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Bittersteel
09-19-2005, 09:24 AM
You may move this to the refutation section.

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Alright now.I need refutatioins for this.I know how slave are supposed to be treated as well as women.All I need are quotes and some uh statements by some historians to counter this.

Thanks in advance.

:sl:

ADMIN'S COMMENT: PLEASE DO NOT POST ANTI-ISLAMIC ARTICLES. REFER TO FORUM RULES.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
09-19-2005, 01:19 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
Alright now.I need refutatioins for this.I know how slave are supposed to be treated as well as women.All I need are quotes and some uh statements by some historians to counter this.
Sorry bro, it doesn't work like that. You're not allowed to post anti-islamic articles on the forums. You can ask questions or discuss claims, but no posting their articles.

:w:
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Bittersteel
09-19-2005, 03:38 PM
okay then.generally how many historians agree with the fact that Islam gave rights to women even at the start?
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kadafi
09-19-2005, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
You may move this to the refutation section.

---

Alright now.I need refutatioins for this.I know how slave are supposed to be treated as well as women.All I need are quotes and some uh statements by some historians to counter this.

Thanks in advance.

:sl:

ADMIN'S COMMENT: PLEASE DO NOT POST ANTI-ISLAMIC ARTICLES. REFER TO FORUM RULES.
:w:

That is an odd statement akhee considerin' that you know the humane position of Islaam on slavery but require quotations from (non-Muslim?) historians to evince that Islaam does not advocate slavery?

What happened to using the authenthic sources (i.e. the Qur'aan and the Sunnah). Isn't it the Shariah where we can derive the answer that Islaam does not promote slavery?

But fair enough akhee,

Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction
Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is higly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women's quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. -- p. 67
Roger Du Pasquier, Unveiling Islam
To answer this question, it should first be remarked that Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war -- when these were not simply massacred -- and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.

It should be very clearly underlined that the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed -- for instance -- in the Roman Empire. Islamic legislation subjected slaveowners to a set of precise obligations, first among which was the slave's right to life, for, according to a hadith, 'Whoever kills his slave shall be killed by us'. In consequence, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man.

There are many other hadiths which define Islam's true attitude in this regard. The Prophet said: 'Your slaves are your brethren; therefore whoever has a brother who depends upon him must feed and clothe him in the way he feeds and clothes himself; and should not impose upon him tasks which exceed his capacity; should you ask them to do such things, then you are obliged to help them.' The Sharia takes this injunction, among many others, into account when defining the responsibilities and duties of slaveholders.

There is another teaching which enjoins respect for the human dignity of slaves: 'Let none of you say, "This man, or this woman, is my slave". He must rather say: "This is my man, and this my woman."' Putting into relief the provisional character of social ties and the authority exercised by slaveowners over their slaves, the Prophet said: 'It is true that God has made you their masters, but, had He so wished, He could equally well have made you their slaves.'

To manumit a slave has always been regarded as one of the most meritorious of all acts, and many passages of the Qur'an recommend or even require it, particularly as a means of expiation for serious faults. Traditional legislation lays down the methods of voluntary liberation of slaves by their masters (itq), and there were very many Muslims who observed these, especially at the end of their lives, so as not to die and appear before God without having given full freedom to the human beings placed in their power during their earthly lives.

Additionally, slaves had the ability to enfranchise themselves at their own initiative, without waiting passively for the goodwill of their masters: the procedure known as mukataba allowed them to buy their own freedom with sums which they saved from their work, and which the state frequently augmented with advances -- a measure which the slaveowner had no right to oppose. In contrast to the situation under Roman law, slaves were not deprived of the legal ability to exercise their rights and to appeal to a judge against their masters in all cases of illegal treatment.

Besides domestic slavery, which was generally imbued with a patriarchal character, there also existed a form of military slavery, which was frequently employed by princes in need of recruits, especially for their personal guards. This situation had the effect of conferring an often considerable influence and power on men of servile condition or origin, and some of these became the founders of great and illustrious dynasties such as the Tulunids and Mamlukes of Egypt.

The object of a prosperous commercial sector, which under the Abbasid Empire was often the speciality of non-Muslims, particularly Byzantine and Venetian Christians, and Jews, slavery gradually declined in importance until, at the beginning of the present century, it was confined to a few survivals which have now disappeared entirely. Thanks to the strict traditional controls which have always regulated the practice, it would be difficult to deny that social conditions were remarkably humane during the great periods of Muslim civilization, and that these, moreover, were in conformity with the 'egalitarian' spirit of Islam, which, in a hadith, teaches that 'the blackest of Abyssinians' is superior to most noble of Qurai****es, if he has more faith. -- p. 104 - 107
Howard Zinn, Declarations of Independence
The idea that entered Western consciousness several centuries ago, that black people are less than human, made possible the Atlantic slave trade, during which perhaps 40 million people died. -- p. 1
Sylviane A. Diouf, Servants of Allah: African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas
Author asserts that Islam was the first revealed religion followed by African slaves, and describes their struggle in upholding Islamic practices.
And then we have the fact that most Sultans (born out of female slave) of the Ottoman empire were slaves.

The first Muslim dynasty in India were composed of caliphs (who were former slaves).

A.H. Lybyer in 'The Government of the Ottoman Empire; Harvard University Press; 1913; pp 45-6 writes:
"The Ottoman system deliberately took slaves and made them ministers of state; it took boys from the sheep-run and the plow-tail and made them courtirs and the husbands of princesses; it took young men whose ancestors had borne the Christian name for centuries and made them rulers in the greatest of Mohammedan states and soldiers and generals in invincible armies whose chief joy was to beat down the Cross and elevate the Crescent"
Emmanuel d'Aranda, a student from Flanders, who was caught at sea in 1640CE, and remained captive in the Regency of Algiers for two years (1640-2), narrated his experience. His first master was Cataborne Mustafa, who shared his meals with him, and his company. Then at some point his master, as a punishment following a quarrel with an army officer, was sent away for military duty for six months. Here is what d'Aranda has to say:
"I was sad about my master, who told me: 'henceforth you will go and live at Muhammad Celibi Oiga; I hope with God's help, before my return you will be free, and if I had money I will share it with you." I answered: 'Master, I know about your good will and your poverty; I kiss your hands, thanking you as much as I can for the good treatment I received in your house.' He said ''When you are back in Flanders, give my greetings to your parents."
At the new house of Celibi Oiga, it was the same sort of treatment, the master being a very devout man, and very learned, discussing various issues of science and religion.

Chevalier d'Arvieux wrote of his experiences in the Regency of Tunis as an envoy of Louis XIV to that country between 1665-1675, when he helped secure the freedom of Christian slaves through negotations with the Muslim Turks. His Memoires were only published long after his death in 1702 by Father Labat in 1735. He says:
"We imagine that the Christians who have the misfortune to be slaves in Barbary, are tortured in a very cruel manner and the most in-humane treatment inflicted on them. There are people who in order to stir the charity of the faitful pour with great assurance these lies; their intention, although good, is still always a lie. They forget that in this instance that it is not right to cause harm so as to derive good. I, too, have been in this situation like many others.... But what I saw in Tunis has convinced me these people are full of humanity, as I witnessed that our slaves on the boats waiting to sail were fed every day (fruit, meat, bread...)... and some of these slaves demanded that they stayed with their masters until the day they left for home; and I agreed. Their masters shared their meals with them, gave them tobacco, and looked after them as if they were their own children. They kissed them on the day of parting, and assured them, that if business or misfortune brought them back to the country, they could freely live with them, and they will be more than welcome.
Chevalier D'Arvieux (1995: Tunis: Le sort des esclaves chretiens: pp 457-61: vol iii)
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Ansar Al-'Adl
09-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
okay then.generally how many historians agree with the fact that Islam gave rights to women even at the start?
:sl:
Along the same lines as what Br. Kadafi mentioned, I'd like to emphasize that it doesn't matter what some non-muslim historians say about our religion. Our sources are the Qur'an and Sunnah, not the kuffar! And the Qur'an and Sunnah clearly testify to the rights of women in Islam.

For more info:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/Women/Li...through_Islam/
http://www.load-islam.com/Women/

:w:
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