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sabachthani
08-20-2007, 08:14 AM
Why is Arabic considered the language of Islam?
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Anwarica
08-20-2007, 12:25 PM
:sl:
Simply because Arabic is the language of the Quran and prophet Muhammed was Arabian who speaks Arabic :)
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Kittygyal
08-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Isn't it because it's Allaah's language? :hmm:

im not sure my self so 4gve me
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Anwarica
08-20-2007, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kittygyal
Isn't it because it's Allaah's language? :hmm:

im not sure my self so 4gve me
Well, I don't understand .. Allah created all languages among humans .. He chose Arabic for the Quran because this language has many features that makes it a strong language (Notice that the Quran itself is a miracle and Arabs were challenged to bring something like it) .. that's what I had in mind :)
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Kittygyal
08-20-2007, 01:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica
Well, I don't understand .. Allah created all languages among humans .. He chose Arabic for the Quran because this language has many features that makes it a strong language (Notice that the Quran itself is a miracle and Arabs were challenged to bring something like it) .. that's what I had in mind :)
:sl:

Allah hu alim.
Reply

sabachthani
08-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Anwarica
Simply because Arabic is the language of the Quran and prophet Muhammed was Arabian who speaks Arabic
It was written in Arabic, by an Arab. Besides this, why the strict correlation between language and religion. Wouldn't the practice of religion, be most effective in a language of command?

Originally Posted by Anwarica
Well, I don't understand .. Allah created all languages among humans .. He chose Arabic for the Quran because this language has many features that makes it a strong language (Notice that the Quran itself is a miracle and Arabs were challenged to bring something like it) .. that's what I had in mind
Can you cite any example from the Koran, that would have conveyed a wrong, or misleading interpretation, had it been revealed in English instead?

And, on what basis is it considered a miracle? It is a known fact, that the long held beliefs, of exclusive teachings, is untrue.
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Pk_#2
08-20-2007, 04:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kittygyal
:sl:

Allah hu alim.

But... i thought Allaah's first language was 'arabic' so he wrote the qura'an in arabic.

I don't know +o(
u ok sis? :muddlehea
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Kittygyal
08-20-2007, 04:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umma Wasat
u ok sis? :muddlehea
:sl:

God knows :thumbs_do
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Woodrow
08-20-2007, 05:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
It was written in Arabic, by an Arab. Besides this, why the strict correlation between language and religion. Wouldn't the practice of religion, be most effective in a language of command?
All translation from any language to another are at best an approximation. Language is very much related to religion. The words form the thought process by which a person will self interpret what is written. This was early understood. Notice that in the Abrahamic religions that the early believers adhered strictly to the original language of the revelations. The Jews stopped speaking Hebrew as the daily colloqual language for thousands of years. However, the language of their religion remained Hebrew. Even modern Jews learn Hebrew in order to fully understand their religion. The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic. The only way we can truly understand the truth of Islam is to learn to read the original Qur'an. Christianity resorted to translating the words of Jesus(as) and his followers. As a result the original words have ceased to exist and all that remains are translations that can not be verified.




Can you cite any example from the Koran, that would have conveyed a wrong, or misleading interpretation, had it been revealed in English instead?
No, I can not. However, those that speak both English and Arabic will testify that none of the known English translations carry the same meaning as the Arabic. I do speak and read some Arabic. a sufficient amount to see for myself that many Arabic words have no English equivalent. However, in the context of the Arabic sentences they are very clear and the connotation is readily understood.


Another example. I notice you are using the Aramaic word sabacthani as your user name. Aramaic is another Semitic Language related to Arabic and Hebrew. Most speakers of Hebrew or Arabic do have at least the rudimentary ability to read it. The word sabacthani is a good example of what can happen. Standing alone the word has no English meaning. Although when combinded with La ma and written a bit more accuratly and becoming La ma sabak athani. It carries the connontation of "You have given me up, Why?" Although that is far from being exact and the connontation is more in line of being "You have denied knowing me and abandoned me, why did you do this to me?"

And, on what basis is it considered a miracle? It is a known fact, that the long held beliefs, of exclusive teachings, is untrue.
The miracle is quite obvious to any person familiar with the Qur'anic Arabic. It is the only book ever written in that form of Arabic and no person has been capable of writing a single original sentence in the same form. It is a true miracle of linguistics that nobody has been able to duplicate in over 1,400 years. Another Miracle is that although there are many dialects of Arabic a person who can understand anyone of the dialects can read and understand the Qur'an even tho they can not understand speakers of a dialect other than their own.
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Anwarica
08-20-2007, 05:48 PM
Dear sabachthani,
Adding to the replies of Woodrow, Arabs are known to have a special talent in using their language in poem, rhetoric, etc .. they even spent most of their time challenging each other in front of tribes .. Also there's something about prophet Muhammed, he couldn't read nor write .. so when he recite Quran, no one can say Muhammed PBUH wrote it! because even the best poets couldn't bring an aya (verse) like the Quraan :)

I'm a native Arabic speaker, when I was in KJ-2 I realized some differences between English and Arabic .. for instance, in English: you put plural form to anything counted larger than 2, while in Arabic there is a form of using dual option (that gives you the accuracy to understand easily if the phrase talks about 2 persons or more) .. that was a simple example :)
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Anwarica
08-20-2007, 05:52 PM
I can't edit my post, anyway there's a typo: KG (Kindergarten) Not KJ :)
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sabachthani
08-20-2007, 06:51 PM
As far as depth of language is concerned, there can be no word or phrase, by
itself, or contextual, that cannot efficiently be explained in another language.

With no intention of debating the point, the Koran is still hardly a miracle. Calling
it a miracle of linguistics, further belittles the faith, compared to the many
miracles before it. By virtue of content, it is definitely, far from miraculous.

And, having been compiled from the writings on leaves and stones, and the
regurgitations of scribes, does it not raise even a glimmer of doubt, on its
explicit authenticity?
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Woodrow
08-20-2007, 07:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
As far as depth of language is concerned, there can be no word or phrase, by
itself, or contextual, that cannot efficiently be explained in another language.

With no intention of debating the point, the Koran is still hardly a miracle. Calling
it a miracle of linguistics, further belittles the faith, compared to the many
miracles before it. By virtue of content, it is definitely, far from miraculous.

And, having been compiled from the writings on leaves and stones, and the
regurgitations of scribes, does it not raise even a glimmer of doubt, on its
explicit authenticity?
A very large number of us on this forum are reverts. We were not born into Islam and most of us were very devout in a prior faith before reverting. Very few of us were asked to become Muslim. We came of our own choice, simply because we came to the realization that the Qur'an is true. Each of us has different reasons for coming to that conclusion, but we each came to that conclusion.

I know I can not convince you of the validity of the Qur'an as that is something you can only do yourself and for your own reasons.

I do not have a glimmer of a doubt that the Qur'an is true. Although I did fight it and believed it to be mere literature for the first 65 years of my life.
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Anwarica
08-21-2007, 01:04 AM
Dear sabachthani,
Quran answers you back without any doubts :)
As a medical student, I chose science to prove more than the language or literature, but that doesn't mean I don't admire the miracles of Quran regarding choosing words perfectly ..

Moreover, please listen to this Sura:
Mariam listen carefully after the minute 19 .. I know you don't know Arabic, but didn't you notice the rhyme?

Regarding Quran miracles, please follow the links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWMv4CvU_o (long duration video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7QqV-Mj7n4 this one, notice the lowest place on earth.

:)
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backbencher
08-21-2007, 06:38 AM
My fellow Texian:

Marhaba. "The miracle is quite obvious to any person familiar with the Qur'anic Arabic. It is the only book ever written in that form of Arabic and no person has been capable of writing a single original sentence in the same form. It is a true miracle of linguistics that nobody has been able to duplicate in over 1,400 years. Another Miracle is that although there are many dialects of Arabic a person who can understand anyone of the dialects can read and understand the Qur'an even tho they can not understand speakers of a dialect other than their own."

Hmmm. In my last class, hamza was not classified as a letter - I gather the reason is b/c it wasn't in the Qu'ran. So, to write in Arabic today one would necessarily be excluded from writing in that form of Arabic, as one would naturally use hamzas, or they would be implied by modern usage. I am also given to understand partially b/c of the widespread teaching of the Qu'ran, formal Arabic is widely understood in the Arab-speaking world - hence Al Jazeera broadcasts in formal Arabic. So while a Moroccan & an Omani could never converse in dialect, they could communicate in formal Arabic quite readily. I'm afraid I don't quite follow your two miracles, if you're using the term in the sense I'm familiar w/.

FARMERS FIGHT!

backbencher
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north_malaysian
08-21-2007, 07:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica

Moreover, please listen to this Sura:
Mariam listen carefully after the minute 19 .. I know you don't know Arabic, but didn't you notice the rhyme?
:)
I love Sura Al Rahmaan...
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sabachthani
08-24-2007, 11:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica
Quran answers you back without any doubts
Thank you for your response, and for the YouTube links.

Referring to the one on embryology, wasn't that debunked?
Weren't there Greek studies that far predated the advent
of the Koran, not only in this field, but also in astronomy?
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Woodrow
08-24-2007, 11:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
Thank you for your response, and for the YouTube links.

Referring to the one on embryology, wasn't that debunked?
Weren't there Greek studies that far predated the advent
of the Koran, not only in this field, but also in astronomy?
Please show them.
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Re.TiReD
08-24-2007, 03:02 PM
Arabic is considered the language of Islam, maybe because it is the language of the Qur'aan and the Prophet SalallahuAlayhiWasallam...The Qur'aan is the revealed word of Allaah, it being revealed in arabic would heighten the importance of it.
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Anwarica
08-24-2007, 11:39 PM
Dear sabachthani,
Please provide some links for any myths :)
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sabachthani
08-25-2007, 09:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Please show them.
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica
Please provide some links for any myths
Embryology, and Geocentric Astronomy, were taught, more
than 400 years, before the first Koranic revelation, and
Heliocentric Astronomy, 60 years before it. (links to articles)

As an interesting footnote, Galen was born, and died in Turkey,
as did Ptolemy, in Egypt. And the teachings of Aryabhata were
translated, and brought to Arabia, during the Sassanid Empire.

Without arguing the nuances or semantics of the matter,
the fact remains, that such knowledge had already been
discovered, long before it was ever revealed in the Koran
.

This issue, is not one of scientific accuracy.

It is one of divine inference, purportedly anteceding all
discovery, and ostentatiously assuming progenitorial status.
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sabachthani
08-26-2007, 05:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
We came of our own choice, simply because we came to the realization that the Qur'an is true.

I do not have a glimmer of a doubt that the Qur'an is true. Although I did fight it and believed it to be mere literature for the first 65 years of my life.
If you feel it's appropriate, would you please briefly elucidate how you came to that realisation?

Also, could you recommend any writings, that would give an unbiased account of the prophet's life.
Preferably, not contemporary, but rather, written close to his times, ergo 6th, 7th , 8th centuries.

Thank you.
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Woodrow
08-26-2007, 11:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
If you feel it's appropriate, would you please briefly elucidate how you came to that realization?
I would say it is probably very individual and different tor each person. so speaking just for my self. I am a fairly recent revert having reverted just a little over 2 years ago, March of 2005, Just a few months before my 65th birthday.

I was familiar with Islam in an academic sense. But, I was pretty much of an agnostic although I preferred to call myself a Buddhist. i was also familiar with Arabic as a language. I had spent a number of years in the North African and Mid-Eastern countries in my younger days. I had a Qur'an written only in Arabic. At the time I did not know that a non-Muslim should not have a pure Qur'an unless they had been taught how to respect it. For nearly 40 years I had that Qur'an as an academic guide. I saw it simply as a piece of literature and a very interesting study in the Arabic Language. I had never had any desire to accept Islam and nobody had every asked me to. I had never spoken to an Imam or ever even discussed Islam with a Muslim to any extent.

At the time of my reverting I was living in a small town in Anderson, county Texas. I was not aware of any Mosques in Anderson County and did not even know if there were any Muslims in Texas.

I was a semi-church goer, even being agnostic. In small town Texas, a person is pretty much expected to, at least a few times each year, put on your Sunday go to meeting duds, and mingle with the folks at church. That was my limit on organized religion.

Anyhow I was cleaning up the house, and came across my Qur'an. I had been alone for 2 years and living the life of an old bachelor out in the middle of no place. My car had been dead for a few weeks and I was pretty much on foot.
Was semi-courting the widow lady down the street, we would have coffee together at her house a few times a week. Did occasionaly have some fleeting thoughts that perhaps I would remarry. she was/is a good woman with some nice values and at the time, we had some serious discussions about marriage.

Anyhow that particular day after coming across my Qur'an I thought I'd try to refresh my Arabic and began reading it. For some reaso as i read it it, I was overcome with a feeling of deep comfort. I had always known I could not read the Qur'an properly as I did not understand the proununciation marks so my pronounciation was very colloquial and not Qur'anic. But, even reading it simply as literature and viewing it as a language tool, This particular day, it was like a bell rang. The words made sense and were not just poetry. the more I read the more relaxed I became. The more relaxed, the more comforting it was. I read through the Qur'an non-stop until I had read the entire book, and then started over again. I don't really know how many hours I read and could not stop. I know it was at least 2 full days.

After reading it, I knew I was Muslim, it was as if I had found my way home. I said the Shahadah. (Yes, I knew what the Shahdah was, from having studing religions, and yes I knew how to say it. That came from old military days. When I was in North Africa, it was general Barracks hogwash talk, that if we ever got into a war with any Arab nations and got captured by Arabs we would not be killed if we said the Shahadah so many of us had learned it by heart)

After saying the Shahdah, I just sat and reflected for a while. I had said the Shahdah with full intent and sincerity. I knew I was then Muslim for the rest of my life. I slept for awhile. work up and decided to walk down to the convenience store about a mile down the road. When I was in the store a stranger came in. For some reason I got talking with him. I learned he spoke Arabic. We carried on a brief conversation in Arabic. I was surprised he could understand my broken, mispronounced speaking. I found out He was Muslim, I told him I had just said the Shahdah. He immediatly invited me to go with him to the Mosque on Friday. I did not know there was one in Texas. Turns out there was one in Tyler about 60 miles away. We went to the Mosque for Jummah that Friday. We got there early spoke with the Imam. I repeated the Shahadah publicaly and My life has changed. Besides being Muslim I met a life long friend, who was the first Brother I met in Islam.

So how I came to the realization that Islam is the truth, i can not fully say. It was not a planned thing. Everything just fell into place and I am very gratefull for what I gained. i also gained much, much more. But that is a seperate story.

Also, could you recommend any writings, that would give an unbiased account of the prophet's life.
Preferably, not contemporary, but rather, written close to his times, ergo 6th, 7th , 8th centuries.
The first early books I read about Muhammad(PBUH) were from the 10th Century, written from the Christian perspective. Not very flattering quite biased against him.

I have recently begun trying to search for early writings about Muhammad(PBUH). So far no luck. The only books I know of about him are the Hadith, which do contain a lot of information about the last 20 years of His life written by people who were close to him. I believe you would consider the Hadith to be biased and not valid from a historical view.

Thank you.
Your Welcome
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Anwarica
08-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Dear sabachthani,
I didn't quite understand :)
Without arguing the nuances or semantics of the matter,
the fact remains, that such knowledge had already been
discovered, long before it was ever revealed in the Koran.
I accessed the links, they are general information about books and science .. well, no one ever denies the presence of science (By Greeks for example), but was their science correct or complete? :)
They thought the earth is flat no spherical .. they never recorded the sounds of the pulsars! .. God says in the Holy Quran "I swear] by Heaven and the Tariq (The Knocker) ! And what will convey to you what the Tariq is? The Star Piercing [the darkness]! (Qur'an, 86:1-3)"
Let me provide some links about the pulsar; here's a link with sound and here's the official page on NASA. Also, a list of pulsars sounds
(sorry for taking much time to reply, it took me a day to search for the official pages :) )

I remember also in the Quran (70:40) where Easts and Wests are mentioned frankly in Arabic, and even some translations put it like this "the Lord of all points in the East and the West" .. this translation of points was made because people didn't know there are places with more than 1 east and 1 west, so they put what they could explain in English .. that's the Alpha Centauri
:)
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MustafaMc
08-26-2007, 01:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica
:sl:
Simply because Arabic is the language of the Quran and prophet Muhammed was Arabian who speaks Arabic :)
I agree, would it have made sense for the Quran to have been revealed in a language that Prophet Muhammad (saaws) could not understand?
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Anwarica
08-26-2007, 02:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I agree, would it have made sense for the Quran to have been revealed in a language that Prophet Muhammad (saaws) could not understand?
Even if Muhammed PBUH understood that other language, the people around him wouldn't understand :)

Brother Woodrow, I am happy for you :)
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sabachthani
08-26-2007, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Anwarica
I didn't quite understand
If no one denies the presence of science, and the Koran did not reveal any unknown facts,
where does it stand as a miracle? The accuracy of the pre-existing science, is irrelevant.
Advocates of the Koranic miracles, including Al-Shafy, have long insisted on the precedence
of its revelations, predating modern science by leaps and bounds. This is just not true.

Even chapter 86, verses 1 to 3, describe nothing more than a shooting star, clearly visible
with the naked eye. To suddenly translate tariq as knocker, when prior translations have
cited it to mean visitor, comer, or night star, is another example of how the Koran,
standing behind the wall of Arabic ambiguity, can evolve itself to mean anything.

I'm not trying to explain these so called miracles away. They're simply explainable.
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Woodrow
08-26-2007, 05:53 PM
We do live in a physical world and all things of this world do obey the natural order of the sciences. there is no denying that.

However, the universe is not limited to that which can be measured by the current tools of science.

I became a psychologist, while psychology was still in it's infancy. It had only been about 50 years before I was born that psychology was separated from philosophy and became a recognized science. this came about because Freud had discovered that analytical non-material testing, is a duplicable, definable form of testing. Perhaps one day science will realize that Faith can be measured and that it it can be used a a test to verify the influence of God(swt)

Theism does not deny science, it explains the why of science. this is where the Qur'an fits in. It just strikes me as odd that a scientist uses things such as clocks and thermometers and accepts as fact that they are constant for all time. The permenance of matter can not even be proven or accurately measured. We can not determine if the universe is a continuous continuum or if it is a discontinuous quanta continuum. It can not even be shown that if 2 accurate clock are set at the same time, that the time on both is still the same if the clocks are move 1 cm apart. Scientist have faith they do. But, it can not be proven nor accurately measured. Workably measured yes, but proven, no.

This is where the Qur'an becomes the feasible tool of measurement. But, like all tools you need to learn how to use it and how to read the results.
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Anwarica
08-26-2007, 08:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
If no one denies the presence of science, and the Koran did not reveal any unknown facts, where does it stand as a miracle?
The presence of science doesn't mean Quran doesn't reveal unknown facts :)

format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
Even chapter 86, verses 1 to 3, describe nothing more than a shooting star, clearly visible
with the naked eye. To suddenly translate tariq as knocker, when prior translations have
cited it to mean visitor, comer, or night star, is another example of how the Koran,
standing behind the wall of Arabic ambiguity, can evolve itself to mean anything.
It's not the matter of language here! :)
How do we expect people to explain the idea of the knocker when no one ever imagined there will be a pulsar that makes sound? .. when I read that verse before knowing this scientific evidence, I was wondering "who is knocking in the sky??" :D
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sabachthani
08-27-2007, 02:37 PM
Divine revelation should be easily distinguishable from progressive, perchance, discoveries.
Case in point, the tariq argument. Had it not been for Al-Shafy's purposeful search, for
evidence of modern scientific correlations with the Koran, we wouldn't have thought about it.

And in cases where such revelations were actually spelt out, i.e. embryology, we find that
it was in fact, not a revelation at all, as such knowledge had already been discovered.

Theism may not deny science, but it also does not explain the "why". It only narrates.

Nostradamus, in all his quatrains, had more accurate prophecies, than the Koran thus far.
Even so, experts dismiss them, as results of deliberate misinterpretations or mistranslations,
to purposefully correlate with world events, and claim the prophecies as fulfilled.

Sounds familiar?

Being in the field of psychology, I'm sure you know, that reading inspirational literature, can
induce an overwhelming sense of awe, especially if it is in a foreign language. Add to it,
a preconception of possible divinity, and one might just jump to the wrong realisations.

Bottom line, besides the miracle factor, what supports the Koran in its claims of divinity?
As this is the very foundation of Islam, I think that it is quite an important question.

Without vague justifications such as "I believe...", "I know in my heart...", etc, and
without re-trying the miracle factor, and most of all, without bombarding this board with
a barrage of supporting articles, or studies, by experts who are infidels to begin with,
CAN ANYONE SATISFACTORILY SAY, WHY THEY THINK THE KORAN IS THE WORD OF GOD?
Reply

Woodrow
08-27-2007, 03:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
Divine revelation should be easily distinguishable from progressive, perchance, discoveries.
Case in point, the tariq argument. Had it not been for Al-Shafy's purposeful search, for
evidence of modern scientific correlations with the Koran, we wouldn't have thought about it.
That works the same in both directions. No matter how something is revealed, the revelation will be explained by some, as not being a true revelation.



And in cases where such revelations were actually spelt out, i.e. embryology, we find that
it was in fact, not a revelation at all, as such knowledge had already been discovered.
That is a very subjective view. I can agree there was some knowledge of embryology. But, i doubt if that which was not seen until the advent of the microscope would have been known.

Theism may not deny science, but it also does not explain the "why". It only narrates.
true, however the source of the narration is the important factor.

Nostradamus, in all his quatrains, had more accurate prophecies, than the Koran thus far.
Even so, experts dismiss them, as results of deliberate misinterpretations or mistranslations,
to purposefully correlate with world events, and claim the prophecies as fulfilled.
true

Sounds familiar?
Yep, I see people saying the same about the Qur'an almost daily. But, what is true for one does not equate as being true for the other.

Being in the field of psychology, I'm sure you know, that reading inspirational literature, can
induce an overwhelming sense of awe, especially if it is in a foreign language. Add to it,
a preconception of possible divinity, and one might just jump to the wrong realisations.
That is true. It is a very big danger and can easily mislead people. Islam is quite adamant in demanding that we accept not only from faith but also through knowledge. we are required to Read, read and read. Our faith is good, but it is best to be a faith backed with knowledge.


Bottom line, besides the miracle factor, what supports the Koran in its claims of divinity?
As this is the very foundation of Islam, I think that it is quite an important question.
The only acceptable answer would be one that would give you reason to revert immediatly. I doubt if i have the knowledge to provide that. I can only give my own reasons.

1. Matter had an origin. the evidence for this is the age of the known universe can be traced back to a finite beginning. Our calculations may still be off but the evidence supports a beginning.

2. Matter either occurred spontaneously or it was created uniquely. If it occurred spontaneously the same conditions should have happened before and will should happen again. so far i have not found any evidence of matter existing prior to this universe nor any sign that any new matter is in the process of former. This is evidence that matter did not occur spontaneously.

3. If God(swt) does exist, there should be evidence of his existence some evidence is the existence of matter. There is also the many reports of Prophets(PBUT) that did have some form of communication with him. some may be false, but that does not rule out that some are true. the existence of Prophets(PBUT) is evidence of God(swt)

4. God(swt) would either have an interest in us or we are without purpose. If he gave us purpose he would have needed to give us a means of understanding that purpose. the Qur'an shows us how to understand that purpose.



Without vague justifications such as "I believe...", "I know in my heart...", etc, and
without re-trying the miracle factor, and most of all, without bombarding this board with
a barrage of supporting articles, or studies, by experts who are infidels to begin with,
CAN ANYONE SATISFACTORILY SAY, WHY THEY THINK THE KORAN IS THE WORD OF GOD?
to our own satisfaction yes. To the satisfaction of a non-believer? No, I can't However, I can tell why I believe and a person can evaluate my words and the words of others as they feel best. It is eventually up to each of us as individuals.
Reply

MustafaMc
08-28-2007, 12:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sabachthani
Bottom line, besides the miracle factor, what supports the Koran in its claims of divinity?
As this is the very foundation of Islam, I think that it is quite an important question.

Without vague justifications such as "I believe...", "I know in my heart...", etc, and
without re-trying the miracle factor, and most of all, without bombarding this board with
a barrage of supporting articles, or studies, by experts who are infidels to begin with,
CAN ANYONE SATISFACTORILY SAY, WHY THEY THINK THE KORAN IS THE WORD OF GOD?
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
to our own satisfaction yes. To the satisfaction of a non-believer? No, I can't However, I can tell why I believe and a person can evaluate my words and the words of others as they feel best. It is eventually up to each of us as individuals.
I agree with what Brother Woodrow wrote.

I believe in a Creator, that I know as Allah (swt), of the universe and of all life forms. I believe in a resurrection for all humans from the grave, a Judgement Day and I believe in Heaven, the Heights, and Hell. I believe that Allah is Just and that He would not send people to eternal torment without providing guidance as to how to avoid it. I believe that prophets have been sent from Allah to guide mankind. I believe that Muhammad (saaws) was a Prophet and Messenger of Allah and that Allah (swt) revealed the Quran through him as a guidance for all of mankind.

Howver, I can never convince you of this because it is a belief that comes from within and cannot be imposed from without.
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Anwarica
08-28-2007, 01:14 AM
CAN ANYONE SATISFACTORILY SAY, WHY THEY THINK THE KORAN IS THE WORD OF GOD?
I can, but let me ask you first .. do you believe in God? :)
If you are atheist, there is a book called "A conversation with my atheist friend" by Dr. Mostafa Mahmoud.

Here's the table of content of it:


Are you interested in any chapter of it? because I'm working in translating it to English to be launched in the form of e-book.
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