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zarhad
09-07-2007, 07:26 AM
found this on another site, interisting and controvertial option peice




Women's Rights and Equality in Islam

At the beginning Islam was the most revolutionary liberalization of women's rights the civilized world has ever seen. But afterwards Muslims became ignorant of this and now Muslim countries are the scene of some of the worst abuses of women's rights. As the Latin proverb says, "Corruptio optimi pessima" (When the best is corrupted, it becomes the worst). The Qur’ân expresses the same theme in Sûrat al-Tîn: "We created man in the best pattern, and later reduced him to the lowest of the low."

Think of the possibilities for liberalization based on purely Islamic sources, not taking anything from the modern West. That would be truly Islamic feminism. The origin of Islam is far more liberal and feminist than what subsequent generations made of it. Women's rights were established by the Qur’ân and the Prophet (peace be upon him), who after all loved women; we need to filter out the spurious anti-woman hadiths that were added later. Although the term feminism has developed a somewhat poisonous connotation in today's discourse, it really just means the promotion of women's God-given rights and liberties, which is to the good of everyone.

We humans are essentially spiritual souls, and true liberation would begin from that identity. It's a shame that so often in the profane modern world, which only believes in quantity, all relationships are reduced to a zero-sum game of power. If feminism becomes nothing more than a power grab—men hold power over women, so now it's women's turn to seize the power and use it against men in turn—then no one advances any further toward higher enlightenment; the contest stays on the same horizontal level, the same problems recur in new guise with no resolution.

Men may fear or distrust "feminism" if they think it means nothing more than women gaining control over them. But genuine women's liberation would be liberating for all people, men and women alike. Not an issue of who wields power over whom, but transcending that whole issue of power, lifting our consciousness to a higher plane. A woman who is truly liberated would not be stuck in that old power struggle; she would not seek to control men any more than she would accept being controlled by men. Rather, both men and women would rejoice at being freed to relate to one another as loving, spiritual beings. This is real, and most of all the Sufis have actualized it. This is what the Prophet (peace be upon him) brought, if only that original liberating spirit could be released from under the dead weight of centuries of cultural repression like "purdah", which came not from Islam, but from the concubinage of the ancient Greeks and Romans, where women had no rights and were property owned by their fathers, husbands, and slave masters, so it is nothing but jâhilîyah pretending to be Islam, while Islam established the independent, equal status of women for the first time in civilization.

No More Denial.
I have noticed in forums over and over that if Muslims call attention to systemic injustice against women in Muslim countries, they are likely to get attacked and accused of supporting kufr against Islam. This reminds me of the divisive Vietnam War days when if anyone criticized the U.S. government for atrocities in Vietnam, the superpatriots would accuse them of supporting the Commies. It is sad that much of what passes for "Islam" these days is nothing more than mindless jingo flag-waving with no attention to the actual content of what Islam requires of us.

inna Allâha ya’muru bi-al-‘adli wa-al-ihsân
"Allah commands justice and the doing of good."


If some of us protest injustice that is being done in the name of Islam, that is because we love Islam and hate to see its good name being misused as a cover for oppression that is completely contrary to the spirit of Islam. Muslims have to clean up their own act, and insisting on denial of a problem is no service to the ummah. The injustice against women perpetrated by the system of power is very real. Willful blindness to the problem is no excuse for going along with it. If you really care about the essence of Islam, you need to establish justice. The injustice against women in Muslim countries is terrible, and there has been more than enough pious preaching about how Islam is great for women (in an ideal world), and not enough correcting of injustice on the ground. The evil comes from the system that keeps people locked in roles that stunt their growth, the system that unjustly penalizes women who would exercise their rights. As long as it isn't happening to someone you know, it's easy to stay complacent and acquiesce with the conventional system, overlooking its injustice. There has been more than enough (merely verbal) assertion that Islam is good for women. Indeed, true Islam would be good for women, if it were ever implemented properly! There has to be an end to the denial and more attention to the very real injustices that Muslim women are suffering right now. Why are girls left uneducated? What about access to medical treatment? Why are rape victims in Pakistan jailed or murdered while rapists go free? Why do those vicious thugs, the Taliban, think they can get away with beating and confining women? The situation is compounded by the pretense that "Islam" can somehow be the justification for harming women. That is nothing but a slander against the good name of Islam.

Why focus on the rights of Muslim women only?
This question sometimes comes up when discussing Muslim women's issues. The reason women's rights in Islam need special concern is because women in Muslim countries are made to suffer disproportionately by the system. What adds insult to injury is the way they try to justify their oppression of women by calling it "Islam." How could it be, when true Islam requires us to honor women? We have to make women's rights a top priority if the society as a whole is ever going to be healed. As Malcolm X said, the fate of a nation depends on how it treats it women. I am careful to emphasize that truly Islamic feminism wouldn't make the error of the modern world by treating human beings as quantities; we are spiritual beings above all. In Islam men and women equally submit to God and both are equally ennobled by the faith. Next, redressing injustice is a divine command: inna Allâha ya’muru bi-al-‘adli wa-al-ihsân.... (Allah commands justice and the doing of good.) When you look to the Qur’ân and the mercifulness of the Messenger, peace be upon him, you can see this beautiful vision of how life could be if selfishness weren't governing human dealings as it does. I am saying that Muslims should make sure to be good to women first of all, since they have been wronged the most. The systemic crimes against women have now increased drastically under those woman-beating Taliban hoodlums. The pain is even more acute right now.

This is in the spirit of the Prophet's answer to the Sahâbî asking who was most deserving of good treatment and honor: 1) Your mother; 2) your mother; 3) your mother; 4) your father.

* * *
A vignette from my Hajj diary.
Miná, 11 Dhî al-Hijjah 1416/April 29, 1996.
At the washing faucets at the end of the lavatory building, I have heard some men trying to drive away the women who were using the faucets for wudû’ and washing clothes. There are five faucets, and the men had been using the two or three on the right, the women the one or two on the left, according to their allotted sides of the lavatory building; the one in between was used by either, depending on the traffic of the moment. Some of the men decided that they would take over all five faucets, so they said things like "Hâjjah! Harâm!" Both times I saw this, I said out loud, "Lâ ba’s, lil-akhawât huqûquhunna." The sisters went and lined up alongside the building, waiting for their oppressors to go. When I would come back later, they would be using the left side faucets again. The unfair mentality of these brothers is not Islam. People use the word "harâm" much too freely. It should be limited to its technical meaning as defined in Islamic law.


* * *

The Prophet, peace be upon him, loved women. How horrified he would be to see the wretched way so many in his ummah have been mistreating them.



Maryams.Net - Muslim Women and Their Islam

- http://members.aol.com/yahyam/equality.html
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zarhad
09-07-2007, 07:27 AM
Its long but i enjoyed reading it alot I think many of the sisters will like it :)
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ahsan28
09-07-2007, 08:01 AM
A good article but what is the issue with ahadiths, which as per the writer have been added later allegedly? Examples have not been given in the article.

Punishments for married and unmarried are very clear for both genders. If a country fails to adopt, it is their fault.

Talibans were mostly youngsters, if they were strict in certain actions, I hope they must have realised, next time they would be careful.

Im more curious about the rights of the women, which according to the writer are being denied, perhaps should have been specifically mentioned. In my reckoning, women enjoy more liberty, freedom and privileges than men, who don't even find time to take proper rest and remain committed in earning livelihood for their families, morning till evening.

Could someone explain in tangible terms about the rights which are being denied to women?
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zarhad
09-07-2007, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by ahsan28
. In my reckoning, women enjoy more liberty, freedom and privileges than men, who don't even find time to take proper rest and remain committed in earning livelihood for their families, morning till evening.

Could someone explain in tangible terms about the rights which are being denied to women?
by this do you mean you feel in fact woman have more liberties then men because men work hard..

because i work 8-14 hours a day still take care of my house and family and sleep on average 4 or 5 hours a day.

i know men work hard my husband does a very labor intensive job, but even if i was sitting at home i wouldnt say i have more libiteries...

now in terms of lack of freedom the prophet(pbuh) had said if a woman asks to go to the mosque you have to allow her...yet many men dont allow woman in mosques...

some men take away the libirties of woman by chosing their role what the wear and what they will cook sometimes even when they will sleep ( im not saying in all cases) a good example is my country...afghanistan which most of the time does not allow woman to go to school and makes them where a burkha...this is wrong and un islamic.

woman are diffrent then men yes, we have to be modist, yes but there are double standerds for woman where in some countries they will kill a rape victum and free the rapist, its sick and wrong this is what i believe the writer ment.

also notice how she said by gaining libiteries we would not have to conform to western society
The writer also gives an example where at hajj the men felt threatened by the woman so tryed to make it seem haraam that they were using the water.
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guyabano
09-07-2007, 08:35 AM
When I read this, there are a few things which come to my mind:

1. Why can women not pray equally beside men in a mosque ? If men are too much distracted by women, it's more a sign of weakness
2. Why we cannot see women in political functions in Islamic countries ?
3. Why is it, that it's always the woman stay at home, and not the man raising the kids while woman work to earn money?
4. How comes, men can marry more women, but women only one man?
5. How comes, in Afghanistan (when Taleban ruled according to Sharia), women were not be allowed to go to school ?

The list goes on...

There is a big difference between what is written about women rights in the Quaran and what is really being applied by the humans in daily life.
For me, it looks more as if men took all advantages for themselfs and put the women's status on a lower level.
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zarhad
09-07-2007, 09:54 AM
good question.
well,
1.) interms of praying next to them, we aknowledge that men can infact be distracted by women, so before praying behind made it so they wernt distracted, because no one would be dis respectful enough to turn around during prayer, also to ensure that your wife or sister wasnt standing next to a man who was single or looking for a wife etc. (i would personally feel un comfortible praying next to a guy who i didnt know)

2.) actually there is women in islamic countries that hold political maybe not as many as men but in afghanistan there are a few iquivelents to mayors for example in jalalabad, and there is also a woman govener (i would have to look up the names) aswell as pakistan and other countries do have a few woman in political roles.

3.) woman dont always stay at home, even in islamic countries often if the husband is sick or doesnt make enough money the wife will work, keep in mind day care is not a big thing in all countries...as well many people choose to stay home...both me and my husband work hard but personally i would want to stay home to watch my children grow and take care of them, maybe work a part time because my mother-in-law and grand mother would be more then happy to help...but again its a personal choise not an islamic choise...woman can work

4.) a man can only marry more then one woman if hes able to love and care for them equally and keep them both happy...for example if marring another woman makes the wife unhappy i think it wouldnt be allowed because it would go agenst keeping them both happy...also if a woman is infertile or if a widow has no family marriage may take place to provide shelter or in the case of infertility if the man wanted to have a child to carry on the name.

i dont think anyone wants there husband to marry another woman but also keep in mind the type of relationships sometimes are diffrent, not everyone marries for love, sometimes to have a companion among the hundreds of reasons)

5.) the talaban are un-educated...woman like all muslims should seek knowledge...the talaban think they are smart and think they know alot about islam...however im sure that if you asked well educated scolars they will tell you the Quran is not only beautiful but complex and the more education the more knowledgable you are the easier it is to understand...that and i think the taliban we worried that if woman became educated they would realise how wrong they were and protest or fight back and refuse to conform to their ridicilous rules
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zarhad
09-07-2007, 09:56 AM
the only thing i agree with you is that men are often afraid to loose power to woman no offence but in general men have to much pride ego and stubornness (maybe not in all cases but most)
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ahsan28
09-07-2007, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
When I read this, there are a few things which come to my mind:

1. Why can women not pray equally beside men in a mosque ? If men are too much distracted by women, it's more a sign of weakness
2. Why we cannot see women in political functions in Islamic countries ?
3. Why is it, that it's always the woman stay at home, and not the man raising the kids while woman work to earn money?
4. How comes, men can marry more women, but women only one man?
5. How comes, in Afghanistan (when Taleban ruled according to Sharia), women were not be allowed to go to school ?

The list goes on...

There is a big difference between what is written about women rights in the Quaran and what is really being applied by the humans in daily life.
For me, it looks more as if men took all advantages for themselfs and put the women's status on a lower level.

1. The mosques having enough space and partitioning do entertain women. No one stops them. However women especially in south asia themselves prefer to perform their religious obligations at home and don't like to mix freely with males. In addition we have exclusive centres for the women, where they are taught about their peculiar issues and obligations as women in the light of Islamic instructions by the educated female faculty. So the allegation about restricting women at homes doesn't stand on merit.

2. We have limited representation of women in political functioning, but Islam instructs them to concentrate on their basic obligations, rather wasting their precious time on non-essentials, which are already being looked after by the men. But you will see a large number of Muslim women serving on various govt and private jobs apart from the lady doctors and nurses, you will find in almost every hospital.

3. Here you are talking against the nature, what Islam has to do with it. Islamic traditions n customs are already in line with nature. Men are generally robust and expected to undertake harder jobs outside, whereas women being delicate and relatively less robust are expected to perform work at home, which obviously includes raising of the kids as well.

4. If a woman marries two men at a time, how will you determine who happens to be the actual father of the kids???

5. Their actions were stringent, no doubt, but hopefully they must have realised. Learning is a continued process. One learns through mistakes.
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syilla
09-07-2007, 10:49 AM
I thought this has been discussed for so many times :uuh:

Maybe reading this guyabano you will look at a difference perspective. Thats all from me InshaAllah.

Posted by bro al-ansar

A Woman's Reflection on Leading Prayer was written by Sister Yasmin Mogahed 25/03/05:
"Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I'm not--and in all honesty--don't want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness."

On March 18, 2005 Amina Wadud led the first female-led Jumuah (Friday) prayer. On that day women took a huge step towards being more like men. But, did we come closer to actualizing our God-given liberation? I don't think so.

What we so often forget is that God has honored the woman by giving her value in relation to God-not in relation to men. But as western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left-but men. As a result the western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man-the standard.

When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the " standard " had it.
What she didn't recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness--not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake.

For 1400 years there has been a consensus of the scholars that men are to lead prayer. As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading prayer is not better, just because it's leading. Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn't the Prophet have asked Ayesha or Khadija, or Fatima-the greatest women of all time-to lead? These women were promised heaven-and yet they never lead prayer.

But now for the first time in 1400 years, we look at a man leading prayer and we think, " That's not fair." We think so although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind.

On the other hand, only a woman can be a mother. And God has given special privilege to a mother. The Prophet taught us that heaven lies at the feet of mothers. But no matter what a man does he can never be a mother. So why is that not unfair?

When asked who is most deserving of our kind treatment? The Prophet replied 'your mother' three times before saying 'your father' only once. Isn't that sexist? No matter what a man does he will never be able to have the status of a mother.

And yet even when God honors us with something uniquely feminine, we are too busy trying to find our worth in reference to men, to value it-or even notice. We too have accepted men as the standard; so anything uniquely feminine is, by definition, inferior. Being sensitive is an insult, becoming a mother-a degradation. In the battle between stoic rationality (considered masculine) and self-less compassion (considered feminine), rationality reigns supreme.


As soon as we accept that everything a man has and does is better, all that follows is just a knee jerk reaction: if men have it-we want it too. If men pray in the front rows, we assume this is better, so we want to pray in the front rows too. If men lead prayer, we assume the imam is closer to God, so we want to lead prayer too. Somewhere along the line we've accepted the notion that having a position of worldly leadership is some indication of one's position with God.

A Muslim woman does not need to degrade herself in this way. She has God as a standard. She has God to give her value; she doesn't need a man.

In fact, in our crusade to follow men, we, as women, never even stopped to examine the possibility that what we have is better for us. In some cases we even gave up what was higher only to be like men.
Fifty years ago, society told us that men were superior because they left the home to work in factories. We were mothers. And yet, we were told that it was women's liberation to abandon the raising of another human being in order to work on a machine. We accepted that working in a factory was superior to raising the foundation of society-just because a man did it. Then after working, we were expected to be superhuman-the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect homemaker-and have the perfect career. And while there is nothing wrong, by definition, with a woman having a career, we soon came to realize what we had sacrificed by blindly mimicking men. We watched as our children became strangers and soon recognized the privilege we'd given up.

And so only now-given the choice-women in the West are choosing to stay home to raise their children. According to the United States Department of Agriculture, only 31 percent of mothers with babies, and 18 percent of mothers with two or more children, are working full-time. And of those working mothers, a survey conducted by Parenting Magazine in 2000, found that 93% of them say they would rather be home with their kids, but are compelled to work due to 'financial obligations'. These 'obligations' are imposed on women by the gender sameness of the modern West, and removed from women by the gender distinctiveness of Islam.

It took women in the West almost a century of experimentation to realize a privilege given to Muslim women 1400 years ago.

Given my privilege as a woman, I only degrade myself by trying to be something I'm not--and in all honesty--don't want to be: a man. As women, we will never reach true liberation until we stop trying to mimic men, and value the beauty in our own God-given distinctiveness.

If given a choice between stoic justice and compassion, I choose compassion. And if given a choice between worldly leadership and heaven at my feet-I choose heaven.
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Malaikah
09-07-2007, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by guyabano
1. Why can women not pray equally beside men in a mosque ? If men are too much distracted by women, it's more a sign of weakness
What is so equal about that? I don't need to be going and sticking myself in between to men to be 'equal'.

3. Why is it, that it's always the woman stay at home, and not the man raising the kids while woman work to earn money?
Maybe because the women are the ones who get pregnant? And produce breast milk for the baby?

5. How comes, in Afghanistan (when Taleban ruled according to Sharia), women were not be allowed to go to school ?
I heard it had something to do with them not being able to afford to keep all schools open because of sanctions places on them, but I don't know how true that is.

For me, it looks more as if men took all advantages for themselfs and put the women's status on a lower level.
And isn't that what happens world over? :?

Originally Posted by zarhad
5.) the talaban are un-educated...woman like all muslims should seek knowledge...the talaban think they are smart and think they know alot about islam...however im sure that if you asked well educated scolars they will tell you the Quran is not only beautiful but complex and the more education the more knowledgable you are the easier it is to understand...that and i think the taliban we worried that if woman became educated they would realise how wrong they were and protest or fight back and refuse to conform to their ridicilous rules
That is an amazing allegation. Do you have any proof that this is the reason they closed them down?
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guyabano
09-07-2007, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
What is so equal about that? I don't need to be going and sticking myself in between to men to be 'equal'.
In that case, it is your personal choice


Originally Posted by Malaikah
Maybe because the women are the ones who get pregnant? And produce breast milk for the baby?
No valid argument. A mothers milk is often not nutritive enough. And plus, that would only be for a period of few months. And for the rest of your life, what is then your argument?

Originally Posted by Malaikah
And isn't that what happens world over? :?
No !
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wilberhum
09-07-2007, 05:25 PM
Rights are prescribed by law not religion.

Since there are no Islamic countries in the world I see the "Islamic View" of equality pointless.

IMHO
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InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 08:29 PM
Mash'Allah, Islam truely elevated the Status of Woman :)
Not only do the Qur'an and Sunnah Compel the Muslim to enforce their rights, Islamic history is also a testamant to them being enforced.
We all know the huge contribution Aisha(RA) made to to the preservation of Sunnah after suffering the greatest loss of the Ummah.

I was reading the biography of Imam Tahawi(239 AH/853 CE) and found that his Mother used to study in Imam Shafis circles alongside her brother Imam Al-Muzani who was a direct student of Imam Shafi and the most influencial proponent of the Shafi school of Egypt. She became a notable and erudite jurist of some distinction in the Shafi school. Imam Al-Suyyuti(955/1505) wrote about her "she used to attend the circle of Imam Al-Shafi and is quoted by Imam Al-Rafi'i in the section of Zakat. She is also mentioned by Imam Al-Subki in history and biographical collection of Shafi scholars. It's no why wonder Imam Tahawi was so knowledgable, Alhamdulillah. May Allah(SWT) have mercy on them.

To my knowledge , however insignificant it may be, I do not see the history of any other Civilisation give such respect to Woman that they are reffered for knowledge dating back to the 6th century. Islamic History outshines the history of any other civilization, even to this day we are in the spotlight ;D, Mash'Allah.
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wilberhum
09-07-2007, 08:34 PM
Z.AL-Rashid
even to this day we are in the spotlight
That would be a true statement.
But I don't see it as a ;D matter.

Since Islam is not a country,
Where do we see this "truely elevated the Status of Woman"?
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InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Where do we see this "truely elevated the Status of Woman"?
You see it in the Qur'an and Sunnah :)
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wilberhum
09-07-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
You see it in the Qur'an and Sunnah :)
That's really nice. I looked at a map and I could not see Qur'an or Sunnah.
So where are they?

Countries define what the laws are.

It is of little value if Moby Dick "truely elevated the Status of Whales".
As long as countries continue to allow the killing of whales, Moby Dick has little importance.
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InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
That's really nice. I looked at a map
It's a good thing you didn't become a Lawer ;D, they refer to "Books" to refer to the laws regarding that issue...not maps ...:skeleton:
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wilberhum
09-07-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
It's a good thing you didn't become a Lawer ;D, they refer to "Books" to refer to the laws regarding that issue...not maps ...:skeleton:
Some people don't understand the concept of satire. :rollseyes

Who uses those books?

If no one, then the legal value is no more than Moby Dick. :?
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InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum

Who uses those books?
The Qur'an and books that refer to the Sunnah are used by every Muslim.

Originally Posted by wilberhum

If no one, then the legal value is no more than Moby Dick. :?
Wrong. It used for all aspects of life, ranging from birth to death.

Sharia governs all aspects of life, from relations between men and women to ethics in business and banking. Some aspects of sharia have become part of modern legal codes and are enforced by national judicial systems, while others are a matter of personal conscience. Entirely secular law is not an option under a classical interpretation of Islam, experts say. "In Islam, there is no separation between the secular and the sacred. The law is suffused with religion," says David Powers, a professor of Islamic law and history at Cornell University.

Read this for more Info:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/#1

As for more info on how Islam elevated the Status of Woman read here:

http://www.islamicinstitute.org/publ...atus-women.htm
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wilberhum
09-07-2007, 10:30 PM
Wrong. It used for all aspects of life, ranging from birth to death.
Wrong? There are no country that uses "Your Laws", so it is no different than "No Law".
It is a simple fact. I can sit here and make up laws all day long. I can even put them into a book.
If the government does not use my book, my laws are meaningless.
So until you show me where your book is the law, it's legal standing is zero.

"In Islam, there is no separation between the secular and the sacred. The law is suffused with religion
Still you don't see. Islam is not a country.
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InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Wrong? There are no country that uses "Your Laws", so it is no different than "No Law".
O really Billy boy?

[PIE]How is Islamic personal law implemented today?
Islamic principles still form the foundations of the legal code governing marriage, divorce, and inheritance in most Islamic nations. On the other hand, many nations have changed classical sharia restrictions, often to expand the rights of women. Such changes have become a major human rights and women's rights issue in the Muslim world, pitting reformists--who want to modernize the law and bring it into line with international norms--against Islamists, "who want the restoration of Islamic law lock, stock, and barrel," Powers says.

What are the traditional sharia laws governing personal status issues?
Marriage: Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Brown says. Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.

Divorce: Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classicalsharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.

Polygamy:
The Quran gives men the right to have up to four wives. There are some traditional limitations: a man must treat all co-wives equitably, provide them with separate dwellings, and acknowledge in a marriage contract his other spouses, if any. A woman cannot forbid the practice, but can insist on a divorce if her husband takes a second wife. Polygamy remains on the books in most Islamic countries, but some countries limit it through legislation. It is banned in Tunisia and Turkey, though reportedly it is still practiced in some areas of Turkey.
Custody: In a divorce, the children traditionally belong to the father, but the mother has the right to care for them while they are young, Powers says. The age at which a mother loses custody differs from nation to nation. In Iran, the mother's custody ends at seven for boys and girls; in Pakistan, it's seven for boys and puberty for girls. Many nations, however, allow courts to extend the mother's custody if it is deemed in the child's interest.

Inheritance: Mothers, wives, and daughters are guaranteed an inheritance in the case of a man's death. In the seventh century A.D., when the law was developed, this was a major step forward for women, Powers says. However, sharia also dictates that men inherit twice the share of women because, traditionally, men were responsible for women, Powers says.
Are non-Muslims bound by personal status sharia courts?

Generally speaking, no. Minorities in Muslim nations are generally governed under separate personal-status laws reflecting their own traditions, experts say. In Egypt, for example, Coptic Christians marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin, Brown says. Criminal law, which is generally no longer based on sharia, applies to both foreigners and citizens.

[/PIE]


Unfortunately it is not fully implemented by any Islamic nation, but the Shairah laws are still being applied.
Reply

جوري
09-07-2007, 10:45 PM
^^^what does this bunk have to do with women's rights in Islam?.. I swore off this section for the month of Ramadan.. I can't help but be amused in the occasion I see one of these threads on main.

If the law isn't enforced by the state, it will be enforced by the next best thing which is the family, if not the family then the individual, if not in the individual where can be visibly seen and acted, then in the heart which is the weakest form ( ad3af al-iman)
Islamic laws are very much implemented by units that choose to follow guidance until such a time when an Islamic state enforces the rights of the individual..
You want to know how opressed Muslim women are whether under the empire or in a family unit? ... I suggest you ask them!..
There was a time when a whole army would rise for the honor of just one woman mal-treated.. now they get raped by the handful while secular law applauds.. Govt. and political units only look for ways to decriminalize savagery.

Isn't it about time we took out the refuse on these threads? Or are the Muslims conjointly torpid?

:w:
Reply

جوري
09-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
O really Billy boy?

[PIE]How is Islamic personal law implemented today?
Islamic principles still form the foundations of the legal code governing marriage, divorce, and inheritance in most Islamic nations. On the other hand, many nations have changed classical sharia restrictions, often to expand the rights of women. Such changes have become a major human rights and women's rights issue in the Muslim world, pitting reformists--who want to modernize the law and bring it into line with international norms--against Islamists, "who want the restoration of Islamic law lock, stock, and barrel," Powers says.

What are the traditional sharia laws governing personal status issues?
Marriage: Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Brown says. Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.
Divorce: Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classicalsharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.
Polygamy: The Quran gives men the right to have up to four wives. There are some traditional limitations: a man must treat all co-wives equitably, provide them with separate dwellings, and acknowledge in a marriage contract his other spouses, if any. A woman cannot forbid the practice, but can insist on a divorce if her husband takes a second wife. Polygamy remains on the books in most Islamic countries, but some countries limit it through legislation. It is banned in Tunisia and Turkey, though reportedly it is still practiced in some areas of Turkey.
Custody: In a divorce, the children traditionally belong to the father, but the mother has the right to care for them while they are young, Powers says. The age at which a mother loses custody differs from nation to nation. In Iran, the mother's custody ends at seven for boys and girls; in Pakistan, it's seven for boys and puberty for girls. Many nations, however, allow courts to extend the mother's custody if it is deemed in the child's interest.
Inheritance: Mothers, wives, and daughters are guaranteed an inheritance in the case of a man's death. In the seventh century A.D., when the law was developed, this was a major step forward for women, Powers says. However, sharia also dictates that men inherit twice the share of women because, traditionally, men were responsible for women, Powers says.
Are non-Muslims bound by personal status sharia courts?
Generally speaking, no. Minorities in Muslim nations are generally governed under separate personal-status laws reflecting their own traditions, experts say. In Egypt, for example, Coptic Christians marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin, Brown says. Criminal law, which is generally no longer based on sharia, applies to both foreigners and citizens.

[/PIE]


Unfortunately it is not fully implemented by any Islamic nation, but the Shairah laws are still being applied.
Great post.. thanks
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
09-07-2007, 10:48 PM
Z.AL-Rashid
I quit when I saw:
most Islamic nations
I have been informed many times that there are no Islamic Nations'
Reply

جوري
09-07-2007, 10:50 PM
^^ you should quit period and give us all a break from this quality of wearisome monotony..
Reply

wilberhum
09-07-2007, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
^^ you should quit period and give us all a break from this quality of wearisome monotony..
I think that is good advise, you should follow it.

Or is it your usual intention to get the thread closed?
Reply

InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Z.AL-Rashid
I quit when I saw:

I have been informed many times that there are no Islamic Nations'
It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah, whith a Khalif (Leader of the Muslim nations), hence people say there is no Islamic nation. In other words we have no Khilafah.
Reply

جوري
09-07-2007, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think that is good advise, you should follow it.

Or is it your usual intention to get the thread closed?
Every thread you and your ilk partake in, is as good as tripe and should in fact be binned...
It will be a cold day in hell with its devils ice skating when you part something of substance!
Reply

wilberhum
09-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah hence people say there is no Islamic nation.
So then to talk about Shariah Law is invalid.

We are back to the laws of the country.

Those laws may or may not be the same as Shariah.

Cut it anyway you want it, the law of the government is what is inforced by the government.
Reply

wilberhum
09-07-2007, 11:03 PM
Here we go agin.
You insult me.
I post to the topic.
I respond to you insult.
You insult me.
I post to the topic.
Etc Etc Etc
You didn't do very well on the "How about" thread, so now you are back to your old tricks.
Reply

InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So then to talk about Shariah Law is invalid.

We are back to the laws of the country.

Those laws may or may not be the same as Shariah.

Cut it anyway you want it, the law of the government is what is inforced by the government.
The Laws are still valid as they are implemented as I have mentioned before. Re-Read post #24, it explains the Laws implemented from Shariah regarding those Issues and those laws are enforced by the goverment in those nations. It is the law of the Islamic nations regarding those Issues. Not everything is black and white wilbie boy :skeleton:

Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
^^^what does this bunk have to do with women's rights in Islam?.. I swore off this section for the month of Ramadan.. I can't help but be amused in the occasion I see one of these threads on main.

If the law isn't enforced by the state, it will be enforced by the next best thing which is the family, if not the family then the individual, if not in the individual where can be visibly seen and acted, then in the heart which is the weakest form ( ad3af al-iman)
Islamic laws are very much implemented by units that choose to follow guidance until such a time when an Islamic state enforces the rights of the individual..
You want to know how opressed Muslim women are whether under the empire or in a family unit? ... I suggest you ask them!..
There was a time when a whole army would rise for the honor of just one woman mal-treated.. now they get raped by the handful while secular law applauds.. Govt. and political units only look for ways to decriminalize savagery.

Isn't it about time we took out the refuse on these threads? Or are the Muslims conjointly torpid?

:w:
Couldn't agree more :thumbs_up :w:
Reply

wilberhum
09-07-2007, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
The Laws are still valid as they are implemented as I have mentioned before. Re-Read post #24, it explains the Laws implemented from Shariah regarding those Issues and those laws are enforced by the goverment in those nations. It is the law of the Islamic nations regarding those Issues. Not everything is black and white wilbie boy :skeleton:
The laws are valid because they were implemented by the government.
So you have the laws of the government.
If a Sharian law is not implemented, it is not a law of the land. That simple.
If they get there laws from Moby Dick, they will also be a law of the land.
Reply

InToTheRain
09-07-2007, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
The laws are valid because they were implemented[ by the government.
So you have the laws of the government.
If a Sharian law is not implemented, it is not a law of the land. That simple.
If they get there laws from Moby Dick, they will also be a law of the land.
LOL wilber your making me laugh man. Have you actually read my posts thus far? Answer honestly I, I won't bite ;D
I say this because I have clearly stated that the Laws of Sharia are Implemented, but not fully! I gave examples of which laws from Sharia are implemented. But the Laws of Shariah are not Implemented to other issues such as commerce and foreign policy for example. So it is not BLACK and WHITE. SHariah is still being used but not fully is all.

Quote from deleted post removed

LOL that made me laugh as the thought occured that Wilber might use it instead of his usual :skeleton: ;D
Reply

InToTheRain
09-08-2007, 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah, whith a Khalif (Leader of the Muslim nations), hence people say there is no Islamic nation. In other words we have no Khilafah.
Edit on post ^:
Reply

wilberhum
09-08-2007, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
LOL wilber your making me laugh man. Have you actually read my posts thus far? Answer honestly I, I won't bite ;D
I say this because I have clearly stated that the Laws of Sharia are Implemented, but not fully! I gave examples of which laws from Sharia are implemented. But the Laws of Shariah are not Implemented to other issues such as commerce and foreign policy for example. So it is not BLACK and WHITE. SHariah is still being used but not fully is all.

Quote from deleted post removed

LOL that made me laugh as the thought occured that Wilber might use it instead of his usual :skeleton: ;D
But I love my skeleton. It says a lot.

You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value. :p

I found out a long time ago that there is no end to what people will believe. :-\
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
09-08-2007, 01:07 PM
only those who understand the mentality/body/sentiments/physical ability etc etc of both genders can truelly prescribe a method in which both are EQUALLY UPLIFTED but in DIFFERENT WAYS !


ive noticed many non-muslims find it extremely difficult to grasp that although men and women do not sit in the same room, doing the same job, drinking from the SAME CUP OF BLASTED TEA they do indeed have their own seperate rights which ascertains their equalitY!


oh and Wilberhum: lol, your funny, if you analyse the posts you'll see that his saying the laws are implemented by the individuals and given enough sanctity by the muslim community to be seen as a truelly binding code of life. This same code of life results in a better life for women. If it was implemented by the country then the non-muslim women will act oppressed due to the sheer amount of brainwashing they have gone through by stupid perverted old nasty men and the media.
Reply

wilberhum
09-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
only those who understand the mentality/body/sentiments/physical ability etc etc of both genders can truelly prescribe a method in which both are EQUALLY UPLIFTED but in DIFFERENT WAYS !


ive noticed many non-muslims find it extremely difficult to grasp that although men and women do not sit in the same room, doing the same job, drinking from the SAME CUP OF BLASTED TEA they do indeed have their own seperate rights which ascertains their equalitY!


oh and Wilberhum: lol, your funny, if you analyse the posts you'll see that his saying the laws are implemented by the individuals and given enough sanctity by the muslim community to be seen as a truelly binding code of life. This same code of life results in a better life for women. If it was implemented by the country then the non-muslim women will act oppressed due to the sheer amount of brainwashing they have gone through by stupid perverted old nasty men and the media.
You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.
Reply

ahsan28
09-08-2007, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I found out a long time ago that there is no end to what people will believe. :-\
Some even believe in UFO :D
Reply

InToTheRain
09-08-2007, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.
LOL, another baseless statement clearly reflecting your ignorance on the matter. What is it you find incapable of understanding in my previous posts? The FACT that Shariah Law is still implemented TODAY in Muslim Countries is not DISPUTED!
Reply

Caller الداعي
09-08-2007, 01:33 PM
:sl:
i think the word equality is something which can be used in many ways i mean we can say why dont be see women builder bums instead of men....i mean if there is to be equality in that way... and women walking around in swimming trunks....
i think equality is different for both males and females keepin in mind there weaknesses and strenghts generally..
Reply

Caller الداعي
09-08-2007, 01:37 PM
p.s. we muslims should be more aware of the tactics of the kufar...trying to break our unity and creating mischief and doubts in the believers heart.....
Allah says: Ask the knowledged if u dont know!
( and by knowledge i mean muslim scholars not shaykh 'internet' )
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
09-08-2007, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.
there are laws of physics, laws of nature, laws of governments, and then there are laws of religion.


You may now continue to chat breeze :) :skeleton:
Reply

wilberhum
09-09-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
there are laws of physics, laws of nature, laws of governments, and then there are laws of religion.


You may now continue to chat breeze :) :skeleton:
:uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh:
Reply

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