Surat An-Nasr, Non-Muslims What Do you think

[SATalha]

I just want to pose a question to our non-Muslim friends about this Verse in the Quran:

"When there comes the help of Allah (to you, O Muhammed against your enemies) and the conquest (of Makkah)

And you see that the people that the people enter Allahs religion (Islam) in crowds.

So glorify the praises of your Lord and ask His forgiveness. Varily, He is the One who ever accepts the repentance and Who Forgives."

Surat An-Nasr (The Help)


What do you think of this Verse in relation to today?

Are people comming to the Religion of Allah (Islam) in crowds?

Why do you think that there is this attraction to Islam?

It would help me greatly if you can answer these Questions please.

Salaam

[guyabano]

There is no more, no less attraction to Islam, than all the centuries ago. I prefer to use the word 'Religion Shifting'. Still, the reason why Islam is so fast growing nowadays is the birth rate in Africa.
Life in industrialized west countries became so expensive, that both life-partners MUST work in order to be able to finance a house. On the other side, places for kindergardens get less and less, so people prefer not to have children ergo no important birth growth.
Now, since China is growing so fast actually to become a new world power, it might be, that in 100 years, people will go towards buddishm, Taoism, or whatever. It has always been like that, and it will always be.

[SATalha]

There is no more, no less attraction to Islam, than all the centuries ago. I prefer to use the word 'Religion Shifting'. Still, the reason why Islam is so fast growing nowadays is the birth rate in Africa.
Life in industrialized west countries became so expensive, that both life-partners MUST work in order to be able to finance a house. On the other side, places for kindergardens get less and less, so people prefer not to have children ergo no important birth growth.
Now, since China is growing so fast actually to become a new world power, it might be, that in 100 years, people will go towards buddishm, Taoism, or whatever. It has always been like that, and it will always be.

religion shifting you say? Why hasnt Islam been shifted with something else? Do you not think that the attraction has increased. Especialy in the west. And what about the amount of people that are reverting in the West? this is a modernised part of the globe aint it? Cant blame birth rate there can you.

[Abu Zakariya]

This chapter in the Qur'an is actually a reference to the death of the Prophet (sall Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

This was revealed to him when the Arabs started converting to Islam and it was also informing him of his death that was soon to come. And to put the last verse into practice, he used to increase in his glorification of God and seeking His forgiveness. One example is, and this is recommended for every Muslim to do as well, he used to say this in ruku' and sujud (this is said after Subhana Rabbiyal Adhim and Subhana Rabbiyal A'laa respectively):

Subhanak Allahumma Rabbana wabihamdik. Allahumaghfirli.

You are Glorified (Perfect and far removed from any faults), oh God. Our Lord, to You is all Perfect Praise and Thanks. Oh God, forgive me.

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[Fishman]

religion shifting you say? Why hasnt Islam been shifted with something else? Do you not think that the attraction has increased. Especialy in the west. And what about the amount of people that are reverting in the West? this is a modernised part of the globe aint it? Cant blame birth rate there can you.

:sl:
I don't actually think that the conversions in the west will have a major impact on demography. They probably are not any more common than conversions to Bhuddism and other eastern religions which are popular in the west, and in the near-future I think that the make-up of western Islam will remain mainly composed of the decendants of immigrants.
On the other hand, conversions to Islam are a major demographic force in the African-American community. Unfortunately racist cults such as NOI soak up most of these conversions.
:w:

[abu abdurrahman]

Now, since China is growing so fast actually to become a new world power, it might be, that in 100 years, people will go towards buddishm, Taoism, or whatever. It has always been like that, and it will always be.

Or maybe they will come towards Islaam?! May Allah guide them and you. Seeing as China is growing so fast and a recent survey (Shanghai University) shows that there are an estimated 300 Million Muslims in China.

[guyabano]

religion shifting you say? Why hasnt Islam been shifted with something else? Do you not think that the attraction has increased. Especialy in the west. And what about the amount of people that are reverting in the West? this is a modernised part of the globe aint it? Cant blame birth rate there can you.

I'm not blaming birth rate, I just say, you cannot really proof which religion is fast growing, and which ones not. It's status quo, and this topic has been discussed many many times in this forum.
Oh, but why am I repeating myself all the time. See here by yourself

Then again, you can see also here (christian Website) contreverse website to what you say

According again to another website (which I just pick out and oh, coincidence, a Muslim Website) we can see, Islam is again fastgrowing.

So, fact is, we stand there where we always stand, nothing changed

[Whatsthepoint]

Or maybe they will come towards Islaam?! May Allah guide them and you. Seeing as China is growing so fast and a recent survey (Shanghai University) shows that there are an estimated 300 Million Muslims in China.

No, no, no, you got it all wrong. The study showed that there are an estimated 300 million believers in China, which includes buddhists, taoists, catholics, other christians and muslims. The number of muslims varies from 20 to 60 million, most of which are ethnic minorites, not converts/reverts.
The fastest growing religions in China is Christianity, not Islam.

[SATalha]

I'm not blaming birth rate, I just say, you cannot really proof which religion is fast growing, and which ones not. It's status quo, and this topic has been discussed many many times in this forum.
Oh, but why am I repeating myself all the time. See here by yourself

Then again, you can see also here (christian Website) contreverse website to what you say

According again to another website (which I just pick out and oh, coincidence, a Muslim Website) we can see, Islam is again fastgrowing.

So, fact is, we stand there where we always stand, nothing changed

Ok I see your point, but do you aknowledge that the West is comming to Islam? And whats your take on Islam superseeding all ways of life? Iam not saying "watch this will happen". What I am saying is that do you think that there is a slight chance the Islam will be more dominant in say Europe?

I know there have been many articles and reports on this subject, I just need other (non-Muslims) peoples views.

[NYCmuslim]

I find it interesting how many Americans converted to Islam after 9/11 because they wanted to study and find out about this "religion of terror." I guess they weren't expecting what they found out.

[Gator]

What do you think of this Verse in relation to today? Not too much.

Are people comming to the Religion of Allah (Islam) in crowds? I would think that crowds as used in the verse would be much larger than the current growth of Islam.

Why do you think that there is this attraction to Islam? Islam, like most other religions, offers it answers and a way of life for those seeking those things that fit their beliefs.
It would help me greatly if you can answer these Questions please.

Salaam

Answers above.

Thanks.

[جوري]

20,000 americans yearly actually according to American news sources
http://news.propeller.com/story/2007...runs-to-islam/

turn to islam yearly. I'd say those numbers are staggering but that is just me..

carry on

cheers!

[guyabano]

Ok I see your point, but do you aknowledge that the West is comming to Islam? And whats your take on Islam superseeding all ways of life? Iam not saying "watch this will happen". What I am saying is that do you think that there is a slight chance the Islam will be more dominant in say Europe?

I know there have been many articles and reports on this subject, I just need other (non-Muslims) peoples views.

No, I'm sorry. I don't see more or less progress of Islam than 30 years ago. To be honest, in my place, there are maybe a few muslims on 30km radius, not more or less, than usually. Most Muslims here in the Forum come from UK, where are many muslims, so you get the feeling, they get more and more.
It is good, Islam make itself more public. Not only Christanity has a right to exist and plus, we should never neglect the power of Buddism since they are (numerous seen) also very powerful.
A fact is, that many people leave Christianity actually, but that does not automatically mean, that Islam gain them all.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Ok I see your point, but do you aknowledge that the West is comming to Islam?

I haven't seen any evidence for this, so I don't know. However, religious statistics are notoriously an absolute minefield. If you want to see how confusing they are, spend a little time at this site.

And whats your take on Islam superseeding all ways of life? Iam not saying "watch this will happen".

I hope it doesn't happen, for many reasons.

What I am saying is that do you think that there is a slight chance the Islam will be more dominant in say Europe?

[More dominant than what?]

I don't think Islam will ever become dominant in Europe, either intellectually or politically. Far too many things would have to change:

* The legal and financial systems would have to be completely overhauled or even built again from scratch;

* democratic politics, for centuries the pride of Europe and elsewhere, would suddenly have to undergo a dramatic fall in mass acceptance, before being scrapped;

* scientific research would have to be limited to within Islamically acceptable areas (and would therefore no longer be science);

* much of modern biology as we know it would have to be discarded (unless evolution became more widely accepted in the Muslim community);

* philosophers and other intellectuals would have to ignore centuries of progress made in the history of ideas;

* the alcohol, pork and music industries would somehow have to be persuaded to disappear.

There are obviously lots of other things that would need to change, but those are the ones I can think of now. Can you honestly see these things happening? I can't.

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol czgibson statistics arent really needed that much

i mean these days i say salaam to at least 20 muslims i dont even know per day... :uuh:

observation is enough :)

[Pk_#2]

Greetings,


I haven't seen any evidence for this, so I don't know. However, religious statistics are notoriously an absolute minefield. If you want to see how confusing they are, spend a little time at this site.



I hope it doesn't happen, for many reasons.


[More dominant than what?]

I don't think Islam will ever become dominant in Europe, either intellectually or politically. Far too many things would have to change:

* The legal and financial systems would have to be completely overhauled or even built again from scratch;

* democratic politics, for centuries the pride of Europe and elsewhere, would suddenly have to undergo a dramatic fall in mass acceptance, before being scrapped;

* scientific research would have to be limited to within Islamically acceptable areas (and would therefore no longer be science);

* much of modern biology as we know it would have to be discarded (unless evolution became more widely accepted in the Muslim community);

* philosophers and other intellectuals would have to ignore centuries of progress made in the history of ideas;

* the alcohol, pork and music industries would somehow have to be persuaded to disappear.

There are obviously lots of other things that would need to change, but those are the ones I can think of now. Can you honestly see these things happening? I can't.

Peace

Yah mate :D Quit bein' silly.

Who eats pork these days,



Not very appetizing. :offended: No offence bro.

[Abu Zakariya]

I think that you have painted up some kind of horror scenario czgibson, with some element of truth to some of what you say.

* The legal and financial systems would have to be completely overhauled or even built again from scratch;

This is really hard to tell unless you are an expert in both the Western and Islamic system. One of the recent recipients of the King Faisal award was recognised for his work in the area of economy in Islam, where he had a system of Islamic banking which worked and was succesful whilst still in conformity with modern banking transactions.

* democratic politics, for centuries the pride of Europe and elsewhere, would suddenly have to undergo a dramatic fall in mass acceptance, before being scrapped;

Again, unless you are an expert in how the Islamic system works you aren't really qualified to tell whether or not this would have to be the case. Read this article to learn about one scholarly opinion on democracy in Islam:

http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cf...sub_cat_id=734

* scientific research would have to be limited to within Islamically acceptable areas (and would therefore no longer be science);

What areas are Islamically unacceptable? I've never heard of some areas that are unacceptable unless you are speaking of things like stem cell reasearch which, I think, Muslim scholars object to but I fail to see how avoding such an area would disqualifiy every other scientific work conducted in a Muslim society from being science.

* much of modern biology as we know it would have to be discarded (unless evolution became more widely accepted in the Muslim community);

So you think that scientists in the Muslim world have a completely different approach to biology? The only different thing would be how they interpret the data from an Islamic point of view. The way one collects data and does scientific research doesn't change.

* philosophers and other intellectuals would have to ignore centuries of progress made in the history of ideas;

There are plenty of ideas that are Islamically acceptable and don't need to be tossed aside. Not every single political philosohpy is implemented in Western states, nor is every single philosophical idea accepted. This doesn't mean that the the progress made in the history of ideas is therefore ignored as a whole.

the alcohol, pork and music industries would somehow have to be persuaded to disappear.

Unless every single person in the West becomes a Muslim, there will still be non-Muslim communities and the above isn't forbidden to them. Why would they want to stop drinking alcohol, eating pork and listening to music?

[Gator]

20,000 americans yearly actually according to American news sources
http://news.propeller.com/story/2007...runs-to-islam/

turn to islam yearly. I'd say those numbers are staggering but that is just me..

carry on

cheers!

I guess its in the eye of the beholder.

From my view, its just at that rate (20K a year), Islam will constitute 5% of the US population by the year 2407, even with the most aggresive current population estimates.

[Isambard]

Not a big fan of "coversion rates". From my own perspectives, I see alot of so called 'religious folks' are actually deists or agnostics. Seeing as how that is almost impossibile to measure and there seems to be greater and greater numbers (at least 90% of my school and other post secondardys) imho, the conversion rates of sqewed.

Besides, who cares if a great many of Americans are doing anything? Historically speaking, when a large number of Americans have gotten together and its been promoted in the hopes of attracting more, its usually been a very bad thing. lol

[جوري]

I guess its in the eye of the beholder.

From my view, its just at that rate (20K a year), Islam will constitute 5% of the US population by the year 2407, even with the most aggresive current population estimates.

Guess will have to wait and see.. under either circumstance, it is all inconsequential at best. righteousness by virtue of being pious is a solo trip not a communal one, even if you have others to accompany you on your journey. Abrahaem PBUH was an Island, he and his cousin Lut were the only two monotheists in a sea of idolatry.
in the scheme of things, each soul is held in pledge by its own deeds!

cheers!

[SATalha]

Why British Women are turning to Islaam

THE SPREAD OF A WORLD CREED
The Times (London)

Lucy Berrington finds the Muslim Faith is winning Western admirers despite hostile media coverage.

Unprecedented numbers of British people, nearly all of them women, are converting to Islam at a time of deep divisions within the Anglican and Catholic churches.

The rate of conversions has prompted predictions that Islam will rapidly become an important religious force in this country.[1] "Within the next 20 years the number of British converts will equal or overtake the immigrant Muslim community that brought the faith here", says Rose Kendrick, a religious education teacher at a Hull comprehensive and the author of a textbook guide to the Koran. She says: "Islam is as much a world faith as is Roman Catholicism. No one nationality claims it as its own". Islam is also spreading fast on the continent and in America.

The surge in conversions to Islam has taken place despite the negative image of the faith in the Western press. Indeed, the pace of conversions has accelerated since publicity over the Salman Rushdie affair, the Gulf War[2] and the plight of the Muslims in Bosnia. It is even more ironic that most British converts should be women, given the widespread view in the west that Islam treats women poorly. In the United States, women converts outnumber men by four to one, and in Britain make up the bulk of the estimated 10, 000 to 20, 000 converts, forming part of a Muslim community of 1 to 1.5 million. Many of Britain's "New Muslims" are from middle-class backgrounds. They include Matthew Wilkinson, a former head boy of Eton who went on to Cambridge, and a son and daughter of Lord Justice Scott, the judge heading the arms-to-Iraq inquiry.

A small-scale survey by the Islamic Foundation in Leicester suggests that most converts are aged 30 to 50. Younger Muslims point to many conversions among students and highlight the intellectual thrust of Islam. "Muhammad" said, "The light of Islam will rise in the West" and I think that is what is happening in our day" says Aliya Haeri, an American-born psychologist who converted 15 years ago. She is a consultant to the Zahra Trust, a charity publishing spiritual literature and is one of Britain's prominent Islamic speakers. She adds: "Western converts are coming to Islam with fresh eyes, without all the habits of the East, avoiding much of what is culturally wrong. The purest tradition is finding itself strongest in the West."[3]

Some say the conversions are prompted by the rise of comparative religious education. The British media, offering what Muslims describe as a relentless bad press on all things Islamic, is also said to have helped. Westerners despairing of their own society - rising in crime, family breakdown, drugs and alcoholism [4] - have come to admire the discipline and security of Islam. Many converts are former Christians disillusioned by the uncertainty of the church and unhappy with the concept of the Trinity and deification of Jesus.

Quest of the Convert - Why Change?

Other converts describe a search for a religious identity. Many had previously been practicing Christians but found intellectual satisfaction in Islam. "I was a theology student and it was the academic argument that led to my conversion." Rose Kendrick, a religious education teacher and author, said she objected to the concept of the original sin: "Under Islam, the sins of the fathers aren't visited on the sons. The idea that God is not always forgiving is blasphemous to Muslims.

Maimuna, 39, was raised as a High Anglican and confirmed at 15 at the peak of her religious devotion. "I was entranced by the ritual of the High Church and thought about taking the veil." Her crisis came when a prayer was not answered. She slammed the door on visiting vicars but traveled to convents for discussions with nuns. "My belief came back stronger, but not for the Church, the institution or the dogma." She researched every Christian denomination, plus Judaism, Buddhism and Krishna Consciousness, before turning to Islam.

Many converts from Christianity reject the ecclesiastical hierarchy emphasizing Muslims' direct relationship with God. They sense a lack of leadership in the Church of England and are suspicious of its apparent flexibility. "Muslims don't keep shifting their goal-posts," says Huda Khattab, 28, author of The Muslim Woman's Handbook, published this year by Ta-Ha. She converted ten years ago while studying Arabic at university. "Christianity changes, like the way some have said pre-marital sex is okay if its with the person you're going to marry. It seems so wishy-washy. Islam was constant about sex, about praying five times a day. The prayer makes you conscious of God all the time. You're continually touching base.

Footnotes

1 This is one of the reasons why there is an onslaught of bad press against Islam and the Muslims. Whoever considers Islam carefully with its principle belief Tawheed (the Uniqueness of Allaah, His and His sole right to subservience, worship and legislation), the sum total of its injunctions, formulated by Allaah (which are harmonic and define the true nature, position, rights and responsibilities of both sexes), and its justice in every sphere of life (social, economical and political) for all categories of people - wives, husbands, children, orphans, women, the poor and indigent, the poverty-stricken - will realize why it poses a threat to the leading elite of the western civilizations (i.e. those who benefit most from the unfair and unjust forms by which the people are governed). It is in the hands of such people that the control of peoples beliefs and ideas lie (via television, Magazines, Films, Education) and naturally this advantage is used to maintain the existing status quo. Muslims are not governed by and enslaved the false beliefs and ideas of humans, they are enslaved to and governed by Allah alone. This is the essence of Islam - That enslavement is to none but to Allah alone and everything besides Him is undeserving of worship and subservience.

2 It is now an established fact that around 5,000 of the US Troops who were stationed in Saudi Arabia became Muslims during and shortly after the Gulf War.

3 Much of the alleged oppression of women is due to localized culture which is based on a superstition that is more akin to Hinduism. It is, however, portrayed as being Islamic in origin which in turn seriously affects the 'independence of thought' of those who do not bother to pursue the matter in an objective manner - which includes most people.

4 One of the biggest industries in the West is that of entertainment and amusement. This is essential to maintain the false idea of progress, that what comes next is better and worth enduring for. Peoples minds are preoccupied with their own pleasures and other pursuits while others are being murdered, slaughtered, women raped, innocent babies and children butchered with axes and knives, innocent by-standers in robberies and muggings killed, the aged battered to death by adolescents, thousands dying of drug abuse, thousands of innocent lives destroyed by the consumption of alcohol, drunkards beating their women and children... the list is endless. The entertainment industry is one of the effective tools in the 'normalization of the thought process', the 'desensitization of the humanistic concern', and the intensification of the 'my pleasure and gratification is what is most important' syndrome.

[SATalha]

The verse in realtion today surely has indicated this.

[namr777]

It's weird how atheists and other people who prefer to ignore the truth, are always obsessed with evidence... If Allah wanted people to convert through evidence, then religion would be practiced by fear.... leaving nothing to faith... Islam is about taking that leap in the unknown... Trusting something higher than the physical truth.
Because of you, i understand now, why many atheist insist in ignoring Islam. It has something to do with the heart and it accepting a higher truth... For Islam, it is god who chooses who approaches him, and maybe that is the reason you aren't willing to approach Islam.... You are obsessed with the sight, mere illusion, you believe what you see, but don't take the time to listen to your heart and perceive what's beneath the world.... Aren't you seeing the greater scheme of things... are you... or you just want to keep on ignoring it....

[Gator]

Hello. Just a few comments

Speaking for myself, I don't ignore Islam as I'm here to get a better grasp of the religion and the people who follow it.

How would evidence based converstion mean practicing by fear?

Well, maybe Allah hasn't approached me yet for some reason.

My philosophy comes from the conclusions I come to based on reasoning through my experiences I have. The only thing I'd say is I don't see "your" truth.

I see no greater scheme and don't think I'm "ignoring" that. We look at things and come up with different conclusions as to what is true.

Thanks.