Lamenting the Nature of God: Sin?

[AntiKarateKid]

Hey guys! I was perusing through some quotes from the Prophet and one of them that I found was : Reflect upon God's creation but not upon his nature or else you will perish.

God asks us to reflect upon his creations, including the Holy Quran and his signs in nature and our lives. It is my belief that in trying to explore the nature of God one confuses himself and digs a hole for himself, deeper and deeper until he can't even grasp the spiritual sphere of life and tries to justify everything with only what he sees( the physical sphere).

Are we sinning by following the atheists and delving into the nature of God and not his creations on this forum?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


You get to know Allah through His revelation, and by understanding His Names & Attributes through the way the Prophet, his companions and those who followed them understood them. Having knowledge of Allah is a duty upon every person, since He is our Creator, Sustainer, our Lord who we are obligated to worship.


To get closer to Allah, to appreciate His favours - we are to reflect on the creation (i.e. a clear example of this is Surah Ar-Rahmaan [chapter 55 - the Most Merciful], in which Allah tells us of His creation and how it is in relation to mankind, and how all these are the favours from Allah from Him for our benefit.



So we should follow the path of the Qur'an and Sunnah, since they encourage reflection upon the creation, while following the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the understanding of the companions of the Prophet to understand our belief in Allah, and His self, the rights that He has upon us, and the rights we have upon Him.




And Allah knows best.

[glo]

If I understand AntiKarateKid correctly, he is wondering whether it is Islamic to engage in debates about the nature of God - as we do quite frequently in more philosophical debates in the Comparative Religions section ...

[Umar001]

Where did you get that quote from akhi, and the Qur'an is not created.

Glo, I don't think it's the same thing, for example, we can debate something about God if we have evidences in Islam. Like, is God forgiving? Yes because he is...and mention the names of God that indicate this, but we shouldn't speak without knowledge about God.

As to actually asking, 'If God done x then how did he manage to move in such a way to do y and z' thats a different catagory.

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[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Oh yeah, bro al habeshi's right - the Qur'an is the speech of Allah :) not His creation, since His speech is not created, but rather His Attribute.


You can check out that issue in depth in the life of the defender of the Sunnah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal - when the issue of the Qur'an being Allah's speech was a great trial for the believers (during the early Abbasid dynasty.) Denying that the Qur'an is Allah's literal speech can take someone out of the fold of Islam.

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...bn-hanbal.html



Glo, in regard to the issue of God i.e. asking the 'howness' of His Attributes is something which is not permitted, since we cannot comprehend Him, nor have we been given knowledge in that regard - since we cannot comprehend something we cannot see. But what He has given us through revelation is sufficient for us to make us successful, in this life and the next.



And Allah knows best.



Peace.

[glo]

Glo, I don't think it's the same thing, for example, we can debate something about God if we have evidences in Islam. Like, is God forgiving? Yes because he is...and mention the names of God that indicate this, but we shouldn't speak without knowledge about God.

Glo, in regard to the issue of God i.e. asking the 'howness' of His Attributes is something which is not permitted, since we cannot comprehend Him, nor have we been given knowledge in that regard - since we cannot comprehend something we cannot see. But what He has given us through revelation is sufficient for us to make us successful, in this life and the next.

Thank you, you two.

I believe that trying to understand God draws us closer to him.

But there are also differences in intention - are we seeking to understand God to know him better and therefore become a better followers/servants of him, or are we trying to 'be like God because we want to do without him'?

Peace

[- Qatada -]

But there are also differences in intention - are we seeking to understand God to know him better and therefore become a better followers/servants of him, or

We attempt to understand God more through the revelation and guide He has sent us, in order to draw closer to Him, His Love and Mercy. The more we understand God, the more we will attempt to fulfill our duty to Him. It reminds me of this hadith;

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who loves to meet Allah, Allah also loves to meet him, and he who dislikes to meet Allah, Allah also abhors to meet him. [Sahih Muslim]


The one who is grateful will gain His pleasure and goodness in this life and the one to come, whereas the one who is ungrateful is being unjust to his self, and will be held accountable only for his/her own self on the Day of Judgment.

are we trying to 'be like God because we want to do without him'?

We can never be like God, since we are dependent upon Him. God is God because He is perfect and dependent upon no other, there is none like Him in any way or form. He is Perfect, and that is why we take Him as God, while we are weak and prone to error, so He is the Most Merciful, the Forbearing. He gives us a long life so we can learn from our errors, so we can correct ourselves and turn to Him in obedience, so He can forgive us and give us more out of His Mercy and Pleasure.

[glo]

We can never be like God, since we are dependent upon Him. God is God because He is perfect and dependent upon no other, there is none like Him in any way or form. He is Perfect, and that is why we take Him as God, while we are weak and prone to error, so He is the Most Merciful, the Forbearing. He gives us a long life so we can learn from our errors, so we can correct ourselves and turn to Him in obedience, so He can forgive us and give us more out of His Mercy and Pleasure.

I agree, Qatada

But I believe that Bible stories, such as the fall in the garden of Eden and destruction of the Tower of Babel warn us against the human striving and desire to 'become like God'.
Certainly many atheist voices today would claim that we can manage perfectly well (perhaps even better) without God! :X

Peace