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islamirama
08-22-2007, 02:39 PM
I hope insha'Allah you all watch these programs on CNN so we can all get a better understanding about the three major religions. Do try to filter out any lies CNN says to soften the christian and jewish warriors and harden the muslim warriors....


Check it out:


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/gods.warriors/
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 02:49 PM
Im sorry to say this but for me this programm is just simply anti christian propaganda. This programme compares conservative (radical?) christians who take part in cultural struggle against abortion and against legalizing same sex marriages, with muslim terrorists who kill people. For me its insane.
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Keltoi
08-22-2007, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im sorry to say this but for me this programm is just simply anti christian propaganda. This programme compares conservative (radical?) christians who take part in cultural struggle against abortion and against legalizing same sex marriages, with muslim terrorists who kill people. For me its insane.
ditto
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 04:35 PM
I watched it. I thought it was really good.
Kind of blows the Zionist control of CNN though. :skeleton:

I would guess that is why Islamarama is already criticizing shows that have not aired.

I am suppressed at Aaron85 though. “anti christian propaganda” The Christian Warriors has not aired yet. Though Aaron and I have been on different sides of the fence in the past, I thought he was generally opened minded. Quite the opponent of Islamarama who in my opinion has never looked at the other side of the coin.
And I’m shocked by Keltoi’s “ditto”.

But any way, I thought it was excellent and I will watch tonight and tomorrow.
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I watched it. I thought it was really good.
Kind of blows the Zionist control of CNN though. :skeleton:

I would guess that is why Islamarama is already criticizing shows that have not aired.

I am suppressed at Aaron85 though. “anti christian propaganda” The Christian Warriors has not aired yet. Though Aaron and I have been on different sides of the fence in the past, I thought he was generally opened minded. Quite the opponent of Islamarama who in my opinion has never looked at the other side of the coin.
And I’m shocked by Keltoi’s “ditto”.

But any way, I thought it was excellent and I will watch tonight and tomorrow.

I didnt watch this movie, i just read about it in internet. (Yes in conservative websites :mmokay: ) And all i remember wa that they compared muslim terrorists, jewish orthodox and conservative christians in the whole documentary.Which is not fair i think. When u watch the whole 3 parts you can share your views about it. So i will see if this is true.
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I didnt watch this movie, i just read about it in internet. (Yes in conservative websites :mmokay: ) And all i remember wa that they compared muslim terrorists, jewish orthodox and conservative christians in the whole documentary.Which is not fair i think. When u watch the whole 3 parts you can share your views about it. So i will see if this is true.
So you past judgement withoug even seeing it? :skeleton:

Wow.
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Keltoi
08-22-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So you past judgement withoug even seeing it? :skeleton:

Wow.
My "ditto" was in relation to the way in which the documentary compares violent terrorists to protesting Christians. I don't believe it is honest or even logical to compare protests to mass killings. That was the only point of "ditto". In all, the documentaries are interesting.
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So you past judgement withoug even seeing it? :skeleton:

Wow.
I can say something about a movie without seeing it, but reading the review of it. And i read that the woman who made this documentary, in part about christianity, showed for examples teenagers in anti abortion march, Jerry Falwell, homeschooling in fundamentalist protestant families. And they are all "warriors of God". :mmokay: Ohh please.
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I can say something about a movie without seeing it, but reading the review of it. And i read that the woman who made this documentary, in part about christianity, showed for examples teenagers in anti abortion march, Jerry Falwell, homeschooling in fundamentalist protestant families. And they are all "warriors of God". :mmokay: Ohh please.
I guess we each have our own "Information Requirement" to pass judgement. :confused:
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islamirama
08-22-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
My "ditto" was in relation to the way in which the documentary compares violent terrorists to protesting Christians. I don't believe it is honest or even logical to compare protests to mass killings. That was the only point of "ditto". In all, the documentaries are interesting.
It's very common to call christians terrorists as "freedom fighters" and Muslim freedom fighters as "terrorists" for the exact same thing both are doing. Keep your double standards up, no wonder the east hates your kind.
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I guess we each have our own "Information Requirement" to pass judgement. :confused:
Thats for sure Wilberhum :giggling:
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
It's very common to call christians terrorists as "freedom fighters" and Muslim freedom fighters as "terrorists" for the exact same thing both are doing. Keep your double standards up, no wonder the east hates your kind.
Can you provide an example? I don't see anything but a "Victom Complex".
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islamirama
08-22-2007, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Can you provide an example? I don't see anything but a "Victom Complex".
Look at lebanon, and few other places in the ME and East. When Christians were fighting other forces, they were hailed as freedom Fighters, and Muslims engaged in same battles for their lives and self-defense, they were labeled terrorists and trouble causers. It's ok, i don't expect you to believe anyways other than what is the norm here.
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Look at lebanon, and few other places in the ME and East. When Christians were fighting other forces, they were hailed as freedom Fighters, and Muslims engaged in same battles for their lives and self-defense, they were labeled terrorists and trouble causers. It's ok, i don't expect you to believe anyways other than what is the norm here.
In this example you are right Islamirama. We should look at each different example of this "Warriors of God". We shouldnt generalize. Freedom fighting shouldnt be labeled as something connected with faith. In general i mean.
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czgibson
08-22-2007, 05:32 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im sorry to say this but for me this programm is just simply anti christian propaganda. This programme compares conservative (radical?) christians who take part in cultural struggle against abortion and against legalizing same sex marriages, with muslim terrorists who kill people. For me its insane.
Cultural struggle against abortion? You mean bombing abortion clinics? How is that different from terrorism? Smaller body-count so far, granted, but there is a clear moral equivalence.

Peace
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Look at lebanon, and few other places in the ME and East. When Christians were fighting other forces, they were hailed as freedom Fighters, and Muslims engaged in same battles for their lives and self-defense, they were labeled terrorists and trouble causers. It's ok, i don't expect you to believe anyways other than what is the norm here.
That's your openion. so? My openion is no more proof then yours.
Wo please provide a link to any news source that proclaims "Christian Terrorists" as "Freedom Fighters".

Don't have any do you? As I said "Victom Complex".
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islamirama
08-22-2007, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
That's your openion. so? My openion is no more proof then yours.
Wo please provide a link to any news source that proclaims "Christian Terrorists" as "Freedom Fighters".

Don't have any do you? As I said "Victom Complex".
Sorry i'm no longer in the business of saving every single news article i come across for your kind who deny everything and go mute when presented with the evidence. You are welcome to continue living according to your opinions all you like, just remember that a close mind doesn't get you far.
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Sorry i'm no longer in the business of saving every single news article i come across for your kind who deny everything and go mute when presented with the evidence. You are welcome to continue living according to your opinions all you like, just remember that a close mind doesn't get you far.
just remember that a close mind doesn't get you far.

Well now, I will take that as advice from an expert. :omg:
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Keltoi
08-22-2007, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Cultural struggle against abortion? You mean bombing abortion clinics? How is that different from terrorism? Smaller body-count so far, granted, but there is a clear moral equivalence.

Peace
What Aaron is speaking of are the millions of Christians who speak out and against abortion and are actively engaged in non-violent protest. Those few who have resorted to violence are an abomination.
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Isambard
08-22-2007, 06:49 PM
I really dont see a difference between the 3. I mean the extreme forms of all 3 have a similar if not exact mentallity, all 3 seek to retard both society and science. the only difference is the stats on how many ahve carried out their goals. This is a poor example to differentiate because the Islamist extremist groups arose from places with abyssmal economic and political conditions. It has nothing to do with religion in this case.

Just look at 80's South America and youll see my point.

All three are the same. To argue differently is merely bias.
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czgibson
08-22-2007, 07:03 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Keltoi
What Aaron is speaking of are the millions of Christians who speak out and against abortion and are actively engaged in non-violent protest.
a) That wasn't clear from his post.
b) The programme talked specifically about "Christians" bombing abortion clinics. So I guess the verdict Aaron gave on the programme here:

Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im sorry to say this but for me this programm is just simply anti christian propaganda. This programme compares conservative (radical?) christians who take part in cultural struggle against abortion and against legalizing same sex marriages, with muslim terrorists who kill people. For me its insane.
can be safely ignored.

Those few who have resorted to violence are an abomination.
Absolutely, but they did it in the name of their beliefs. They thought that their beliefs gave them the right to behave that way. That is the problem.

Peace
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NoName55
08-22-2007, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I watched it. I thought it was really good.
Kind of blows the Zionist control of CNN though. :skeleton:

I would guess that is why Islamarama is already criticizing shows that have not aired.

I am surprised at Aaron85 though. “anti christian propaganda” The Christian Warriors has not aired yet. Though Aaron and I have been on different sides of the fence in the past, I thought he was generally opened minded. Quite the opponent of Islamarama who in my opinion has never looked at the other side of the coin.
And I’m shocked by Keltoi’s “ditto”.

But any way, I thought it was excellent and I will watch tonight and tomorrow.
Ditto!

(hey! hey! what is happening to me?):D
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
Ditto!

(hey! hey! what is happening to me?):D
NoName, is that you?
Na, what did you do with NoName?

It was presented in as unbias unjudgmental way as possable. IMHO

Anyway, good to meet you on the same side of the street. :shade:
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


Cultural struggle against abortion? You mean bombing abortion clinics? How is that different from terrorism? Smaller body-count so far, granted, but there is a clear moral equivalence.

Peace
So frequently (by atheists, muslims,) showing those christians who bomb abortion clinics is as fair as it would be always mentioning Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot in talking about atheism. Got it?
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So frequently (by atheists, muslims,) showing those christians who bomb abortion clinics is as fair as it would be always mentioning Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot in talking about atheism. Got it?
I don't get it.
Did Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot, commit there evil to spread atheism?
When they murdered someone did they say this will make "No God" pleased?
I see the same conection as between a fish and a bicycle.

But that's just me.
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snakelegs
08-22-2007, 09:19 PM
communism was very much like a religion in my opinion.
they even had a place for pilgrimage in lenin's tomb. :D
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Fishman
08-22-2007, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I don't get it.
Did Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot, commit there evil to spread atheism?
When they murdered someone did they say this will make "No God" pleased?
I see the same conection as between a fish and a bicycle.

But that's just me.
:sl:
I'm pretty sure Stalin and Pol Pot persecuted people to stop them from believing in God though, one of the important tennents of Marxism is that religion is the opium of the masses, and Stalin and Pol Pot certainly liked to try to exercise Marx's ideas in a big, rather corrupt way...
:w:
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NoName55
08-22-2007, 09:24 PM
... and with all that said, Aaron's attempt at hijacking the thread and steering it away from original post and any criticism of The Evangelist has succeeded.

Bravo!

edit:

It is about commies now instead of terrorist etc.
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I'm pretty sure Stalin and Pol Pot persecuted people to stop them from believing in God though, one of the important tennents of Marxism is that religion is the opium of the masses, and Stalin and Pol Pot certainly liked to try to exercise Marx's ideas in a big, rather corrupt way...
:w:
stop them from believing in God? I don't think so.
I think it is simply about power.
Religion is a power and none of them were willing to share power.
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snakelegs
08-22-2007, 09:34 PM
i don't have a tv and haven't watched all the promos yet, but it looks to me like it is a pretty fair overview.
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Keltoi
08-22-2007, 09:42 PM
I don't know, I will give it a chance. However, like I said, I have my doubts about any documentary which seeks to create some moral equivalancy between American Evangelicals and terrorists. Notice I didn't say Islamic terrorists, that isn't even the issue. I just don't want to see the statements of Rosie O'Donnel about U.S. Christianity being the same as the Taliban adopted into a documentary. That was and remains my only concern.
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Isambard
08-22-2007, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So frequently (by atheists, muslims,) showing those christians who bomb abortion clinics is as fair as it would be always mentioning Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot in talking about atheism. Got it?
Apples and Oranges.

Atheism is a lack of believe in a deity(s). Thats it.

Cant get an ideology out of a negative.

To give you and example. Stalin didnt believe in fairies. Neither did Jesus or Muhammed.

Were Jesus and Muhammed then communists?

See the problem?
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snakelegs
08-22-2007, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I don't know, I will give it a chance. However, like I said, I have my doubts about any documentary which seeks to create some moral equivalancy between American Evangelicals and terrorists. Notice I didn't say Islamic terrorists, that isn't even the issue. I just don't want to see the statements of Rosie O'Donnel about U.S. Christianity being the same as the Taliban adopted into a documentary. That was and remains my only concern.
when it comes down to the individual doing a specific act, to me it seems to be equivalent.
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Keltoi
08-22-2007, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
when it comes down to the individual doing a specific act, to me it seems to be equivalent.
Actually I'm forced to agree with you when I begin to use your line of reasoning. Of course Eric Rudolph is no better than Muhammed Atta. I suppose I'm guilty of the same group protection reaction that many Muslims seem drawn to. Kudos for making a good point.
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Amadeus85
08-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I don't get it.
Did Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot, commit there evil to spread atheism?
When they murdered someone did they say this will make "No God" pleased?
I see the same conection as between a fish and a bicycle.

But that's just me.
No but Stalin for example killed hundreds of priests and burned thousands of churches to destroy religion in Russia. He did it because he thought that atheism is superior to religion, and faith is dangerous for communist's rule.
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czgibson
08-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So frequently (by atheists, muslims,) showing those christians who bomb abortion clinics is as fair as it would be always mentioning Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot in talking about atheism. Got it?
[The choice of Hitler in that group is an odd one. I always thought his religious views were ambiguous. See here:

Hitler's Religious Beliefs]

In any case, the point you're attempting to make is clear, but I don't understand why you think it is unfair.

No sensible person thinks that all Christians bomb abortion clinics, any more than they think that all Muslims are terrorists, but the point is that, as well as having potential for great good, religions do also have great potential for misuse and wrongdoing.

The communist dictators you mention were atheists, following Karl Marx, whose ideas they claimed to be working from. There are two important things to remember here:

1. Marx's main project in his life (and his legacy to the world) is a far-reaching critique of capitalist society. What should replace it was an idea only sketched out by Marx; his followers completed the project as they saw fit.

2. Atheism is undeniably an important part of Marx's dialectical materialism, but it is not the most important part. His ideas are chiefly concerned with what he called 'Political Economy'; he actually wrote comparatively little about religion.

Communism is essentially an economic idea, not a mission to rid the world of religion. To say that Stalin and Pol Pot committed their atrocities in the name of atheism is absurd: they believed a lot of other things besides 'there is no god'.

Christians who bomb abortion clinics claim to be doing the Lord's work, as do Islamic suicide bombers. We think of them as wrong, of course, and possibly unrepresentative, but there is no doubt where their allegiances lie. Look at this lot, for example:

Abortion-related violence

They sincerely believe they are doing the right thing, and there is little anyone can say to stop them, because they have faith on their side.

Peace
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wilberhum
08-22-2007, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
No but Stalin for example killed hundreds of priests and burned thousands of churches to destroy religion in Russia. He did it because he thought that atheism is superior to religion, and faith is dangerous for communist's rule.
When thing go fast, it is easy to miss a post.
I said in post 29:
stop them from believing in God? I don't think so.
I think it is simply about power.
Religion is a power and none of them were willing to share power.
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Isambard
08-23-2007, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
When thing go fast, it is easy to miss a post.
I said in post 29:
He skipped over mine too :-\
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north_malaysian
08-23-2007, 04:49 AM
I've seen Jewish God's Warrior last night (9.00 PM Malaysian Time).

I'm shocked to see that a western media like CNN exposed about Jewish settlements - on how illegal and tricky those settlements were established.

And also about AIPAC and Jerusalem Reclamation Programme too...

Tonight... it supposed to be Muslim God's Warriors right?.... Inshallah I'll be watching it too.
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snakelegs
08-23-2007, 09:36 AM
i don't know about fox news, but it is quite possible to find articles about settler terrorism and illegal settlements. you can also find these things in the hebrew press btw.
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wilberhum
08-23-2007, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I've seen Jewish God's Warrior last night (9.00 PM Malaysian Time).

I'm shocked to see that a western media like CNN exposed about Jewish settlements - on how illegal and tricky those settlements were established.

And also about AIPAC and Jerusalem Reclamation Programme too...

Tonight... it supposed to be Muslim God's Warriors right?.... Inshallah I'll be watching it too.
You always assume there is bias. Now you know it is true.
It is just the the bias lies with you, not the Western News.

You alway see people saying how bias the news is.
But if you ask for an example, all of those thousands of examples can't be found. :hiding:
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Isambard
08-23-2007, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
You always assume there is bias. Now you know it is true.
It is just the the bias lies with you, not the Western News.

You alway see people saying how bias the news is.
But if you ask for an example, all of those thousands of examples can't be found. :hiding:
Why of course there is a bias!...a bias to whom thou really depends on who you ask...

Christians- "Its has a liberal bias!"
Muslims- "A zionist bias!"
Socialists/communists- "It has a capitolist bias!"
Atheists/anti-theists-"It has a xtian bias!"
Minorities-" It has a while bias!"
Whites- "It has a bias agaisnt whites!"
Feminists "Its bias agaisnt women!"
Maculinists- "It has a bias agaisnt men!"

etc.

Seeing how the media seemingly has a bias agaisnt everyone, Ill take it as a sign that its fair.
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wilberhum
08-23-2007, 07:26 PM
Mean while back on topic. I thought last night was good. Made a lot of things fall together. I'm looking forward to tonight.
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Isambard
08-23-2007, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Mean while back on topic. I thought last night was good. Made a lot of things fall together. I'm looking forward to tonight.
Dont suppose you or anyone else has any links where I can watch it online?:hmm:
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wilberhum
08-23-2007, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Dont suppose you or anyone else has any links where I can watch it online?:hmm:
It is on CNN only. If you can't get CNN you are surely out of luck.
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Isambard
08-23-2007, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
It is on CNN only. If you can't get CNN you are surely out of luck.
Found it :D

Muslims- http://youtube.com/watch?v=xh7WkyaeRBg

Jews- http://youtube.com/watch?v=kkKhPLAyDsM

Interesting stuff :D
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north_malaysian
08-24-2007, 02:19 AM
I've seen last night about Muslim God's Warrior.....

When they showed about the Palestinian man who decided to kill Jews after he cant save a girl killed by Jews... suddenly I remembered the story about Baruch Goldstein ... before he killed the people in the mosque he also had an experience that he cant help a jewish old man killed by Palestinian.

I dont like they interviewed Ayaan Hirsi Ali to "talk" about Islam.... because she's not well-versed in Islamic knowledge... she just talk whatever she wants to talk..

Another thing about the "hidden Imam", luckily I'm not a Shiite... they even have a centre to study about the re-appearance of the Imam!!! For me, as a Muslim.. it's not a duty to wait for Al Mahdi...
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MuhammadRizan
08-24-2007, 08:00 AM
i smell hypocrisy in the air....
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Amadeus85
08-24-2007, 11:35 AM
When they show the part about christians? Does anyone know?
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wilberhum
08-24-2007, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
When they show the part about christians? Does anyone know?
It was last night, I thought it was good tool. The other two were on youtube. So I bet you can find it there.
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Pygoscelis
08-25-2007, 05:27 PM
Strangest reaction I've yet seen.

People are criticizing the christian portion of this without seeing it. I've seen it. It DOES NOT compare activists with terrorists. You're defensiveness is blocking you from seeing some really good journalism.

It actually is biased TOWARDS christianity. It only covers Falwell etc and doesn't even mention what WOULD be comparable to islamic terrorism. There is no mention of the Lord's Resistance Army. The truth about Christianity's radicalism isn't that it is inherently lesser than the other two, but that it is more often found in more modern places, and thus subdued more by secularism. Just look at the religion's history and this becomes obvious.

I actually expected the christian reaction (kind of a hopeless kneejerkism that I've come to expect) but was hoping to hear from Muslims what they think of the three episodes.

God's Christian Warriors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orG59apfX9I

Overall regarding "Warriors" I've found all three episodes to be smartly balanced. In the Islam episode for example there is a segment on a modern western muslim in the US who's "jihad" is merely wearing her headscarf in public and managing to merge muslim worship with western life.
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smile
08-26-2007, 01:56 PM
I was expecting something really good, especially for the muslim warriors
but it bored me because most of the film was taken from the other Osama bin Laden film they previously showed
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Amadeus85
08-26-2007, 09:21 PM
I have just finished watching God's Jewish Wariors. My opinion is that it was so interesting. Maybe it's because i very like religious topics and especially orthodox judaism. Now im watching the God's christian warriors. We will see ...
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islamirama
08-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Strangest reaction I've yet seen.

People are criticizing the christian portion of this without seeing it. I've seen it. It DOES NOT compare activists with terrorists. You're defensiveness is blocking you from seeing some really good journalism.

It actually is biased TOWARDS christianity. It only covers Falwell etc and doesn't even mention what WOULD be comparable to islamic terrorism. There is no mention of the Lord's Resistance Army. The truth about Christianity's radicalism isn't that it is inherently lesser than the other two, but that it is more often found in more modern places, and thus subdued more by secularism. Just look at the religion's history and this becomes obvious.

I actually expected the christian reaction (kind of a hopeless kneejerkism that I've come to expect) but was hoping to hear from Muslims what they think of the three episodes.

God's Christian Warriors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orG59apfX9I

Overall regarding "Warriors" I've found all three episodes to be smartly balanced. In the Islam episode for example there is a segment on a modern western muslim in the US who's "jihad" is merely wearing her headscarf in public and managing to merge muslim worship with western life.
Good analaysis dude. Christianity holy warriors first came as crusaders and either killed, forced convert or exiled people of the lands they invaded. Today's warriors are of two kind instead of just two in one like the crusaders. Today we have the jerry farewell and savage kind that mouth off all they can and the private Christian armies (check them out on youtube), and then you have missionary holy warriors in Asia, china and Africa that force you to accept Christianity in exchange for food and aide.

Jews holy warriors are the Zionists that occupy Palestine and kill civilians without having to give account and then their mossad operating in different countries, including iraq. Let's not forget the havoc they raged in England at birth of israel for England trying to tell Israel to behave and stay in the boundaries given to it by the UN.
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wilberhum
08-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Christianity holy warriors first came as crusaders
I don't think she ment to cover "History of the World".

I do agree that there should have been some mention of groups like the Lord's Resistance Army. So it was a little light on that side but all in all I thought it was excellent and I think Christiane Amanpour did a bang up job.
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 10:59 PM
in the jewish episode, did they deal with baruch goldstein?
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wilberhum
08-28-2007, 11:04 PM
I not sure, but I think so. Isn't the the Jew that enterd the Mosque and killed a bunch and wonded more before they were able to kill him? If so then Yes?

It was kind of two parts. The first was about the problem they created in Israel and the second part was about financing. I know the US government helped a lot. But they help more than I thought. I was also amazed about all the private fnd raising that goes on in the US. I was discusted that people like Carter were demonized because they were not Pro-Israel.
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 11:23 PM
yep, that's the one. did it go into the fund raising and pro-zionist political lobbying by christian fundamentalists? (strange bedfellows indeed).
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wilberhum
08-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
yep, that's the one. did it go into the fund raising and pro-zionist political lobbying by christian fundamentalists? (strange bedfellows indeed).
Ya, in good detail. That was one that really took me back.
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 11:31 PM
thanks. it sounds like it was really pretty good.
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wilberhum
08-28-2007, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
thanks. it sounds like it was really pretty good.
If you can witch youtube is is all there. The shows were really good. A better than average watch.
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Amadeus85
08-28-2007, 11:38 PM
Palestinians are supported (in many ways) by over billion of muslims worldwide. many muslim countries dont even have diplomatic relationships with Israel, because of Palestinians. And Israel is supported so openly by USA only.Christiansa made many bad things to Jews in history, i think that supporting Israel can at least somehow pay back for those evil doings. I mean, if there are people who feel that supporting zionism and Israel is their religious duty, so we should respect this. You see, in USA pro Israel attitude is norm, but here in Europe its different. being pro Palestinian is something normal. So i think that its fair.
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Palestinians are supported (in many ways) by over billion of muslims worldwide. many muslim countries dont even have diplomatic relationships with Israel, because of Palestinians. And Israel is supported so openly by USA only.Christiansa made many bad things to Jews in history, i think that supporting Israel can at least somehow pay back for those evil doings. I mean, if there are people who feel that supporting zionism and Israel is their religious duty, so we should respect this. You see, in USA pro Israel attitude is norm, but here in Europe its different. being pro Palestinian is something normal. So i think that its fair.
i really don't think that they are motivated by guilt or sense of justice. i think it is because of their religious vision about armageddon, that requires all the jews to gather in israel, where they will offered to accept christianity or die.
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Amadeus85
08-28-2007, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i really don't think that they are motivated by guilt or sense of justice. i think it is because of their religious vision about armageddon, that requires all the jews to gather in israel, where they will offered to accept christianity or die.
Well probably you are right, but if you remember from this programme, John Hagee (dont know if i correctly write his surname), pastor, explained why he feels that Jews are his brothers in faith. Its not that he wishes them hellfire.There is honest friendship between such evangelical christians and zionist Jews. BTW Jews actually think that christians will burn in hell, so there are no double standards in this. :)
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snakelegs
08-28-2007, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Well probably you are right, but if you remember from this programme, John Hagee (dont know if i correctly write his surname), pastor, explained why he feels that Jews are his brothers in faith. Its not that he wishes them hellfire.There is honest friendship between such evangelical christians and zionist Jews. BTW Jews actually think that christians will burn in hell, so there are no double standards in this. :)
incorrect. non-jews do not burn in hell if they live as decent, moral and ethical human beings and do good deeds. if you doubt this ask rav on the jewish thread in comparative religion.
whereas non-christians burn in hell no matter how good a life they have led.
p.s. i didn't see the program (have no tv and so far haven't had time to watch it on youtube - that's why i was asking about it).
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Amadeus85
08-29-2007, 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
incorrect. non-jews do not burn in hell if they live as decent, moral and ethical human beings and do good deeds. if you doubt this ask rav on the jewish thread in comparative religion.
whereas non-christians burn in hell no matter how good a life they have led.
p.s. i didn't see the program (have no tv and so far haven't had time to watch it on youtube - that's why i was asking about it).
Ok i admit that my knowledge about judaism isnt impressive, my mistake.Anyway, in my opinion the part of this programme about judaism was very interesting. Amybe its because i am charmed by orthodox judaism. :mmokay:
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Basirah
08-29-2007, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im sorry to say this but for me this programm is just simply anti christian propaganda. This programme compares conservative (radical?) christians who take part in cultural struggle against abortion and against legalizing same sex marriages, with muslim terrorists who kill people. For me its insane.
Correct. Christianity went on their genocidal spree years ago, thankfuly violence is not tolerated in Christian lands anymore because of secularims.
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snakelegs
08-29-2007, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Ok i admit that my knowledge about judaism isnt impressive, my mistake.Anyway, in my opinion the part of this programme about judaism was very interesting. Amybe its because i am charmed by orthodox judaism. :mmokay:
it's interesting. they have a number of things in common with islam.
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Keltoi
08-29-2007, 01:39 AM
I have to correct one thing. While there are many Christians who support Israel because of religious belief, overall the support of Israel is due to historical and political precedent, which has its roots in the post-WWII environment. Granted, there are many Evangelicals who believe in the apocalyptic prophecies in the Book of Revelations, but I believe the support of Israel would still exist without those elements.
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snakelegs
08-29-2007, 02:39 AM
you have a point and of course, no one can say what motivates all christians.
but i think what i said is true about the christian evangelicals and they are the biggest christian supporters of zionism.
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Pygoscelis
08-29-2007, 08:36 AM
I think a lot of the west's support for Israel comes out of not so much a link to Israel as a fear of the muslim states. I think Israel is seen by a lot of western politicians as a buffer state, keeping them from us.

I think a lot of western politicians believe that if it was in the power of Iran and other muslim states to do so, they would whipe out the western world immediately and without provocation. I believe that is a misconception, and I believe it is a powerful one.

If the islamic states ever managed to destroy that misconception (and the current president of Iran doesn't help in that) and if what Israel has done to the palestinians (as seen in this documentary) gets more well known, the Islamic states may take the perceived moral high ground. And I think Israel relies on having the perceived moral high ground and if Israel loses it Israel is finished.
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Basirah
08-29-2007, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I think a lot of the west's support for Israel comes out of not so much a link to Israel as a fear of the muslim states. I think Israel is seen by a lot of western politicians as a buffer state, keeping them from us.

I think a lot of western politicians believe that if it was in the power of Iran and other muslim states to do so, they would whipe out the western world immediately and without provocation. I believe that is a misconception, and I believe it is a powerful one.

If the islamic states ever managed to destroy that misconception (and the current president of Iran doesn't help in that) and if what Israel has done to the palestinians (as seen in this documentary) gets more well known, the Islamic states may take the perceived moral high ground. And I think Israel relies on having the perceived moral high ground and if Israel loses it Israel is finished.

israel is seen by me as a intellectual state which has great achievements in science and very useful areas. It is an pond of hope in an oasis of religious extremism. yes, some israelis are extremists to, but the country is run by secularists.
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Isambard
08-29-2007, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Basirah
israel is seen by me as a intellectual state which has great achievements in science and very useful areas. It is an pond of hope in an oasis of religious extremism. yes, some israelis are extremists to, but the country is run by secularists.
Thats still no excuse to break international law, especially this openly.
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islamirama
08-29-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Thats still no excuse to break international law, especially this openly.
Exactly!

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (View Source)


1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Source)
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 04:46 PM
I truly love distortions. Israel is a country.
Palestinians are a group of people.
The UN issues Resolutions against countries, not people. :skeleton:
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islamirama
08-29-2007, 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I truly love distortions. Israel is a country.
Palestinians are a group of people.
The UN issues Resolutions against countries, not people. :skeleton:
Correction:

Palestine is a country (look at the maps before 1948)
"israel" is an occupied Territory by terrorists funded by westerner powers

UN resolutions are against western imposed "country" on the local inhabitants
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Correction:

Palestine is a country (look at the maps before 1948)
"israel" is an occupied Territory by terrorists funded by westerner powers

UN resolutions are against western imposed "country" on the local inhabitants
Read again it dose not say "Palestine", it says "Palestinians".
Your source, not mine. :?
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islamirama
08-29-2007, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Read again it dose not say "Palestine", it says "Palestinians".
Your source, not mine. :?
Chop a country into pieces, occupy it and stmp your name stamp on their land and erase their's from the map, and you think they don't have a country anymore? What do you think Palestinians means?....people of Palestine!
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Chop a country into pieces, occupy it and stmp your name stamp on their land and erase their's from the map, and you think they don't have a country anymore? What do you think Palestinians means?....people of Palestine!
You still don't get it do you?

Tell me how many UN Resolutions there are against. Say the Russians?
Or the Poles? Or the Australians? Or the Germans? Or <Insert the name of any people>?

The answer is none. :D
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NobleMuslimUK
08-29-2007, 05:35 PM
In my view after seeing all three episodes, this programme is trying to promote to the world that religion and religious people are nothing but trouble, they are trying to promote atheism.
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
In my view after seeing all three episodes, this programme is trying to promote to the world that religion and religious people are nothing but trouble, they are trying to promote atheism.
What? Promote atheism? :?
Da, Christiane Amanpour is a devout Christian. :thumbs_up

Religion has always been a source of problems. It just suits you better to shuffle it off on "Evil Atheists". :rollseyes
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alibaba
08-29-2007, 05:44 PM
I saw that show.
It showed that there are radicals in all religions. Not just Islam
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by alibaba
Where did you hear she is a devout Christian?
Edit.
(Oh sorry, I thought you were some one else)

Devout is an openion. Christian is a fact.
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Isambard
08-29-2007, 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
In my view after seeing all three episodes, this programme is trying to promote to the world that religion and religious people are nothing but trouble, they are trying to promote atheism.
Where did it ever say "Go Atheism!"?
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NobleMuslimUK
08-29-2007, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Where did it ever say "Go Atheism!"?
To be honest the documentary was biased in the sense that it let a few radical extremists represent the three major religions, hence giving a bad name to all three religions. This in turn gives a negative viewpoint to the religious non practising people. How long before they find themselves becoming an atheist which is also a religion in my view, but atheists hate to admit that.
Although I like the fact that the documentary shed light on what people think and get upto in various parts of the world.
The documentary was unfair on all three religions, as it let Israel represent judaism, america represent christianity and iran represent Islam.
A genuine documentary of this type requires years of research and a broader view.
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wilberhum
08-29-2007, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
To be honest the documentary was biased in the sense that it let a few radical extremists represent the three major religions, hence giving a bad name to all three religions. This in turn gives a negative viewpoint to the religious non practising people. How long before they find themselves becoming an atheist which is also a religion in my view, but atheists hate to admit that.
Although I like the fact that the documentary shed light on what people think and get upto in various parts of the world.
The documentary was unfair on all three religions, as it let Israel represent judaism, america represent christianity and iran represent Islam.
A genuine documentary of this type requires years of research and a broader view.
You obviously missed the whole point of the documentary.

Read the title. Think about it for a min. Concentrate on the word "Warriors".
Read the title again. Maybe this time you will get it. :skeleton:
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snakelegs
08-29-2007, 11:39 PM
well, i watched god's jewish warriors on youtube last night. i thought it was pretty good.
so far, this is the only one i've seen of the series.
noble,
i think the documentaries were just trying to show that there are religious extremists in all 3 religions. this in no way implies that there are also not decent people in all 3 religions. but these docs were about the "warriors" in each.
(if anything maybe it's good for people to see that muslims don't have a monopoly. for example, i think a lot of people don't even realize that there are jewish terrorists.)
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
well, i watched god's jewish warriors on youtube last night. i thought it was pretty good.
so far, this is the only one i've seen of the series.
noble,
i think the documentaries were just trying to show that there are religious extremists in all 3 religions. this in no way implies that there are also not decent people in all 3 religions. but these docs were about the "warriors" in each.
(if anything maybe it's good for people to see that muslims don't have a monopoly. for example, i think a lot of people don't even realize that there are jewish terrorists.)
CNN tried to pretend that christianity and judaism make so many terrorists as islam do. So they showed few Jews who commited crimes in the name of God, few christians who destroyed abortion clinics. Well, thats all i guess, its sum up about 10, maybe 15 people together. Yeah, those christian terrorists really make me scared :mmokay:
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 12:25 AM
well, i haven't seen the muslim or christian episodes yet.
there are plenty jewish terrorists in the occupied territories. they are every bit as good as their muslim brothers! i thought that segment was good.
aaron, i think it is the same mindset. at any time in history there may be more in one group and less in another. but the mentality is the same whether the individual terrorist is a jew, muslim, christian or hindu. (there are hindu terrorists also). the religion may be different but the the mentality is the same. for that matter there have been terrorists who act in the name of a political ideology - so it is not unique to religion either.
don't forget the program isn't saying that religion is like this. just that all religions have their um... more dreadful specimens. :D
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جوري
08-30-2007, 12:25 AM
perhaps the series just missed the Haganah - Irgun, Lehi Stern Gang.. who have committed countless terrorists acts up to and including bombing the British 'good will' ambassadors that came to help them establish their colonial settler state.. plus various countless other acts from bombing of the SS liberty to the lavon affairs, to bombing of king David hotel.. I didn't watch the program personally.. I hope they would have in the least mentioned the above? just a handful indeed.. so many poorly and insufficiently educated fools on this forum.. I am guessing by choice?
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 12:32 AM
well, they only had 2 hours! ;D
they did cover baruch goldstein and some of the other gems among the settlers, including the ones that bombed a palestinian girls' school as well as the nuts who planned to blow up the dome of the rock.
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Yanal
08-30-2007, 12:33 AM
:sl: :sl:
Brother Islamirama i still don't get the thread's title i havn't watched the link out but does that mean that i cna't understand the title and is it rated for kids:) need to know
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
well, i haven't seen the muslim or christian episodes yet.
there are plenty jewish terrorists in the occupied territories. they are every bit as good as their muslim brothers! i thought that segment was good.
aaron, i think it is the same mindset. at any time in history there may be more in one group and less in another. but the mentality is the same whether the individual terrorist is a jew, muslim, christian or hindu. (there are hindu terrorists also). the religion may be different but the the mentality is the same. for that matter there have been terrorists who act in the name of a political ideology - so it is not unique to religion either.
don't forget the program isn't saying that religion is like this. just that all religions have their um... more dreadful specimens. :D
Ok but didnt Amanpour noticed that great majority of christians in USA and Jews in Israel condemned using violence in divine name? I mean those christians who blowed up abortion clinics arent seen as martyrs or heroes even by fundamental christians. Majority of Jews, also orthodox condemned rabbi Cahane or Goldstein for their acts.
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 12:49 AM
as i said, i haven't seen the christian episode yet. yes, she did point out that most jews are against this. (though in my opinion most jews are not critical enough of israel). anyway, i hope she will point that out in the other 2 segments as well.
there are more muslim terrorists in operation at this time in history for many reasons. christians have done their share in history. jews hadn't for a long, long time until the zionist movement. and irreligious people have done their share too.
terrorism is terrorism.
the way i see it is that the series is about people who kill in the name of their religon. if there is no religion, people will kill in the name of a political ideology just as happily.
what makes people rationalize something as heinous as blowing up a school and believe that they are doing it in the name of some righteous cause?
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by Yanal
:sl: :sl:
Brother Islamirama i still don't get the thread's title i havn't watched the link out but does that mean that i cna't understand the title and is it rated for kids:) need to know
yanal, it is a 6 hour series run by CNN about religious extremism/terrorism.
1st night is jews, 2nd muslims and 3rd christians. that is why the thread is called "god's warrirors" - people who kill in the name of god. that was the name of the program.
i wouldn't have watched it but there was so much discussion here that i finally watched the 1st segment (jewish warriors) on youtube.
as for a kid watching it, i don't think you'll see anything that you haven't seen on the news.
but there's probably something better and more uplifting you could do with your time. :D
i just got so curious, i had to watch it.
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Yanal
08-30-2007, 01:11 AM
JazaKAllah Khayr ok but is it really 6hours no way not watching it but when the muslim part comes after how much time?
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 01:20 AM
http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...&search=Search
you'll have to search through to find each segment. if you watch the muslim one, you should really watch the other 2 as well so you see bad jews and bad christians as well as bad muslims. but it's 6 hours all together (2 for each religion).
but do you really wanna watch a bunch of bad people doing bad things?
normally, i would find better things to do, but i got nosey cuz there's been so much discussion here.
it isn't especially cheerful or anthing. as i said you can probably find a better way to spend 6 hours. but the youtube posts are in small 9 minute bites so you don't have to watch them all at once.
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north_malaysian
08-30-2007, 03:36 AM
The Christian God's Warriors is so biased...

Why when it's about Jews and Muslims, they travel all over the world...but for Christian God's Warriors they only concerntrated in USA... Why? Is it because there are no Christian God's Warriors in other countries?

And the "terrorist acts" shown for Christian God's warriors just abortion clinics being blown up.

How about National Liberation Army of Tripura, Lord's Resistence Army, Ambonese Christians etc?

How about Loula Abboud, a 19-year old Christian Lebanese girl who blew up herself in front a group of Israelis in 1985?
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NoName55
08-30-2007, 03:42 AM
How about National Liberation Army of Tripura, Lord's Resistence Army, Ambonese Christians etc?
I had the same impression. If a neutral person saw all 6 hours, (s)he is going to come out hating Jews and to a bigger extent Muslims.

Conclusion: A master stroke by the Evangelist

edit

BTW how did England deal with and stop IRA? by making its leaders government ministers and giving them freedom to rule themselves.

on the other hand how do they deal with Saudi terrorist? they destroy Afghanistan

how do they deal with terror masters of Iran, Syria and Lebanon? by destroying Iraq the only country that kept under control the Shi'ite monster next door

what a twisted world!
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 04:24 AM
It was like I mentioned the other day the christian one was more then bias it painted the extremists as heros as oposed to islam which they viewed as terriorists...see the christians in ireland (2 diffrent branches) have been fighting for years and its very violent but they never showed that, unless a person who lived there told me themselves i would have never known.

remeber its CNN ...its American... White Christian American and i dont mean it in a racist way just stating there largest target audience
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north_malaysian
08-30-2007, 04:34 AM
Originally Posted by zarhad
It was like I mentioned the other day the christian one was more then bias it painted the extremists as heros as oposed to islam which they viewed as terriorists...see the christians in ireland (2 diffrent branches) have been fighting for years and its very violent but they never showed that, unless a person who lived there told me themselves i would have never known.

remeber its CNN ...its American... White Christian American and i dont mean it in a racist way just stating there largest target audience
It seems that the Christian God's Warriors just want to make American Christians being "more religious".... just that... what a bummer.
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 04:50 AM
I had a friend that once told me the jews control the media (whole diffrent debate i don't feel like getting into) either way...apperently not CNN ...lol
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Isambard
08-30-2007, 04:57 AM
So much crying over bias. Muslims do bad things. Get over it.

I personally found the bit about Christians the most disgusting. At the least the two other groups have history of being kicked in the pills. The Christians however were top dogs for a very long time and only got slapped down when folks realized that retarding progress in the name of christ is a bad idea (let alone killing for him).

For those who missed it (and it seems alot of you did) the christians and said video are seeking to retard economic, social and political progress while promoting ignorance not on any sort of scientific grounds, but because "it feels good!". And they like the other two groups are crying about being oppressed...yet unlike the other two groups there is no history of it...

Stop pulling the victem card and watch the video again.
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north_malaysian
08-30-2007, 05:02 AM
Hey... I'm not saying that all Jews and Muslims are GOOD...

But why CNN potrayed both Muslim and Jew God's Warriors as killers and Christian God's Warriors as morality fighters.
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north_malaysian
08-30-2007, 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by zarhad
I had a friend that once told me the jews control the media (whole diffrent debate i don't feel like getting into) either way...apperently not CNN ...lol
Maybe AIPAC should do something.... like labelling CNN as ANTI-SEMITIC...:exhausted
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 05:09 AM
I know, there is good in bad in every society, cred, and religion and thats why i very rerely watch CNN it kills me to see how one sided they are...i cant believe they call that news, its ridicilous
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Hey... I'm not saying that all Jews and Muslims are GOOD...

But why CNN potrayed both Muslim and Jew God's Warriors as killers and Christian God's Warriors as morality fighters.
Well, i wont say about Jews and muslims, because i am not one of them, but North malaysian if you honestly look at the situation in USA (and rest of the world too) , with open eyes, you will see that all what those christian extremists do is fighting with pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism.
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Maybe AIPAC should do something.... like labelling CNN as ANTI-SEMITIC...:exhausted
Wel, i find it quite suspicous that CNN gave so much atention to exposing the evil zionist movement.
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:51 AM
yah but those christian extremists also create althose so called things you say they are fighting.

and im not crying bias, personally i dont think its fair to judge a large group or people over a few indiviguals
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by zarhad
...see the christians in ireland (2 diffrent branches) have been fighting for years and its very violent but they never showed that, unless a person who lived there told me themselves i would have never known.

War in Ireland had nothing to do with christian extremism. IRA was a marxist organization, radical left. Even Catholic Churche condemned them. They didnt kill English shouting Jesus Akbar. :offended:

remeber its CNN ...its American... White Christian American and i dont mean it in a racist way just stating there largest target audience
Sounds racist. But of course who cares about the racism against the white people. It doesnt exist right :happy:
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:52 AM
"fighting with pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism" they created it, they do it and they are fighting it?

not to say they are the only in the world but dont glorify christians
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:53 AM
sorry if i sounded racist, and everyone experences racisim
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by zarhad
yah but those christian extremists also create althose so called things you say they are fighting.

and im not crying bias, personally i dont think its fair to judge a large group or people over a few indiviguals
How they create those things? Because i dont understand. You say that christian fundamentalists are responsible for allowing abortion or pornography?
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:54 AM
im very light skinned compared to my family and husband and i have often found people venting their feelings towards afghans or muslims not knowing i belong to both groups..
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:55 AM
im not saying islamic societys are perfect but these things are dominated by the western world
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:55 AM
before my family came to canada they were virtually un heard of give or take
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zarhad
08-30-2007, 10:56 AM
works finished going home have a good day
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by zarhad
"fighting with pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism" they created it, they do it and they are fighting it?

not to say they are the only in the world but dont glorify christians
Listen Zarhad, let me explain you. All those evil things that you mentioned appeared not thanks to fundamentalist christians, but thanks to so called counter revolution of 60's in XX century. You know, hippies, free sex, rugs, rock and roll, LSD. It was this generation, that rejected conservative, christian values of traditional America and made abortion legal, and also the rest of those things. And now we have counter-counter revolution, christian movement of conservatives, like Moral majority, who try to bring America back to God.
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NoName55
08-30-2007, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Well, i wont say about Jews and muslims, because i am not one of them, but North malaysian if you honestly look at the situation in USA (and rest of the world too) , with open eyes, you will see that all what those christian extremists do is fighting with pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism.
even if that is so, does that represent the christians of world? why not include them if they can include Jews of Israel and Muslims of the world? Do jews and Muslims of USA go around marching in favor of pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism?

was it a program about people of seleted areas or the entire world?
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by NoName55
even if that is so, does that represent the christians of world? why not include them if the can include Jews of Israel and Muslims of the world? Do jews and Muslims of USA go around marching in favor of ornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism

was it a program about people of seleted areas or the entire world?
Here i agree with you completely NoName. I also think that it was mistake to show only christian fundamentalists in USA. Because is USA only christian country? Of course not. And christian radicals are in every christian majority country. Also in my country too. They should show also pentecostals from Brazil, Guatemala, Nigeria or Kenia, catholic fundamentalists from Italy, Poalnd and Philipinnes, protestant Brethren from Australia, protestan Mennonites from Canada. But then it would ahve to be much longer programme. :mmokay:
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NoName55
08-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Here i agree with you completely NoName. I also think that it was mistake to show christian fundamentalists in (only the ) USA. Because is USA only christian country? Of course not. And christian radicals are in every christian majority country. Also in my country too. They should show also pentecostals from Brazil, Guatemala, Nigeria or Kenia, catholic fundamentalists from Italy, Poalnd and Philipinnes, protestant Brethren from Australia. (not to forget UK &N.Ireland) But then it would ahve to be much longer programme. :mmokay:
Thanks wa salaam
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Isambard
08-30-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Listen Zarhad, let me explain you. All those evil things that you mentioned appeared not thanks to fundamentalist christians, but thanks to so called counter revolution of 60's in XX century. You know, hippies, free sex, rugs, rock and roll, LSD. It was this generation, that rejected conservative, christian values of traditional America and made abortion legal, and also the rest of those things. And now we have counter-counter revolution, christian movement of conservatives, like Moral majority, who try to bring America back to God.
America was *never* a theocracy or even based on religion. It was based on freedom of religion, but never religion itself. Hence seperation of church and state. What these fundies are trying to do is make America into the western Iran.

That is what the video is trying to show and that is what people should be weary of.
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Keltoi
08-30-2007, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
America was *never* a theocracy or even based on religion. It was based on freedom of religion, but never religion itself. Hence seperation of church and state. What these fundies are trying to do is make America into the western Iran.

That is what the video is trying to show and that is what people should be weary of.
I believe what he was referring to are the Christian roots of traditional America. Many people, myself included, believe that this country is not the same country it was even 50 years ago. Some of the changes have been good, i.e. the civil rights advances and so forth, but many changes have also been bad. The breakdown of the family, the apathy towards abortion, the hostility towards anything Christian in the public arena...those things and more lead many Christians to involve themselves more in the political arena.
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Isambard
08-30-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I believe what he was referring to are the Christian roots of traditional America. Many people, myself included, believe that this country is not the same country it was even 50 years ago. Some of the changes have been good, i.e. the civil rights advances and so forth, but many changes have also been bad. The breakdown of the family, the apathy towards abortion, the hostility towards anything Christian in the public arena...those things and more lead many Christians to involve themselves more in the political arena.
Seeing how the founding fathers were pretty much all deists and fought conservative christians, Id say everything is how it should be. Secular.
What the christians today in America are trying to do is the same as the Israelis did to the occupied territories or what the fundie muslims are trying to do over in the middle-east, that is take what isnt theirs.
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Amadeus85
08-30-2007, 06:33 PM
Im think that one of those pastor said it well. He said that this nation (USA) was build as a christian nation, and the radical secularists are the illegal aliens.
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Isambard
08-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im think that one of those pastor said it well. He said that this nation (USA) was build as a christian nation, and the radical secularists are the illegal aliens.
Founding fathers and constituion are based on secular reasoning and philosophy.

Sorry champ, America was never a christian nation.
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Im think that one of those pastor said it well. He said that this nation (USA) was build as a christian nation, and the radical secularists are the illegal aliens.
we are not a christian nation, though some christians are trying to make us one. :raging:
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snakelegs
08-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by zarhad
"fighting with pornography, abortion, euthanisia, same sex marriages,radical secularism" they created it, they do it and they are fighting it?

not to say they are the only in the world but dont glorify christians
i am most definitely not one to glorify christians.
but you are way off here. no religious people of any religion condone these things. for that matter, not all non-religious people do either.
western does not equal christian!
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Keltoi
08-30-2007, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Seeing how the founding fathers were pretty much all deists and fought conservative christians, Id say everything is how it should be. Secular.
What the christians today in America are trying to do is the same as the Israelis did to the occupied territories or what the fundie muslims are trying to do over in the middle-east, that is take what isnt theirs.
Sorry, but that isn't based in any shade of reality. The founding fathers did not fight "conservative Christians" on the issue of the religious roots and makeup of the United States. What the didn't want was a Catholic, Anglican, or Lutheran Church of the United States. It is simply historical revisionism to pretend the founding fathers didn't recognize and promote the Christian character of the nation.

As for what the "Christians" are trying to do in the U.S. being the same as Zionists and extremist Muslims...how? By participating in the political process? Because they hold demonstrations? What exactly are you referring to?
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Isambard
08-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Sorry, but that isn't based in any shade of reality. The founding fathers did not fight "conservative Christians" on the issue of the religious roots and makeup of the United States. What the didn't want was a Catholic, Anglican, or Lutheran Church of the United States. It is simply historical revisionism to pretend the founding fathers didn't recognize and promote the Christian character of the nation.

As for what the "Christians" are trying to do in the U.S. being the same as Zionists and extremist Muslims...how? By participating in the political process? Because they hold demonstrations? What exactly are you referring to?
*cough*

However it originated, it was undeniably a part of the treaty as approved by President John Adams and Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and ratified by the Senate by a unanimous vote.
Article 11, reads:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

For an in-depth discussion check out http://foru.ms/t5804444-constitution...e-framers.html
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Pygoscelis
08-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Basirah
israel is seen by me as a intellectual state which has great achievements in science and very useful areas. It is an pond of hope in an oasis of religious extremism. yes, some israelis are extremists to, but the country is run by secularists.
You're joking, yes?

The state was created to be "home of the Jews", and all Jews were (and are they still?) given citizenship just for showing up and often given land as well. Any state that gives THAT much favouratism towards one religious group borders on theocracy, no matter how much they try to look secular to please the west.
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Nabooly
08-30-2007, 11:16 PM
I watched all three of them and didnt like them. They were such a waste of time. For the muslim one, they spent 75&#37; of the time in Iran and the other 25% of the time with Osama bin Laden. Now sure, its called "God's Warriors" And osama claims to be one of them, but shouldnt they FIRST show what is actually RIGHT, then show what people in the religoun are doing WRONG?

And another thing, they should really differenciate between the Shiites and the Sunnis. Im sure that the time they spent in Iran would confuse the unesucated or non muslim viewer, making ALL muslims out as baboons who bang their chests.

And let me just state this now, el7amdillah i wasnt born a shi3a :) Waiting for the resurection of the "Imam". Give me a break.

And that lady that was like "I was once penniless. I prayed to imam Hussein and found lots of money in my drawer." Why doesnt she just pray to God?`
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wilberhum
08-30-2007, 11:20 PM
making ALL muslims out as baboons who bang their chests.
The intollorance of many Muslims continues to amaze me.
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Pygoscelis
08-30-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
The Christian God's Warriors is so biased...

Why when it's about Jews and Muslims, they travel all over the world...but for Christian God's Warriors they only concerntrated in USA... Why? Is it because there are no Christian God's Warriors in other countries?

And the "terrorist acts" shown for Christian God's warriors just abortion clinics being blown up.

How about National Liberation Army of Tripura, Lord's Resistence Army, Ambonese Christians etc?

How about Loula Abboud, a 19-year old Christian Lebanese girl who blew up herself in front a group of Israelis in 1985?
Yes. I was left with the same impression.

And I'm not sure its a deliberate thing either. They could be just that ignorant. I spoke about it to a christian friend of mine and her response was "They didn't show christian terrorism because there isn't any today".
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Nabooly
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
The intollorance of many Muslims continues to amaze me.
How is this intolerance? Im saying my complete and humble opinion a forum. Intolerant would be going outside with a huge sign that said that, or had i yelled at someone for doing it infront of me.
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wilberhum
08-30-2007, 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by Nabooly
How is this intolerance?
If you can't see it, you need help. :skeleton:
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Nabooly
08-30-2007, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
If you can't see it, you need help. :skeleton:
Oh wow! Thanks for the VERY enlightening reply! I totally understand now :muddlehea



:rolleyes:
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Pygoscelis
08-30-2007, 11:48 PM
As to this "USA founded on Christianity business", you need to keep in mind that the country was loosely Christian but mostly secular until McCarthyism which is when it got nutty Christian. That is when God went on the money and in the pledge.

The 60s pushed against that and so did non-christian immigrants in the force of multi-culturalism.

But God is still on the money and in the pledge and the few attempts to remove it have been overwhelmingly shouted down. The USA is more christian crazy than it was orignially intended to be.

That said, I don't really care, as I don't live there :)

I do care about my own nutty constitution though, which also refers to the holy (which in this case is at least mostly a relic from old brittish rule)
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islamirama
08-30-2007, 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
As to this "USA founded on Christianity business", you need to keep in mind that the country was loosely Christian but mostly secular until McCarthyism which is when it got nutty Christian. That is when God went on the money and in the pledge.

The 60s pushed against that and so did non-christian immigrants in the force of multi-culturalism.

But God is still on the money and in the pledge and the few attempts to remove it have been overwhelmingly shouted down. The USA is more christian crazy than it was orignially intended to be.

That said, I don't really care, as I don't live there :)

I do care about my own nutty constitution though, which also refers to the holy (which in this case is at least mostly a relic from old brittish rule)
US was founded on Christianity or built rather. Puritans came with their religion, and religion played a major role in US history. The great pure and white man genocide the native lowly indians, the pure white children of god forcing blacks into slavery. the pure white KKK came out and was widely supported by everyone for the most part. the salem witch trials, everything has christianity in it. It wasn't till the civil war that you started to see some separation of state and religion. Even then women were property of husbands as per bible and had no rights, they had to fight for their rights as early as 1930s.
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wilberhum
08-31-2007, 04:34 PM
The US with all it's negative history, just keeps getting better.

That one of the good things that happen when people have freedoms. :thumbs_up
Reply

Keltoi
08-31-2007, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
*cough*

However it originated, it was undeniably a part of the treaty as approved by President John Adams and Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and ratified by the Senate by a unanimous vote.
Article 11, reads:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

For an in-depth discussion check out http://foru.ms/t5804444-constitution...e-framers.html
A Treaty with Tripoli has nothing to do with the topic in question, besides the one line I'm sure you intended to be an answer all statement, which it isn't. Of course the U.S. wasn't "founded" upon Christianity, as there is no Church of the United States. That doesn't change the Christian character of the nation from its very beginning. We're aren't talking legal designations, we are talking about the culture of a nation. Nobody wanted a theocracy, and no rational human being wants a theocracy now. However, nearly everything about the American family, community, celebrations, and culture was based in the Western Christian tradition.
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Keltoi
08-31-2007, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
US was founded on Christianity or built rather. Puritans came with their religion, and religion played a major role in US history. The great pure and white man genocide the native lowly indians, the pure white children of god forcing blacks into slavery. the pure white KKK came out and was widely supported by everyone for the most part. the salem witch trials, everything has christianity in it. It wasn't till the civil war that you started to see some separation of state and religion. Even then women were property of husbands as per bible and had no rights, they had to fight for their rights as early as 1930s.

Here is the opposite side of the coin. Religion had very little to do with the federal government. The Civil War had nothing to do with separation of church and state either.
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Ghira
09-04-2007, 01:20 AM
God's warriors can be seen on youtube...11 parts. Only watched 3 parts.
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snakelegs
09-04-2007, 04:02 AM
it's 11 parts each - for each of the 3 religions.
so far, i've only seen the jewish parts.
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