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View Full Version : Refuting Critics Without Ever Pointing Your Finger



Science101
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
This morning I couldn't stop thinking about the "Attack on Islam at Interactive Bible Home Page" thread. I was up all night writing, and while laying in bed to take a nap, I started thinking about something that happened once when someone who represents the philosophy of the now unnamed website making fun of everyone here, started goading me.

And in the General forum I posted a new thread for the "O Muslims! Don`t BLAME others" video and even though I'm probably not what anyone here would consider to be a Muslim it's good advice for me too because even though many of the claims that anger us can be shown to be wrong, it's hard to challenge them without pointing fingers. They thrive on that, it can make them stronger, us weaker. So I thought that my experience in a similar situation would be helpful. It describes one way I changed myself, instead of trying to change the other person, and it worked very very well.

For a few years I was very active in the Intelligent Design debate, and to a lesser degree still am. In Kansas this political movement tried to change the wording of the Kansas public school standards in such a way that Biblical scripture could be considered science, so in essence some were trying to turn science into a part of Christian religion by removing the requirement that only allows "naturalistic" explanations in science. Or in other words they were trying to substitute "natural" explanations with "supernatural" ones then claim that their religion was science.

This other person who was very vocal in the movement was very taunting, they goaded me all the time. At the time I was looking into how the parts of a cell could have come together (were created) and they thought it was hilarious. The more they taunted me the harder I tried to prove that science can understand how creation was possible. Then I wrote a presentation on self-assembly, for the forum where people from Kansas were gathering, and another person who is a Creationist but more open minded to new ideas loved it! She even showed it to her child. She liked the way I was not saying that God doesn't exist, I was just showing how Allah/God can create life, in more detail than scriptures give us. This Creationist liking my work was already a big victory for me, and I did not have to point my finger at the one who was goading me while they pointed theirs, I did some research and presented something educational that some on their side actually liked.

Their goading still continued. Perhaps my making progress made them even more taunting. But instead of wasting my time going back to pointing my finger at them I kept working on my presentation. In time I had an easy to do experiment that required no fancy scientific equipment to do. I showed it to scientists I knew for some "peer review" and also took the advice that did have merit from this person, to make sure I was being fair to their side, then posted it in a few places on the internet.

Next, their goading took the form of their taunting me to have my work published in a science journal. They thought such a simple experiment would only be laughed at by scientists, like they were laughing at me. So I looked up how to present such an experiment in a more professional format, more teacherly. Then I rewrote it again and it was even much better than it was before. I then sent it to a couple dozen places on the web where teachers are, and it started spreading from there. And believe it or not it's now scheduled to be published in a nationwide education journal! Scientists will afterwards be announcing that such a thing is easily possible, although I'm not sure if it's to help my experiment along, or not, but I do know that the person who was goading me is about to get a much bigger surprised than they ever imagined. And when you think about it, this person who was taunting me, did me a favor! I even thanked them for all the help. I did not get adversarial, I was genuinely thankful and friendly about it, but oh boy did that ever get them steamed up!! :grumbling

Anyway, you might have already guessed what experiment I'm talking about. The "Self-Assembly Of Real Cell Membranes Experiment" that is here. If you didn't already see it yet then here is the link:

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...xperiment.html

So now you know how that experiment came to be. And now know one way to refute those who make fun of you, without ever having to point your finger back at them. When properly used, in a peaceful and civil way, their humiliation makes us strong. It's something I learned years ago, it works.
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جوري
08-27-2007, 07:34 AM
I got through the first three paragraphs, they were very good, will finish the rest tomorrow.. good job thus far
peace!
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Science101
08-27-2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks PurestAmbrosia!

The best is yet to come. :happy:
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Woodrow
09-05-2007, 06:57 PM
Let us try again and let us keep it one topic per thread.
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Sarada
09-06-2007, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
This morning I couldn't stop thinking about the "Attack on Islam at Interactive Bible Home Page" thread. I was up all night writing, and while laying in bed to take a nap, I started thinking about something that happened once when someone who represents the philosophy of the now unnamed website making fun of everyone here, started goading me.

And in the General forum I posted a new thread for the "O Muslims! Don`t BLAME others" video and even though I'm probably not what anyone here would consider to be a Muslim it's good advice for me too because even though many of the claims that anger us can be shown to be wrong, it's hard to challenge them without pointing fingers. They thrive on that, it can make them stronger, us weaker. So I thought that my experience in a similar situation would be helpful. It describes one way I changed myself, instead of trying to change the other person, and it worked very very well.
...

This other person who was very vocal in the movement was very taunting, they goaded me all the time. ...

Their goading still continued. Perhaps my making progress made them even more taunting. But instead of wasting my time going back to pointing my finger at them I kept working on my presentation. ...

Next, their goading took the form of their taunting me to have my work published in a science journal. They thought such a simple experiment would only be laughed at by scientists, like they were laughing at me. So I looked up how to present such an experiment in a more professional format, more teacherly....

And believe it or not it's now scheduled to be published in a nationwide education journal!

And when you think about it, this person who was taunting me, did me a favor! I even thanked them for all the help. I did not get adversarial, I was genuinely thankful and friendly about it, but oh boy did that ever get them steamed up!!...

And now (you) know one way to refute those who make fun of you, without ever having to point your finger back at them. When properly used, in a peaceful and civil way, their humiliation makes us strong. It's something I learned years ago, it works.
Salaam Science 101,

This is a valuable lesson, thank-you very, very much for sharing it with us.

This approach has several advantages:

1. it maintains one's dignity by not stooping down to their level. I have witnessed arguments in which some of the participants ended up acting like a pack of rabid wild dogs. Where is the dignity in that?

2. it is a peaceful way to win an argument, or, at least have the chance to have one's point of view taken seriously.

3. walking away with dignity whilst leaving the rabble to scrabble amongst themselves, you have shown that you are well on the path to a greater understanding of God's wisdom and mercy.

I must, however, take issue with your statement that
[their humiliation makes us strong
.

We must never rejoice at the pain and suffering of others, in whatever form.
(Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord)

What really made you strong and more elevated spiritually, was using your wisdom and mercy to make your point, rather than degrading yourself by entering into the pit.:awesome:
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IbnAbdulHakim
09-06-2007, 11:29 AM
welldone science101, it isnt always easy to ignore those blasted pointed fingers. Congratulations for being the bigger man :) and indeed it is a great lesson !
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Science101
09-07-2007, 02:44 AM
Thanks Sarada and IbnAbdulHakim! I'm very proud that you like it!

format_quote Originally Posted by Sarada
We must never rejoice at the pain and suffering of others, in whatever form.
(Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord)
I agree. That is something I could have added but it didn't occur to me while writing. Your point is well taken.

With the world now connected via internet I think it is of vital importance that we all learn how to get along without fighting. Especially now that culture shock has many of us wondering if the world will ever be at peace. But I think that if we look for things we have in common, not look for things that make us different, we will find a whole lot of nice things to talk about that will make everyone friends! That is something easy that everyone can do to change ourselves for the better. :happy:
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Sarada
09-07-2007, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Science101
Thanks Sarada and IbnAbdulHakim! I'm very proud that you like it!



I agree. That is something I could have added but it didn't occur to me while writing. Your point is well taken.

With the world now connected via internet I think it is of vital importance that we all learn how to get along without fighting. Especially now that culture shock has many of us wondering if the world will ever be at peace. But I think that if we look for things we have in common, not look for things that make us different, we will find a whole lot of nice things to talk about that will make everyone friends! That is something easy that everyone can do to change ourselves for the better. :happy:
:rock: :awesome: :alright: :bravo:

Salaam Science,

that is one of the best things i have read on this forum! I have already given your reps recently, otherwise I would give you some. I'll wait until I've found some other members to praise, and then you'll get your reps.

:awesome: :bravo: :alright: :rock:
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