PDA

View Full Version : Eid in UK



Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 04:19 PM
:sl:

Its been said it's Eid tommorrow in UK.

Ma'assalama
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
IbnAbdulHakim
10-11-2007, 04:20 PM
^ ye my colleague just informed me its eid in mexico or some other country which i forgot where eids been confirmed for tomorrow.


still lets wait and see that moon!!
Reply

Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Salamualikum.

I just got a text message from my Aalimah from saudi saying 'yes its Eid Tomz' so i guess it is.

Ma'assalama
Reply

'Abd al-Baari
10-11-2007, 04:30 PM
:sl:

yup my cousin got a txt from Saudi too!
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Salamualikum.

Oh i hope were doing altogether ...
Reply

S£mmi
10-11-2007, 04:49 PM
i thought its saturday...hmmmmmmmm the imam hasnt confirmed it down my ends.
Reply

Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 04:50 PM
Salamualikum.
^ Some people doing on Saturday and some people doing it Friday (Tom'z)
But in Saudi it has been confirmed as a yes for Friday

Allaah hu alim
Ma'assalama
Reply

S£mmi
10-11-2007, 04:51 PM
oh right cause for some people it will only mean 29 fasts
Reply

papa_smurf
10-11-2007, 04:53 PM
Assalmualaikum
Just been confirmed on saudi channel.

Eid Mubarak
Reply

Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by S£mmi
oh right cause for some people it will only mean 29 fasts
:sl:

I thought we fast altogther same day :scared:


Ya Allaah...

Never mind

Ma'assalama
Reply

Ghira
10-11-2007, 09:17 PM
Yes just confirming what sister said. Saudi Arabia has confirmed that Eid is tomorrow (Friday).
Reply

Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 09:19 PM
^ Great mate
Reply

NoName55
10-11-2007, 09:23 PM
get Fatawa on errors in following Saudi moon sighting in Britain, stop following saudis !
Reply

Kittygyal
10-11-2007, 09:24 PM
^ why?
Reply

NoName55
10-11-2007, 09:27 PM
^^ to find out "why" read "Moon Sighting Announcements in Saudi Arabia", a fatwah by Mufti Taqi Uthmani (Pakistan) that UK Muslims should do local moon sighting and not follow Saudis
Reply

NoName55
10-12-2007, 07:30 AM
(Are) Moon Sighting Announcements in Saudi Arabia Valid (for England)?
question:
I am writing this letter to you with regards to the controversy surrounding the sighting of the crescent moon over Saudi Arabia on Friday 18 December 1998 and the subsequent commencement of the month of Ramadan in mosques throughout England. My question is: Can such a sighting be acceptable in the face of astronomical data which suggested that on Friday 18 December 1998 the crescent was invisible due to the Sun, earth and moon lying in one plane? The data also suggested that the earliest possible sighting was on Saturday 19 December 1998.

reply
I have gone through the article of ISNA and with the utmost respect for their sentiment for Muslim unity, I am forced to say that the view expressed in the article (Eid al-Adha on next day of Arafat) is in total disagreement with the teachings of Quran and Sunnah, and with the Shari'ah position recognized throughout the centuries. This is an unprecedented view which has never been adopted by any of the Muslim jurists during the past 1400 years, and it has a number of intrinsic defects and anomalies, some of which are summarized here.

The article admits that the celebration of Eid al-Fitr should be tied to the sighting of the moon in each country and should not be linked with the celebration of Eid al-Fitr in Saudi Arabia. At the same time, however, the article calls for celebration of Eid al-Adha according to the Saudi Calendar regardless of the local dates, which means Eid al-Adha will be celebrated in North America on 8th or 9th of Zul-Hajjah. It is thus clear that the theory proposed in ISNA's article is impractical.

The article has laid much emphasis on the concept of unity of the Muslim Ummah, which no one can deny. At the same time, however, one must appreciate that unity does not mean that the entire Muslim Ummah throughout the world should perform their acts of worship at one and the same time, because it is physically not possible. It is evident that when people in Saudi Arabia are performing their Fajr prayers, those in North America may still have not completed their Isha prayers of the previous day. Similarly, when Muslims in Los Angeles offer their Fajr prayers, those in India and Pakistan are offering their Maghrib or Isha prayer of the same day.

If it is made obligatory on all the Muslims in the world to offer their acts of worship at one and the same time for the sake of unity, such unity can never materialize (because of the time differences). It is, therefore, obvious that offering one's acts of worship at different times do not affect the concept of Muslim Unity.

What does the Muslim unity mean?

It means that all Muslims should treat each other with brotherly sympathy and affection and should not spread disorder and dissention among them. Nor should they invent new ideas foreign to the teachings of Quran and the Sunnah which may lead to division and conflict among Muslims.

It is also astonishing that the article views the celebration of Eid al-Adha on different days as being against the concept of Ummah while in the matter of celebration of Eid ai-Fitr, this concept is dispensed with. If the celebration of Eid al-Fitr on different days does not affect the concept of unity, how can it be said to harm unity in the case of Eid al-Adha.


It is true that Eid al-Adha falls immediately after the day of Arafat in Saudi Arabia, but it is not necessary that the Muslims in every country should follow the same dates in their respective areas. Hajj, no doubt, is tied with a particular place but the celebration of Eid al-Adha is not confined to that place alone. It is celebrated everywhere in the world and cannot be tied to the Saudi calendar.

The article admits that the celebration of Eid al-Adha in other countries was never linked with its celebration in Saudi Arabia throughout the past 14 centuries. This, the author's claim was because of a lack of communication facilities. With vastly improved communication today, they argued that everyone almost anywhere can find out the day of Hajj, and should celebrate Eid al-Adha based on Saudi calendar.
There is a clear admission in this argument that it is not obligatory according to Quran or the Sunnah to celebrate Eid al-Adha according to Saudi calendar. Had this been so, Muslims would have tried their best to find the exact date of Hajj in Saudi Arabia. It is not correct to say that it was not possible in those days for people living outside Saudi Arabia to know the exact date of Hajj, because this date is normally determined on the first night of Zul-Hijjah. There is a nine day period until which is more than sufficient to acquire this information. However, no jurists has ever stressed that such information be collected in order to celebrate Eid al-Adha according to Saudi dates.

Further, if the argument of the article is accepted and it is held that the real intention of Quran and Sunnah was to link the celebration of Eid al-Adha with the Saudi dates, as a mandatory provision for all Muslims in the world, it means that the Shari'ah has stressed a principle which was not acceptable for 1300 years. It is not against the Quranic declaration that Allah does not make a thing mandatory unless it is practical for the human beings.

If the authors argue that the celebration of Eid al-Adha was not linked with the dates in Makkah in the past but it has become a mandatory requirement of the Shari'ah now, then the question arises, who has abrogated the previous principle and on what basis? There is no provision in Quran or the Sunnah which orders the Muslims to celebrate Eid al-Adha according to their local dates up to a particular time and to link it with the dates in Makkah thereafter. Whoever considers this and similar questions arising out of this unprecedented theory advanced in the article can appreciate its fallacy.


Finally, I would like to inform you that the question of sighting the moon for each lunar month including Zul-Hijjah was thoroughly discussed at the annual sessions of the Islamic Fiqh Academy (held in Jordan, October 11-16, 1986) attended by more than a hundred outstanding scholars of Shari'ah. The academy adopted the resolution recommended that all Muslim countries should determine all the lunar months including Zul-Hijjah on the same basis for both Eid al-Fitr as well as Eid al-Adha.
This resolution represents the consensus of Muslim jurists throughout the world. The proposal contained in the ISNA article, however, goes totally against this consensus.

Before parting with the subject, I would like to emphasize that such unprecedented proposals can never advance the cause of Muslim unity. Rather, they may create a new point of disunity and dissention among Muslims. Before venturing such opinions as definite 'Fatwa', these should be discussed at some responsible international forum of contemporary Muslim jurists like the International Islamic Fiqh Academy in Jeddah.

By Mufti Taqi Usmani
fatwah re: eid ul fitr
Thank you for your letter asking me about the issue of sighting of moon at the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr and about the acceptability of evidence despite its being impossible according to the astronomical calculations. In fact the contemporary scholars have different views on this point. I personally believe that if it is certainly proved that the moon is not yet born and its sighting is not at all possible on a particular evening, the evidence of only a few persons should not be taken as a proof of existence of moon at the horizon and the Ramadan or Eid should not be started on that basis alone unless there is evidence of people in overwhelming numbers that they themselves have seen the moon in which case it may be said that there was something wrong in the astronomical calculation. But in the absence of such an evidence, the only evidence of two or some more persons should not be relied upon. This view of mine is based on the ruling given by a large number of jurists that if the Horizon is clear the evidence of two persons is not enough for proving a crescent moon unless it is established by the evidence of a great number of people about whom it is not is not imaginable that they may have connived to give a false evidence. The requirement of such an overwhelming evidence in this case is based on the common sense that if the horizon is clear the moon must have been seen by a large number of people and merely the evidence of two persons is doubtful. By the analogy, if the astronomical calculation proved that new moon cannot be sighted on a particular day the evidence of a few people should not be relied upon.

However, there are some contemporary scholars who totally disregard the astronomical calculations in the matter of sighting the moon and base their view on the famous Hadith of the Holy Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam "Keep fast after seeing it (moon) and give up fasting after seeing it (moon)." Their argument is that the Shariah does not base its findings on the astronomical calculations because it is meant for all the Muslims the majority of whom have no means to know the results of such calculations. Therefore, they say, reliance can be placed only on the evidence of the persons who claim to have seen the moon. This is the view which has found favor with the Saudi authorities who are responsible for declaring the sighting or otherwise of the moon. Although I do not endorse this view, nor do other scholars of many Muslims countries accept it, yet the issue being a matter of Ijtihad, the decision given by Saudi authorities is enforceable in their own jurisdiction. That is why, despite having a different view, we validate the Hajj and Ramadan etc, as announced by the Saudi authorities [for applicability within Saudi Arabia]. The Muslims living in other parts of the world should desirably arrange their own system of sighting the moon, as is done in Pakistan and many other countries, because the system adopted in Saudi Arabia is not based on the stronger view. However, as I mentioned earlier this is not an issue which has been specifically mentioned in the Holy Qur'an or Sunnah in express terms but it is a matter of Ijtihad, therefore, we should not hold that any decision taken on that basis, whether in Saudi Arabia or in any other country, is totally against Shariah and the worship or celebrations held on that basis are invalid. This is my humble opinion regarding this issue and according to me the Muslims living in UK etc. should preferably make their own arrangement for sighting of the moon. However, if the dissension of the Muslims cannot be removed except by declaring the beginning of the months on the basis of the announcement of the Saudi authorities then the adoption of Saudi view is less harmful than inculcating the dissension among the Muslims, particularly, in a non-Muslim country. [Ref: AL-BALAGH].
:w:

more fatawa at UK Moon Sighting Home Page

edit:

An introduction to Mufti Taqi Uthmani (Pakistan) and Sheikh Saleh Ibn Uthaimeen (Saudi Arabia), whose fatawah are included on this page.

"Sighting of Hilal in a country does not mean that all other countries have to follow", fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia). [Suggesting other countries (such as UK/USA) should do local sightings and not follow Saudi Arabia].

"If a solar eclipse occurs after sunset, the next day can not be the 1st of the month", another fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia). [Suggesting that a solar eclipse is the proof of the Birth of the Moon, by the naked eye].

"Saudi Alim Asks Muslims in North America NOT to pray Eid on Day after Arafah", a verbal fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia).[Suggesting Eidul Adha is connecting with the sighting of the moon in other countries and NOT with Hajj in Saudi Arabia].

"Moon Sighting Announcements in Saudi Arabia", a fatwah by Mufti Taqi Uthmani (Pakistan) that UK Muslims should do local moon sighting and not follow Saudi Arabia.

"Element of Place Is Dominant in Eid al Adha", by Islamic Society of North America. [Article by ISNA stating that Eidul Adha should be after the day of Hajj in Saudi Arabia (for the sake of Muslim unity)].

"ISNA's Eid al-Adha Evaluated by A Renowned Scholar", another fatwah by Mufti Taqi Uthmani stating that the ISNA’s proposal is not in accordance with the Shariah (Islamic Law), Eidul Adha should be with the sighting of the moon and not connected with the Hajj in Saudi Arabia.

"Fiqh of Moon Sighting", by Suheil Laher [Analyses Fiqh of Moon Sighting by all four Madhabs and concludes that local sighting is the most strongest view].
Reply

Kittygyal
10-12-2007, 07:31 AM
Salamualikum.

Can a mod/admin kindly close this thread please :)?

Ma'assalama
Reply

NoName55
10-12-2007, 07:35 AM
Note: The above post is made at request of an anoymous brother/sister and is not posted to invite shayukh from google academy to dis our beloved Shaykh Justice Usmani! ok?

Note2: nor was it made so that people throw tantrums at staff for feeling wronged or belittled by me!! and demand closures etc.
Reply

nebula
10-12-2007, 07:35 AM
noo dnt close the eid thread noooooooooooo
Reply

Kittygyal
10-12-2007, 07:39 AM
Originally Posted by nebula
noo dnt close the eid thread noooooooooooo
:sl:

Brother theres no use because an argument will cause which im not up for and im sure other people aren't either, best to close it before hand..
There's quiet a few Eid threads already open. Im sure we can type in them insha'Allaah.

End of the day it's Eid here where im at and where your at..

NoName55... Just simle will ya for once :)?

Ma'assalama
Reply

NoName55
10-12-2007, 07:50 AM
alaikum salaam
NoName55... Just simle will ya for once ?
yes, okay,here you go!
Reply

IrfanM
10-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Following Saudi for Eid is an innovation. 100+ years ago people didnt know what day Saudi would do Eid if they lived 100's of miles away. They would look for the moon. (before the days of worldwide communication)

I feel a forum is a great place to debate (not argue) -

on the moonsighting.com website it states it was impossible for Saudi's to see the moon. Therefore this implies they use a different mechanism to calculate the occurance of Eid.

Here in the UK the moon will not actually be sighted until Saturday.

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.21890

For those doing Eid today (Friday) you can't keep your head buried under the sand. There is nothing wrong with questioning decisions made.



Back to the really important point - Eid Mubarak to all. :sunny:
Reply

bewildred
10-12-2007, 10:03 AM
Hello y'all,

Dont forget "Somoo le ru'yateh wa'fteroo le ru'yateh". Since, the moon hasn't been seen in our neck of the woods, the first day of Chawal will be on Saturday, In'chaAllah.

Eid Mabrook to all those celebrating it today.

S.
Reply

SirZubair
10-12-2007, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by Kittygyal
Salamualikum.

Can a mod/admin kindly close this thread please :)?

Ma'assalama
No no no,.. please mods, keep this thread going. For the love of god, for once, let Haqq over rule this so called bull-unity-crap.

Please, people, explain to me why so many muslims in England ( and from what i have heard, its mostly the Poms who do this, the majority of the world has smartened up ) follow Saudi?

Local Sighting is the way it should be.

NoName55, thank you for speaking your mind on this issue.
Reply

IB-Staff
10-12-2007, 11:32 AM
"Sighting of Hilal in a country does not mean that all other countries have to follow",
fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia). [Suggesting other countries (such as UK/USA) should do local sightings and not follow Saudi Arabia].

"If a solar eclipse occurs after sunset, the next day can not be the 1st of the month",
another fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia). [Suggesting that a solar eclipse is the proof of the Birth of the Moon, by the naked eye].

"Saudi Alim Asks Muslims in North America NOT to pray Eid on Day after Arafah",
a verbal fatwah by Sheikh Ibn Othaimeen (Saudi Arabia).[Suggesting Eidul Adha is connecting with the sighting of the moon in other countries and NOT with Hajj in Saudi Arabia].

"Moon Sighting Announcements in Saudi Arabia",
a fatwah by Mufti Taqi Uthmani (Pakistan) that UK Muslims should do local moon sighting and not follow Saudi Arabia.

"Element of Place Is Dominant in Eid al Adha",
by Islamic Society of North America. [Article by ISNA stating that Eidul Adha should be after the day of Hajj in Saudi Arabia (for the sake of Muslim unity)].

"ISNA's Eid al-Adha Evaluated by A Renowned Scholar",
another fatwah by Mufti Taqi Uthmani stating that the ISNA’s proposal is not in accordance with the Shariah (Islamic Law), Eidul Adha should be with the sighting of the moon and not connected with the Hajj in Saudi Arabia.

"Fiqh of Moon Sighting", by Suheil Laher [Analyses Fiqh of Moon Sighting by all four Madhabs and concludes that local sighting is the most strongest view].

Source
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!