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Scruffy
08-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Hi & salaams all,

I've come here to learn about & understand Islam & muslims.

I can't seem to upload a custom avatar, I've checked the faq, no joy. Can anyone provide a tip?

Many thanks
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Pk_#2
08-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Peace be upon those who follow guidance,

welcome to the forum bro :)

About the avatar : it may be because you are still a limited member,

stay active, 50+ posts gets you into full member mode.

Tc be good :D
Reply

'Abd al-Baari
08-18-2007, 01:00 PM
Hey

Welcome to the forums :)
Hope you have a good and beneficial stay

About the avatar it might not be allowed because the size is too big
Reply

Scruffy
08-18-2007, 01:09 PM
Thank you UW & Abd, for the kind welcome and the tips. I think it's the 50+ posts / limited member thing.:)

Cheers
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*~Sofia~*
08-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Peace Scruffy!

welcome to the LI community, i do hope u have a beneficial stay!
Explore the forums, take part in discussions and do enjoy :D
any more questions? do ask away bro!

Enjoy and get posting... (then u can upload wotever avatar u wish :p

Peace out
Reply

Scruffy
08-19-2007, 04:13 AM
Such a warm welcome. I came here to learn and I've learnt something already: the muslims in this part of cyberspace are as welcoming and hospitable as they are in the parts of the muslim world I've visited.

Credit :happy:
Reply

Pk_#2
08-19-2007, 04:19 AM
I'm sure you can use the default avatars? :rollseyes

What places have you visited? :D
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Scruffy
08-19-2007, 05:03 AM
Yeah, I looked at the defaults but none reflected my personality appropriately :(

Muslim lands I've visited: Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, South Thailand, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Emirates, Qatar and, of course, Londonistan. ;D

My favorite is definitely Afghanistan:thumbs_up

Next on the list are Syria & Morocco, I'd love to go to Iran soon too

You?
Reply

جوري
08-19-2007, 05:12 AM
:welcome: scruffy.. you might just be the Atheist to undo my sterotypes on Atheism?.. so receptive and genial ( a welcome change).. hope you enjoy your stay on board LI (not express).. we have LI express too but
it is reserved for the proud few ...

:lol:

peace!
Reply

Scruffy
08-19-2007, 07:01 AM
And I'm afraid that I'm in danger of having my stereotypes of Muslims undone too:scared: :D

PA you're too kind - wait till I get provocative:nervous:

I delurked to make a contribution to the Taliban Getting Whipped thread coz I've spent quite some time there over the last few years but, the Mods closed it before I had the chance:(

Oh, and may I suggest that it might be more suitable if atheist is written with a small "a"

Peace
Reply

Abdul-Raouf
08-19-2007, 07:45 AM
:w:


Reply

barney
08-19-2007, 07:52 AM
Hi 2 U Scruffs.
Have a great stay
Reply

Pk_#2
08-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by Scruffy
Yeah, I looked at the defaults but none reflected my personality appropriately :(

Muslim lands I've visited: Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, South Thailand, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Emirates, Qatar and, of course, Londonistan. ;D

My favorite is definitely Afghanistan:thumbs_up

Next on the list are Syria & Morocco, I'd love to go to Iran soon too

You?
:eek: You must be loaded!,

Londonistan :muddlehea Need to visit dat place!

I only been to erm..:heated: [My list is too big to fit on this page] :hiding:

Peace be upon those who follow guidance.
Reply

Yanal
08-20-2007, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by *~Sofia~*
Peace Scruffy!

welcome to the LI community, i do hope u have a beneficial stay!
Explore the forums, take part in discussions and do enjoy :D
any more questions? do ask away bro!

Enjoy and get posting... (then u can upload wotever avatar u wish :p

Peace out
Welcome i agreewith Umma wasat stay active chump*sorry i am a chump my selve:coolious: *
Reply

Kittygyal
08-20-2007, 02:36 PM
Hi :-\
Reply

Woodrow
08-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Scruffy
Hi & salaams all,

I've come here to learn about & understand Islam & muslims.

I can't seem to upload a custom avatar, I've checked the faq, no joy. Can anyone provide a tip?

Many thanks
Welcome to LI Scruffy. You seem to be a very likable person. Hopefully you will enjoy your stay. At the moment you do not have the option to use a custom avatar. That will change after you reach 50 posts and become a full member.

Perhaps we should have a stock avatar for our atheist members. I can not find any that would be appropriate. I wonder what one would look like.

Perhaps:


you will find some of us have not quite normal senses of humor. Enjoy yourself and hopefully learn what we truly are like.
Reply

unknown_JJ
08-20-2007, 04:47 PM
hey welcome welcome
Reply

barney
08-21-2007, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
.

Perhaps we should have a stock avatar for our atheist members. I can not find any that would be appropriate. I wonder what one would look like.

Perhaps:


.
The IPU or FSM would be a good avatar :)
Reply

Scruffy
08-21-2007, 02:47 AM
I'm again touched by the welcome:thumbs_up

Woodrow, you're funny;D . Can I start using that avatar right away? Strange isn't it, we believe in absolutely nothing and yet, have so much to say?

Barns, good idea, I'd paste some FSM, IPU images but can't as I''m limited, I think, you wanna do it? There's also Dawkins' big red A.

"Touched by his noodly appendage"

Or we can chant the Scruffy shadaha: "No one's scruffy as Scruffy and Scruffy's Scruffy's prophet"
Reply

جوري
08-21-2007, 03:29 AM
50 posts scruffs use em wisely .. though I consider myself 'easy going'.. I don't take too kindly to Showing your contempt to religion by derision or even in the form of pasquinades!
Indeed those of us who have found our fingers to LI, can find our way to other cyber forums, where generally there is no shortage of false and malicious publication for the purpose of defaming Islam, in the beginning you attested to having respect for Islam and Muslims.. your posts I hope will reflect that!... Let's keep this forum a fortress please-- shall we?
peace!
Reply

barney
08-21-2007, 03:35 AM
An atheist will have a similar level of respect for religion as a theist will have for atheism.

Strangely a Agnostic has more respect, since they can beleive in one creator, yet they draw the most fire!
Reply

جوري
08-21-2007, 03:51 AM
nah.. personally speaking I aim indiscriminately!
Reply

barney
08-21-2007, 03:56 AM
Roflmao!
Reply

Scruffy
08-21-2007, 04:09 AM
PA, thanks for the gentle reminder. I did wonder if it would be appropriate in here, in fact I had self moderated the comment somewhat.

Pasquinades. I had to look that up. Great word. Thx.:sunny:

I think in the beginning I may have attested to having respect for Muslims, which I do, however don't seem to recall mentioning anything like that about religions.

BTW that got me thinking: I've always wondered if the aversion to critical examination was due to insecurity, or is it something else? If something else, then what? I'm not being factious, I'd really like to know.

Best
Reply

north_malaysian
08-21-2007, 04:13 AM
:sl:

Welcome!!!!

I wonder in which part of SE Asia you're living in?:okay:
Reply

Scruffy
08-21-2007, 04:27 AM
Right now, in Burma:nervous: . Going tonight to freeze my butt off in NZ. I live in airport lounges - it's very glamorous!:uhwhat

thanks for the welcome
Reply

جوري
08-21-2007, 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by Scruffy
PA, thanks for the gentle reminder. I did wonder if it would be appropriate in here, in fact I had self moderated the comment somewhat.

Pasquinades. I had to look that up. Great word. Thx.:sunny:

I think in the beginning I may have attested to having respect for Muslims, which I do, however don't seem to recall mentioning anything like that about religions.

BTW that got me thinking: I've always wondered if the aversion to critical examination was due to insecurity, or is it something else? If something else, then what? I'm not being factious, I'd really like to know.

Best
we can get into that in a few days.. I can't get into a deep philosophical discussion currently... I don't think it is anything along the lines of aversion to critical thinking.. people can travel parallel lines and not intersect.. generally I don't think it is because one has examined the situation more critically than the others.. they might have examined as critically but come up with completely different conclusions.. with that comes responsibility...

I am not sure what how to assimilate it to you in lines where we can see eye to eye?.. I suppose it is like when you first become a father and decide the role you wish to accomplish for the needs of your family, do you want to be a full time dad work at home be hands on? do you want to be the best financial provider and make your family want for nothing even if you have to travel far and wide, give them the best of the best, do you want a compromise between the two? I don't think anyone can make that decision for someone else, more importantly I don't think it at all appropriate to criticize someone for the decision they have made... I can take any little portion in the human body, break it down to the smallest component and tell you of the impossibilities and the improbabilities of such components assembling out of nothing or out of randomness and you might think diametrically how it is all under physiological conditions... we might get into a discussion on what grounds the physiological conditions themselves mandated such laws unfold in that course amino acids diffrentiating into organ system that aren't only functional for their purpose but even the aesthetics not just of the human body but of the universe.. or how such grounds constituted sentiency at a later point.. whatever is the case... I don't particularly find it skillful to assume you have reached some sort of nirvana while others are left to rot in the mire..
Now why such laws or why this religion is a whole other segment to our conclusions... I can't discuss with you tetralogy of fallot, when you don't even know what makes a cyanotic heart disease.. we have to find some common grounds and take it from there.. otherwise we'll be wasting each other's time and there is no shortage of members who do just that on the forum.. I do still hope you have a genuine interest in Islam and Muslims, not on a superficial level but one that will hopefully change your life toward a deeper more sensible understanding... pls forgive typos or grammatical errors I am sort of in a hurry :confused:

peace!
Reply

Scruffy
08-21-2007, 10:50 PM
PA, obviously you were in a hurry, the expression I used was critical examination, not critical thinking. There’s a distinction.

I totally get why one would be reticent to jump into discussions with new members, it’s probably the right call.

Other than the challenge of your grammar and punctuation, I reckon I can stay with you on those topics, except cardiology. Oh, and ID would be a waste of time, it’s been debunked in court, crashed and burned, the proponents humiliated. The judge’s statement is worth a read.

Best
Reply

جوري
08-21-2007, 11:47 PM
it is a waste of time to someone without a keen examaning eye no offense intended... also, there comes a time in your life when you value your own judgement over what is thrown out or accepted in court!
I am not going to dismiss or accept a theory on the basis that a committee of self elected illuminati have tread on such grounds and decided what is correct and acceptable!

further, I had no intention of bringing ID into the discussion by mention of tetralogy of fallot or cyanotic heart disease.. rather it was meant as what is the deterrence of discussing matters of jurisprudence with an atheist, when there is no established common ground.. again sort of like arguing why laproscopic suction with parenteral nutrition would be first line therapy over bowel rest and antibiotics or an exploartory laprotomy, or an endoscopic removal of a hematoma in a child who presented with blunt trauma with epigastric pain and a hematoma on CT scan, when your day job is a bartender..

Which is something I notice with many atheists who read a hadith or a sura and come and argue logic or lack thereof when others dedicate a life time studying it...
To answer your original question, I don't think you value certain aspects of religion the way a theist does, or give it the same amount of dedication, hence when you come and use one deragatory term and then question why it is that someone found it offensive.. is it because of aversion? honestly what do you think?

peace!
Reply

Scruffy
08-22-2007, 12:32 AM
It was this bit that made me think you were referring to ID:

I can take any little portion in the human body, break it down to the smallest component and tell you of the impossibilities and the improbabilities of such components assembling out of nothing or out of randomness

Illegitimate court?

Ah yes, but of course the ID inventors recognized the legitimacy of the court prior to proceedings by their enthusiastic participation. It is without doubt that if the judgment went in their favour creationists the world over would be crowing about it from the rooftops.

I don't see the concept of critical examination as derogatory nor offensive - unless one's deeply insecure
Reply

جوري
08-22-2007, 01:38 AM
[QUOTE=Scruffy;814135]


Ah yes, but of course the ID inventors recognized the legitimacy of the court prior to proceedings by their enthusiastic participation. It is without doubt that if the judgment went in their favour creationists the world over would be crowing about it from the rooftops.
I am not really sure how this concerns me or devout theists in general? a remote group of cavalier men or I should say one scientist decided to take on the court and lost, do you honestly expect me to take a court ruling as a measure of whether or not God exists? or the portion of the case presented to signify entire scientific research or exemplify the entire scientific community? to suggest that a court ruling is the measure by which folks should live their life is frankly uproarious.. there was a time when a court decided to burn women at the stake for practicing witch craft.. not sure why judges, scientests or their foes should spend so much time deliberating the existence of God in court, some of us found the whole affair preposterous, some others hold apparently still like to hold on to it as their straw man-- frankly a court ruling isn't something you can sink your teeth into on the 'alone journey'---
I don't see the concept of critical examination as derogatory nor offensive - unless one's deeply insecure
I believe you have missed the point entirely and compounded by the folly of ludicrously assaying your proponents psyche .. an embarrassing quality shared by most atheists as I have come to learn of late.. this isn't about insecurities it is about your sphere of expertise (you can't contend in a field that is frankly beyond you, or where you haven't established some common grounds from which to argue).. I tend to think people should limit themselves to their field or ask scholars where a question might not have an immediatly construed answer-- I believe I have established that in the examples given above! your instinctual answers or feelings about a situation from a 'humanistic' as many argue or 'atheistic' is but to counter with idle quips isn't a keen analysis and frankly serves to waste everyone's time the same way I just wasted 17 minutes of mine.. it doesn't work when you argue with a vascular surgeon about the finite details of a procedure where a protocol has been studied and established and and it won't work on exegetical texts that is usually contemplated and examined deeply and for years by scholars-- basically we need to avoid debates where one displays ridiculous and anserine behavior if we are to have some fruitful discussions-- at least that is my hope!

peace!
Reply

Scruffy
08-24-2007, 11:04 AM
Hi Purest, I’m guessing from your first para that you agree that one of the key inventors of ID is not credible. I’m with you. We could belabour this or move on.

do you honestly expect me to take a court ruling as a measure of whether or not God exists?
What I expect is for you to accept the authority of the court and reject your entire belief system forthwith or I’ll….

I’ll….

Hold my breath until…

until…..you do! :p

Seriously though, as I said in my very first post, I came here to learn about & understand Muslims & Islam. The reason is that I often travel and work in Muslim places. I wouldn’t argue vascular surgery with you any more than I would argue about which of your feet should depart the bathroom first. You and I would both agree that we don’t need to know the intricacies of Norse god theology to know it is fictitious. But, it is beside the point.

It wasn’t an idle quip, you chastised me for a comment and I asked you what you thought the reason might be for the fragile sensitivities of Muslims. Why does one need go around on tiptoes, not so much here (I understand now that the comment might have been inappropriate) but out in the real world? It comes across as insecurity, but maybe it is buried in the doctrine, or maybe it is too complicated for a non-Muslim to understand.

This was my original question:

BTW that got me thinking: I've always wondered if the aversion to critical examination was due to insecurity, or is it something else? If something else, then what? I'm not being factious, I'd really like to know.
I don’t think I was being asinine, nor disingenuous. You and the others provided such a warm welcome when I came on board and I thought I could ask and get a thoughtful response. I hope I haven’t wasted your time, but I you think I have please let me know and we can discontinue.

Very best
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swanlake
08-24-2007, 11:53 AM
Hello Scruffy and welcome

Is there something that you hold dear and would sacrifies for your all?
Reply

rozeena
08-24-2007, 11:56 AM
hi scruffy welcome 2da forum!
Reply

unknown_JJ
08-24-2007, 01:14 PM
hey welcome
Reply

Uthman
08-24-2007, 02:02 PM
Welcome Scruffy!

You seem like a very nice person. I look forward to your contributions. :)


Reply

جوري
08-24-2007, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Scruffy
Hi Purest, I’m guessing from your first para that you agree that one of the key inventors of ID is not credible. I’m with you. We could belabour this or move on.
I implied no such thing.. merely a strange focus.. I don't think such an argument belongs in court.. firstly separation of church and state will naturally dictate the outcome regardless of the judge's personal opinion...
No different than ethics in medicine.. you might feel strongly that you should give someone a transfusion to live, but he/she may deny it and that is their right, not yours.... Ball is already not in the court of the ID'ers and there is no point in trying to bring it there in an already secular state.. it will open a can of worm!

What I expect is for you to accept the authority of the court and reject your entire belief system forthwith or I’ll….

I’ll….

Hold my breath until…

until…..you do! :p
I only accept the authority of God and his is the moral compass by which I choose to live my life!

Seriously though, as I said in my very first post, I came here to learn about & understand Muslims & Islam. The reason is that I often travel and work in Muslim places. I wouldn’t argue vascular surgery with you any more than I would argue about which of your feet should depart the bathroom first. You and I would both agree that we don’t need to know the intricacies of Norse god theology to know it is fictitious. But, it is beside the point.
sure I do.. how else would I judge which is better? How can you decide if Lemon Meringue Pie or a Basic Tiramisu suits your taste buds, if you don't try them both? If you are not into desert, that is an entirely different ball game-- fact is, it is instinctive to worship... you've merely substituted one for another.. what ever your ideals are in life, that is your God~!

It wasn’t an idle quip, you chastised me for a comment and I asked you what you thought the reason might be for the fragile sensitivities of Muslims. Why does one need go around on tiptoes, not so much here (I understand now that the comment might have been inappropriate) but out in the real world? It comes across as insecurity, but maybe it is buried in the doctrine, or maybe it is too complicated for a non-Muslim to understand.
I'll agree with the very last sentence!



I don’t think I was being asinine, nor disingenuous. You and the others provided such a warm welcome when I came on board and I thought I could ask and get a thoughtful response. I hope I haven’t wasted your time, but I you think I have please let me know and we can discontinue.

Very best
No you weren't-- I have just decided, this is base line for most Atheists?... I don't know what you regard of importance in your life.. I don't know if you'd take too kindly to insults to your mother? perhaps that is common courtesies one expects from a fellow human being... but then... some go on killing their parents so, there isn't much of a consensus on 'values' where 'humanity' is concerned... however, where I see fit, I'll drop my chastisement... Either way, my comments weren't directed toward YOU the atheist.. but any atheist.. I find them just as dogmatic as any religious person.. only on the opposite side of the spectrum... Enver hoxha(ish) at times..

peace!
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Aisha20
08-24-2007, 10:40 PM
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Al_Imaan
08-26-2007, 09:17 PM
:welcome: to the forums. Hope you enjoy your stay.
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