need to be changed - Lawyer Firms will be closed.

6.Islam prohibits terrorisms and war - thus billion dollars of defense industries will be closed.

7. Islam prohibits rocks dancing - thus billion dollars music /rock festivals will be closed.

8. Islam prohibits gambling - thus billion dollars casinos will be closed.

9. Islam prohibits free sex - thus billion dollars porno sex films industry will be closed.

10. Islam prohibits abuse of drugs - thus billion dollars of illegal drugs business will be lost.

Thus ISLAM is a threat, and by whatever means MUST be stopped to reach the western world. For example the slaughtering of 7 million muslims in Spain is a good example. Even Islam in Spain at that time was very much advanced, in knowledge, sciences, industries - our Christian European was in the dark age, yet ISLAM must be stopped.

Logically and scientifically, I strongly feel, and others too, that whatever ISLAM prohibits are good to mankind. BUT! BUT!

SURELY WITH THE PRESENT BUSINESS WORLD WITH FULL OF EVILS - WHICH BRING IN BILLION OF DOLLARS WILL NOT LIKE ISLAM. ALL EFFORTS MUST BE CARRIED OUT TO STOP ISLAM.

Generally, these are the feelings the West hold against Islam.

Yes, and thats why the West is without wars, has good stable social security systems, hightec medecine, good running industry, export goods worldwide, high level of eductation...and and and...

On the other side, where Islam rules are wars, people are starving, need 'kuffar' medecine to survive, there is barely education, women still have barely few rights, kids get teached to fire guns, etc....

I don't know where you come out again to spew venom around, but I live in the west, and I have no hard feelings towards Islam. But me as a western person, I will of course never tolerate that Islam will influent my lifestyle.
And I'm pretty sure, you will act the same on your side. So, we can manage it to live as good neighbours, that will infact be the only option I see !

[Encolpius]

Yes, and thats why the West is without wars, has good stable social security systems, hightec medecine, good running industry, export goods worldwide, high level of eductation...and and and...

On the other side, where Islam rules are wars, people are starving, need 'kuffar' medecine to survive, there is barely education, women still have barely few rights, etc....

I don't know where you come out again to spew venom around, but I live in the west, and I have no hard feelings towards Islam. But me as a western person, I will of course never tolerate that Islam will influent my lifestyle.
And I'm pretty sure, you will act the same on your side. So, we can manage it to live as good neighbours, that will infact be the only option I see !

Well quite. The OP might have moral and/or religious objections to porno, advertising, interest, drink, and extreme metal (although I did once encounter some Jihadist grindcore on the internets!) but that doesn't give them the right to impose their moral order on the rest of the world. If they object to it so strongly, then I'm certain that with a bit of effort they can avoid engaging in such things?

Also, the OP fails for putting words into the mouths of myself and all the other kaffirs. Speaking of which, I'm surprised some smart aleck's not boycotting South Africa for banning the pejorative use of that word.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[guyabano]

Well quite. The OP might have moral and/or religious objections to porno, advertising, interest, drink, and extreme metal (although I did once encounter some Jihadist grindcore on the internets!) but that doesn't give them the right to impose their moral order on the rest of the world. If they object to it so strongly, then I'm certain that with a bit of effort they can avoid engaging in such things?

Also, the OP fails for putting words into the mouths of myself and all the other kaffirs. Speaking of which, I'm surprised some smart aleck's not boycotting South Africa for banning the pejorative use of that word.

Well, what pi** me off most is, that west must immedialtely be evil when it doesn't fit in some persons image. No, we built up this place and this is the way it is. I'm non-smoker, non-drinker, neither visit any bars. I'm an faithful husband and father but still, this is my lifestyle. It's not some religious persons with different views who are going to change it. I'm pretty sure, there can be a coexistence but wanting to come to the west and insulting all westerners as evil but then complaining, nobody like them ! No, it doesn't work like that

[czgibson]

Greetings,

A wonderfully naive piece of whimsy from the OP, there. Lovely.

Prohibition of alcohol and drugs has failed wherever it's been tried, forcing huge amounts of money into the hands of criminals. Prohibiting them and all the other things listed would be a disaster on a colossal scale.

Westerners would have to be pretty stupid to accept those proposals and use them to inform future policy.

Peace

[wilberhum]

Why Islam is not Acceptable to West?

Easy answer.
Most Westerners like the freedoms that come from a “Secular Democracy” and have no interest in becoming second class citizens of a Theocracy.

Well maybe it isn’t just Westerners.
There are major migrations from East to West and only minor migrations the other way. :rollseyes

I guess one needs to change there thought process and come to the conclusion that things are so wonderful in the East that they want to migrate West so life won’t be so grand. :skeleton:

[Amadeus85]

Free sex, alcoholism, injustice, wars , gambling or grug addictions arent fundaments of Western Civilization. Just like terrorism, opression of women, stagnation, lack of education, arent fundaments of islamic civilization.

[Amadeus85]

Well maybe it isn’t just Westerners.
There are major migrations from East to West and only minor migrations the other way. :rollseyes

Those people vote using their legs dear Wilberhum.

[Amadeus85]

Wilberhum, Guyabano,CzGibson, it seems that we have just defended the West :). All what we used were just wise and straight arguments :). The most deadly weapon for every silly ideas.

[wilberhum]

Wilberhum, Guyabano,CzGibson, it seems that we have just defended the West :). All what we used were just wise and straight arguments :). The most deadly weapon for every silly ideas.

You mean we didn't blame it on CNN? :skeleton: :skeleton:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Wilberhum, Guyabano,CzGibson, it seems that we have just defended the West :). All what we used were just wise and straight arguments :). The most deadly weapon for every silly ideas.

I think there must be many sensible Muslims who are truly fed up with some of the stupidity (not to mention violence) that is promoted in the name of defending Islam.

Still, we have to remember that there are a lot of young people here on the forum. They are not necessarily the best advert for their religion.

Peace

[Amadeus85]

You mean we didn't blame it on CNN? :skeleton: :skeleton:

:omg: dont say it loud, it is our secret weapon. :laugh:

[AB517]

I removed my post after reading the other post.

Thank you my islamic brothers, you said it better than I could.

Peace

[asadxyz]

Greetings,


I think there must be many sensible Muslims who are truly fed up with some of the stupidity (not to mention violence) that is promoted in the name of defending Islam.

Still, we have to remember that there are a lot of young people here on the forum. They are not necessarily the best advert for their religion.

Peace

Such ironic remarks do pop up when one has no answer.

[Talha777]

There is a great truth in the words of brother silkworm, that Islam poses a threat to the unjust free market system that prevails in the West, where anything goes as long as it sells and makes profits. Western society is drunk with the charms of wealth and hedonistic pleasures. In short, Western society has fallen in love with this transient world. Islam, on the other hand, is a dynamic religion, which teaches that we should uphold our humanity with all its morals and personal virtues of selflessness, rather than steep down to the level of animals where all we want is more and more.

The following ayat of the Holy Quran is a beautiful answer to the Western culture of consumerism and materialism:

The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will (2:212)

As human beings, we are always wanting more, yet we are never satisfied. Even in the West where it is a precedent in human history that the common man has more than even what an ancient king could only wish for, yet there is a grave unhappiness and emptiness in people lives. But this ayat says Allah will bestow an abundance upon those who are righteous and are not deceived by the allures and charms of this life, and they alone will be content with the provision of their Maker. Subhan Allah! We should rejoice over this promise and genuine glad-tiding, and we should feel sorry for those who have been deceived by Satan's vain charms.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Such ironic remarks do pop up when one has no answer.

Would you care to explain what you mean by that? Which ironic remarks? Who has no answer?

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

someone mentioned its impossible to ban alcohol,


the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam done it at his times causing the streets to flow with wine (due to it being thrown away to such great extents).

and dont get it wrong, there were people who were infatuated with alcohol, they just had the right help and a better direction then the people of today (islam).



as for wilberhum putting down the east by saying more migrate to the west, STUDY ECONOMY!!!!! MAYB YOU'LL REALISE SOMETHING!

the west is starving other nations, THEY DONT EVEN WANT AFRICA TO USE ELECTRICITY? they hog all the wealth etc, seriously... i cant believe how blind some people can be.


media brainwashing i guess :-\

[Ebtisweetsam]

someone mentioned its impossible to ban alcohol,


the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam done it at his times causing the streets to flow with wine (due to it being thrown away to such great extents).

and dont get it wrong, there were people who were infatuated with alcohol, they just had the right help and a better direction then the people of today (islam).



as for wilberhum putting down the east by saying more migrate to the west, STUDY ECONOMY!!!!! MAYB YOU'LL REALISE SOMETHING!

the west is starving other nations, THEY DONT EVEN WANT AFRICA TO USE ELECTRICITY? they hog all the wealth etc, seriously... i cant believe how blind some people can be.


media brainwashing i guess :-\

Nicely said brother!:D :D :D

[czgibson]

Greetings,

someone mentioned its impossible to ban alcohol,


the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam done it at his times causing the streets to flow with wine (due to it being thrown away to such great extents).

and dont get it wrong, there were people who were infatuated with alcohol, they just had the right help and a better direction then the people of today (islam).

Did he manage to ban alcohol from an entire country? Just try that today and watch the criminals rake in profits from bootlegging. Theoretically it's not impossible, but the probability is very strong that it would be a total disaster.

as for wilberhum putting down the east by saying more migrate to the west, STUDY ECONOMY!!!!! MAYB YOU'LL REALISE SOMETHING!

Yes, people move to the West in search of economic security, among heaps of other advantages.

the west is starving other nations, THEY DONT EVEN WANT AFRICA TO USE ELECTRICITY? they hog all the wealth etc, seriously... i cant believe how blind some people can be.

I thought I'd heard most of the conspiracy theories around, but evidently not. Any evidence to support this idea?

Peace

[guyabano]

the west is starving other nations, THEY DONT EVEN WANT AFRICA TO USE ELECTRICITY? they hog all the wealth etc, seriously... i cant believe how blind some people can be.

ermmm. one of the basic World affair rules is to provide a link for this. Where can I read that, or do I have to assume, it is only your opinion ?

Also for the 'west is starving the east' thingy, provide a link please

these words i cant believe how blind some people can be. are definetely in the top ten quotes of this forum. :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol i thot the economic disaster was well known?

you mean the members above me are not aware of the injustice and starvation the west does?


please do research on it, if you attempt to research and find nothing then i will spend a few of my hours to find it for you :) and without a doubt i can find it for you...

[czgibson]

Greetings,

lol i thot the economic disaster was well known?

It depends which one you're talking about. If you express yourself clearly, with evidence, then your readers are more likely to understand what you are talking about.

you mean the members above me are not aware of the injustice and starvation the west does?

I'm aware that the West has committed lots of injustices. Which ones are you talking about?

please do research on it, if you attempt to research and find nothing then i will spend a few of my hours to find it for you :) and without a doubt i can find it for you...

I can't find anything to back up this claim:

THEY DONT EVEN WANT AFRICA TO USE ELECTRICITY?

I suppose it makes more sense with some conspiracy-glasses on. Like I said earlier, any evidence for this?

I certainly want Africa to have electricity. Why not?

Peace

[guyabano]

I certainly want Africa to have electricity. Why not?

Specially, they can built thousands of power plants supplied by solar/thermic energy since the sun is there in abondance in the desert.

Oh wait, I guess they need West Money to finance that ? Maybe that's what he called economical disaster ?

[wilberhum]

[S]Mean while, back on topic[/S]

Why Islam is not Acceptable to West

Here is another fine example.
Iranian police arrest partygoers
Police in Iran say they have arrested 20 young people at a party in the city of Karaj, north-west of the capital Tehran, on Wednesday night.
More than 200 people were arrested a week ago in the same city for attending an illegal rock concert.
(More)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6938753.stm

[IbnAbdulHakim]

edit -

[guyabano]

[S]Mean while, back on topic[/S]

Here is another fine example.
Iranian police arrest partygoers
Police in Iran say they have arrested 20 young people at a party in the city of Karaj, north-west of the capital Tehran, on Wednesday night.
More than 200 people were arrested a week ago in the same city for attending an illegal rock concert.
(More)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6938753.stm

For me, it looks like there is a revolution going on in the middle east. People clearly send out a message and want to adapt western values, else, why would they organize secretly a rock concert ?

[Al-Zaara]

ermmm. one of the basic World affair rules is to provide a link for this. Where can I read that, or do I have to assume, it is only your opinion ?

Also for the 'west is starving the east' thingy, provide a link please

Now the harm of the Western people can be seen in history, through objective glasses.

The Middle East isn't innocent either. Anyways, there are many things that aren't given out to read, proof you can hold in your hands so to say. But you can always see what happens and what changes, proof that flows around you, which you cannot grasp for.


Nevermind. To the title... There are many reasons, but I could say because a basis for Europe at least, is Christianity... Islam differs from Christianity, although we've got similarities. So long as Muslims and Christians can never fully accept eachother, so long will East and West, never be able to "fusionate", always will there be problems. The only momentaly solution, I think, is either only Muslims, or without Muslims... If you want a completely Muslim-problem-free place that is. Still remember every kind of people and religion has given problems to another kind of people and religion.


People should think how can we be with eachother, instead of searching for faults.


The Earth doesn't belong to any of us. We can say "I was here first", but who created it? The creator has always the upper hand, because quite frankly we didn't pay for the Earth. Believers in God, say of course God is the creator. Scientists or atheists or someone else may say Big Bang. We haven't met or seen, neither Big Bang or God, so we think we can say "it's mine". If we really wanna be fair, as we act, we should only try to stand eachother. Or completely eliminate.


Only my humble opinion, feel free to disagree.

[wilberhum]

People should think how can we be with eachother, instead of searching for faults.

Now, I like that one.
But that is not what silkworm thinks.
He thinks we can never get along because the West is nothing but Evil.

[yigiter187]

Yes, and thats why the West is without wars, has good stable social security systems, hightec medecine, good running industry, export goods worldwide, high level of eductation...and and and...

On the other side, where Islam rules are wars, people are starving, need 'kuffar' medecine to survive, there is barely education, women still have barely few rights, kids get teached to fire guns, etc....

I don't know where you come out again to spew venom around, but I live in the west, and I have no hard feelings towards Islam. But me as a western person, I will of course never tolerate that Islam will influent my lifestyle.
And I'm pretty sure, you will act the same on your side. So, we can manage it to live as good neighbours, that will infact be the only option I see !

.if islam hadnt banned imperialising,exploiting people out of your nation,,ı think islamic countries would have been so developed like west(!)..

[Encolpius]

[S]Mean while, back on topic[/S]

Here is another fine example.
Iranian police arrest partygoers
Police in Iran say they have arrested 20 young people at a party in the city of Karaj, north-west of the capital Tehran, on Wednesday night.
More than 200 people were arrested a week ago in the same city for attending an illegal rock concert.
(More)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6938753.stm

Actually, the metal band Ahoora from Iran are pretty tasty... sounds a bit like Iced Earth crossed with Wargasm and with just a little bit of "Cowboys from Hell"-era Pantera in there.

[wilberhum]

.if islam hadnt banned imperialising,exploiting people out of your nation,,ı think islamic countries would have been so developed like west(!)..

Right. :? One thing you can be sure of.

If things were different, things would be different. :rolleyes:

[yigiter187]

ıf ottomans had imperialised the places it conquered,OMG, turkey would be surely the first power of world....you can have a look to a map of ottoman state...you will surely understand what ım trying to say..

[yigiter187]

exploit other counrties,test your medicines on poor africans,test your weapons on poor people and then be a developed country..we dont want such a developement...

[wilberhum]

ıf ottomans had imperialised the places it conquered,OMG, turkey would be surely the first power of world....you can have a look to a map of ottoman state...you will surely understand what ım trying to say..

Ya, I just love those IF's. :hiding:

Let's see, if the world was flat................

[wilberhum]

exploit other counrties,test your medicines on poor africans,test your weapons on poor people and then be a developed country..we dont want such a developement...

Ya just have to wonder why god ever let the "Great Satan" come to power. :-\

[Amadeus85]

Maybe lets back to the topic.

The question is, why islam is not acceptable in West. My answer is, that islam is acceptable in West. I mean, does anybody deport muslims by force from Europe or something? Of course i realize that this thread was made only to insult Westerners. Because the creator of the topic thinks, just like other muslims who posted here, that fundaments and basics of West are alcoholism, porn industry, gambling, nudity, injustice. If you want to know what are the fundaments and heritage of Western World, you should read Shakespeare, listen to Beethoven, see Rembrandt's paintings, read Kartesius etc.

[wilberhum]

Religious Islam is fine, come one come all.
Political Islam, fix the ME first.

[Amadeus85]

Religious Islam is fine, come one come all.
Political Islam, fix the ME first.

But how to seperate those both things? :muddlehea It seems to be connected as fire and smoke.

[wilberhum]

But how to seperate those both things? :muddlehea It seems to be connected as fire and smoke.

If they can not accept the West, they need to stay East. :hiding:
As far as I am concerned, they are welcome to join our society.
They are not welcome to destroy it. :thumbs_do

[snakelegs]

i find islam just as acceptable as any other religion. i would not find it acceptable to live in a theocracy of any kind.

[yigiter187]

Ya, I just love those IF's. :hiding:

Let's see, if the world was flat................

im trying to say that we had the opportunity to imperialise the cıountries we conquered but we didnt because it is against islam and it is against ethic to be a developed nation by imperialisation....

we had opportunity but we didnt use this as it is inhumane...but westerners did this inhumane unethic thing and became developed cıuntries...

[guyabano]

i find islam just as acceptable as any other religion. i would not find it acceptable to live in a theocracy of any kind.

I will join this one. If Muslims accept to practice Islam as a religion in the West, then I see absolutely no problems. But starting to mess up and try to impose their laws in our society: Definetely NOT !
Muslims and Christians living together in a place ruled by secular laws. That would be my vision of peace.

[Ebtisweetsam]

I will join this one. If Muslims accept to practice Islam as a religion in the West, then I see absolutely no problems. But starting to mess up and try to impose their laws in our society: Definetely NOT !
Muslims and Christians living together in a place ruled by secular laws. That would be my vision of peace.

I think that depends on what you would call messing it up?
If u are talking about muslims who dont practise Islam, i would agree with you 100%, but if you're talking about islam- the only religion in the universe that allows you to leave ur home opened and trust nothing will be stolen, my dear brother ur sorely mistaken...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I will join this one. If Muslims accept to practice Islam as a religion in the West, then I see absolutely no problems. But starting to mess up and try to impose their laws in our society: Definetely NOT !
Muslims and Christians living together in a place ruled by secular laws. That would be my vision of peace.

can i ask you something, do you think a just ruler who is sincere is enough to run a fair secular government?

dont you think even in his sincerity there will be faults and imperfections... even a whole council or commitee is likely to have mistakes and imperfections when dealing with such a huge responsibility.

[guyabano]

ok,

I imagine a place, where everybody is free to practice his religion according to their beliefs WITH the restriction (And that is vaild for ALL religions) that no priest, scholar, imam, bischop, or whatever has a power in a governement.
Governement is elected by people and NO laws made by any God !
A Concil/Government shall be voted and grouped by people of all religions equally and discuss. I think, everybody would have to make some restrictions to satisfy the whole community.
Religious problems should be discussed and fixed within the believer community

I know, its a little bit simplistic view, but hey, it would be a nice start. :D

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ lol but i asked if why you think that its a good system, everything based on the desires of a few people, and then they implement what they "feel" is best and everyone else gets adapted into it. What makes this so good? im asking you why you dont seem to think that man-made laws are disruptive (which they clearly are, we can see that from todays world), we need a better source for our laws... dont you think?

[guyabano]

...and what would be this better source of law ? God...?

[wilberhum]

I think that depends on what you would call messing it up?
If u are talking about muslims who dont practise Islam, i would agree with you 100%, but if you're talking about islam- the only religion in the universe that allows you to leave ur home opened and trust nothing will be stolen, my dear brother ur sorely mistaken...

Never will happen. You are talking about a dream land where all Muslims are good people. :rollseyes

[wilberhum]

im trying to say that we had the opportunity to imperialise the cıountries we conquered but we didnt because it is against islam and it is against ethic to be a developed nation by imperialisation....

we had opportunity but we didnt use this as it is inhumane...but westerners did this inhumane unethic thing and became developed cıuntries...

You are reading "History" by "The Victors".

Have a read about what some of the loosere say.

[wilberhum]

can i ask you something, do you think a just ruler who is sincere is enough to run a fair secular government?

dont you think even in his sincerity there will be faults and imperfections... even a whole council or commitee is likely to have mistakes and imperfections when dealing with such a huge responsibility.

Do you assume that anyone can just because they call god Allah?

[Skywalker]

...and what would be this better source of law ? God...?

Let's see...create laws based on the experiences of people which change due to circumstances and situations OR create laws laid out by the being that created those people and knows us better than we know ourselves...

Tough decision.

[Ebtisweetsam]

Never will happen. You are talking about a dream land where all Muslims are good people. :rollseyes

No it wont as long as satan is about.......:D

[wilberhum]

No it wont as long as satan is about.......:D

Da :skeleton:

Meanwhile, back in the real world ..............

[IbnAbdulHakim]

...and what would be this better source of law ? God...?

the same being which created the laws of nature which simply are impossible to defy....

[Keltoi]

I support secularism not because I don't wish to follow God's law, but I believe a secular democracy/republic gives people the freedom to worship and follow whatever religious law they wish, as long as it doesn't harm others. Secularism preserves religion in my mind, as there is a concrete freedom to worship as one sees fit. No wars over religious control, no mass exodus in search of freedom.

[silkworm]

I fail to undertand the relation betwen "intoxication" and "development", the only development you would get is the ticket handed to you by a cop.

Islam has bo problem is the West is drinking or doing drugs or having sex, Islam is only warning about "what happens after the above"???

[guyabano]

I fail to undertand the relation betwen "intoxication" and "development", the only development you would get is the ticket handed to you by a cop.

Islam has bo problem is the West is drinking or doing drugs or having sex, Islam is only warning about "what happens after the above"???

Well, sometimes I get the feeling, that 'some' muslims really need these kind of restrictions to be able to live in a society. Me, I live in the west, and have absolutely no problem with drugs, alcohol, sex or whatever sins. It's called self-control. Most people have self-control. There is just a bunch of 'outlaws'. Now I notice, that 'these' muslims here on the forum judge the whole western society based upon these few ones, who don't know to behave.
But exactely 'these' muslims are the ones, who complain, when 'we westeners' judge all muslims beeing terrorists based upon a few muslim 'outlaws'.

Further, you don't like sex (which I seriously doubt), alcohol and drugs, so stay on your side and don't complain !

[silkworm]

Exactly, thats what we want, for instance when we do not criticize or despice your "half-naked" ladies strolling on the beaches, you shouldn't also be despising our ladies who are properly dressed and are not "offering" the forbidden fruit to every tom, dick and harry that comes in the way.

[wilberhum]

Exactly, thats what we want, for instance when we do not criticize or despice your "half-naked" ladies strolling on the beaches, you shouldn't also be despising our ladies who are properly dressed and are not "offering" the forbidden fruit to every tom, dick and harry that comes in the way.

Exactly you are good and we are evil.
So that is why you should stay away.

It is just not possible for a good person to remain good in our society. :embarrass

[silkworm]

Wilberhum, NO, you are getting it alllll wrong... Bro we need to follow each other to get at some point. Hostile attitude could only make matters worse.

[wilberhum]

Wilberhum, NO, you are getting it alllll wrong... Bro we need to follow each other to get at some point. Hostile attitude could only make matters worse.

I could not agree more. I try to limit my "Hostile Attitudes" to those that have "Hostile Attitudes".
Currently, not historically, Islam seams to be the only religion where there is no shortage of people that think there religion gives them the right to kill people because of there's.
Can you explain that?

[silkworm]

Wilberhum, anybody who has a Christian name but is not a practicing Christian or he does not believes in Christianity or has nothing to do with Christianity, can you call him a Christian???

Islam stirctly has forbidden "suicide" and God has said that anyone should not kill himself with his own hands cause this life he is having is a gift and given by me (God), so according to what I understand anybody who goes against this cannot be considered a Moslem.

Violent or terrorism has always been synonymous with Jews, than it was labelled that since Jews were Anti-Christ they have no right to live and before going on for any Crusading expeditions, the pogroms started with putting Jews to sword, that HAD a reason and a valid one so propagrated by the Popes, Christians were scared of Jewish spirituality.
Now, in these modern times, things are the same except for the Jews have been replaced by Moslems.

This is backed by wonderfully quick "global village" media. Again, the Christians are scared of "spirituality" but this time this is Moslem Spirituality, thats the reason they are trying to turn a Hero into a Zero.

[wilberhum]

Silkworm,
It is obvious that "Your Version" of Islam in not buried in hate and intolerance.
The problem lies in that there are many "Versions" of Islam.
Many of them do teach hate and intolerance.

[Woodrow]

Wilberhum, anybody who has a Christian name but is not a practicing Christian or he does not believes in Christianity or has nothing to do with Christianity, can you call him a Christian???

Islam stirctly has forbidden "suicide" and God has said that anyone should not kill himself with his own hands cause this life he is having is a gift and given by me (God), so according to what I understand anybody who goes against this cannot be considered a Moslem.

Violent or terrorism has always been synonymous with Jews, than it was labelled that since Jews were Anti-Christ they have no right to live and before going on for any Crusading expeditions, the pogroms started with putting Jews to sword, that HAD a reason and a valid one so propagrated by the Popes, Christians were scared of Jewish spirituality.
Now, in these modern times, things are the same except for the Jews have been replaced by Moslems.

This is backed by wonderfully quick "global village" media. Again, the Christians are scared of "spirituality" but this time this is Moslem Spirituality, thats the reason they are trying to turn a Hero into a Zero.

I realize you addressed this to Wilberhum, but it has aroused my curiosity.

Wilberhum, anybody who has a Christian name but is not a practicing Christian or he does not believes in Christianity or has nothing to do with Christianity, can you call him a Christian???

I wonder what would be considered a Christian name? Most English names are based on the Anglo-Saxon language and are not related to any particular religion. Most of the names are based on where a person's ancestors lived or what their occupation or status was.

Very similar with Russian names.

Most Christians in the Arabic speaking denominations have Arabic names.

Back in my younger days when I was Roman Catholic, my name was sort of frowned upon because I was not named after a Catholic Saint. My Scot/English name, which came about because nobody could pronounce or spell what my name was supposed to be, was not considered to be a "Proper" Catholic name.

With the exception of some Catholics I do not believe any Christian denominations consider any name to be Christian or non-Christian.

Now I am wondering what names could be considered Christian names?

My name Woodrow simply means "To live by the forest or protector of the Forest" it was a common title given to Game wardens.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Exactly, thats what we want, for instance when we do not criticize or despice your "half-naked" ladies strolling on the beaches,

I'm sure you will in a minute...

you shouldn't also be despising our ladies who are properly dressed

[Subjective value-judgement.]

and are not "offering" the forbidden fruit to every tom, dick and harry that comes in the way.

...there we go!

Please try to understand: just because a woman is not fully covered besides face and hands, that does not mean she is offering herself sexually to anyone passing by. If a populus thinks that revealing anything beyond the face and hands is too much of a temptation, I think the sexual attitudes of the men in such a society should be seriously questioned.

Peace

[Malaikah]

Ya just have to wonder why god ever let the "Great Satan" come to power. :-\

It isn't hard to understand. The Muslims have left Islam, overall. They don't practise it. Muslims countries are lead based on a system other than the Shariah. This is a very serious crime, and if the conditions are met, would render the person a non-Muslim, even though he considers himself Muslim. The people generally aren't better. Major sins are common place. Unfortunately the 'bad; Muslim greatly out way the 'good' Muslims.

The Muslim is punished in this life. They are trying to find success by abandoning their religion. They will never find success through this. Thus they are punished by failure (and other means) in this life. Hopefully the punishment will be an expiation for their sins and so they won't need to be punished additionally in the next life.

The opposite applies to non-Muslims. They are rewarded in this life and punished in the next life. Thus you see the good living condition and the like, in general, the success, etc, is a result of the good that they do, they are rewarded in this life, and will be punished upon resurrection.

[wilberhum]

It isn't hard to understand. The Muslims have left Islam, overall. They don't practise it. Muslims countries are lead based on a system other than the Shariah. This is a very serious crime, and if the conditions are met, would render the person a non-Muslim, even though he considers himself Muslim. The people generally aren't better. Major sins are common place. Unfortunately the 'bad; Muslim greatly out way the 'good' Muslims.

The Muslim is punished in this life. They are trying to find success by abandoning their religion. They will never find success through this. Thus they are punished by failure (and other means) in this life. Hopefully the punishment will be an expiation for their sins and so they won't need to be punished additionally in the next life.

The opposite applies to non-Muslims. They are rewarded in this life and punished in the next life. Thus you see the good living condition and the like, in general, the success, etc, is a result of the good that they do, they are rewarded in this life, and will be punished upon resurrection.

You too must not have been waring your tinfoil hat. :uuh:

If you are any place to Yellowstone National Park you are part of the "Great Satan".

[yigiter187]

It isn't hard to understand. The Muslims have left Islam, overall. They don't practise it. Muslims countries are lead based on a system other than the Shariah. This is a very serious crime, and if the conditions are met, would render the person a non-Muslim, even though he considers himself Muslim. The people generally aren't better. Major sins are common place. Unfortunately the 'bad; Muslim greatly out way the 'good' Muslims.

The Muslim is punished in this life. They are trying to find success by abandoning their religion. They will never find success through this. Thus they are punished by failure (and other means) in this life. Hopefully the punishment will be an expiation for their sins and so they won't need to be punished additionally in the next life.

The opposite applies to non-Muslims. They are rewarded in this life and punished in the next life. Thus you see the good living condition and the like, in general, the success, etc, is a result of the good that they do, they are rewarded in this life, and will be punished upon resurrection.

yes..you are totally right..ALLAH says in qoran that he will give men for what he workes,he gives according to how much men work...but if they work for this world he gives them(money,wealth,child etc),but he gives jannah who works for the other world inshallah..

[Malaikah]

You too must not have been waring your tinfoil hat. :uuh:

Excuse me? What is that meant to mean? I just explained to you something about my religion, the least you could do is give a comprehensible reply.

[guyabano]

You too must not have been waring your tinfoil hat. :uuh:

If you are any place to Yellowstone National Park you are part of the "Great Satan".

* ouch * , this must hurt ;D

[Malaikah]

If you are any place to Yellowstone National Park you are part of the "Great Satan".

* ouch * , this must hurt ;D

I wasn't going to reply to this, but I can't let that comment go past.

Anyone who knows how to use google should recognise that it would be impossible for me to be really "Swimming with thermus aquaticus in Yellowstone National Park", considering that thermus aquaticus is a micro-organism that lives in near-boiling water. :mmokay:

Ouch, indeed. :rollseyes

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The opposite applies to non-Muslims. They are rewarded in this life and punished in the next life. Thus you see the good living condition and the like, in general, the success, etc, is a result of the good that they do, they are rewarded in this life, and will be punished upon resurrection.

I'm happy with that, seeing as there is no afterlife...

Excuse me? What is that meant to mean? I just explained to you something about my religion, the least you could do is give a comprehensible reply.

Tinfoil hat

It's a common phrase.

Peace

[guyabano]

...should recognise that it would be impossible for me to be really "Swimming with thermus aquaticus in Yellowstone National Park", considering that thermus aquaticus is a micro-organism that lives in near-boiling water. :mmokay:

Ouch, indeed. :rollseyes

no kidding ??? I swear, I didn't know that.

[Malaikah]

I'm happy with that, seeing as there is no afterlife...

We shall see.:)

Tinfoil hat

It's a common phrase.

Thanks. It certainly isn't common where I come from. And I don't see how it applies to my post either.

[Yanal]

:sl: :sl:
Well i think the prophets(pbuh) were mostly living in the east and so islam coudn't get that much passed here but we should be happy and thankful to Allah(Swt) because at least their are mosques and some muslims and that some of the cities or countries do not even allow that:eek:

[Joe98]

If you want to know what are the fundaments and heritage of Western World, you should read Shakespeare, listen to Beethoven, see Rembrandt's paintings.....etc

Each of these things are against Islam and so Muslims will never study them.

When Europe becomes Islamic all the great paintings of history must be destroyed because the great bulk of them have people or Christianity as their subjects.

I rememeber the Afghani Muslims destroying the great statues in the name of Islam. The statues of Europe are next.

-

[Woodrow]

Each of these things are against Islam and so Muslims will never study them.

When Europe becomes Islamic all the great paintings of history must be destroyed because the great bulk of them have people or Christianity as their subjects.

I rememeber the Afghani Muslims destroying the great statues in the name of Islam. The statues of Europe are next.

-

I think you will find that some Muslims have studied them as subjects. An academic study is not necessarily for the purpose of enjoyment or for agreement. Understanding and a desire to understand does not require agreement.

[snakelegs]

I rememeber the Afghani Muslims destroying the great statues in the name of Islam. The statues of Europe are next.

afghanistan has been muslim for hundreds of years - and the statues remained. what conclusions, does this fact lead you to?

[Joe98]

afghanistan has been muslim for hundreds of years - and the statues remained. what conclusions, does this fact lead you to?

That the Taliban are not Muslims! :D

-

[snakelegs]

they are muslims, but i do not neccessarily think they had the best islamic education.....

[AB517]

Each of these things are against Islam and so Muslims will never study them.

When Europe becomes Islamic all the great paintings of history must be destroyed because the great bulk of them have people or Christianity as their subjects.

I rememeber the Afghani Muslims destroying the great statues in the name of Islam. The statues of Europe are next.

-

Beethoven? Against Islam ... is that true?

If it is ... this is why we fear Islam and any other fundamental religion.
Allah inspired the leaders of USA to look at things totally different.
Separation of church and state.

Question is where is the perfect middle ground. I see running a country on 1 religious idea as a bad thing ... so does God ... he knows the limitations of any religion ... just look around the world and at world history.

Running a country on no-god ... well that is equally as bad.

When a bible thumper and a Jehad-ist …hug ... that’s when things will improve ... that is the last judgment ... the gap will be closed... atonement completed.

This simple notion can and should include all religious people. If you don’t understand this … the hate will continue … satan will be around.

[Isambard]

Beethoven? Against Islam ... is that true?

If it is ... this is why we fear Islam and any other fundamental religion.
Allah inspired the leaders of USA to look at things totally different.
Separation of church and state.

Question is where is the perfect middle ground. I see running a country on 1 religious idea as a bad thing ... so does God ... he knows the limitations of any religion ... just look around the world and at world history.

Running a country on no-god ... well that is equally as bad.

When a bible thumper and a Jehad-ist …hug ... that’s when things will improve ... that is the last judgment ... the gap will be closed... atonement completed.

This simple notion can and should include all religious people. If you don’t understand this … the hate will continue … satan will be around.

How is a no-god state equally as bad as a theocracy?

Theocracies tend to be brutal, violent, xenophobic and oppose any sort of progress. How does a secular state compare?

[wilberhum]

How is a no-god state equally as bad as a theocracy?

Theocracies tend to be brutal, violent, xenophobic and oppose any sort of progress. How does a secular state compare?

My assumption "no-god" was referring to communism. Not to secular democracy.

To that I would agree a theocracy is just as bad as communism.

[YusufNoor]

It isn't hard to understand. The Muslims have left Islam, overall. They don't practise it. Muslims countries are lead based on a system other than the Shariah. This is a very serious crime, and if the conditions are met, would render the person a non-Muslim, even though he considers himself Muslim. The people generally aren't better. Major sins are common place. Unfortunately the 'bad; Muslim greatly out way the 'good' Muslims.

The Muslim is punished in this life. They are trying to find success by abandoning their religion. They will never find success through this. Thus they are punished by failure (and other means) in this life. Hopefully the punishment will be an expiation for their sins and so they won't need to be punished additionally in the next life.

The opposite applies to non-Muslims. They are rewarded in this life and punished in the next life. Thus you see the good living condition and the like, in general, the success, etc, is a result of the good that they do, they are rewarded in this life, and will be punished upon resurrection.

Peace be upon those who follow guidance,

Malaikah wrote an excellant post, however, it seems to be a wasted effort. BEFORE we can deal with

Why Islam is not Acceptable to West!!!

we need to deal with

Why Islam is not Acceptable to Muslims!!!

THEN and ONLY then we there be any chance of "THE WEST" accepting Islam! although many in the west ARE accepting Islam, the hard part is trying to find Muslims that are actually following Islam! :exhausted

:w:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I think you will find that some Muslims have studied them as subjects.

I would guess very few people born into Islam in an Islamic country would choose to study Western literature, music or painting. I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if as many as 5% of the Muslims on this board could say anything interesting about any of those artists.

An academic study is not necessarily for the purpose of enjoyment or for agreement. Understanding and a desire to understand does not require agreement.

No, but academic study is hugely valuable for gaining knowledge. Muslims told from an early age to avoid 'imitating the kuffar' and banned from listening to music or having portraits are unlikely to develop much intellectual curiosity about the societies that others live in. Many Muslims are only interested in science to the extent that it can bolster arguments for the veracity of the Qur'an or provide nifty technology. If the Islamic world used its combined intellect in anything other than a passive, subservient way then it could begin to catch up with the West, and might even become a global hotbed of learning once again.

One big reason why Islam is unacceptable to the West is that many Westerners suspect that Islam is culturally hostile to free inquiry. I've said this before and been reprimanded for it, but every time I'm on this forum I see more and more evidence to support it. The Qur'an encourages Muslims to seek knowledge on many occasions; how many truly do?

Peace

[Amadeus85]

I think that islam is acceptable in West, but islamic imperialism should be stopped here.

[Skywalker]

I would guess very few people born into Islam in an Islamic country would choose to study Western literature, music or painting. I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if as many as 5% of the Muslims on this board could say anything interesting about any of those artists.

I don't know if Egypt counts as an Islamic country (we're 96% Muslim but are governed by secular law -- actually it's French emergency law :confused:)...nevertheless we have countless numbers of university students studying fine arts, etc. A lot of people take an interest in that kind of stuff, certainly a lot more than you think.

One big reason why Islam is unacceptable to the West is that many Westerners suspect that Islam is culturally hostile to free inquiry. I've said this before and been reprimanded for it, but every time I'm on this forum I see more and more evidence to support it. The Qur'an encourages Muslims to seek knowledge on many occasions; how many truly do?

I can agree with that statement, and all I can say is that right now...we're weak. The gloablization of the western culture and ideals (materialism, neverending entertainment, etc.) has had a profound effect on Muslims on a global scale, making them confused about what's really important in life. If all Muslims of today followed Islam the way that they're supposed to, the global Islamic community would definetely not be in the state that it's in now. Sadly to say though, a lot of the modern day Muslim youth and adults have forgotten what Islam is, don't practice anything that it teaches, and (this might come as a shock to you) don't even know what it teaches! They've never even been introduced to it because their (secularly-oriented) parents didn't think it was necessary. There are a lot of people like this, heck I'd say the majority of the Egyptian population is like this.

The strange thing is that on one side, we're declining steadily, losing our Islamic identity, our morals, our values, ... but on the other side, we're also growing. A lot of younger people are also taking a fresh new interest in Islam. We can only hope that more and more people see the light and follow it. May Allah guide the Muslim ummah to knowledge and piety. Ameen.

[Muezzin]

Each of these things are against Islam and so Muslims will never study them.

Um.. No. I've studied Shakespeare and appreciate his works as the great pieces of literature they are. I have not studied in detail Rembrandt and Beethoven, but this is due more to my own taste (or lack thereof, ha!), but I can appreciate art and even the work that goes into classical musical compositions. I suppose everbody else who isn't into fine art or classical music must also be, by your implication, anti-European/anti-American/anti-Australasian or otherwise a pain in the neck.

I fail to see your point. I also fail to see how literature, art and every single form of music is against Islam. Perhaps you've misunderstood a ruling?

When Europe becomes Islamic all the great paintings of history must be destroyed because the great bulk of them have people or Christianity as their subjects.

Scare-monger much?

I rememeber the Afghani Muslims destroying the great statues in the name of Islam. The statues of Europe are next.

-

As above.

I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if as many as 5% of the Muslims on this board could say anything interesting about any of those artists.

What percentage of people on the street could say something interesting about fine art? My point being, it has little to do with religion and everything to do with individual taste.

I can agree with that statement, and all I can say is that right now...we're weak. The gloablization of the western culture and ideals (materialism, neverending entertainment, etc.) has had a profound effect on Muslims on a global scale, making them confused about what's really important in life. If all Muslims of today followed Islam the way that they're supposed to, the global Islamic community would definetely not be in the state that it's in now. Sadly to say though, a lot of the modern day Muslim youth and adults have forgotten what Islam is, don't practice anything that it teaches, and (this might come as a shock to you) don't even know what it teaches! They've never even been introduced to it because their (secularly-oriented) parents didn't think it was necessary. There are a lot of people like this, heck I'd say the majority of the Egyptian population is like this.

The strange thing is that on one side, we're declining steadily, losing our Islamic identity, our morals, our values, ... but on the other side, we're also growing. A lot of younger people are also taking a fresh new interest in Islam. We can only hope that more and more people see the light and follow it. May Allah guide the Muslim ummah to knowledge and piety. Ameen.

Ameen.

To add to what you've said, I await the next Islamic Renaissance, in terms of religious fortitude which leads to and informs scientific, artistic and literary progress. To make this process happen, we as individuals have to stop complaining and actually contribute, big-time, to human progress in these fields. Czgibson is right when he says:

If the Islamic world used its combined intellect in anything other than a passive, subservient way then it could begin to catch up with the West, and might even become a global hotbed of learning once again.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Nicely said.


Gibson, your here learning about Islam, does that mean you like it? If we dont like something, it doesnt mean we havent learned about it. I mean I've written better papers than people this is ok for. Does that sound like disinterest to you? I happen to love reading plays and to look at different artwork. Whats your real point in saying all this really? Honestly?

[silkworm]

Gibson, Politically can you tell me why weren't the Moslems were labelled as "Terrorists" before 1989 and why after the fall of USSR???

Why the Western Powers dumped "Free World" slogan which was Excessively been used throughout 1975 to 1989???

Why NATO was not disbanded after the collapse of Soviet Union, which was organized in the first place to counter "Warsaw Pact" Countries???

[Keltoi]

Gibson, Politically can you tell me why weren't the Moslems were labelled as "Terrorists" before 1989 and why after the fall of USSR???

Why the Western Powers dumped "Free World" slogan which was Excessively been used throughout 1975 to 1989???

Why NATO was not disbanded after the collapse of Soviet Union, which was organized in the first place to counter "Warsaw Pact" Countries???

Are you suggesting no Muslim was considered a terrorist prior to 1989? That is completely false.

Why did the West dump the "Free World" slogan? Probably because it was intended to counter Soviet actions in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. With the fall of the Soviet Union, we were all hoping Russia would join the ranks of the "Free World". Unfortunately that seems to be less likely with each passing year.


As for NATO, I don't see it as being particularly effective, but I don't see the U.N. as being all that effective either. However, I suppose any agreement between nations to face common threats is a good thing, even if it is a paper tiger.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Gibson, your here learning about Islam, does that mean you like it? If we dont like something, it doesnt mean we havent learned about it.

The difference is that I'm not actively discouraged from studying Islam.

I mean I've written better papers than people this is ok for. Does that sound like disinterest to you?

I'm not sure what you mean.

I happen to love reading plays and to look at different artwork. Whats your real point in saying all this really? Honestly?

I'm pointing out one reason why Islam is not acceptable to the West. The Buddha statutes being blown up by the Taliban constitute an example of cultural vandalism that is totally abhorrent to Westerners, and while such an action is not necessarily representative of mainstream Islam, many Westerners believe (rightly or wrongly) that it is.

Peace

[silkworm]

Gibson Bro: You are mixing Religions with Politics, you need to keep them separate, as they are. You are talking about Taliban but are forgetting the fact the "Talibans" were organizsed by US sponsored CIA agents who wanted a strong force to face the Soviets in Afghanistan.

You are also forgetting that Moslems "do not" agree with their "extremist views", you have also failed to keep in mind that "personal interpretation" of Qur'anic verses stands different than the universally understood message as given by Qu'ran.

Prophet Mohammad pbuh strictly passed the orders to not to harm women, children, un-armed men, and men who laid down their weapons, now this is a very simple and clear message - there is no hidden message in this. Allah says to respect life of your own and the life of others - So "suicide bombers" who are doing this have nothing to do with Islam as "suicide" is also said to be "Haram" (taboo).

Actually, the Western men are still clinging to the ideas presented by the first white man who copied the Qur'an and did a translation on it who was himself not "fluent" in Arabic.
I can post here some excerpts from Victor Hugo and others who had distorted readings from Qur'an.

[wilberhum]

You are talking about Taliban but are forgetting the fact the "Talibans" were organizsed by US sponsored CIA agents who wanted a strong force to face the Soviets in Afghanistan.

We sent some money. Hardly organizsed.
I have said before the US keeps making the same stupid mistake. They keep thinking the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They keep forgetting that when the common enemy is gone, you simply have a new, and stronger, enemy.

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: dont believe all you see on TV, and i wouldnt watch it too much its not healthy :sl:

[wilberhum]

:sl: dont believe all you see on TV, and i wouldnt watch it too much its not healthy :sl:

Right! Ignore facts. Head in sand knowledge? :-\

[Haidar_Abbas]

:sl: i dont accept ANYTHING stated by a secularist as fact, its why theres uliema alhamdulillah :sl: end

[wilberhum]

:sl: i dont accept ANYTHING stated by a secularist as fact, its why theres uliema alhamdulillah :sl: end

What is the old saying.
"Ignorance is Bliss".
Some people are really full of "Bliss". :confused:

[Haidar_Abbas]

im not falling into this trap , moving on..........

[Isambard]

:sl: i dont accept ANYTHING stated by a secularist as fact, its why theres uliema alhamdulillah :sl: end

Yep, its a massive conspiracy o0o0o

Make sure to stay away from manuels, they are secular!:hiding:

[ranma1/2]

Yep, its a massive conspiracy o0o0o

Make sure to stay away from manuels, they are secular!:hiding:

so is math, science etc....

That pretty much shows his mindset.

[asadxyz]

What is the old saying.
"Ignorance is Bliss".
Some people are really full of "Bliss". :confused:

Ignorant person is the one
-Porn monger
-so irrational that thinks design is possible without designer.

[ranma1/2]

What is the old saying.
"Ignorance is Bliss".
Some people are really full of "Bliss". :confused:

well full of something.

[Isambard]

Ignorant person is the one
-Porn monger
-so irrational that thinks design is possible without designer.

Talk about a red herring lol

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

You guys r the lowest of low, turning something as simple as what he said into a argument...
Obviously u have nothing better to do. You think its a diss upon u if he prefers people of Islam rather than those who are totally against Islam. Talk about red-herring :rollseyes

Dont preach if u cant practice

[barney]

Now i'm going to have to research it, but I have read that the prophet ordered no Qurans to be carried into the land of the kuffar in case they fell into the wrong hands.

So if thats true, then Indeed Islam is not acceptable to the west....because it was never meant to be accepted there by the prophet.

[ahsan28]

Now i'm going to have to research it, but I have read that the prophet ordered no Qurans to be carried into the land of the kuffar in case they fell into the wrong hands.

So if thats true, then Indeed Islam is not acceptable to the west....because it was never meant to be accepted there by the prophet.

Where have you read this? could you kindly give some source?

But please don't quote Salman Rushdie, he can do anything for $ :D

[asadxyz]

Now i'm going to have to research it, but I have read that the prophet ordered no Qurans to be carried into the land of the kuffar in case they fell into the wrong hands.

So if thats true, then Indeed Islam is not acceptable to the west....because it was never meant to be accepted there by the prophet.

Why do the agnostics and atheists have so irrational thinking i.e claiming without proof/evidence ??
Is this some in-built problem ?

[ranma1/2]

Why do the agnostics and atheists have so irrational thinking i.e claiming without proof/evidence ??
Is this some in-built problem ?

perhaps some but the same could be said about you and others.

[asadxyz]

perhaps some but the same could be said about you and others.

Give the evidence that something can come into being without any designer.
What an absurd idea!!
I have never come such empty minded idea in my life.

[guyabano]

Give the evidence that something can come into being without any designer.
What an absurd idea!!
I have never come such empty minded idea in my life.

For the designer, Atheists use another word: Evolution and mutation

A God is not needed

[guyabano]

Why do the agnostics and atheists have so irrational thinking i.e claiming without proof/evidence ??
Is this some in-built problem ?

Irrational thinking is, what muslims and christians do: 'Everything which we cannot explain is magic and therefor must be a god'.

[ranma1/2]

Give the evidence that something can come into being without any designer.
What an absurd idea!!
I have never come such empty minded idea in my life.

so by your logic god was designed?
Oh wait he always existed.....

sigh...

[ahsan28]

so by your logic god was designed?
Oh wait he always existed.....
sigh...

Sighhhhhhhhhhhh

Perhaps the matter of faith, rather than logic :D

[barney]

Totally priceless!:D

[barney]

Abdullah Ibn 'Umar relates:… 'The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "Do not take the Qur'an on a journey with you, for I am afraid lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy"'

Muslim, III, No. 4606; also 4607, 4608; Bukhari, 4.233.


Sorry on the delay with the source...Been busy.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

The Qur'an and Sunnah should be able to be seen in our character...even if it's a little bit. Plain and simple.

[asadxyz]

so by your logic god was designed?
Oh wait he always existed.....

sigh...

Another absurdity.
God is supernatural.How can you compare it with this universe which is tangible and under natural laws?

[YusufNoor]

Ignorant person is the one
-Porn monger
-so irrational that thinks design is possible without designer.

:heated: :heated: :heated:

:sl:

you do realize brother, that Islam 101 would have reminded you that:

the Messenger of Allah(pbuh) came to perfect good manners, enjoin the good and forbid evil.

if you can't answer with something better, at least let's not be rude!

just a reminder to myself and others...

:w:

[Pygoscelis]

Taking us back on topic and to the OP...

The OP makes one curious assumption, and it underlines why the west is REALLY afraid of Islam.

All of the things listed are only a threat to the west if Islam intends to take over and destroy society as it now exists. A threat of destroying society as we know it is certainly something to be afraid of.

Now lets look at individual matters. And I'm not going to pretend to share moral views with the rest of you, as it is apparent I'm quite on my own here.

1. Islam prohibits alcohol - thus it will stop all business relating to alcohol [Industry, Bars, Night Clubs, etc] - Billion dollars of business will be closed.

There is nothing wrong with modest consumption of alcohol or other drugs. And you are correct to assume that we will resist you if you try to force us to ban it.

2. Islam prohibits free sex, prostitutions - again billion dollars of sex, and prostitutes industries will be closed

There is nothing wrong with prostitution or erotica. If you don't like it, don't buy it. And again, you are right to assume that we will resist you if you try to force us to ban it.

3. Islam prohibits commercialization of women - thus billion dollars of putting naked or half naked women in advertisements will be lost.

You are going to tell us what we can and can not wear? What we can and can not put in magazines? You plan to steal our freedom and force us to obey your commands and you think us wrong to oppose you?

4. Islam prohibits interest in Banking - thus all Financial Institutions will be closed and change to Islamic Banking Systems.

And there goes the economy.

5. Islam prohibits injustice - thus the whole legal systems of western world need to be changed - Lawyer Firms will be closed.

Justice means no lawyers? I assume that means no judges too? What a weird system you must have in mind.

6.Islam prohibits terrorisms and war - thus billion dollars of defense industries will be closed.

You must be joking here. You really think we in the west fear islam because it OPPOSES terrorism?

7. Islam prohibits rocks dancing - thus billion dollars music /rock festivals will be closed.

I didn't know rocks could dance. You should take that act to the circus. There is nothing wrong with dancing by the way. If you don't like it don't do it. Don't try to tell us we can't.

8. Islam prohibits gambling - thus billion dollars casinos will be closed.

There goes my weekend poker nights.

9. Islam prohibits free sex - thus billion dollars porno sex films industry will be closed.

Didn't we already do this one?

10. Islam prohibits abuse of drugs - thus billion dollars of illegal drugs business will be lost.

And this one?

[guyabano]

Honestly, I don't consider Islam as a threat, anyway. These words have already been proclaimed, before Internet exist, and still nothing changed.
Christianity claim it for them, Muslims rufute it, and vice versa. Everything stays as and where it is. So, summa summarum, nothing new !

Anyway, I think, the question should be more 'Can Islam adapt to the west' ?

The answer is yes. I would really like to know, how much muslims teenies listen to (haraam) music, play games on XBox, have music on their iPods, adopt western styles, and don't pray anymore 5x a day.
Just go to London in a big mall, and look how much young muslim teenies hang around, even though, on every corner comes music out of some loudspeaker

I think, the next generation will tell us.

[zarhad]

why would islam want to conform to the west...plus the west does feel threatened by islam just as many others said, because they are afriad to loose there achol drinking womanizing, no marriage, fatherless children ways...
not to say that are all are like that...whats wrong with living a simple and peacefull life dedicated to god...why is the west having a hard time admitting they are not as important in the universe as they thought they were...

[zarhad]

i would rather my children not fit in and sit at home on weekends then be out smoking drugs and drinking achol...it just seems like a better route...

[guyabano]

Honestly, where I live, there is absolutely not Islam presence. Not only one hijab is walking down the streets. And this 'Islam is the fastest growing religion'-thingy is a myth. Islam or Christianity didn't gain much more converts than before. The only reason, why Islam is dominant in african countries is because of the birth rate. Islam in USA loose as much people as they win on the other side.
I'm pretty amazed, that on the whole forum, nobody ever mention the words of leaving Islam.
I'm pretty sure, that you will launch a third world war prior to islamisation of the west. All the good values and rights, freedom of speech and expression, we acquired during centuries, nobody here will give them up.

whats wrong with living a simple and peacefull life dedicated to god

Because a lot of people don't believe in the existance of a god

edit:

why is the west having a hard time admitting they are not as important in the universe as they thought they were..

sorry, but this question I can also adress to you, just exchange the word 'west' with 'muslims'

[Sarada]

why would islam want to conform to the west...plus the west does feel threatened by islam just as many others said, because they are afriad to loose there achol drinking womanizing, no marriage, fatherless children ways...
not to say that are all are like that...whats wrong with living a simple and peacefull life dedicated to god...why is the west having a hard time admitting they are not as important in the universe as they thought they were...

Salaam Zarhad,

I take extreme umbrage with your remarks.

Moral behaviour is not a monopoly granted only to Muslims

People of ALL religions, and even people who have no religion have a sense of moral decency.

Conversely, ALL of the very same people I mentioned above are capable of immoral behavior. Muslims are not immune to this either.

A secular society that accepts people of all beliefs is the only society that I care to live in.

This 'holier than thou' attitude that some people have, is very unattractive.

[ahsan28]

Moral behaviour is not a monopoly granted only to Muslims
Conversely, Muslims are not immune to this either.

I agree and would rather say that the Muslims are more vulnerable to immoral conduct cz we believe that the satan chases us more rather than other communities in order to increase his followers amongst Muslims, so we have to be protect ourselves. We the Muslims are a bit sensitive, when it comes to moral issues, cz of the limitations imposed on us by the religion. So Islam and the West having liberal values are divergent to each other and this is reality.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i would rather my children not fit in and sit at home on weekends then be out smoking drugs and drinking achol...it just seems like a better route...

i agree mashaAllah

[Sarada]

=ahsan28;827365

So Islam and the West having liberal values are divergent to each other and this is reality.

Yes, this is reality. And there are Muslims and non-Muslims who wish to impose their values on others.That is where we get into problems.

In our secular society, people are free to chose the priorities of their values. No 0ne has the right to impose his/her values on others.

That's the way I like it. Let's just peacefully co-exist, and maybe even learn to like each other as human beings.

[ahsan28]

Let's just peacefully co-exist, and maybe even learn to like each other as human beings.

Agreed.

[Pygoscelis]

why would islam want to conform to the west

Only muslims who come to the west should have to conform to western laws.
And even then, its not like we force muslim immigrants to listen to music or go dancing or drink beer.

...plus the west does feel threatened by islam just as many others said, because they are afriad to loose there achol drinking womanizing, no marriage, fatherless children ways...

But won't that only happening if muslims TAKE OVER and force their ways on the rest of us? I've got no problem with a muslim living next door and doing this thing. He can even chant or recite or whatever and make noise every now and then and I probably won't complain.

But if he tries to force ME to stop drinking, dancing, etc, that's when It'll come to blows.

not to say that are all are like that...whats wrong with living a simple and peacefull life dedicated to god...

Nothing. Thats fine, so long as you keep it to yourself you won't have a problem with me.

why is the west having a hard time admitting they are not as important in the universe as they thought they were...

Why do you think the west believes they are "important to the universe"? If anything an atheist/secular society thinks they are less "important to the universe". Its you theists who think the universe was created for you and that the creator of the universe holds you as his most important creation.

[silkworm]

Moslems have some grieviences against US, BUT they were never so large as to make them to attack US.

Please note that according to new research out of the 187 countries of the world THE US forces are present in some 120 countries.

Bottom line is: You stop your war-mongers and we stop our double-dealers.

AND OBL was America's choice against USSR in Afghanistan and not ours.

9/11 Was not a Moslem event against USA, IT WAS your own right wing militia.

[ahsan28]

AND OBL was America's choice against USSR in Afghanistan and not ours.

He is still their all time favourite :D

[barney]

9/11 Was not a Moslem event against USA, IT WAS your own right wing militia.

Thats not what Bin Liner says...or indeed the birth records of the murderers.

C'mon, If you have to have a conspiracy...go with the flow! It was Mossad and Walt Disney (RIP).

[Shukri]

Ok your peice is very good, but the thing is that you have to be wise with your words. Because your kind of being stereotypical by saying that the West is all agaisnt Islam, but the thing is that there is good people too out there. So please don't take my words harshly just take them as umm... a peice of advice.

[noorahmad]

well talking about 9/11, you people should watch Fahrenheit 9/11.
Secondly, the US says that bin laden is hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan,where does he get the technology to make these videos?(electricity in caves??? )
Thirdly, I've heard that bin laden using satellite phone, the license for these phones are issued by only two companies in the world, Thompson and another French company.(not sure of that, heard it from a fren)
I would not say that Islam is not acceptable to the west, it would rather be by all those who consider themselves as modern and westernized ppl, at school, im the racist, the extremist just because i don't smoke pots, drink alcohol and accept every bull**** from the west.

[Woodrow]

I keep hearing people say Islam is not accepted in the West. What I do not see is any specific names of any countries where it is not accepted.

I can not think of any country that does not have Muslims and Mosques. True we may be a minority in some, but on local levels how many countries persecute local Muslims or try to curtail Islamic worship?

Of course I can only speak of where I live and I can say that those of us who are Muslim are not treated any different from any other person living here in Austin.

In order to correct any wrongs that are done to us we need to first identify the wrong and correctly identify who is perpetrating it. I think when we say we are not acceptable to the West, the statement is too broad.

Keep in mind it has much to do with were you live. Saudi Arabia is the West in Relationship to China.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I keep hearing people say Islam is not accepted in the West. What I do not see is any specific names of any countries where it is not accepted.

I can not think of any country that does not have Muslims and Mosques. True we may be a minority in some, but on local levels how many countries persecute local Muslims or try to curtail Islamic worship?

I can't think of any that do so through legislation, but there are always individual incidents to consider. Maybe people who say Islam is not acceptable to the West have these sorts of incidents in mind.

Vandalising mosques and causing physical attacks on Muslims for their faith are obviously actions that should have no place in a civilised society.

It's also possible that the original post in this thread was about why the West would be unlikely to convert en masse to Islam.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings,



I can't think of any that do so through legislation, but there are always individual incidents to consider. Maybe people who say Islam is not acceptable to the West have these sorts of incidents in mind.

Vandalising mosques and causing physical attacks on Muslims for their faith are obviously actions that should have no place in a civilised society.

It's also possible that the original post in this thread was about why the West would be unlikely to convert en masse to Islam.

Peace

Very good and valid points. That is one way of seeing things and it is a very probable view that is intended.

[NoName55]

I can't think of any that do so through legislation,

Turkey comes to mind as do some Indian States, some republics of former soviet union too,

the only 2 truly free countries where Islam is practiced freely are Uk & USA both alleged to be its mortal enemies contrary to facts on the ground.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Turkey comes to mind as do some Indian States, some republics of former soviet union too,

Wow - didn't know that.

the only 2 truly free countries where Islam is practiced freely are Uk & USA both alleged to be its mortal enemies contrary to facts on the ground.

What about other European countries like France, Germany, the Netherlands or Italy? Are Muslims not allowed there?

Peace

[NoName55]

What about other European countries like France, Germany, the Netherlands or Italy? Are Muslims not allowed there?

allowed but abused and pushed around from pillar to post is not quite the treatment I would call humane whereas in UK & US we can seek help from authorites against abuse and get it

[Woodrow]

Turkey comes to mind as do some Indian States, some republics of former soviet union too,

the only 2 truly free countries where Islam is practiced freely are Uk & USA both alleged to be its mortal enemies contrary to facts on the ground.

I can only speak of what I see personally here in Austin. Perhaps it is because Austin is very diverse. But, as a Muslim living in Austin I have as much freedom to practice Islam as any other person has of practicing their faith. We are all free to practice as we believe. There are no laws here that violate my living as a Muslim. The only problem is that here a Muslim has to truly take full responsibility as there are no laws protecting us from Fitnah or from performing immoral acts. The laws do not promote any religion nor do they prevent any religion.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

allowed but abused and pushed around from pillar to post is not quite the treatment I would call humane whereas in UK & US we can seek help from authorites against abuse and get it

Fair enough, but are you talking about legislation that persecutes Muslims or just individual acts?

Peace

[NoName55]

Greetings,


Fair enough, but are you talking about legislation that persecutes Muslims or just individual acts?

Peace

western euorope (excluding Turkey) I dont know their legislation, all I know is the treatment meted out by individuals as well as institutions

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


Fair enough, but are you talking about legislation that persecutes Muslims or just individual acts?

Peace

There does seem to be quite a bit of legislation limiting the locations and number of Mosques permitted in some European countries.

Then there are the laws about the Hijab. some understandable, others blatantly anti-Islamic.

[Sheba]

The original post was to state the fact why the west would not want to accept Islam. It would not want to because most of the things that cause problems in our society would not be welcome...drug/alcohol abuse, gambling etc;

Anyone who says that these are not problems of the west has their head buried in the sand. You only need to look around and see the problems that EVERYONE faces...not just Muslims.

Because these vices are widely accepted as "normal" they have to go a long way for us to consider them a problem. God/Allah (One and the same) is giving us advice and asking us to abstain. The freedom to choose is ours, after all there is no compulsion in religion as far as the Quran is concerned.

It is therefore understandable that this, according to a Muslim is an ideal way of life and one to be shared with others. If there was a country that practised Islam according to God's teachings of the Quran that country would be the most sought after place to live in. Unfortunately there is NO such country currently in existance.

God's ideal way of life can therefore only be practised by the few individuals who follow the Quran as it should be followed. God knows our nature best, as He created us. Therefore He knows our flaws and tries to stear us clear of situations that will cause us harm.

I am deeply ashamed of the way us so called civilised people treat each other...the violence, the abuse. Our street are no longer a safe place for us to walk or our children to play. Is this what we want...is this a good place for us to live? This is life without God, without morals, without compassion and without love. Everything is based on the "I want and what about me" culture.
Is this what we truly want for our children?

Whatever religion there are bad people..but there are also good people. Belonging to a religion does not make a person good or bad, but the true teachings of a religion can make that person a better person for themselves and others. We are all human beings and as such one community. Would it not be better to try to understand each other with love and compassion rather than with violence and hate?

People say they want to be free, but when society is crumbling in the way it is I see a people enslaved...trapped in a world of misery where violence, abuse, war, hate is the norm.....do any of us really want this?

I would like to be free, free to live in a world where we are all free to practise the religion/or not, of our choice. A world where morals and kindness is the order of the day. When we can leave our homes without fear of getting mugged, shot or stabbed. When children were just that and not thugs on the street corner.

Our society is rotting and people seem to accept this in the name of "freedom"....when will we realise we are all slaves to our greed, selfishness and importance.

[Isambard]

Greetings,



I can't think of any that do so through legislation, but there are always individual incidents to consider. Maybe people who say Islam is not acceptable to the West have these sorts of incidents in mind.

Vandalising mosques and causing physical attacks on Muslims for their faith are obviously actions that should have no place in a civilised society.

It's also possible that the original post in this thread was about why the West would be unlikely to convert en masse to Islam.

Peace

I dont think individual attacks are a good measure of how "un-Islamic" a country may be unless you could demostrate on a graph or thru stats that Muslims suffered many times more than the next targeted minority.

From what I know, the "West" is much more anti-women, anti-latino (US), anti-Black (US, Canada), anti-atheist (Certain state laws), than it is anti-muslim.

[guyabano]

What about other European countries like France, Germany, the Netherlands or Italy? Are Muslims not allowed there?

Peace

Of course, there are muslims allowed there and also very welcomed. France just has a veil ban in Schools, Germany, Netherlands not.
Belgium is more Problematic. Specially the Flemish part of Belgium is a troublemaker with the conservative party 'Vlaamse Blok', They plan to ban Islam completely

[NoName55]

God's ideal way of life can therefore only be practised by the few individuals who follow the Quran as it should be followed. God knows our nature best, as He created us. Therefore He knows our flaws and tries to stear us clear of situations that will cause us harm.

But fails?

I was liking the post until that line. wa salam alaikum

[NoName55]

Of course, there are muslims allowed there and also very welcomed. France just has a veil ban in Schools, Germany, Netherlands not.
Belgium is more Problematic. Specially the Flemish part of Belgium is a troublemaker with the conservative party 'Vlaamse Blok', They plan to ban Islam completely

veil or head covering scarves etc.?

[Sheba]

But fails?

I was liking the post until that line. wa salam alaikum

No, God does not fail us..it is we who fail Him with our weakness. After all, God does not force us to follow His laws. The right way is pointed out to those who wish to follow.

Peace.

[NoName55]

^^ okay, thank you for replying and peace to you also

[AvarAllahNoor]

It is acceptable. It's just a handful of nutters who don't practice tolerance of other peoples religion that spoil it.

[NoName55]

It is acceptable. It's just a handful of nutters who don't practice tolerance of other peoples religion that spoil it.

^^^ ah that "explains" Balkan massacres, permanent occupations of Kashmir, Chechnya and Palestine as well as barbed wire fences surrounding former E. Pakistan Now Bangladesh

[Keltoi]

The Balkan massacres occurred as a result of two distinct ethnic and religious groups attempting to form one whole. It seldom works, and usually results in the kind of bloodshed we saw in the Balkans. Another example would be what happened in Rwanda. As for the others, they are hardly "Western" related events.

[NoName55]

:) we ought to ask for title change (to replace "West" with "World")

[AvarAllahNoor]

^^^ ah that "explains" Balkan massacres, permanent occupations of Kashmir, Chechnya and Palestine as well as barbed wire fences surrounding former E. Pakistan Now Bangladesh

Well I was talking about England USA. What happened in Balkans was not nice. As for Kashmir, I agree it should be given back to Muslims, and then us Sikhs can have ours too....

[NoName55]

Well I was talking about England USA. What happened in Balkans was not nice. As for Kashmir, I agree it should be given back to Muslims, and then us Sikhs can have ours too....

Thank you! Wa salam (and peace)

[Pygoscelis]

allowed but abused and pushed around from pillar to post is not quite the treatment I would call humane whereas in UK & US we can seek help from authorites against abuse and get it

New Zealand? Australia? Canada? Japan? Mexico? Brazil? Um.... a few dozen more?

[Pygoscelis]

From what I know, the "West" is much more anti-women, anti-latino (US), anti-Black (US, Canada), anti-atheist (Certain state laws), than it is anti-muslim.

How is Canada anti-black? Canada was the destination of the underground railway, never had slavery, and today has too few black people to really villify them. Natives on the other hand Canada has been very unfairly against throughout its history.

[NoName55]

New Zealand? Australia? Canada?

did not want to comment on them as they are equally as nasty to their own Aborigine populations (even worse they slaughtered them) if any muslim goes there is asking for it. (canada is marginally better than New Zealand & Australia as many racists who are forced to be civil to us by English law emigrate there and when they find we are there already, can you imagine their reactions?

Japan?

they did far worse to their chinese neighbors so emigrate to such people at your peril

Mexico?

do not know anything about them except that they are strict catholics and regard us as the infidels , so do not go there

Brazil?

well they along with Argies are given the "honorary" title of "wannabe Nazis" by me, as they made a habit of sheltering known murderers

Um.... a few dozen more?

yes! but then I will have to include some "Muslim" countries too (which will break my heart)

also I do not know about anti-Muslim legislation in any of above mentioned countries

[wilberhum]

Japan?
they did far worse to their chinese neighbors so emigrate to such people at your peril

Now I will come in on that one. The Japan of 60-70 years ago is not the Japan of today.
I have lived on 4 countries. One year in Japan.
They are the kindest people I have ever been around. They are allways pleased to help a stranger and my wife and I were never treated with anything but respect.
Tokyo is one of the most dangerous place in Japan, but still safer than any other place I have lived.
I have nothing less than total respect for the Jananese.

[*Hana*]

Ummmmm, How exactly did you get this:

Now i'm going to have to research it, but I have read that the prophet ordered no Qurans to be carried into the land of the kuffar in case they fell into the wrong hands.

So if thats true, then Indeed Islam is not acceptable to the west....because it was never meant to be accepted there by the prophet.

From this:

Abdullah Ibn 'Umar relates:… 'The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "Do not take the Qur'an on a journey with you, for I am afraid lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy"'

Muslim, III, No. 4606; also 4607, 4608; Bukhari, 4.233.

Really, if you're going to make comments like that you need to research further so you can actually understand the quote rather than putting your own twist on it. What you are trying to insinuate is nowhere near the truth. Anyway, you took the time to find the hadith numbers, please take the time to read them properly. :)

With peace.
Hana

[kwolney01]

I agree with you. Inshallah things will change..

[NoName55]

edit

[al-muslimah]

originally posted by : Guyabano

Yes, and thats why the West is without wars, has good stable social security systems, hightec medecine, good running industry, export goods worldwide, high level of eductation...and and and...

On the other side, where Islam rules are wars, people are starving, need 'kuffar' medecine to survive, there is barely education, women still have barely few rights, kids get teached to fire guns, etc....

REALLY, prove and this so called stable government of the west I swear by the one whose hands are in my soul, the WEST so called " civilization " will cease to exist.Wallahi and every muslim and so do you athiests know this it will happen
O righteous Muslims in this forum please do not accept these beliefs and ideas of these kuffar and DO NOT LET THEM AFFECT YOU. " ITAQUL-ALLAH.

[wilberhum]

REALLY, prove and this so called stable government of the west

The US has have 43 governmental turnovers and none of them were violent

I swear by the one whose hands are in my soul, the WEST so called " civilization " will cease to exist.

Every thing comes to an end. So the govermnents of the East will also end.

Wallahi and every muslim and so do you athiests know this it will happen

Right, even athiests know what always happens will continue to happen. Da.

O righteous Muslims in this forum please do not accept these beliefs and ideas of these kuffar and DO NOT LET THEM AFFECT YOU. " ITAQUL-ALLAH.

Acceptance or non acceptance, things will change.

[Pygoscelis]

did not want to comment on them as they are equally as nasty to their own Aborigine populations (even worse they slaughtered them) if any muslim goes there is asking for it. (canada is marginally better than New Zealand & Australia as many racists who are forced to be civil to us by English law emigrate there and when they find we are there already, can you imagine their reactions?
they did far worse to their chinese neighbors so emigrate to such people at your peril
do not know anything about them except that they are strict catholics and regard us as the infidels , so do not go there
well they along with Argies are given the "honorary" title of "wannabe Nazis" by me, as they made a habit of sheltering known murderers yes! but then I will have to include some "Muslim" countries too (which will break my heart)

also I do not know about anti-Muslim legislation in any of above mentioned countries

None of that has anything to do with attitudes towards muslims. You claimed the US and UK were the only countries not hostile towards MUSLIMS. And how can you excuse the US's treatment of its natives yet condemn Canada, Australia, New Zealand?

[NoName55]

None of that has anything to do with attitudes towards muslims. You claimed the US and UK were the only countries not hostile towards MUSLIMS. And how can you excuse the US's treatment of its natives yet condemn Canada, Australia, New Zealand?

so the US is Not compesating what is left of the natives?

is it persecuting it's Muslim populations? including Bros. Woodrow, Estes etc.

you sneaky troll asked me to comment on those countries.

As far as US is concerned, would you like me to mount my zimmer frame and invade it on suspicion of native abuse?

God save me from these tricksters

[Woodrow]

This thread is rapidly trying to become an argument. Continue the argument when it reopens after Ramadan