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shible
10-10-2007, 07:56 PM
:sl:

Islam is widely considered Europe's fastest growing religion, with immigration and above average birth rates leading to a rapid increase in the Muslim population.
The exact number of Muslims is difficult to establish however, as census figures are often questioned and many countries choose not to compile such information anyway.




ALBANIA
Total population: 3.1 million

Muslim population: 2.2 million (70%)

Background: Religious worship was banned in Albania until the transition from Stalinist state to democracy in the 1990s. Islam is now openly recognised as the country's major religion and most Albanians are Sunni Muslim by virtue of the nation's history: The Balkans has had centuries of association with the faith as many parts of it were part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. While the empire is long gone, the culture remained in place. Significant populations of Albanian Muslims exist in a number of other European countries.

Sources: Total population - Albanian Institute of Statistics, 2005; Muslim population - UK Foreign Office.




AUSTRIA
Total population: 8.2 million

Muslim population: 339,000 (4.1%)

Background: Large numbers of Muslims lived under Austrian rule when Bosnia-Hercegovina was annexed by Austria-Hungary in 1908. Many of Austria's Muslims have roots in Turkey and others arrived from the Balkans during the 1990s wars - partly because of historical ties. Islam has been recognised as an official religion in Austria for many years, meaning that it has a role in the religious teaching in schools. Vienna has historically been regarded as the point where the Islamic world reached its most western point, a critical battle in Austria in the 16th century marking the beginning of the decline of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Sources: Total population - Statistics Austria, 2005 figures; Muslim population - Statistics Austria, 2001 figures.




BELGIUM
Total population: 10.3 million

Muslim population: 0.4 million (4%)

Background: Islam is one of seven recognised religions in Belgium, a status that brings it a number of subsidies and official roles, such as providing teachers. Despite this there have been complaints of discrimination. Unemployment and poor housing have been one such cause of tension. There have also been claims of discrimination against women in traditional dress. A majority of Belgium's Muslims are of Moroccan or Turkish origin; many others are from Albania. (Citizenship is available after seven years).


Sources: Total population - Statistics Belgium 2001; Muslim population - US State Department.






BOSNIA-HERCEGOVINA
Total population: 3.8 million

Muslim population: 1.5 million (40%)

Background: Bosnia-Hercegovina is still recovering from the bloody inter-ethnic war of 1992-95. Around 250,000 people died in the conflict between Bosnian Muslims, Croats and Serbs. Almost 8,000 Muslims were killed by Bosnian Serbs at Srebrenica in 1995 - Europe's worst atrocity since World War II. Many Muslims were displaced, as were members of other communities. A peacekeeping force remains in the country, whose frontiers have long been considered the western borders of the Islamic faith in Europe.

Sources: Total population - Agency for Statistics Bosnia and Herzegovina, 2003 figures; Muslim population - US State Department.




DENMARK
Total population: 5.4 million

Muslim population: 270,000 (5%)

Background: In the 1970s Muslims arrived from Turkey, Pakistan, Morocco and the former Yugoslavia to work. In the 1980s and 90s the majority of Muslim arrivals were refugees and asylum seekers from Iran, Iraq, Somalia and Bosnia. Access to housing and employment have been sources of concern for Muslims in Denmark. (A minority have citizenship).

Sources: Total population - Statistics Denmark, 2004 figures; Muslim population - US State Department.




FRANCE
Total population: 62.3 million

Muslim population: Five to six million (8-9.6%)

Background: The French Muslim population is the largest in western Europe. About 70% have their heritage in former north African colonies of Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia. France favours integration and many Muslims are citizens. Nevertheless, the growth of the community has challenged the French ideal of strict separation of religion and public life. There has been criticism that Muslims face high unemployment and often live in poor suburbs. A ban on religious symbols in public schools provoked a major national row as it was widely regarded as being a ban on the Islamic headscarf. Late 2005 saw widespread and prolonged rioting among mainly immigrant communities across France.

Sources: Total population - National Institute for Statistics and Economic Studies, 2004 figures; Muslim population - French government estimate.





GERMANY
Total population: 82.5 million

Muslim population: 3 million (3.6%)

Background: The majority of the Muslim population is Turkish, with many retaining strong links to Turkey. Others arrived from Bosnia and Kosovo during the Balkan wars. Until recently Muslims were considered "guest workers", who would one day leave the country - a view that is changing. Racist violence is a sensitive issue, with the authorities trying a range of strategies to beat it. Steps are being taken to improve integration.

Sources: Total population - Federal Statistical Office, 2004 figures; Muslim population - Federal Ministry of the Interior estimate.



ITALY
Total population: 58.4 million

Muslim population: 825,000 (1.4%)

Background: The Muslim population is diverse, the largest group coming from Morocco. Others are from elsewhere in North Africa, south Asia, Albania, and the Middle East. Most arrived from the 1980s onwards, many of them as students. Italy is working to formalise relations between the state and the Muslim community. Up to 160,000 Muslims are Italian born. Most Muslims have the right to reside and work in Italy, but are not citizens.

Sources: Total population - Italian National Statistical Institute; Muslim population - UK Foreign Office.





MACEDONIA
Total population: 2.1 million

Muslim population: 630,000 (30%)

Background: Macedonia's largest religion is Macedonian Orthodox, but almost one third of the population describe themselves as Muslim. Macedonia was spared the inter-ethnic violence that affected much of the Balkans following the break-up of Yugoslavia. But in early 2001 rebels staged an uprising demanding greater rights for the ethnic Albanian minority - a group which includes most Muslims. With EU and Nato support a deal was reached offering them greater rights, although some have been unhappy with the pace of change. The US State Department suggests that religious freedom is generally respected and that "societal discrimination is more likely to be based upon ethnic bias" than religion.

Sources: Total population - UK Foreign Office; Muslim population - UK Foreign Office.






NETHERLANDS
Total population: 16.3 million

Muslim population: 945,000 or 5.8%

Background: The integration of Muslims remains a concern for the Dutch government, particularly after a film-maker critical of Islam was murdered in 2004 by a radical Islamist. Further tensions surround the view held by some that there is a high level of crime among Muslim youths and a problem with unemployment. In the 1950s Muslims arrived from the former colonies of Suriname and Indonesia. One of the most important groups is the substantial Somali minority. Others are from Turkey and Morocco. The Netherlands favours multiculturalism, essentially the accommodation of different groups on equal terms.

Sources: Total population - Statistics Netherlands, 2005 figures; Muslim population - Statistics Netherlands, 2004 figures.





SERBIA AND MONTENEGRO (WITH KOSOVO)
Total population: 10.8 million (including Kosovo); 8.1 million (excluding Kosovo)

Muslim population: Serbia and Montenegro - 405,000 (5%); Kosovo - about 1.8 million (90%)

Background (excluding Kosovo): Within Serbia and Montenegro the predominant religion is Serbian Orthodoxy. Islam is the second largest faith, with Muslims accounting for about 5% of the population, rising to about 20% in Montenegro. The Muslim community is considered one of seven "traditional" religious communities. Religion and ethnicity remain closely linked across the country and discrimination and tensions continue to be reported.

Kosovo background: The late 1990s saw devastating conflict after the Kosovo Liberation Army, supported by the majority ethnic Albanians - most of whom are Muslim - came out in open rebellion against Serbian rule. Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic began "ethnic cleansing" against the Kosovo Albanian population. Thousands died and hundreds of thousands fled. Nato intervened between March and June 1999 with a 78 day bombing campaign to push back Serb forces and Kosovo remains under UN control. The ethnic Albanian community has expressed frustration at the length of time being taken to decide Kosovo's future status. Attacks against Kosovo's remaining minority Serb population have caused concern.

Sources: Total population - UK Foreign Office; Muslim population - US State Department.






SPAIN
Total population: 43.1 million

Muslim population: 1 million (2.3%)

Background: Almost eight centuries of Moorish rule over Spain came to an end in 1492, providing the country with a strong Islamic legacy, particularly in its architecture. The modern Muslim population started to arrive in significant numbers in the 1970s. Many were Moroccans coming to work in tourism and subsequent growth came when their families joined them. The state recognises Islam, affording it a number of privileges including the teaching of Islam in schools and religious holidays. There have been some reports of tension towards Muslim immigrants. Spain was shaken in 2004 when terror attacks by suspected radical Islamists killed 191 people on Madrid commuter trains.

Sources: Total population - Spanish National Institute of Statistics, 2005 figures; Muslim population - US State Department.




SWEDEN

Total population: 9 million

Muslim population: 300,000 (3%)

Background: The Muslim population is broad - with significant groups from Turkey, Bosnia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon and Syria. The size of the Muslim population is such that representative bodies receive state funding. Sweden favours multiculturalism and immigrants can become citizens after five years. Sweden prides itself on its tolerance, but there has been criticism that Muslims are too often blamed for society's problems.

Sources: Total population - Statistics Sweden, 2005 figures; Muslim population - US State Department.







SWITZERLAND
Total population: 7.4 million

Muslim population: 310,800 (4.2%)

Background: Official figures suggest the Muslim population has doubled in recent years, but some sources say there are also about 150,000 Muslims in the country illegally. The first Muslims arrived as workers in the 1960s, mostly from Turkey, the former Yugoslavia and Albania. They were joined by their families in the 1970s and, in recent years, by asylum seekers. (Comparatively few have citizenship.)

Sources: Total population - Swiss Federal Statistical Office, 2003 figures; Muslim population - Swiss Federal Statistical Office, 2000 figures.





TURKEY
Total population: 68.7 million

Muslim population: 68 million (99%)

Background: Although Turkey is a secular state, Islam is an important part of Turkish life. Its application to join the EU divided existing members, some of which questioned whether a poor, Muslim country could fit in. Turkey accused its EU opponents of favouring a "Christian club". Membership talks were formally launched in October 2005, with negotiations expected to take 10 years. Most Turks are Sunni Muslim, but a significant number are of the Alevi branch of Shias.


Sources: Total population - Turkish State Institute of Statistics, 2003 figures; Muslim population - US State Department.






UNITED KINGDOM
Total population: 58.8 million

Muslim population: 1.6 million (2.8%)

Background: The UK has a long history of contact with Muslims, with links forged from the Middle Ages onwards. In the 19th Century Yemeni men came to work on ships, forming one of the country's first Muslim communities. In the 1960s, significant numbers of Muslims arrived as people in the former colonies took up offers of work. Some of the first were East African Asians, while many came from south Asia. Permanent communities formed and at least 50% of the current population was born in the UK. Significant communities with links to Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and the Balkans also exist. The 2001 Census showed one third of the Muslim population was under 16 - the highest proportion for any group. It also highlighted high levels of unemployment, low levels of qualifications and low home ownership. The UK favours multiculturalism, an idea shared by other countries which, in general terms, accepts all cultures as having equal value and has influence over how government engages with minorities.

Sources: Total population - Office for National Statistics, 2001 figures; Muslim population - Office for National Statistics, 2001 figures.



source

BBC - Islam in Europe

:w:
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Na7lah
10-10-2007, 07:59 PM
Mashallah thnks 4 sharing
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Kittygyal
10-10-2007, 08:05 PM
Salamualikum.
Shukran brother
Ma'assalama
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Amadeus85
10-10-2007, 08:05 PM
I read somewhere that 50 years ago there was 6 muslims in Germany.Now its about 3,5 million. Impressive growth.Bernard Lewis predicts that at the end of this century Europe will have muslim majority.
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shible
10-10-2007, 08:13 PM
:sl:

the below census was taken by US Census Bureau on 2005


US census on Europe



:w:
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جوري
10-10-2007, 08:14 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0726/p01s08-woeu.htmli.e the christian science monitor
Page 1 of 3

Wiesbaden, Germany - In the Rhine Valley city of Mannheim, the glittering minaret of Germany's biggest mosque overshadows what was once the region's most vibrant church, testifying to Muslims' new confidence as Christian churches are closing down.

Years ago, 180 sisters of the Catholic order of the Sisters of the Divine Savior were the pulse of the city. Today, eight remain. Every weekend, roughly 150 Roman Catholics attend mass at the Liebfrauen Church, while up to 3,000 Muslims throng the Yavuz-Sultan-Selim mosque. Since the mosque was opened in 1995, Muslim shops and youth centers have become a magnet for the Muslim community.

Mannheim is not unique. Across Europe, the Continent's fastest-growing religion is establishing its public presence after decades in basements and courtyards, changing not only the architectural look of cities, but also their social fabrics.

Hailed by many as a sign of Muslim integration, the phenomenon is also feared as evidence of a parallel Islamic world threatening Europe's Christian culture.

"Muslims have come out ... and have become visible," says Claus Leggewie, a political scientist at Germany's University of Giessen who wrote a study on the evolution of the mosque landscape in Germany. "By building expensive, representative mosques, they're sending a message: we want to take part in the symbolic landscape of Germany. We are here and we'll stay here."

Major mosque projects from Cologne, Germany, to Amsterdam to Seville, Spain, have met with fierce opposition and fears that they will serve as breeding grounds for terrorists. Family members of two of the suspects in the Glasgow, Scotland, car bombings this month said the men had been radicalized by Tablighi Jamaat, an Islamic revivalist group with plans for an 18-acre complex near London's 2012 Olympic stadium that would house Europe's largest mosque.

A local debate in Wiesbaden

Such a structure is a far cry from the dark, cramped basement that hosted Halif Kuzpinar's Friday prayers for 33 years after he left his native Turkey to work on Frankfurt's roads. Then, the Muslim group he belongs to bought a vacant supermarket in a residential neighborhood of Wiesbaden, a city in central Germany.

"There are parking spots. Children can come. There are better facilities for the youths," says Mr. Kuzpinar. "We want to build something nice so that people can come and see what we're doing."

With a place of its own, Milli Gorus – an Islamic Turkish rights group watched by the German government – is looking for something it never had: public recognition in a country its members consider theirs.

Page 1 | 2 | 3 | Next Pa

plus here in the U.S 20,000 converts yearly
watch for yourself
http://news.propeller.com/story/2007...runs-to-islam/


so yeah I'd say it is pretty impressive...
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shible
10-10-2007, 08:19 PM
Masha Allah that's a Great new Sis
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Amadeus85
10-10-2007, 08:25 PM
I think that muslim immigration may be a positive thing for europeans in some way. The presence of large number of muslims in secular Europe may change behaviour and attitude of europeans and bring them back to christian faith.Nowadays in Europe most children have muslims and conservative christians.And this trend will be bigger with every next generation.I read a work by american scientist who said that in the next decades majority of (native) europeans will be very conservative christians. It will be reaction to muslim immigration.Actually this is what pope Benedict XVI is talking about.But of course this is the positive prediction.
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جوري
10-10-2007, 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by shible
Masha Allah that's a Great new Sis
It is indeed akhi.. for it is Allah's will and promise...

يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِؤُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ {8}
[Pickthal 61:8] Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse.

61:8] Their intention is to extinguish Allah's Light (by blowing) with their mouths: But Allah will complete (the revelation of) His Light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).


I have just made a thread of members to be ousted from here I suggest all Muslims go and vote against useless members..
:w:
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Amadeus85
10-10-2007, 08:48 PM
From the other hand, big numbers of muslim immigrants can change Western Europe into new Balkans.My point is that muslim immigrants in Europe remain religious and native Europeans remain nationalist.
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Isambard
10-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Sorry Aaron. I dont see secular Europe becoming religious being a good thing.
Especially with the growing cases of violence and violations age old rights.
Perhaps I am being overly pessimistic, but the growing number of muslims means Europe may slide more and more into a theocracy and we all know how happy and joyful traditional european (or any) theocracies have been

:S
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Anwarica
10-10-2007, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Sorry Aaron. I dont see secular Europe becoming religious being a good thing.
Especially with the growing cases of violence and violations age old rights.
Perhaps I am being overly pessimistic, but the growing number of muslims means Europe may slide more and more into a theocracy and we all know how happy and joyful traditional european (or any) theocracies have been
Don't worry, when Islamic countries applied Islamic rules in the Middle ages, they were superior in science, health, administration and everything. :)
Unlike what people might expect, when Muslims are away from Islam, they fall down (like these days), while when they adhere to it, they rise and shine. That's what most people should notice. :)
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Isambard
10-10-2007, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Anwarica
Don't worry, when Islamic countries applied Islamic rules in the Middle ages, they were superior in science, health, administration and everything. :)
Unlike what people might expect, when Muslims are away from Islam, they fall down (like these days), while when they adhere to it, they rise and shine. That's what most people should notice. :)
Yes but the Western nations have come along way since the Middle Ages. Even the most egalitarian Muslim nation of the past is still at a loss in terms of personal liberties and equality if compared to the western democracies of today and thats what worries me. An Islamic state would be a major step backwards.
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wilberhum
10-10-2007, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Anwarica
Don't worry, when Islamic countries applied Islamic rules in the Middle ages, they were superior in science, health, administration and everything. :)
Unlike what people might expect, when Muslims are away from Islam, they fall down (like these days), while when they adhere to it, they rise and shine. That's what most people should notice. :)
I agree with Isambard and my concerns do not about science, health, and administration.

I’m definitely not interested in living under any "Middle ages" system.
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Anwarica
10-11-2007, 03:20 AM
Well, you should watch this middle age superpower first. :)

If this nation - the Islamic nation - was to stick to the rules of Islam, it would have been way much better than the USA itself for instance.

I also suggest this great refutation about the Islamic civilization.
P.S. As an Egyptian, all people here know that we are restricted from "Studying" or conducting any researches in many fields, that's because of the political issues, but that won't last for ever .. one day our scientists will come back (if they aren't assassinated as usual) and it will be a matter of few years.

Now, you know how everything started, I personally like to live under the "middle age" system if this system will provide everything I need for a decent life including politics, science, etc and even ethics (I don't like to live in places where crime such as killing, rape, etc are at their peak). :)
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جوري
10-11-2007, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by Anwarica
Well, you should watch this middle age superpower first. :)

If this nation - the Islamic nation - was to stick to the rules of Islam, it would have been way much better than the USA itself for instance.

I also suggest this great refutation about the Islamic civilization.
P.S. As an Egyptian, all people here know that we are restricted from "Studying" or conducting any researches in many fields, that's because of the political issues, but that won't last for ever .. one day our scientists will come back (if they aren't assassinated as usual) and it will be a matter of few years.

Now, you know how everything started, I personally like to live under the "middle age" system if this system will provide everything I need for a decent life including politics, science, etc and even ethics (I don't like to live in places where crime such as killing, rape, etc are at their peak). :)
:sl:
Sob7an Allah.. I was actually amused as I was reading the other day that the technique we use including many of the surgical equipments of today were first designed by Al-Zahrawi brilliant surgeon of the 10th century... in fact when we do colonscopies to remove polyps of all varities (papillary adenoma, , tubular adenoma, tubulovillous adenoma), we always leave ink mark on the spot which lasts a good 5-10 yrs so when you go in the next time to see if there is new growth, you won't be lost in loops of bowel.. how sophisticated a technique and precise the instruments.. Surgery hasn't changed much... except in the use of antibiotics and fluid and electrolyte monitoring and replacements, ins and outs of urine, although I am sure that didn't escape them back then, and they had many healing herbs...

You know I wouldn't mind going back to the golden age.. would take a few things back with me and bring somethings forward if I could...


:w:
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north_malaysian
10-11-2007, 05:08 AM
From Christian source (as at 2005):

Muslim population (percentage of total population)

* Albania - 2,003,317 (64.01%)
* Andorra - 560 (0.83%)
* Armenia - 71,031 (2.35%)
* Austria - 349,711 (4.27%)
* Azerbaijan - 7,316,562 (86.99%)
* Belgium - 371,775 (3.75%)
* Belorussia - 25,700 (0.26%)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina - 2,165,273 (55.42%)
* Britain - 1,524,990 (2.56%)
* Bulgaria - 934,496 (12.10%)
* Channel Islands - 116 (0.08%)
* Croatia - 104,037 (2.29%)
* Cyprus (Greek Admin.) - 2,793 (0.43%)
* Cyprus (Turkish Admin.) - 186,327 (97.95%)
* Czech Republic - 1,298 (0.01%)
* Denmark - 190,711 (3.51%)
* Estonia - 3,675 (0.28%)
* Finland - 23,745 (0.45%)
* France - 5,027,901 (8.31%)
* Georgia - 446,630 (9.98%)
* Germany - 3,695,581 (4.47%)
* Gibraltar - 1,364 (4.89%)
* Greece - 537,491 (4.83%)
* Greenland - 10 (0.02%)
* Hungary - 23,821 (0.24%)
* Iceland - 260 (0.09%)
* Ireland - 27,608 (0.67%)
* Isle of Man - 161 (0.21%)
* Italy - 1,326,909 (2.28%)
* Latvia - 5,824 (0.25%)
* Liechtenstein - 2,166 (6.27%)
* Lithuania - 6,605 (0.19%)
* Luxembourg - 4,689 (1.01%)
* Macedonia - 589,278 (28.97%)
* Malta - 989 (0.25%)
* Moldavia - 32,640 (0.78%)
* Monaco - 159 (0.45%)
* Montenegro - 101,973 (16.45%)
* Netherlands - 980,796 (6.02%)
* Norway - 129,712 (2.81%)
* Poland - 8,453 (0.02%)
* Portugal - 25,542 (0.24%)
* Romania - 158,561 (0.73%)
* Russia - 14,871,762 (10.39%)
* San Marino - 6 (0.02%)
* Serbia - 1,935,195 (19.58%)
* Slovakia - 518 (0.01%)
* Slovenia - 35,885 (1.82%)
* Spain - 581,799 (1.35%)
* Sweden - 237,508 (2.63%)
* Switzerland - 283,821 (3.91%)
* Turkey - 71,285,299 (97.39%)
* Ukraine - 996,452 (2.14%)

source: http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org
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north_malaysian
10-11-2007, 05:57 AM
From US Dept. of State's International Religious Freedom Report 2007

* Albania - 2,520,000 (70.00%)
* Andorra - 2,000 (2.46%)
* Austria - 339,000 (4.20%)
* Azerbaijan - 8,160,000 (96.00%)
* Belgium - 400,000 (3.81%)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina - 1,560,000 (40.00%)
* Bulgaria - 1,001,000 (13.00%)
* Croatia - 45,000 (1.00%)
* Cyprus (Greek Admin.) - 4,672 (0.60%)
* Cyprus (Turkish Admin.) - 263,798 (99.51%)
* Denmark - 210,000 (3.70%)
* Finland - 20,000 (0.38%)
* France - 6,371,000 (10.00%)
* Georgia - 440,000 (10.00%)
* Germany - 3,500,000 (4.27%)
* Iceland - 1,000 (0.33%)
* Ireland - 32,539 (0.76%)
* Latvia - 380 (0.02%)
* Liechtenstein - 1,690 (4.80%)
* Lithuania - 2,700 (0.08%)
* Luxembourg - 9,000 (1.96%)
* Macedonia - 672,000 (32.00%)
* Malta - 3,000 (0.75%)
* Montenegro - 113,400 (18.00%)
* Netherlands - 978,000 (6.00%)
* Norway - 72,023 (1.57%)
* Portugal - 35,000 (0.33%)
* Russia - 23,000,000 (16.11%)
* Serbia (excluding Kosova) - 375,000 (5.00%)
* Slovakia - 5,000 (0.09%)
* Slovenia - 47,488 (2.00%)
* Spain - 1,080,000 (2.42%)
* Sweden - 450,000 (4.95%)
* Switzerland - 320,471 (4.30%)
* Turkey - 71,874,000 (99.00%)
* Ukraine - 2,000,000 (4.26%)
* United Kingdom - 1,806,000 (3.00%)


Source: http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/
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جوري
10-11-2007, 07:04 AM
a bit of a discrepancy between the two lists.. I think the one on the bottom is probably more uptodate... definitely a growth... and that is what they are willing to admit to...

:w:
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north_malaysian
10-11-2007, 07:20 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
a bit of a discrepancy between the two lists.. I think the one on the bottom is probably more uptodate... definitely a growth... and that is what they are willing to admit to...

:w:
maybe Muslims should conduct our own statistics...
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north_malaysian
10-11-2007, 07:42 AM
From Muslim source:-

* Albania - 2,240,000 (70.00%)
* Andorra - 630 (0.63%)
* Armenia - 120,000 (4.00%)
* Austria - 190,000 (2.23%)
* Azerbaijan - 7,845,600 (93.40%)
* Belgium - 380,000 (3.60%)
* Belorussia - 10,000 (0.10%)
* Bosnia-Herzegovina - 2,340,000 (60.06%)
* Bulgaria - 910,000 (11.87%)
* Croatia - 130,000 (3.00%)
* Cyprus - 230,000 (23.00%)
* Czech Republic - 20,000 (0.20%)
* Denmark - 160,000 (3.02%)
* Estonia - 10,000 (0.70%)
* Finland - 10,000 (0.18%)
* France - 6,120,000 (10.00%)
* Georgia - 900,000 (20.00%)
* Germany - 3,050,000 (3.70%)
* Greece - 170,000 (1.50%)
* Hungary - 10,000 (0.10%)
* Iceland - 120 (0.04%)
* Ireland - 410 (0.01%)
* Italy - 1,420,000 (2.40%)
* Latvia - 10,000 (0.38%)
* Liechtenstein - 1,372 (3.43%)
* Lithuania - 4,760 (0.14%)
* Luxembourg - 10,000 (1.10%)
* Macedonia - 600,000 (30.00%)
* Malta - 4,400 (1.10%)
* Moldova - 10,000 (0.20%)
* Monaco - 150 (0.50%)
* Netherlands - 890,000 (5.40%)
* Norway - 50,000 (1.04%)
* Poland - 40,000 (0.10%)
* Portugal - 50,000 (0.50%)
* Romania - 220,000 (1.00%)
* Russia - 27,040,000 (19.00%)
* Serbia and Montenegro - 2,000,000 (19.00%)
* Slovakia - 1,080 (0.02%)
* Slovenia - 30,000 (1.55%)
* Spain - 550,000 (1.20%)
* Sweden - 280,000 (3.10%)
* Switzerland - 230,000 (3.10%)
* Turkey - 72,754,200 (99.80%)
* Ukraine - 210,000 (0.45%)
* United Kingdom - 1,510,000 (2.50%)

Source: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_islam.html
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Danah
10-11-2007, 07:51 AM
subhan Allah al athem.

people think that the wrong view for islam form Europe will make people hate Islam. But what is happening is the opposite.
La Illaha Ila Allah


Ths an interestingarticle I have found a few days before. I would like you to share.

You would have thought that the September 11 attacks would have damaged the name of Islam forever but you know what…

It made many people study Islam to understand who exactly the Muslims are and what they’re all about. It made people go out and buy the Koran and as a result many British, Americans and non-Muslims across the world have accepted Islam! The huge interest in Islam since September 11 has brought a massive increase in conversions to Islam as never ever seen before. Now let’s check out the facts:

MASSIVE INTEREST IN ISLAM
The Observer

’Interest in Islam mounts after hijacking atrocity’

Martin Bright, Sunday September 1, 2002

“..A year ago they feared their religion would be tarred by the atrocities that left over 3,000 dead in the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. But Muslims across Britain are now crediting an ‘11 September factor’ for the upsurge of interest in their religion.

From Islamic bookshops and university comparative religion courses to the dusty corridors of Whitehall, non-Muslims are rushing to find out more about the beliefs of Islam and the life of the Prophet Mohammed.

Sales of the Muslim holy book, the Koran, have gone through the roof. Penguin, the publishers of the best-known English-language translation of the Koran, registered a 15-fold increase in the three months following 11 September and sales have held up well since. “

MASSIVE INCREASE IN CONVERSIONS TO ISLAM

The Times

7 January 2002

‘Allah came knocking at my heart‘ by Giles Whittell

“There is compelling anecdotal evidence of a surge in conversions to Islam since September 11, not just in Britain, but across Europe and America. One Dutch Islamic centre claims a tenfold increase, while the New Muslims Project, based in Leicester and run by a former Irish Roman Catholic housewife, reports a steady stream of new converts.

These are some of Islam’s more surprising converts. They have chosen their new creed over the world’s other great religions having had the privilege of choice, often confounding their own and their families’ prejudices in the process. They are highly articulate and tolerant to a degree. They’re people like us, only they’re not. They’re Muslims. They pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan and hope to go to Mecca before they die. They answer their mobiles with salaam alaikum.”
Reply

guyabano
10-11-2007, 08:02 AM
Of course, Islam is the fastest growing religion...ACTUALLY! History of mankind can show up with many of those religion shifting/convertings/revertings. But this can change again in 50 years.
But as it has been mentionned already many times in the forum (but somehow, people here love to ignore it), Islam is only growing so fast due to birth rate within the muslim world PLUS check the top list of those countries where Islam is growing fastest. It's mostly poor countries from Africa.
All other countries, there is also a growth, but that is more due to immigration.
You come here on the forum, you see everyday reverting somebody to Islam, and everybody is applauding. You go to a christian forum, every day, a muslim become a christian, and again, everybody cheer there.
So what is the point? For, me, there is nothing new on that.

But then comes my question: Why all theses muslims leave their countries? They are comming to the west for a better life. So, better life,, hummm, but the west is secular..hmmm. So couldn't it be, that secular systems are not soooo bad, as muslims pretend? What about this so-called decadence of the west, all women are prostitues there, etc...? But still, a lot of muslims decide to settle down in 'these' countries called Evil. But these Evil countries curiously are able to give them a good paid job and food. Then, further, muslims, once here, want again to change it and revert to whole system to Islamic law. I would call that a Step backwards.

Also, as Isambard said already, Islam will never take place in the west. That will remain a wishdreaming.
You will NOT be able to change West to Islamic as much as it will work with Christianity in Middle East. The roots are too deep on both sides.
Honestly, I like it this way. A coexistance of both will be possible. Anyway it's already working pretty fine. If both sides (muslims and christians) make efforts to allow a peaceful co-existance, and also both are ready to change some of their habits, then I see no problems.
Reply

Anwarica
10-11-2007, 11:11 AM
Let me bring up this video again, the last part of it will prove the conspiracy.

If any non-Muslim here understand Arabic, I'm ready to show you the confession of the Christian Orthodox priests in Egypt when they say every day there's 80 to 200 Christian convert to Islam .. another Coptic thinker said, if this rate is still going, Christians will disappear from Egypt within 100 years! ..
I will tell you something funny, if you think they're forced, I will tell you that the reverse is true ^o)

Coptic Girls Converting to islam, live in fear.
2 copt girls ask 4 protection 'cause they convert to islam.
They are final year medical students, who Choosed to be muslims.. They learned that islam completes christianity, and that it answers all the questions that they were not able to find in chritianity. Copts understand Arabic and thus have the advantage to read the Quraan in its original Language.
These 2 girls are tired ,like many of the copts who wilingly accepted islam, from the extremist copts who want them back to christianity.. They are asking for protection...
Please leave them alone.. Have mercy..
Why am I posting this? to show you that even in Islamic countries, we can't even protect Christians who convert to Islam, sometimes they are reverting back to Christianity by force. This the force that people in the west think that Muslims use!
This is why I brought the first video in the post, they complete each other.

Alhumdolilah, I see the new Muslim generation way better than the past ones, I'm sure that many things will change.

Please, no one reminds me with the Egyptian scientists:
Samira Mousa
On August 5, 1952 after her first visit to America she intended to return home, but was invited to go on a trip. On the way, the bus rushed down from a height of 40 feet, which killed her immediately.
Mostafa Mosharafa
Einstein said on hearing of his death, "I can not believe that Mosharafa is dead, he is alive through his researches. We are in need of his talents, it is a great loss, he was a genius. I used to follow up his researches in atomic energy, definitely he is one of the best scientists in physics."
There's also Yahya El-Mashad, he was murdered in France, the man was working in the nuclear program in Iraq .. surely you don't see adequate English resources for those incidents because the western media likes to blackout, they only discuss whatever goes with their objectives.

As a scientist you have 2 choices .. to live in the place you are right now where no one will appreciate your work due to this international political pressure or you can travel to the west and death will be your end if you thought to return with valuable data in some fields.

I hope that a new picture of - what's going on - has been added clearly. :)
Reply

guyabano
10-11-2007, 12:38 PM
You should also watch this video. This woman might be an ex-muslim, but she also call for 'everyone's free expression of religion'

Media Tags are no longer supported
Reply

Anwarica
10-11-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
You should also watch this video. This woman might be an ex-muslim, but she also call for 'everyone's free expression of religion'
I watched it before the responses, for the full responses of this issue:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post833972

The friend who showed me this video is a Christian, he was convinced by Sheik Ibrahim refutation .. although my friend isn't Egyptian, he didn't even know who's Wafa Sultan, he found that video after watching this video of Ummah films by brother Ali.

Quran (2:256) "There is no compulsion in religion." :)
Reply

Amadeus85
10-11-2007, 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
You will NOT be able to change West to Islamic as much as it will work with Christianity in Middle East. The roots are too deep on both sides.
Honestly, I like it this way. A coexistance of both will be possible. Anyway it's already working pretty fine. If both sides (muslims and christians) make efforts to allow a peaceful co-existance, and also both are ready to change some of their habits, then I see no problems.
See at Kosovo. Kosovo is as important for Serbs as Jerusalem is important to Jews and Mecca to muslims. 100 years ago Kosovo had christian majority. During this century due to high muslim birth rate and immigration from Albania Kosovo is in 90% muslim.
Reply

guyabano
10-11-2007, 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
See at Kosovo. Kosovo is as important for Serbs as Jerusalem is important to Jews and Mecca to muslims. 100 years ago Kosovo had christian majority. During this century due to high muslim birth rate and immigration from Albania Kosovo is in 90% muslim.
I'm sorry, but you cannot compare Kosovo with a nearby a whole continent.
I hardly can see banning alcoholic drink, neither porc meat, which is essential in western world beeing banned ! Specially the upcoming generation. Go tell some young teenies from nowsadays and take aways their MP3 Player and exchange it with a Quaran. Let's see what he will tell you !
When my memory is good, Spain was also in muslim hand once, today it is back chrisitan, which will not mean, it could change again.
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 02:12 PM
:sl:
You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up
Reply

Amadeus85
10-11-2007, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.
You just miss one important point, that there are some people in the world who really like somthing called freedom and independence.And no matter how great life you would give them under some foregin rule or occupation, those people will still feel bad. Simply because they wouldnt feel free and independent. You could watch Braveheart if you want to see what i mean. :)
Reply

Isambard
10-11-2007, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Anwarica
I watched it before the responses, for the full responses of this issue:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post833972

The friend who showed me this video is a Christian, he was convinced by Sheik Ibrahim refutation .. although my friend isn't Egyptian, he didn't even know who's Wafa Sultan, he found that video after watching this video of Ummah films by brother Ali.

Quran (2:256) "There is no compulsion in religion." :)
Ive only seen the first two vids, but I can already tell I wont like this guy. He makes a bunch of wacky assumptions. Ill try to post a refutetaion once I get back from school:)
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 02:24 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You just miss one important point, that there are some people in the world who really like somthing called freedom and independence.And no matter how great life you would give them under some foregin rule or occupation, those people will still feel bad. Simply because they wouldnt feel free and independent. You could watch Braveheart if you want to see what i mean. :)
Such is the insatiable nature of human beings - give them a valley of gold and they want more.
Reply

Isambard
10-11-2007, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up
Why would I love it? I would be a second-class citizen with few negative or positive rights.

Then there's the reason for it, that I am 'unable' to properly think or act for myself so I need a buch of ppl doing whats good for me.

How would this be any different than what Hittler did to the Jews prior to WW2? In both cases you have a group of folks assuming they are intellectually superior to their neighbour
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 02:50 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Isambard
Why would I love it? I would be a second-class citizen with few negative or positive rights.
Off the top of my head,

1) Tax is percentage of income = more disposable income = wealthier/healthier family =stronger economy.

2) No alcohol = healthier people = more disposable income = economy sky rockets

3) Marriage before sex = decrease in premarital sex and diseases which follow, abortion rate is also decreased = less money wasted = more disposable income = stronger economy.

I'm a business man in training, so I've given business related advantages. I could give more but it really deserves its own thread.

Then there's the reason for it, that I am 'unable' to properly think or act for myself so I need a buch of ppl doing whats good for me.
What are you talking about?

How would this be any different than what Hittler did to the Jews prior to WW2? In both cases you have a group of folks assuming they are intellectually superior to their neighbour
Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't. The biggest ''disadvantage'' in terms of business side would be no pubs. However, increased life time would overshadow this ''loss'' since the people are alive for longer, therefore can spend more, therefore more products are produced, therefore more jobs are made available, therefore the economy would rival both US and Japan combined. Keeping in mind that todays society is also very consumerist and employment is low, I can safely say that Sharia law would definately be good for the UK.

The outcome would be no more intellectually superior than present.
Reply

guyabano
10-11-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
You know, if sharia law was introduced properly, you guys would love it. I emphasise properly because the majority of today's interpretation of it usually sucks.

Until then, though, I'm satisfied with living in a country that lets me practice my religion freely, gives me the right to an awesome education, experience multiculturalism at its finest and is the home of chicken tikka massala.

:thumbs_up
THAT will remain your point of view. For my personal choice, I choose secular laws. I got born under, I grew up under, and now I live under.
Even though I don't drink alcohol, I would hardly accept any muslim law.
Plus, if that would happen, then we could say, that Muslims are no better then other people. They also force you to obey their laws. Muslims claim for their rights actually, but in same time, like to oblige different-thinking people to obey to their laws too ?
Somehow a nonsense, no?
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
THAT will remain your point of view. For my personal choice, I choose secular laws. I got born under, I grew up under, and now I live under.
Like I said, if it was introduced properly, you'd love it. Granted, it may take a while.

Even though I don't drink alcohol, I would hardly accept any muslim law.
If it is what the people want, then so be it :).
Plus, if that would happen, then we could say, that Muslims are no better then other people. They also force you to obey their laws. Muslims claim for their rights actually, but in same time, like to oblige different-thinking people to obey to their laws too ?
Somehow a nonsense, no?
How is this different to anyone else?

NB; this is all hypothetical - please do not send me death threats. Thank you.
Reply

guyabano
10-11-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't.
Please apologize, if I drift from topic, but I couldnt hold myself to post this one:

Under this famous Sharia Law, women were even not allowed to go to school in Afghanistan, even not to mention to have a job.

Or you forgot this episode?
Reply

Isambard
10-11-2007, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:

Off the top of my head,

1) Tax is percentage of income = more disposable income = wealthier/healthier family =stronger economy.

2) No alcohol = healthier people = more disposable income = economy sky rockets

3) Marriage before sex = decrease in premarital sex and diseases which follow, abortion rate is also decreased = less money wasted = more disposable income = stronger economy.

I'm a business man in training, so I've given business related advantages. I could give more but it really deserves its own thread.

That it does. I too am a businessman in training so I would be interested in how an Islamic state would deal with business cycles seeing as there is a ban on interest rates.

What are you talking about?

I would be unable to read certain books. Listen to some music. Hang out with my female friends alone and have a drink of two. Have the freedom to write or talk about anything I want etc.

All because a group of folks somewhere feels its bad for me irregardless of my opinion. They are assuming responsibility for me despite me not asking them to which means they assume to be superior to me.

Hitler prevented jews from having jobs - sharia law wouldn't. The biggest ''disadvantage'' in terms of business side would be no pubs. However, increased life time would overshadow this ''loss'' since the people are alive for longer, therefore can spend more, therefore more products are produced, therefore more jobs are made available, therefore the economy would totally own both US and Japan combined.

The outcome would be no more intellectually superior than present.
Shariah would keep me from getting very high in politics. Or from promoting my religion openly (assuming I had one). If I were gay, I would have to be even more worried as I would be put to death. I can also never change the laws because they are 'from God' so my input would be ignored.

In terms of business, I can see alot of problems which wouldnt be resolved unless you go to the Islamic countries of old that relied on plundering others and a slave population, both of which would be big-no-nos today. But as you said, business side of shariah is another thread altogether which id be happy to discuss once I get back from school.

Well Im off to be bored for 3hrs:D
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by guyabano
Please apologize, if I drift from topic, but I couldnt hold myself to post this one:

Under this famous Sharia Law, women were even not allowed to go to school in Afghanistan, even not to mention to have a job.

Or you forgot this episode?
Nowhere does it say in the Quran that women should not have an education, on the contrary, education is encouraged. This is simply Afghanistan being stupid. Sharia law is compromised of common sense in majority cases - unfortunately, today's interpretation (in a general sense) is crap and far from it's original form, though some are close.

Originally Posted by Isambard
Shariah would keep me from getting very high in politics. Or from promoting my religion openly (assuming I had one).
I'm not sure about these two statements, since my knowledge is limited. I'll do some reading though and look into it.

If I were gay, I would have to be even more worried as I would be put to death. I can also never change the laws because they are 'from God' so my input would be ignored.
Only if you commited homosexual behaviour, would you be punished. As for changing the laws; if it aint broke, don't fix it. And, to be blunt, God's law is not broken.

In terms of business, I can see alot of problems which wouldnt be resolved unless you go to the Islamic countries of old that relied on plundering others and a slave population, both of which would be big-no-nos today. But as you said, business side of shariah is another thread altogether which id be happy to discuss once I get back from school.
Make the thread and we'll discuss it in detail.

Well Im off to be bored for 3hrs
Enjoy
Reply

wilberhum
10-11-2007, 04:29 PM
Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.

It totally amazes me that anyone could be so indoctrinated that they think any one would want to be a second class citizen of any society.

Through all of recorded history people have fought for equality. Why would any one think human nature would change so much that people would start to willingly want inequality and inferiority?

But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”
Reply

Amadeus85
10-11-2007, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.


But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”
Wilb, You really dont want to know what is the fate of tasmanian devils under shariah. :hiding:
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Haidar_Abbas
10-11-2007, 06:06 PM
:sl:


:D







^ enough said :D


:sl:
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Same thing as always. Muslims think there theocracy would be Utopia and non-Muslims would love to be second class citizens under it.
No, I think Sharia law would be good for any country, provided it was implimented properly (i.e like it was at the time of the Prophet [saw]).

It totally amazes me that anyone could be so indoctrinated that they think any one would want to be a second class citizen of any society.
Noone has explained this second-class bs to me. Could someone please clarify this. As far as indoctrination goes, It's less of that and more of practical solutions to todays problems.

Through all of recorded history people have fought for equality. Why would any one think human nature would change so much that people would start to willingly want inequality and inferiority?
How would sharia law bring inequality? It's very aim is bringing justice to the people - I've given three examples earlier, all of which breed equality.

But then I’m “The Defiant Dhimmi”
And I'm too halaal for you. :giggling:
Reply

Anwarica
10-11-2007, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Ive only seen the first two vids, but I can already tell I wont like this guy. He makes a bunch of wacky assumptions. Ill try to post a refutetaion once I get back from school:)
I will be waiting for any refutation. :)
Reply

wilberhum
10-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
No, I think Sharia law would be good for any country, provided it was implimented properly (i.e like it was at the time of the Prophet [saw]).
That seams to be the problem. No one can get it right. If a country that has a Muslim majority, even 100%, can't do, it seams it can't be done.

Noone has explained this second-class bs to me. Could someone please clarify this. As far as indoctrination goes, It's less of that and more of practical solutions to todays problems.
If you have legal rights that I don't have, I call that second class. What do you call it. Just recogination of superority?
How about a pratical solution to todays problems that places Muslims as second class citizens"?

How would sharia law bring inequality? It's very aim is bringing justice to the people - I've given three examples earlier, all of which breed equality.
Is that a serious question? Any law based on religion or gender, is obviously not equality. Three examples, so. Who would assume that every single law would promote inequality? I would assume the majority of the laws are good.

And I'm too halaal for you. :giggling:
Probably not. :D There are few things I won't try once. :-[
Reply

snakelegs
10-11-2007, 08:49 PM
Hitler prevented jews from having jobs
understatement of the week/month/year? ;D

actually, it would be very interesting to see what a shariah state would look like in today's world. so if a muslim country decided to opt for it, i would have no objection - in fact i think it would be quite interesting.
the thing about theocracies is that no matter how perfect its religious laws may be, they are carried out by people and it is much harder to challenge theocratic rulers.
in most muslim countries today, the majority are neither educated in islam or in secular knowledge. how would they have any ways to judge how the shariah laws were being observed and carried out?
Reply

aamirsaab
10-11-2007, 09:06 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by wilberhum
That seams to be the problem. No one can get it right. If a country that has a Muslim majority, even 100%, can't do, it seams it can't be done.
Hence I said properly :)


If you have legal rights that I don't have, I call that second class. What do you call it. Just recogination of superority?
How about a pratical solution to todays problems that places Muslims as second class citizens"?
From my knowledge, non-muslims are denied two things under sharia law: involvment in politics and the military. In the case of politics, the power is relevantly small anywho - it's not like they can change God's law. As for military - who would actually WANT that job?

Is that a serious question? Any law based on religion or gender, is obviously not equality.
Well, if you want to go down that road; no law system is truly equal.

Three examples, so. Who would assume that every single law would promote inequality?
Since current law is dictated by an ever-changing society, it is succeptible tp change, thus fundementally flawed. Sharia remains consistent = perfection as far as law is concerned.

I would assume the majority of the laws are good.
Don't get me wrong, most of the current laws are great. Though I do think rapists should get a much harsher sentence - but hey, that's just me.

Probably not. :D There are few things I won't try once. :-[
;D

Originally Posted by snakelegs
understatement of the week/month/year? ;D
Ah you know what I meant! :p

actually, it would be very interesting to see what a shariah state would look like in today's world. so if a muslim country decided to opt for it, i would have no objection - in fact i think it would be quite interesting.
There was a program on channel 4 last week. It showed sharia law being implimented in Nigeria, I think. Though the punishments for crimes did not go down too well with the host, personally I think she was just being difficult, she did admit that crime levels were considerably low. So, I do think it is very effective - though, they seem to have a big problem when it comes with the rape law; it actually does not require 4 witnesses - that's for adultery.... which is way out of my knowledge zone.

the thing about theocracies is that no matter how perfect its religious laws may be, they are carried out by people and it is much harder to challenge theocratic rulers
True.

in most muslim countries today, the majority are neither educated in islam or in secular knowledge. how would they have any ways to judge how the shariah laws were being observed and carried out?
Good point. Though, my initial post (and many after it) have stated that provided it was implimented properly, according to how the Prophet [saw] carried it out - then it would seriously be awesome.

I also stated in my initial post, I like this country as it is :D
Reply

wilberhum
10-11-2007, 09:33 PM
aamirsaab,
From my knowledge, non-muslims are denied two things under sharia law: involvment in politics and the military. In the case of politics, the power is relevantly small anywho - it's not like they can change God's law. As for military - who would actually WANT that job?
God's law is a matter of personl belief. As for the military, many want it. I'm not one of them but there are thousands here is the US that choose it. I know many who are proud of it. Even if noone wants it, the fact remains that you have legalized inequality. Mybe you concider inequality "god's law", but I sure don't.
no law system is truly equal.
Right, that's one of the benifets of a Democracy, you can work on the problem.
Sharia remains consistent = perfection as far as law is concerned.
Consistent does not = perfection any more than fish = bicycle.
IMHO that is the major problem, an antiquated system that can't be fixed.
Don't get me wrong, most of the current laws are great. Though I do think rapists should get a much harsher sentence - but hey, that's just me.
I was talking about Islamic Law. But I agree about harsher sentenseing. Though history has perty muched proven that harsher punishment is of little deturant.

I'm with Snake. It would be interesting, well as long as it is in a Muslim country. But still I don't wish that on the non-Muslims there. So I guess it should be done in KSA, I understad they are 100% Muslims. :skeleton:
Reply

saladin100
10-11-2007, 10:56 PM
026.001 طسم
026.001 Ta, Sin, Mim.

026.002 تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ
026.002 These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

026.003 لَعَلَّكَ بَاخِعٌ نَفْسَكَ أَلا يَكُونُوا مُؤْمِنِينَ
026.003 It may be thou frettest thy soul with grief, that they do not become Believers.

026.004 إِنْ نَشَأْ نُنَزِّلْ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ آيَةً فَظَلَّتْ أَعْنَاقُهُمْ لَهَا خَاضِعِينَ
026.004 If (such) were Our Will, We could send down to them from the sky a Sign, to which they would bend their necks in humility.

026.005 وَمَا يَأْتِيهِمْ مِنْ ذِكْرٍ مِنَ الرَّحْمَنِ مُحْدَثٍ إِلا كَانُوا عَنْهُ مُعْرِضِينَ
026.005 But there comes not to them a newly-revealed Message from (Allah) Most Gracious, but they turn away therefrom.

026.006 فَقَدْ كَذَّبُوا فَسَيَأْتِيهِمْ أَنْبَاءُ مَا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُونَ
026.006 They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at!

026.007 أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الأرْضِ كَمْ أَنْبَتْنَا فِيهَا مِنْ كُلِّ زَوْجٍ كَرِيمٍ
026.007 Do they not look at the earth,- how many noble things of all kinds We have produced therein?

026.008 إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَةً وَمَا كَانَ أَكْثَرُهُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ
026.008 Verily, in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe.

026.009 وَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الرَّحِيمُ
026.009 And verily, thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful.

026.010 وَإِذْ نَادَى رَبُّكَ مُوسَى أَنِ ائْتِ الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ


Al-Qur'an, 026.001-010 (Ash-Shuara [The Poets])
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