Muslims’ attitude towards non-Muslims.

[wilberhum]

Some one posted this link on another thread.
would like to know what the Muslim Forum Members think of this.

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=137...ing%20churches

Question:
Is it permissible for a Muslim to attend the funeral of a non-Muslim friend if it is in the church, as a sign of respect for the deceased?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for the Muslim to attend the funeral of a kaafir or to enter their churches, even if that is a sign of respect etc, because attending the funeral is a way of showing love and respect, and it is not permissible to show that towards a kaafir, according to the correct view.
Moreover the questioner says, “to attend the funeral of a non-Muslim friend” – but it is not permissible for a Muslim to take a kaafir as a friend, because Allaah has commanded us to regard them as enemies, to shun them and to keep away from them. This does not mean that we should not deal with them or buy and sell or form business partnerships with them. That is one thing, and taking them as friends is another thing. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allaah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the party of Allaah. Verily, it is the party of Allaah that will be the successful”
[al-Mujaadilah 58:22]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not initiate the greeting of salaam with the Jews and Christians, and when you meet them in the street, force them towards the narrowest part of it.” Narrated by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh, 2167 from the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah.


Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan

I am most interested in:
1) because attending the funeral is a way of showing love and respect, and it is not permissible to show that towards a kaafir
2) it is not permissible for a Muslim to take a kaafir as a friend, because Allaah has commanded us to regard them as enemies, to shun them and to keep away from them.

Thanks in advance for your response.

[Woodrow]

THREAD APPROVED

[tomtomsmom]

I am interested in this as well. Can't wait to see the replies to this one......

[Woodrow]

I can only say that we are each responsible for our decisions and who we choose to follow as teachers.

With all respect to the Shaykh I believe there is some confusion in his manner of understanding friendship and respect. I am not certain of the authenticity of the Hadiths he seems to be basing his views on.


I have read quite different views from other shaykhs. I know we can not pick and choose based upon our feelings, but we do have a duty to search for the truth when there seems to be conflicting views from other Scholars and Shaykhs.

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[MustafaMc]

I would have to disagree with this article/ruling. I am the only Muslim in my family and my wife is the only one in hers. I attended the funeral of both of my Christian parents in Baptist churches and, Insha'Allah, I will attend the funeral of other close kin as well. Yes, I loved and respected my parents and I would not be denied paying my last repects to them.

However, the authority for my religion before Allah (swt) is the Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saaws). If someone can quote an ayat or an authentic hadith that directly supports the position of the article then I will reconsider my position.

[Woodrow]

Here is another viewpoint that does seem to be well backed up with the Qur'an and authentic hadith:

Imam Mohamad Joban responds:

Once, when the Prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him, was sitting with his companions, he saw a large group of people carrying a dead body. He (the Prophet, PBUH) stood up out of respect.

When his companions told the Prophet (PBUH) that the dead body was not that of a Muslim, the Prophet (PBUH) replied, “Isn't he a human being, too?”

Humans are Blessed with Respect and Dignity
Allah tells us in the Qur’an [17:70]: “We have honored the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favors, above a great part of our creation.”

Attending the Funerals of non-Muslims is a Form of Piety
Attending the funerals of non-Muslims, especially the funerals of one’s parents, grandparents, and other family members is not haram (prohibited). Rather, it is a form of dawah (spreading Islam) and participation in bir (piety or righteousness), by showing sympathy for the family of the deceased.

Dealing Kindly with non-Muslims is Required in Islam
Allah tells us [Qur’an, 60:8]: “Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loves those who are just.”

Attend Funerals – But Don’t Participate in Religious Ceremonies
Therefore, you can attend the funerals of your non-Muslim relatives. Whether they were atheists, Jews or Christians does not matter, so long as you are able to abstain from participating in any religious ceremonies related to the funeral. For example, when the pastor makes dua (supplications), you should keep silent or step aside.

Source: http://www.ourrisingstar.org/article.php?aid=265&t=A

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Why is it that people like the Shaykh quoted by wilberhum seem to be allowed to promote enmity and bad feeling between humans in the name of Islam?

It's something that can only cause harm, and should be not only disagreed with, but condemned utterly.

Peace

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
I usually disagree with islamqa's answers - my local Imam is much better.

From my knowledge, I cannot comment on point 1 of Wilber's
But, point 2) it is not permissible for a Muslim to take a kaafir as a friend, because Allaah has commanded us to regard them as enemies, to shun them and to keep away from them.

This is incorrect. The ayat the sheik has indirectly refered to actually means protector or wali - not friend. So we are, as muslims, allowed to have non-muslims as friends.

I learnt that off the actual load-islam site. It's freakin awesome and highly recommended.....by me. :D

[ummzayd]

:sl:

Another perfect example of why I do not go to this q-a website for knowledge. I have non-Muslim friends (I am careful about choosing my friends and would not associate with anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, who had a negative effect on my faith); I have attended a non-Muslim funeral; I am also not averse to entering churches, though not for the purposes of worship.

Any Muslim looking for guidance on a particular issue will find one or two (or more) different opinions. It is up to the individual to evaluate the evidence provided, and decide which opinion is correct, bearing in mind that as Muslims we have been instructed by the prophet pbuh to avoid extremism and harshness.

:w:

[tomtomsmom]

Islam-qa is a Salafee site. The majority of Muslims are not Salafee and therefore their fatwas are not binding on us. No offence meant to our Salafee board members!

Oh no! I thought Islamqa.com was a good site to look stuff up. Apparently I was wrong. What is a Salafee site? What is a good q&a site to look things up that are the more generally accepted?

[~Sam~]

I would never lower my Mom and disrespect her funeral because thats the least i can get. The love of the funeral is a blessing for me to take my few minutes out for my Mom, it would be such a sad affect on me if i had to believe in this article then again i don't belive in it as it won't be a good thing for me.

[ummzayd]

Oh no! I thought Islamqa.com was a good site to look stuff up. Apparently I was wrong. What is a Salafee site? What is a good q&a site to look things up that are the more generally accepted?

Hi Tomtomsmom, I like this site:

www.understanding-islam.com

I could spend hours on there, if only I had the time....

peace

[ummzayd]

A question to all of the Muslim converts. When you were about to convert, did the bigotry ever concern you? Do you think Muslims are bigots?

hey listen, (some) Christians are bigots, (some) Jews are bigots, (some) Hindus are bigots, (some) Muslims are bigots....as a revert I studied the religion of Islam and found beauty and truth, mercy, love, tolerance. The bigotry of some Muslims concerns me, of course. But I have found much more love and sincerity and compassion from Muslims than bigotry. I hope that answers your question.

peace

[~Sam~]

I have nothing against Non-Muslims as i wasn't a Muslim myself until i have reverted to Islam. I wouldn't say i pick myself up down from the drain and then go around saying 'i hate Non-Muslims' thats pathetic. I would rather go back to Christianty than thinking or hating a religion.

[NYCmuslim]

So you don't think a Muslim should treat others the way they wouldn't wanna be treated? So you think people posting jokes about people of other religions and then not allowing Muslim jokes on this site are not really Muslims and they are going to hell because their bigotry towards people of other religions?

By the way, if you wanted to see the beauty, you should have tried Sikhism...:)

Peace.

If a Muslim on this board makes jokes on another religion with the intention of causing disruption then that individual has serious problems and I pray that Allah gives him/her some guidance. As for this person going to hell, only Allah will be the judge of that.

As Muslims we should respect the religion of other people. We may not agree with it but we shouldn't be disrespectful. If we must criticize, then we have to do so in a respectful manner with no slandering and insults.

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful exhortation; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (16:125)

As for my opinion of the original topic, I think the Sheik is being very extreme in his view. As promoters of peace and love we should show respect for our non-muslims friends, dead or alive. We can take non-muslims for friends but not as protectors from our enemies. Allah is my only Protector from evil.

Peace be unto you all.

:w:

[Pk_#2]

Here is another viewpoint that does seem to be well backed up with the Qur'an and authentic hadith:



Source: http://www.ourrisingstar.org/article.php?aid=265&t=A

JazakAllah khair

:-\ @ First hadith, i really do feel that it was taken out of context? nah? i dunno.

[InToTheRain]

Here is another viewpoint that does seem to be well backed up with the Qur'an and authentic hadith:



Source: http://www.ourrisingstar.org/article.php?aid=265&t=A

JAZAK ALLAH :thumbs_up

Greetings,

Why is it that people like the Shaykh quoted by wilberhum seem to be allowed to promote enmity and bad feeling between humans in the name of Islam?

It's something that can only cause harm, and should be not only disagreed with, but condemned utterly.

Peace

Agreed. Don't want to open Pandora's box here, but the same could be said for cetain cartoonists in Denmark if you know what I am saying.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hey wilberhum dont take islamqa as the main concensus for all the muslims, just had to say that :)

[Inquisitive]

Check out this link, the answer the mufti gave on taking non-muslims as friends is worth reading. [URL="http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543362&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar"]

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

A question to all of the Muslim converts. When you were about to convert, did the bigotry ever concern you? Do you think Muslims are bigots?

So you don't think a Muslim should treat others the way they wouldn't wanna be treated? So you think people posting jokes about people of other religions and then not allowing Muslim jokes on this site are not really Muslims and they are going to hell because their bigotry towards people of other religions?

By the way, if you wanted to see the beauty, you should have tried Sikhism...:)

Thank you so very much for high-jacking this thread, jack-ass. The fact that you haven't introduced yourself indicates to me, you are indeed a troll and so shall be banned. Adios.

[Karina]

Oh dear.

Personal opinion, ok, if anyone is interested!

I am increasingly perplexed by this kind of thing. If we were looking at someone in my line of thinking, (and I'm not off on an pro-Angnosticism ramble, well ok I might be a little!) but i could definitely say that I would most definitely attend, if invited, a funeral in any culture, birthday, Christening, Bar Mitzvah, a family Eid celebration, a Sikh wedding, a Diwali celebration, a Buddhist ceremony, a Zulu ritual, if invited by a friend or aquaintance!! In fact, all but two of the above I have been privileged & honoured to be present at.

I know, I know, I may seem naive to some but surely, in this vast, diverse, varied, complex world, I am one person (amongst what seems to be dwindling numbers) who could possibly... maybe.... be classed as *ahem* curious to learn more and be accepting of, other religions and cultures.

SURELY... Surely.... this is a good thing? :exhausted
Occaisionally here, I get the vaguest impression that this is not a good thing.

Has anyone got any comments on this?

[Fishman]

By the way, if you wanted to see the beauty, you should have tried Sikhism...:)

:sl:
From my experiences Sikhs are equally as good at being bigots as the followers of every other religion (including atheists) are. A good Sikh is not a bigot, but neither is a good Muslim or a good Christian or a good anybody.

All pro-bigotry religions (NOI, Satanism etc.) are rather small because nobody likes their values.
:w:

[snakelegs]

Check out this link, the answer the mufti gave on taking non-muslims as friends is worth reading. [URL="http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543362&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar"]

i like
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...hariah/LSEZone
a whole lot better than islamqa.

[Woodrow]

What I would like to know if it's Islamic to treat others the same you wouldn't wanna be treated yourself. I would like an answer from someone learned like Woodrow...

I am very far from being learned. I spent 65 of my years as a non-Muslim and often lived as a Dhimmi in Muslim countries. On a personal experience I had always been treated very fairly and had many Muslim friends that did come to my aid during some very difficult times.

[islamic]

I am most interested in:
1) because attending the funeral is a way of showing love and respect, and it is not permissible to show that towards a kaafir
2) it is not permissible for a Muslim to take a kaafir as a friend, because Allaah has commanded us to regard them as enemies, to shun them and to keep away from them.

Thanks in advance for your response.

Let me try to say something here.
Quran should be read and understood as a whole. You can not jump and make conclusions quoting 1 verse from the Quran and acting like you found America! Could you do that wilberhum? I think you try to do that, as Ali Sina and his friends are trying to do with the misquote from the Quran the verse where it says: "wherever you find kaafir, kill him". Every learned man will continue reading because the next verse has the answer. Anyway, some people are trying to act like stupid ... but they are learned.
Now, for this kind of people we should not be friends with, this kaafir is not a friend of mine and i think is not a friend of any good Muslim. Kaafir who misquote the Quran, attack Islam, attack prophet Muhammad, and attack the glory of Allah.
But, also Allah in the Quran is talking about different non-muslims, people that are good ... because among them it says .. you will find people that forbid what is bad and do what is good. The commentary of Yusuf Ali says, those people are muslims at heart, meaning they have muslim characteristics.
With this people we should be nice, toward this non-muslims we should be nice.
Let me ask you something, if your father is Satanist and in satanic rituals he has funeral, will you in act of respect attend that funeral? If someone swear your mother and if he dies, will you in act of respect attend his funeral? will you show respect for those kind of people?

I hope i answered your question and cleared your miss-understanding about Islam!

[wilberhum]

Let me try to say something here.
Quran should be read and understood as a whole. You can not jump and make conclusions quoting 1 verse from the Quran and acting like you found America! Could you do that wilberhum?

I made no conclusion. I quoted a source that a Abu Musab respected.
The conclusion was that of Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan, not mine.

I think you try to do that, as Ali Sina and his friends are trying to do with the misquote from the Quran the verse where it says: "wherever you find kaafir, kill him". Every learned man will continue reading because the next verse has the answer. Anyway, some people are trying to act like stupid ... but they are learned.

So I guess that you don’t consider Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan a “learned man”.
So who do you consider a “learned man” and what source do you use to determine who is learned and who is not?

Now, for this kind of people we should not be friends with, this kaafir is not a friend of mine and i think is not a friend of any good Muslim. Kaafir who misquote the Quran, attack Islam, attack prophet Muhammad, and attack the glory of Allah.

So not only do you consider Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan unlearned, you also consider him a Kaafir.
I thought calling a Muslim a non-Muslim was as low as you can get and it is considered back bighting at its worst.

But, also Allah in the Quran is talking about different non-muslims, people that are good ... because among them it says .. you will find people that forbid what is bad and do what is good. The commentary of Yusuf Ali says, those people are muslims at heart, meaning they have muslim characteristics.
With this people we should be nice, toward this non-muslims we should be nice.

Let me ask you something, if your father is Satanist and in satanic rituals he has funeral, will you in act of respect attend that funeral?

First of all, my father was a Catholic and the finest man I have ever known. :grumbling
Secondly, I don’t play stupid, “What If” games that have nothing to do with reality.

If someone swear your mother and if he dies, will you in act of respect attend his funeral?

No, I wouldn’t go to the funeral.

will you show respect for those kind of people?

We are not talking about showing respect for those that we disrespect. We are talking about showing respect for those we respect.
This is getting as stupid as talking about “women raped by someone in the street” when the topic is “Attending Places of Worship of Other Faiths”.

I hope i answered your question and cleared your miss-understanding about Islam!

Again, my miss-understanding?
You need to clear up Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan understanding.

I just find it really bazaar being chastised for pointing out what a Muslim posted. :?

As for myself, when I read it, my first thought, was that I was on an anti-Islamic hate sight, which used miss-quotations to create Islamophobia.
I had to check twice before I was convinced I was truly on an Islamic sight.

Well now that I have that off my chest, I hope to respond to the other posts.
But I must say that I was pleased with most all the posts from the Muslims here.

Thank you.
Wilber

[جوري]

I am not a scholar.. but look to prophet Mohammed's own behavior for leadership

Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his companions remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim, Sunan An-Nasâ'î)

:w:

[islamic]

Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan from where you got the source I'm sure he was talking about that kind of non-muslims, like you and Ali Sina, meaning .. those who want to attack Islam and everything related to Islam. So, he is considering you kaafir, he is talking for someone like you, so I agree with him about people like you. I agree with him.
So, no friendship with them, no respect for them, no attending their funeral, and I will go advanced and say: "for sure I will make him shorter for one head" (this is my opinion).
Now, Allah we love most, more from anything .. and we can not tolerate and show respect for someone who says the most monstrous thing about him, like you will not respect the one who will swear your mother.
Read you tomorrow, don't hurry with the answer :-)

[islamic]

I am not a scholar.. but look to prophet Mohammed's own behavior for leadership

Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his companions remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim, Sunan An-Nasâ'î)

:w:

sister, he didn't attend the funeral, he didn't went to synagogue, he didn't went to jewish cemetery, did he?
he STOOD up, just that. !

[islamic]

This is getting as stupid as talking about “women raped by someone in the street” when the topic is “Attending Places of Worship of Other Faiths”.

you are right, the topic is Muslims’ attitude towards non-Muslims and you are talking about Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan. :confused:
You are right , that is really stupid!

[جوري]

sister, he didn't attend the funeral, he didn't went to synagogue, he didn't went to jewish cemetery, did he?
he STOOD up, just that. !

:sl:
Thought the Question was in regard to respect not participating in their religious rituals? Either way it is human to grief for loved ones no matter who they are and what they did or didn't do.. Did prophet Mohammed P attend the funeral of his uncle?
The one whom he loved very much, the one who died a kaffir?

:w:

[islamic]

Did prophet Mohammed P attend the funeral of his uncle?
:w:

he is condemned in the Quran, that is a sure about him. This is another miracle of the Quran, Allah says HE WILL NEVER BECAME MUSLIM and he never did. Abu Lehab could just go and tell to the others, here .. i became muslim and disprove the Quran and say that the Quran is lie .. but he didn't. WHY? because whatever ALlah had said, that is true.
Did the prophet attended his funeral, I DON'T KNOW but according to my opinion and my logic, he didn't! He loved Allah more from his uncle.

[جوري]

I wasn't talking about abu lahab!

[islamic]

I wasn't talking about abu lahab!

wasn't he the uncle of the prophet who was kafir? :-) I don't know for other uncles!

[جوري]

wasn't he the uncle of the prophet who was kafir? :-) I don't know for other uncles!

[...] Narrated Al-Musaiyab:
When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then the following Verse was revealed:--

"It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113)

The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!) Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will ......." (28.56) Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 223


:w:

[islamic]

"It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113)

sister, from this EVERYTHING IS CLEAR.

[جوري]

what does forgivness have to do with paying respect?

[islamic]

Read the ayah good, and pay attention to the context of the situation and ayah revealing.

[جوري]

what will reading it good reveal in your book?

[Woodrow]

respect and dignity do not equate to forgiveness nor to practice of another's beliefs. there are just simple and ample statements throughout the Qur'an and hadith that we are to treat all people fairly and part of fairness requires fair respect. Attending a funeral does not entail participating in the worship. My second wife was Native American. Many people attended her funeral, most did not even understand it was a funeral. None would have agreed with her religious belief, but they paid respect to her, not worship nor prayed for her. So it with us as Muslims we can pay respect as long as it does not include prayer or worship.

[Inquisitive]

I came across a fatwa that was given on going to the funeral of a non muslim. I find the answer to be very reasonable and accurate. Take the time to read it. Here is the link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544150&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

[islamic]

[...] Narrated Al-Musaiyab:
When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then the following Verse was revealed:--

"It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113)

The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!) Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will ......." (28.56) Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 223


:w:

sister, you give a hadith and ayah from the Quran and I think you didn't understood it good. I told you to

Read the ayah good, and pay attention to the context of the situation and ayah revealing.

but again i think you didn't understand.

Look, the prophet went there with hope that this Abu Talib will leave the religion that he had, and accept Islam. The prophet went there with intention to save this person from Hell fire. But, he didn't want to turn from that religion of Abdul Muttalib and he died in that religion.
The prophet didn't went in this Abu Talib funeral as we can see from the hadith.

[KAding]

Excellent thread with some useful links!

The lesson here is you really can't judge a whole religion based on one website, let alone one ruling.

[ummzayd]

sister, you give a hadith and ayah from the Quran and I think you didn't understood it good. I told you to but again i think you didn't understand.

Look, the prophet went there with hope that this Abu Talib will leave the religion that he had, and accept Islam. The prophet went there with intention to save this person from Hell fire. But, he didn't want to turn from that religion of Abdul Muttalib and he died in that religion.
The prophet didn't went in this Abu Talib funeral as we can see from the hadith.

:sl:

Abu Talib was the beloved uncle of Rasoolullah (pbuh), he was like a father to him. which hadith have you found that says Rasoolullah didn't go to the funeral?

:w:

[tomtomsmom]

Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan from where you got the source I'm sure he was talking about that kind of non-muslims, like you and Ali Sina, meaning .. those who want to attack Islam and everything related to Islam. So, he is considering you kaafir, he is talking for someone like you, so I agree with him about people like you. I agree with him.
So, no friendship with them, no respect for them, no attending their funeral, and I will go advanced and say: "for sure I will make him shorter for one head" (this is my opinion).
Now, Allah we love most, more from anything .. and we can not tolerate and show respect for someone who says the most monstrous thing about him, like you will not respect the one who will swear your mother.
Read you tomorrow, don't hurry with the answer :-)

Judgmental much????? I must say, I have a real problem with your posts. It is not your place to judge and say so and so is a kaafir! You have no idea what is in another persons heart. That is Gods job to judge. Not yours or anyone else who wants to call someone a kaafir!!!!!!!

[seeker_of_ilm]

:sl:

I came across this Fatwaa on the same site:-

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2278&ln=eng

So as you can see, this scholar, holds a different opinion in regards to this matter.

:w:

[Karina]

:sl:

I came across this Fatwaa on the same site:-

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2278&ln=eng

So as you can see, this scholar, holds a different opinion in regards to this matter.

:w:

I don't understand - if someone went to scholar 1 (Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan) for advice, he will get the answer which seems to be the subject of much debate.

However, if that person went to the scholar mentioned above (Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid) then they would get a different answer.

However:

Question:
Can a Muslim visit a sick kaafir and attend his funeral?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah was asked about Muslim people who have Christian neighbours – is it permissible for a Muslim to visit a Christian if he gets sick, or to attend his funeral if he dies? Is there any sin on a Muslim who does these things, or not?

He replied:

Praise be to Allaah the Lord of the Worlds. He should not attend his funeral, but visiting him when he is sick is fine, because this may serve an interest, namely opening his heart to Islam. But then if he dies as a kaafir, he will deserve Hell, hence the prayers should not be offered for him. And Allaah knows best.



Al-Fataawa al-Kubra, 3/6.

Source: http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=127...afir%20funeral

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

Following from seeker_of_ilm's post, it shows that if you don't see the logic or agree with one answer on a website, it doesn't mean that the whole website is void and useless. It has nothing to do with "Salafism" or 'Salafees".

Islamqa is actually quite a comprehensive and reliable site as it quotes from scholars adhering to the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), and it uses authentic sources based on the Qu'ran and Sunnah, and other reliable contemporary scholarly opinions. References are provided where appropriate in the responses. Many other sites do not do this and many of them use answers from doubtful sources.

It could be that it comes down to context, but whatever is the case, the point to bear in mind is not to be so quick to judge others and assert our own opinions, especially over those who have more knowledge than we have. When something doesn't agree with our logic or seems to go against our personal opinions, we should investigate and seek the answer patiently before rushing to pass verdicts on someone else's referenced answer or disregarding their statements which could turn out to be true.

Regarding the actual issue at hand, I am quite sure it has been discussed elsewhere. Perhaps wilberhum could mention the thread which he got it from? Nevertheless, there are many aspects of Islam to demonstrate its respect for all human life and the kindness it teaches towards non-Muslims.

[جوري]

:sl: ^^^
Jazka Allah for that.. the sad thing that some Muslims don't understand with that linear style thinking.. is that 'ad'deen mo3amala' religion is also about relations-- if it were about simply an admonition, someone might kindly then point me as to why the prophet sala Allah 3lyhi waslaam, went to visit his Jewish Neighbor, yes, the same neighbor that would leave excrements by his door every morning, just to make sure he wasn't ill?
After all he was a kaffir and we are not to be friends with kuffar, or pay them respect?..



:w:

[Muhammad]

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

Sometimes scholars differ in their opinions on certain matters. A person should accept that which appears to have the strongest evidence. But it should not be used as a source of division and confusion - rather people should remain silent when they don't know something and allow those who have knowledge to speak, otherwise they will only increase the confusion.

[Seeker_of_truth]

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz. I also heard we are suppose to show enemity towards the kaffirs but depends on the situations.

[Woodrow]

I don't understand - if someone went to scholar 1 (Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan) for advice, he will get the answer which seems to be the subject of much debate.

However, if that person went to the scholar mentioned above (Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid) then they would get a different answer.

However:


Source: http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=127...afir%20funeral

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

Quite simply, while todays scholars may be very highly educated and do know the Qur'an and the sunnah and the Hadith. they are not prophets and can only speak from their own views. Personal opinions do become part of their words.

The fault is not with Islam, the fault is with us. another problem is often a scholar will be speaking for the people in his own culture and immediate neighborhood. Anyone of these answers can be correct depending on the rest of the story and the particular circumstances. For these reasons it is best not to view any online scholar as being infallible or speaking for all Muslims in all places at all times. Inline scholars are a very valuable resource for find general concerns, but as a rule a local Scholar or Imam is the best resource for an individual.

If you do use the online resources, do not be satisfied with the first you read, read as many opinions as you can and do your best to evaluate each. Look not just for who you agree with, check out their sources of information.

Right now the preponderance of evidence is that it is not haram to attend a non-Muslim funeral, provided it is not done as a religious function. In other words it is haram to attend if our intent is to pray. If our intent is to simply visit a person for a final time, being no different than visiting them while they were alive, the funeral should pose no problem.

Now in some parts of the world it can very well be true that the non-Muslim community is an avid enemy of Islam and in that situation it would probably be haram to go to one of their funeral's as that would be giving comfort to the enemy.

[Karina]

Sometimes scholars differ in their opinions on certain matters. A person should accept that which appears to have the strongest evidence. But it should not be used as a source of division and confusion - rather people should remain silent when they don't know something and allow those who have knowledge to speak, otherwise they will only increase the confusion.

I can see where you're coming from, but surely some Muslims view a single scholar's reply on such a reputable website as being the only answer they need??

And in the case of the matter being discussed, there really is a 50/50 split in the possible answers - yes, it is permissable, or no it is not.... ?

And we see above three responses, each differing.

Do you mean that the person with the question would need to take their own initiative on whether or not the scholar is giving them substantial evidence? I thought the scholar was to be trusted and respected, and surely if they are to be questioned, this is not exactly trust and respect?

Sorry for rambling on, I just don't understand that's all....

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz. I also heard we are suppose to show enemity towards the kaffirs but depends on the situations.

the prophet hardly ever showed enmity towards the kafirs, rather he was extremely tolerant, even to the prisoner of wars , the worst of kafirs abu jahl, even to these he was tolerant!


i hope that sheds some light on that misconception :)

[Trumble]

I genuinely don't understand the need to rely on 'scholars' in such matters. As with scholars in any other field they are prone to error, bias, and disagreement with each other.

Surely those who do believe in God also believe He gave them the Qur'an (or Bible) to read and a mind of their own to reason with? Or you could always just 'ask' through prayer and do what you think God tells you?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Surely those who do believe in God also believe He gave them the Qur'an (or Bible) to read and a mind of their own to reason with?

greetings trumble i hope you are well :).

Yes we can read the Quran and get guidance from it, but for the ambiguous bits of the quran we need a scholar, surely that makes sense? :)

Or you could always just 'ask' through prayer and do what you think God tells you?

well God tells us to do it all through Quran and hadith, the guidance we can ask for, but divine inspiration ended with Muhammad sallallahi alaihi wasallaam, however divine guidance carries on til the end :)

[wilberhum]

To all:
Thank you for all your responses. The almost universal disagreement of the view from the Shaykh is quite gratifying. Below I have tried to respond to each and everyone who participated in the discussion.
Again, I do want to thank you all.
Peace Wilber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodrow,
As always, wisdom. No condemnation. Your alternate reference seems like what a reasonable and pious interpretation.

MustafaMc,
It’s good to see that you don’t agree. I like the fact that you have an open mind. In my opinion, we all have a concenious(SP). It will tell us what is right and wrong. Isn’t doing what is right, how we should live?

Aamirsaab,
I was disappointed that you seem to “lack knowledge” to comment on if it is “permissible to show that towards a kaafir”. But thank you for your response on #2.
Ummzayd
You have good advice for all of us. Thank you.

~Sam~
I’m with you. I would have o show the love and respect for my mother.

NYCmuslim
I agree. I think the Sheik is being very extreme in his view and we should show respect to everyone who deserves it, as not all do.

Umma Wasat
Thanks for your comment.

IbnAbdulHakim
Thanks for the advice. Be assured I don’t take anything as a “main concensus for all the muslims”. Muslims are far too diverse a group to have many “main consensus”.

Inquisitive
Another reasonable source, thank you.

Karina
As you, I also think it is a privilege& honor to be present at as a guest at anyone’s celebration.
Different answers to the same question are truly confusion. I guess you will always have that kind of problem when there is not “One Final” source of interpretation.

Snake,
Thanks for another source.

PA,
A reasonable approach. Thanks.
Also, thinks for attending to the “Mental” child.

KAding
Good advice.

Tomtomsmom
I too have a problem with islamic’s posts. But then I have a problem with bigots.

seeker_of_ilm
Another source of wisdom, thank you.

Muhammad
Some words of wisdom and some I agree with.
The thread that originally presented the link was “Attending Places of Worship of Other Faiths” #50.

Trumble
I agree.

Again, thanks, Wilber

[Trumble]

greetings trumble i hope you are well :).

Yes we can read the Quran and get guidance from it, but for the ambiguous bits of the quran we need a scholar, surely that makes sense? :)

Yes, and no. I can accept that, say, regarding particular points of Sharia law but when it comes to moral issues I would have thought the direct Word of God, combined with the reasoned interpretation of the person directly concerned, is more likely to come up with the 'right' answer. That would be the approach most Christians in my experience would take, and although I am neither muslim or Christian that seems much more suggestive of a 'living', relevant God.

There's also the additional point that, if the Qur'an is the direct word of God, and the reader is both devout and acceptably intelligent, should there really be anything (important) that is 'ambiguous'? What were muslims supposed to do when no scholar was around?

[Woodrow]

:sl:

I apologize for the massive deletions. we had gone way far astray from the original topic and this thread has become a very poor argument and an even worse representation of us as Muslims. we have not been behaving very Islamic for the past few pages. Let us remember we as Muslims do represent Islam to those who do not believe as we do. Let us keep arguments of fiqh and fahrd in their proper places and only answer in a manner we can verify with fact.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz.

No, it uses fatwas from different scholars, including shaykh 'Uthaymeen, Al-Albaani, Ibn Taymiyyah and others, may Allaah have mercy upon them all.

Greetings Trumble,

I genuinely don't understand the need to rely on 'scholars' in such matters. As with scholars in any other field they are prone to error, bias, and disagreement with each other.

Scholars may not be infallible but they nevertheless have a great status in Islam. Allaah, Exalted is He, has praised and raised their status greatly, and commanded that we refer to them if we do not know something pertaining to our religion. And that is because Islam is based upon firm foundations, not the personal opinions and thoughts of each individual. Please see the response to Karina's comment for a bit more information.

Do you mean that the person with the question would need to take their own initiative on whether or not the scholar is giving them substantial evidence? I thought the scholar was to be trusted and respected, and surely if they are to be questioned, this is not exactly trust and respect?

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination” [al-Nisa’ 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

But if the Muslim does not have sufficient knowledge to enable him to decide which of the scholarly opinions is more likely to be correct, then he should ask the people of knowledge whose knowledge and religious commitment he trusts and then follow the advice or fatwas they give. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:43]

If their opinions differ, then he should follow the one who is most trustworthy and most knowledgeable. This is like when a person falls sick and he looks for the most trustworthy and knowledgeable doctor so that he can go to him, because he is most likely to give him the right treatment than anyone else. It is more important to be on the safe side in religious matters than in worldly ones.

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.

Rather he has to be on the safe side when it comes to his religion, and ask the scholars who have the most knowledge and are most fearing of Allaah.

Regards.

[Malaikah]

Surely those who do believe in God also believe He gave them the Qur'an (or Bible) to read and a mind of their own to reason with? Or you could always just 'ask' through prayer and do what you think God tells you?

Well, of course we could do that, but first we would also need to read ALL the hadiths as well (thousands of them), memorise most of them, learn all the principles behind deriving rulings etc..... in other words, we would have to become scholars ourselves.

In short- we are not qualified to come up with rulings.

We don't believe in doing nothing but asking for God for guidance. We do our best, put in the effort, and then rely on God. We don't just sit back and expect God to do all the work for us.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl: and Greetings,

Following from seeker_of_ilm's post, it shows that if you don't see the logic or agree with one answer on a website, it doesn't mean that the whole website is void and useless. It has nothing to do with "Salafism" or 'Salafees".

Islamqa is actually quite a comprehensive and reliable site as it quotes from scholars adhering to the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), and it uses authentic sources based on the Qu'ran and Sunnah, and other reliable contemporary scholarly opinions. References are provided where appropriate in the responses. Many other sites do not do this and many of them use answers from doubtful sources.

It could be that it comes down to context, but whatever is the case, the point to bear in mind is not to be so quick to judge others and assert our own opinions, especially over those who have more knowledge than we have. When something doesn't agree with our logic or seems to go against our personal opinions, we should investigate and seek the answer patiently before rushing to pass verdicts on someone else's referenced answer or disregarding their statements which could turn out to be true.

Regarding the actual issue at hand, I am quite sure it has been discussed elsewhere. Perhaps wilberhum could mention the thread which he got it from? Nevertheless, there are many aspects of Islam to demonstrate its respect for all human life and the kindness it teaches towards non-Muslims.

:sl:
jazakallahu khair. thank you, thank you, thank you.
:sl:

[Pygoscelis]

I've always thought that if there was a God/Goddess/Gods then a book written thousands of years ago would be a very unlikely means of communicaiton.

Why would an all powerful God not simply have you know what it wants you to know? The apparent need for the middleman book or preacher just smells fishy to me.

[InToTheRain]

Why would an all powerful God not simply have you know what it wants you to know? The apparent need for the middleman book or preacher just smells fishy to me.

Because that would completely destroy the ability to choose between right and wrong therefore not having any free will. If God wanted he could force us to worship Him and he can't be blamed for we owe All to him. However the middle man is perfect for us to practice our free will as we are not forced to submit.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Because that would completely destroy the ability to choose between right and wrong therefore not having any free will. If God wanted he could force us to worship Him and he can't be blamed for we owe All to him. However the middle man is perfect for us to practice our free will as we are not forced to submit.

And I guess you'll find some circuitous way to explain how what you've said doesn't contradict the words of the Qur'an here:

And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Then Allah lets go astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (Qur'an 14:4)

Peace

[InToTheRain]

Greetings,


And I guess you'll find some circuitous way to explain how what you've said doesn't contradict the words of the Qur'an here:



Peace

Interesting question, BUT does guiding some one or leaving them their own demise equate to forcing them to submit or Forcing them to reject?

peace

[Seeker_of_truth]

No, it uses fatwas from different scholars, including shaykh 'Uthaymeen, Al-Albaani, Ibn Taymiyyah and others, may Allaah have mercy upon them all.

Yes, thats what I mean they use Authentic scholars dont they?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Interesting question, BUT does guiding some one or leaving them their own demise equate to forcing them to submit or Forcing them to reject?

peace

It might do - it depends on how you see god. From my point of view, god is a fiction created by humans, so people can claim whatever they like about god, and, as long as it doesn't contradict religious texts, there's nothing anyone can do to prove them wrong.

If Allah let someone go astray, is there any chance that they can find "the right path"? If Allah (who is 'the Almighty', we are told) is against you finding Islam, what chance do you have?

Peace

[InToTheRain]

Greetings,

what chance do you have?

Peace

You have a chance and thats what counts, it depends on you.

peace

[czgibson]

Greetings,

You have a chance and thats what counts, it depends on you.

peace

In what way do you have a chance of following the way of Allah if he has willed that you be led astray?

Peace

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


In what way do you have a chance of following the way of Allah if he has willed that you be led astray?

Peace

Peace,

We are having a problem with semantics here. Allaah(swt) does not will him away from Islam. It is through his will they have free choice. It is through His will they can either choose or deny Islam. So it is through the will of Allaah(swt) we can do what we do. He does not makes us do it, it is his will we have the ability

[Jayda]

hola,

while i feel a little bit put down at the thought muslims might not be allowed to befriend me, given the sheiks position (and i see almost nobody here agrees with him)... i think it is important to just accept that is what they believe and understand that if their religion requires this we should not try to coerce them with judgmental or hyperbolic statements about their beliefs. there are lots of things muslims believe, like jihad for instance, that people blow out of purportion and demand that they stop believing in it since it is not 'tolerant,' thus holding them to secular standards... i don't think that is fair at all and places muslims in a really bad spot.

que Dios te bendiga

[Talha777]

there are lots of things muslims believe, like jihad for instance, that people blow out of purportion and demand that they stop believing in it since it is not 'tolerant,' thus holding them to secular standards... i don't think that is fair at all and places muslims in a really bad spot.

Precisely. If the West espouses freedom of religion, it must also give this freedom to Muslim to believe and follow their religion. Therefore all these government programs to try to manipulate Muslim beliefs and religious education, especially regarding jihad, should be regarded by all citizens of the west as an assault on this fundamental right to freedom of religion. Western governments should have no right to try to force their version of Islam on Muslims, they should rather remain completely aloof from all religious affairs of the Muslims.

[Jayda]

Precisely. If the West espouses freedom of religion, it must also give this freedom to Muslim to believe and follow their religion. Therefore all these government programs to try to manipulate Muslim beliefs and religious education, especially regarding jihad, should be regarded by all citizens of the west as an assault on this fundamental right to freedom of religion. Western governments should have no right to try to force their version of Islam on Muslims, they should rather remain completely aloof from all religious affairs of the Muslims.

gracias... but i was not referring to politics, i just meant general perceptions. i don't talk about politics very much, i think etiquette is more important :)