Evolution, Satan's Tool?

[Isambard]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PXyUP3yXhno

Who here agrees with this guy?

[Md Mashud]

Macroevolution could be seen as satans tool in that - it moves one away from God, or atleast, as the scientists claim, no God was required - hence removing credit from God of creation.


Btw, I didn't watch the video - since its by VenomFagX, who makes ridiculous comments about everything, including Islam.

[Isambard]

Macroevolution could be seen as satans tool in that - it moves one away from God, or atleast, as the scientists claim, no God was required - hence removing credit from God of creation.


Btw, I didn't watch the video - since its by VenomFagX, who makes ridiculous comments about everything, including Islam.

lol Md you surprise me. I didnt see you as a Youtube Junkie :P

Anyways, for the sake of simplicity, do you agree with the statements about evolution in this video?:hiding:

[Md Mashud]

Tell me what he said breifly - Seriously I can't stand that guy and I won't watch him :(.

He is known for calling EVERONE apart from hiself a satanist though - so meh, he shouldn't be taken seriously.

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[Isambard]

Tell me what he said breifly - Seriously I can't stand that guy and I won't watch him :(.

He is known for calling EVERONE apart from hiself a satanist though - so meh, he shouldn't be taken seriously.

Cmon, its only 8mins :P

If you still feel annoyed, look at the comments to cheer you up! :D

[tarek29]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PXyUP3yXhno

Who here agrees with this guy?

Salam Alekom,

I didnt watch this Video because it is meaningless simply because there is huge number of Theories with and against evolution of Humans and if you ask any scientist he will tell you:

A B C science that there is no 100 % theory correct EVEN those who already proved!

For MUSLIMS there is Human evolution on the behavior and thinking and Faith and things that they use only!

The evolution theory is EVIL for those who are disappointed in their faith because they found un logic answers in what they were taught when they grow,

and they grow they found a lot of Mistakes because of human corruption in what they were taught, that’s why most atheists come from religion like Christianity where they cannot even explain Trinity for example, so with those disappointments they either go to other faiths to seek answers or they prefer to become atheists!

but this is not the case in ISLAM thanks Allah (saw) !

May Allah (saw) guide us all!

PEACE

[Isambard]

Salam Alekom,

I didnt watch this Video because it is meaningless simply because there is huge number of Theories with and against evolution of Humans and if you ask any scientist he will tell you:

If by theory, you mean opinion and scientist you mean rambling evangelist with no idea about the first thing about science, then sure

A B C science that there is no 100 % theory correct EVEN those who already proved!

yes, that is why science is called tentative. Then again, so is everything really. It isnt 100% chance that the sun will rise tomorrow either

For MUSLIMS there is Human evolution on the behavior and thinking and Faith and things that they use only!

Some disagree, but Id say what you say is true. Seeing how Islam conflicts with science, I decided agaisnt being a muslim

The evolution theory is EVIL for those who are disappointed in their faith because they found un logic answers in what they were taught when they grow,

and they grow they found a lot of Mistakes because of human corruption in what they were taught, that’s why most atheists come from religion like Christianity where they cannot even explain Trinity for example, so with those disappointments they either go to other faiths to seek answers or they prefer to become atheists!

I think youll find apostacy in all religions. Ppl are just alot more quiet in Islam cause they like their heads attatched to their necks and/or dont feel like being ostrasized

but this is not the case in ISLAM thanks Allah (saw) !

Yep, no one has ever left Islam...ever...

May Allah (saw) guide us all!

PEACE

Atm I am reading some stuff on political theory. It is incredibly boring and Im stuck in endless debates with idealists.

Seeing as how I need something to distract myself, Ill do my best to address any "inconsistancies/errors/lies" you find with natural selection.

Just remmeber I am no scientist.

Cheers

[Woodrow]

I can not agree with the guy in the video. He is using "pop" science concepts and not even describing evolution. He is simply talking about what many people think evolution is.

I won't go into a discussion of evolution as the question was "do I agree with that guy." The answer is no.

Do I think Evolution is Shaytan's Tool? I believe ignorance with no desire to correct ignorance is a tool of Shaytan, so I think what he is saying is Shaytan's tool.

[thirdwatch512]

i think that most muslims would agree with the christian creationists more then evolution.

i have heard more muslims speak out against evolution then any other religion. yusuf estes, zakir naik, billal phillips, and many muslims i have spoken to online all speak out against evolution.

i do not know if muslims think it is by satan. but, they obviously do not believe in it!

[Isambard]

I can not agree with the guy in the video. He is using "pop" science concepts and not even describing evolution. He is simply talking about what many people think evolution is.

I won't go into a discussion of evolution as the question was "do I agree with that guy." The answer is no.

Do I think Evolution is Shaytan's Tool? I believe ignorance with no desire to correct ignorance is a tool of Shaytan, so I think what he is saying is Shaytan's tool.

Yaa...

The guy in the video is an idiot. I asked if anyone agrees with him because I heard variations of the his arguements on the boards before and as stupid as he sounds, its basically the arguements creationists make.

There is also like 20 reply vids for everyone of his videos. I was expecting a number of folks to agree with him and just post a reply video so to save myself some time refuting :D

Ah well:coolious:

[thirdwatch512]

oh, and btw you guys.. trust me, venomfangx is seen as a nut among most christians too.

he is such a hyppocrite. i can not stand the man.

[Md Mashud]

I have one issue with your comments. You said you do not follow Islam on basis on contradiction of science. If Quran contradicted science - no one would believe in Islam, not me, not anyone. There are muslims, over the time, and present, much more smarter than you and I - on the matter of science. If they found a contradiction - they WOULD not follow it period.

I don't know if it was you or ranma1/2 who mentioned what exactly did Islam deny scientifically - but I did make a lengthy post on it.

Quran can contradict theories which are not scientific fact or hold no evidence and be completly credible. I would prefer you to list me, exactly what (specifically) the Quran denied scientifically.

I am 100% sure you either made evidence of somthing without none, made fact of somthing which isn't, or the more likely case - Accused Quran to say stuff it hasn't, or misinterpreted it.

[Isambard]

I have one issue with your comments. You said you do not follow Islam on basis on contradiction of science. If Quran contradicted science - no one would believe in Islam, not me, not anyone. There are muslims, over the time, and present, much more smarter than you and I - on the matter of science. If they found a contradiction - they WOULD not follow it period.

The same could be said of any religion, even the dead ones. From what I have observed and personal experience, I think the allowance of illogical thought is allowed because of a "carrot".

I remember a time I was very close to converting to Islam, despite my yrs as an atheist, I was very close to saying the Shahada and believing it. I twas only when my carrot was removed that I was able to think about it more analytically and realize what i was doing/believing didnt make sense. I wanted so badly to believe it so i would be able to be with someone. I tried continuing my religious studies after we were no longer together, but because of the loss of my carrot, I couldnt get a revival of faith.

I dont want this to sound like a strickly religious affiar either. Just because you are atheist doesnt mean you are immune. I often question other atheist claims that non-religious folks are better off. I think the carrot of this belief is to feel morally superior for those times they wished they could easily turn to a diety for assisstance.

I don't know if it was you or ranma1/2 who mentioned what exactly did Islam deny scientifically - but I did make a lengthy post on it.

Quran can contradict theories which are not scientific fact or hold no evidence and be completly credible. I would prefer you to list me, exactly what (specifically) the Quran denied scientifically.

Well there is the part about falling stas used to chase off evil spirits. That aside, some of the "historical claims" go agaisnt what has been found (See Q)

I am 100% sure you either made evidence of somthing without none, made fact of somthing which isn't, or the more likely case - Accused Quran to say stuff it hasn't, or misinterpreted it.

It would appear hard to misinterpret it. Im convinced regardless of what science finds, devoted theists will always find ways to "find the proper interpretatio" of their text and vaa-laa! It magically agrees with science. I mean check out the thread about Earth expanding, had someone comment about it might being in the Qur'an/Hadiths.

Would make for an interesting experiment though, to post misinformation and watch to see if stuff is "discovered" to agree with it:D

[Md Mashud]

It would appear hard to misinterpret it. Im convinced regardless of what science finds, devoted theists will always find ways to "find the proper interpretatio" of their text and vaa-laa! It magically agrees with science. I mean check out the thread about Earth expanding, had someone comment about it might being in the Qur'an/Hadiths.

There is the flaw :). You see, not anyone can read and interpret Quran. To this day, no one, since the 4 imaams, have been given status of absolute Mujtahids. Their tafsir of the Quran, is unchanged, since the beginning of Islam.

What does this mean? Interpretaion of the Quran, in its authenic form, is the same today as it was 1400'ish years ago. It is a misconception that, people, have moulded the meaning of Quran to agree with science.

Lets take, the day arguement, as 1 of many examples. People today, REALLY believe, that, muslims have made 1 day not equal 24 hours ONLY to confirm science. FAR from the truth. 1400 years ago, 1 day was never EVER taught to mean 24 hours.

You see, the tafsir of the Quran has been preserved - Some meanings may not have been clear as to what it has been portraying to until today - But this does not mean it has been moulded into something it wasn't before

Well there is the part about falling stas used to chase off evil spirits.

Don't read the Quran and just take it to word - You are not qualified. You must find tafsir of it.

[Isambard]

Then provide it

[ranma1/2]

Macroevolution could be seen as satans tool in that - it moves one away from God, or atleast, as the scientists claim, no God was required - hence removing credit from God of creation.


Btw, I didn't watch the video - since its by VenomFagX, who makes ridiculous comments about everything, including Islam.

Ditto, i mean look at gravity, no god required for that either. ITs amazing how gravity is a tool of satan, moving others away from god.
Oh yeah electricty too , tool of satan. The sun. Tool of satan...

I do actually agree about your comment on VFX.

[ranma1/2]

Yaa...

The guy in the video is an idiot. I asked if anyone agrees with him because I heard variations of the his arguements on the boards before and as stupid as he sounds, its basically the arguements creationists make.

There is also like 20 reply vids for everyone of his videos. I was expecting a number of folks to agree with him and just post a reply video so to save myself some time refuting :D

Ah well:coolious:

Yes vfX gets all of his arguments from Kent Hovind.
A very dishonest creationists that is doing honest time in prison for tax evasion.

[Md Mashud]

Then provide it

Hmm kind of strange you did not search for it and assumed somthing that was not true - to make basis of Islam to be false. Don't you think thats wrong? Making false assumptions to make a verdict on somthing? Assuming you was close to saying shahadah, surely you knew what Tafsir was?

[Md Mashud]

Ditto, i mean look at gravity, no god required for that either. ITs amazing how gravity is a tool of satan, moving others away from god.
Oh yeah electricty too , tool of satan. The sun. Tool of satan...

I do actually agree about your comment on VFX.

You missed the part where I said

at least, as scientists claim

:skeleton:

Since when did scientists use gravity as means of a God-independant Universe? :P

[Isambard]

Hmm kind of strange you did not search for it and assumed somthing that was not true - to make basis of Islam to be false. Don't you think thats wrong? Making false assumptions to make a verdict on somthing? Assuming you was close to saying shahadah, surely you knew what Tafsir was?

Seems pretty clear to me, but if you feel like my understanding is flawed then provide the "proper" explination

[Isambard]

You missed the part where I said

at least, as scientists claim

:skeleton:

Since when did scientists use gravity as means of a God-independant Universe? :P

One could say gravity means God's love isnt holding as from floating off the earth lol

[Md Mashud]

Seems pretty clear to me, but if you feel like my understanding is flawed then provide the "proper" explination

That is relative isn't it? Seems pretty clear?

This is a longterm problem, as you know, of people interepreting Hadiths, maybe even division of muslims on the issue. Like hadiths, Quran must be taken with care. If something doesn't seem right, its probably because it isn't - and its better to get the opinion of a scholar on the matter - you most likely got the wrong meaning - even so because its a translation. Unlike hadith, Quran 1 ruling for the whole Quran.

If you arn't mutjahid/with itjihaad - you really don't have the right to it. Its a different matter if you asked scholars and seen the tafsir on matter and had a disagreement. But if you just present text, translated, say its wrong - and expect this to be respected grounds to falsify Islam...

If you want the right - ask a scholar or look up tafsir of it. I can guarantee you won't be dissapointed with answer. Im not a scholar - but since im tired now I can probably try look for some tafsir on it later :P

[Md Mashud]

One could say gravity means God's love isnt holding as from floating off the earth lol

Huh?

[Isambard]

Huh?

meh, some medival christian theology.

[Isambard]

That is relative isn't it? Seems pretty clear?

This is a longterm problem, as you know, of people interepreting Hadiths, maybe even division of muslims on the issue. Like hadiths, Quran must be taken with care. If something doesn't seem right, its probably because it isn't - and its better to get the opinion of a scholar on the matter - you most likely got the wrong meaning - even so because its a translation. Unlike hadith, Quran 1 ruling for the whole Quran.

If you arn't mutjahid/with itjihaad - you really don't have the right to it. Its a different matter if you asked scholars and seen the tafsir on matter and had a disagreement. But if you just present text, translated, say its wrong - and expect this to be respected grounds to falsify Islam...

If you want the right - ask a scholar or look up tafsir of it. I can guarantee you won't be dissapointed with answer. Im not a scholar - but since im tired now I can probably try look for some tafsir on it later :P

I posted this in another thread but never really got an answer.

[67.5] YUSUF ALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.


[15.16] YUSUF ALI: It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders;
[15.17] And (moreover) We have guarded them from every cursed devil:
[15.18] But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see).


[37.6] YUSUF ALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
[37.7] (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
[37.8] (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
[37.9] Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
[37.10] Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

Anyways. If you go to a christian apologetics site they'll tell you what you are telling me, that surely any inconsistancies and absurdities are 'misunderstandings' on my part no matter what the text may say.

Unless I use circular logic, why should I believe either of you more than the other?

That said, Id like to re-dirct my post back to the original offer, what are some of the general problems in evolution?

[Jayson]

A scientist shows that the world is round, everyone ignores him

A scientist claims the earth travels around the sun, people threaten to kill him

A scientist demonstrates electricity, he is called a witch

A scientist explains evolution, people come out with poorly researched halfassed arguments from googled websites that have been refuted time and time again and then attempt to get evolution taken out of science classes.

Why is it that despite scientists spending their lives in meticulous research, and open experimentation and documentation their theories are constantly ignored?

Evolution is an excellent theory spanning many disciplines, it has moved far from the realm of the Origin of Species into actual living examples, DNA models and mathematical proofs. People make arguments against it without even knowing what they are arguing about, this is equivalent to a bunch of people who know nothing about mechanics debating that a car cant work because its clearly impossible to make petrol turn into motion.

Well i've got news for you, the Koran does not refute the internal combustion engine, neither does it refute the theory of evolution.

[Md Mashud]

It is a basic, in Islam. Even muslims, do not attempt to do what you do - that is read translation and make somthing of it. It is not an "excuse", their is Quran's over 1000 years - still available - showing Quran with tafsir of the texts, why would that exist if we could all just read and interperet?

As for christianity, I see what you mean about the bible. However, do christians have one original message of bible from the beginning? Was this ever created? Quran texts, to people as incapable as us, would just be a ambigious game of find 10 meanings per sentence. Tafsir was made once, at the start, for a reason - so people do not do this.


As for evolution: http://www.islamicboard.com/824800-post60.html
Here for long version: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/evolve.htm

Most people are unaware as to what exactly Quran states about evolution.

Well i've got news for you, the Koran does not refute the internal combustion engine, neither does it refute the theory of evolution.

It denies macroevolution of humans.

[Isambard]

How is God the "agent of evolution" when agency is given natural selection and trail and error. If God is responsible for this then he would be incredibly wasteful not to mention you are using God as being synonymus to chance.

That said, here is some evidence for human evolution (thus proof the Qur'an contradicts science)

Here is Hominid species http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html

Here is fossil record http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html

[Md Mashud]

How is God the "agent of evolution" when agency is given natural selection and trail and error.

You have made evolution its own agent - it came from nothing and formed everything?

I can't see how those websites can show Quran contradicts science. I mean, you can make it that those hominid fossils are of those of the human lineage - but really you can't say that for definite - its not just religious people who disagree but many atheist/agnostic scientists, so for fair play, its wrong to say Quran contradicts science. I have seen both sides on the evolution, I only wish I had a pHD in Microbiology, in hope that I could understand the complex science a bit more...

Some of the main issues is that, some of the different fossils - would appear that they cannot be linked with eachother and hence would mean they spiral out to different species - if they was to evolve - hard to explain but - maybe you know what I mean. It makes you wonder if truly one of the strands, did completly exist in full - and reach to the human lineage.

But assumptions aside, its hard to call it the be all and end for evolution - it depends how you look at the glass...

[bewildred]

Essalamou alaykoum,

Don't get me wrong here but I wonder about how constructive all these threads concerning evolution are. It seems like the non-muslims are not inclined to change their position on that point and neither are the muslims. So what's the use of having threads that will end undoubtly by being closed???

Bewildred S.

[Woodrow]