/* */

PDA

View Full Version : Honour Killing



Iftikhar
01-27-2008, 10:24 AM
Honour Killing
Honour killing and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions. Hindus idolise women as Goddesses on one hand, while downgrading them on the sly at the same time. There is nothing in the Holy Quran and the Hadiths that may encourage people to kill their daughters. Infact, Islam came to abolish the dark ages of Pagan- Hindu –Judeo- Christian traditions. Islam is a matter of choice and there is no compulsion at all. It is a misconception that forced marriage and honour killing are part of Muslim culture. Forced marriage, honour killing and genital mutilation are rare practices among migrant communities. Muslim migrants are worried about institutional racism, binge drinking, drug addiction, incivility, gun and knife crimes, high rate of abortions and teen age pregnancies. An average of 20 English girls under the age of 16 falls pregnant every day. Muslim parents do not want their children to be integrated into such barbarity. Muslim women feel torn between two cultures, thanks to the British education system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. It makes their lives very confusing.

The tragedy of forced marriage and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslim schools by female Muslim teachers. Educational attainment rises quite significantly if boys and girls are educated separately. The tragedies are an eye opener for all those Muslim parents who send their children to state schools where they are exposed to non-Muslim teachers who have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community and do not understand the needs and demands of the Muslim children. Muslim schools are crucial for Muslim children because western education makes a man/woman stupid. The hypocrisy of the Western society is clearly seen whereas an Australian Judge failed to jail nine males who admitted gang-raping a 10-year old aborigine girl in 2005, saying the victim probably agreed to have sex with them and a UNICEF Photo of the year shows, a bridegroom, 40, with his 11-year old bride in Afghanistan. In my opinion, a UNICEF photo of the year must show a nine year British girl having a baby and another photo showing a gang of teenage girls with anti-social behaviour and vomiting out side a pub, thanks to binge drinking. Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslim schools are the solutions and not a problem. They help to strengthen community cohesion, not undermine it. Muslim schools stand as shining beacons of light, serving as one of the most crucial factors which protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Eurocentricism, homosexuality, racism and secular values and traditions. They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Muslim schools are not only faith schools but also bilingual schools. Infact, bilingualism is an asset and not a problem as perceived by the British education system. There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. English language is associated with western culture.

The silent majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools but there are not enough schools to go by. The only alternative left is either British Government should introduce voucher system for parents to choose the school of their choice or designate all those state schools as Muslim community schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslims are in majority. Such schools may be handed over to Muslim educational Trusts or charities for their management. They are in a better position to educate Muslim children in accordance with their needs and demands. This demand is in accordance with the law of the land because there are state schools already managed by private companies. Muslim community is not asking for a favour. It is their legal right.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Souljette
01-27-2008, 12:53 PM
nice post
Reply

Whatsthepoint
01-27-2008, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iftikhar
Honour Killing
Honour killing and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions.
Perhaps you could elaborate?

As for the entire post... If you don't like something, go back to where you came from! There'll be less trouble without you!

*people who know me, hopefully know that I normally do not use such tone...but this....:heated::grumbling:(:hmm:
Reply

crayon
01-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Sure, muslim schools would benefit the muslims in that community, and they would teach kids about their religion.

But, it's the parent's responsibility, first and foremost, to educate their children. Parents can't expect kids to grow up with little or no proper knowledge of islam or what it is, and then expect them to follow it's rules. It doesn't make sense.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
krypton6
01-27-2008, 01:52 PM
The man who kills because of honour should be killed himself.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
01-27-2008, 02:36 PM
Sad when I read such things. Here are quotes from the Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji talking about equality.

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Bẖandahu hī bẖand ūpjai bẖandai bājẖ na ko­ė.

From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

Guru Nanak Dev

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥
So ki­o manḏā ākẖī­ai jiṯ jameh rājān.

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

Guru Nanak Dev
Reply

wilberhum
01-27-2008, 07:20 PM
Honour killing and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions, but in the West it is not usually Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christians that practice it.
Reply

Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iftikhar
Honour Killing
Honour killing and female infanticide come from Pagan-Hindu-Judeo-Christian traditions.
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Welcome to the planet Earth. :happy:
Reply

chosen
01-27-2008, 11:34 PM
we here of many honor killings all over the world..mostly in islamic countries..but even in the united states two daughters were killed by there father last year..
But what about all the killings that are not labeled honor killings..plenty of men kill women out of jelousy..when a man finds out his wife is cheating on him..or even if a wife finds out her husband has been cheating on her..many times it leads to violent crimes and murder..so why just pick out islam..because they have a name for it...murder by any name is still murder..
Reply

ummsara1108
01-28-2008, 01:00 PM
How inhumaine, I have read lots of stories reguarding this subject, it seems to me that the ones doing the killing are the ones that are selfish and misdirected, but surely the final judge will take appropriate action.
Reply

aamirsaab
01-28-2008, 01:11 PM
:sl:
Honour killings are totally uncool. They usually occurs in the asian (pakistani, indian and bangladeshi) communities. I found it strange as to why the article is called honour killings though, especially since the actual article deals with a lot of other things
Reply

------
01-28-2008, 01:17 PM
:salamext:

...whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; ...
Qur'an, 5:32
Reply

mimian
01-31-2008, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
The man who kills because of honour should be killed himself.


ameen well said brother.
Reply

strider
02-02-2008, 11:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iftikhar
Honour Killing
Forced marriage, honour killing and genital mutilation are rare practices among migrant communities.
Oh, really? I must be living on a different planet to you seeing that majority of forced marriages and honour killings are common practices among migrant communities, especially South Asians. White English people (the ethnic majority of this country) are, in general, individualistic and hold personal happiness to be of great importance. You don't see forced marriages or honour killings being common amongst such communities.
Muslim migrants are worried about institutional racism, binge drinking, drug addiction, incivility, gun and knife crimes, high rate of abortions and teen age pregnancies. An average of 20 English girls under the age of 16 falls pregnant every day. Muslim parents do not want their children to be integrated into such barbarity.
Majority of people in this country, be they migrants, Muslim or non-Muslim, are worried about all the things you just listed and lots of Muslim youth engage in such practices also. Blame the state of society as a whole, if you like, but don't try to paint a picture of how Muslim parents are the only parents who want the best for their children and non-Muslim parents are somehow proud of their children for engaging in such 'barbarity'.

Muslim women feel torn between two cultures, thanks to the British education system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. It makes their lives very confusing.
Could you please elaborate?

The tragedy of forced marriage and honour killing could have been avoided if the poor girls were educated in a single sex state funded Muslim schools by female Muslim teachers.
Forced marriages and honour killings are not a result of being educated in a non-Muslim environment rather the backward mentality of culture driven parents. I don't see how sending girls to a Muslim school will somehow solve this problem.

Educational attainment rises quite significantly if boys and girls are educated separately.
You're simplifying the casual relationship you've identified. Boys and girls educated separately in a school where the teaching standards aren't up to scratch wouldn't do as well as being educated in a co-ed with excellent teaching staff.


The tragedies are an eye opener for all those Muslim parents who send their children to state schools where they are exposed to non-Muslim teachers who have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community and do not understand the needs and demands of the Muslim children.
Excuse me? Why are you berating teachers simply because they are not Muslim? I know plenty of non-Muslim teachers who respect all beliefs and ethnic groups and do their best to understand all children. Muslim children are not alien to the same needs and wants as other children; they both need love, care and attention.

Muslim schools are crucial for Muslim children because western education makes a man/woman stupid.
This is by fair the most hilarous statement yet. How does western education make people 'stupid'? Thousands of successful, well-educated Muslims came through the Western education system and no one would propose that they are 'stupid'. You do little justice to millions who benefit from the western education system.
The hypocrisy of the Western society is clearly seen whereas an Australian Judge failed to jail nine males who admitted gang-raping a 10-year old aborigine girl in 2005, saying the victim probably agreed to have sex with them and a UNICEF Photo of the year shows, a bridegroom, 40, with his 11-year old bride in Afghanistan. In my opinion, a UNICEF photo of the year must show a nine year British girl having a baby and another photo showing a gang of teenage girls with anti-social behaviour and vomiting out side a pub, thanks to binge drinking.
Hold on.

1- The case of the girl who was raped does not mean that Western society, as a whole, is hypocritic rather the judge in that particular case had a few screws loose. Lots of people in the West condemned the judges ruling. Therefore, your point regarding the UNICEF photograph of the year is neither here nor there.
2- 9 year old British girls do have babies, gangs of teenage girls do engage in anti-social behaviour and many teenagers do binge drink. However, majority of the country is not condoning such behaviour and you'll find that many parents, be they Muslim or non-Muslim, are united in condemning such practices and are as unhappy as you to see such affairs.

Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
You don't have to be a Muslim to stand as a good role model for children so don't imply that teachers who are not Muslim and teaching in non-Muslim schools are somehow preventing Muslim children from flourishing into stable, young adults society can be proud of.
Muslim schools are the solutions and not a problem. They help to strengthen community cohesion, not undermine it.
Muslim schools certainly do have their advantages however do not ignore the negative aspects of them in your haste to hold them up as 'beacons of light'. Muslim schools popping up everywhere can be seen to be extremely separatist and can do little to strengthen community cohesion. When talking of community cohesion and social harmony, you can not simply choose to look at the benefits something has for a particular group in society; you have to look at what a particular action means for a community as a whole.

Muslim schools stand as shining beacons of light, serving as one of the most crucial factors which protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Eurocentricism, homosexuality, racism and secular values and traditions.
So, after Muslim children have been educated at a Muslim school, what do you propose they do? Serve only Muslims and engage in the advancement of the Muslim community alone? The last thing we need is for people to create their own little ghettos.

You want to replace 'eurocentrism' with 'islam-centrism'? How is that any better? Lots of secular values are not strange to Islam; the respect for human life and personal property being one.

You can't walk around in your personal little 'Muslim bubble' and slate everybody who does not hold the same views as you.

They need to be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
I don't see why they 'must be well versed' in a language that many no longer speak or 'keep in touch with cultural roots' they no longer identify themselves with. However, the main point to be made here is that sending children to a non-Muslim school does not mean they will lose their 'cultural roots' and 'community languages.' There are lots of social agencies which promote the things you are scared will perish, in society today, with more and more emerging to cater for the needs of our multi-cultural society as we speak.

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but also bilingual schools. Infact, bilingualism is an asset and not a problem as perceived by the British education system.
If the British education system perceived bilingualism as a problem then many schools would not be promoting foreign languages and specialist language schools would not be flourishing, yet they are.

The silent majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools but there are not enough schools to go by.
According to whom? Have you conducted a large scale social survey to come to make that conclusion?

The only alternative left is either British Government should introduce voucher system for parents to choose the school of their choice or designate all those state schools as Muslim community schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslims are in majority. Such schools may be handed over to Muslim educational Trusts or charities for their management. They are in a better position to educate Muslim children in accordance with their needs and demands.
And what is to happen to the non-Muslim children in a majority Muslim area if the state school in their area becomes a Muslim community school? You do not seem to care about the welfare of all children, just Muslim children.
This demand is in accordance with the law of the land because there are state schools already managed by private companies. Muslim community is not asking for a favour. It is their legal right.
How is it?


If the poll on your own website is anything to go by, majority of the people do not think that we should have more Muslim schools.
Reply

Annie
02-06-2008, 04:15 PM
salams
forced marriges is part of Asian culture and i sgree it has nothing to do with Islam.
Reply

Iftikhar
02-06-2008, 04:21 PM
Salaam

English is the economic language of the British Muslims while Arabic is
religious. Urdu and other communiy languaes are our social and emotional
languages.

English could become a social and emotional language if Muslim youths
started going to Pubs, dancing club and keep on changing partners in bed. It
is only in bed with different partners one could learn English as a social
and emotional languge.

There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. The day
Muslims become Monolingual Brits, one can see all the evils of the British
society. The integration has already started with monoglot Muslims.

There is a common saying that man can't live by bread alone. Man cannot live
by faith alone. He/she needs a culture and languages.

Muslim children must be well versed in Standard English to follow the
Natiuonal Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and
other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and
enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

A report shows that Muslim born and educated are more involved in honour
violence. The reason is the they find themselves cut off from their cultural
roots and languages. Majority of Muslims are from Pakistan and they suffer
more than others.

All Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role models, otherwise, they will keep on suffering with their
adopted English language and English culture.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become monoglot Brit.
Reply

Muezzin
02-07-2008, 04:29 PM
Where's the honour in someone killing their own flesh and blood?

I mean, Luke Skywalker couldn't even kill Darth Vader for that reason, and the latter was one of the most evil people in the entire fictional galaxy.
Reply

strider
02-07-2008, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iftikhar
Salaam

English is the economic language of the British Muslims while Arabic is
religious. Urdu and other communiy languaes are our social and emotional
languages.

English could become a social and emotional language if Muslim youths
started going to Pubs, dancing club and keep on changing partners in bed. It
is only in bed with different partners one could learn English as a social
and emotional languge.
And why not in other aspects of life? You can convey emotions through all languages. What is to be said about converts to Islam whose ancestors have resided in this country for centuries? Is Urdu to be their social and emotional language, too?

There is a positive co-relation between language and culture. The day
Muslims become Monolingual Brits, one can see all the evils of the British
society.
Indeed, there is a positive colleration between language and culture in some aspects of life. However, how does speaking a language other than English allow one to see the 'evils of the British society'? Is the British society 'evil' because the national language of this land is English?
The integration has already started with monoglot Muslims.
What integration?
There is a common saying that man can't live by bread alone. Man cannot live
by faith alone. He/she needs a culture and languages.
Fair enough, however that culture and language does not have to be something other than English if people feel that England is their home and English is their language.
Muslim children must be well versed in Standard English to follow the
Natiuonal Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity.
All children must know English fairly well to get far in most aspects of life.
At the same time they need to be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and
other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and
enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
Here you are assuming that all Muslims have a cultural background which is not from of this country. Are you trying to be racist?
A report shows that Muslim born and educated are more involved in honour
violence.
From that one may deduce that Islam has educated them to engage in honour killing.

The reason is the they find themselves cut off from their cultural
roots and languages.
That doesn't follow. The main reason why involve themselves in honour killings is to preserve their honour; if they are cut off from their cultural roots then surely they wouldn't feel it necessary to preserve their family honour and cultural traditions.

Majority of Muslims are from Pakistan and they suffer
more than others.
Do they suffer because they are Pakistani's or because they are Muslims? And how do they suffer?
All Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role models, otherwise, they will keep on suffering with their
adopted English language and English culture.
First the English culture was evil according to you now the language itself is? Get real.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become monoglot Brit.
Everybody Muslim or just you and people who agree with you?
Reply

InToTheRain
02-07-2008, 08:53 PM
[PIE]Islam and Honor Killings
By Imam Zaid on 12 July 2007

One of the gravest charges levied against Islam, in terms of its alleged antipathy towards women, is the charge that it encourages a phenomenon known as honor killings. This un-Islamic practice consists of the murder of female family members who are seen as dishonoring their families through real or perceived acts, such as premarital sexual relations or unapproved dating.

This practice has absolutely no sanction in the Qur’an, the Prophetic practice, or in the evolved systems of Islamic law. In the case of fornication or adultery, the only way a charge can be levied against an individual, male or female, is through confession, which is discouraged, or by four people actually witnessing the male organ penetrating the female. Even if four people witnessed a naked man engaged with a naked woman, but could not actually testify that they witnessed penetration, their testimony would be rejected.

In a somewhat related issue, it should be noted that in three of the four Sunni schools of law, as is the case with all of the major Shiite schools, pregnancy is not a proof of fornication, as the possibility of rape exists in such a case. Therefore, if a single woman were to become pregnant, according to the overwhelming majority of Islamic jurists, there is no basis for punishing her. In the few well-publicized instances where a pregnant woman has been threatened with a punishment, the minority opinion of the Maliki School of law was unjustly evoked, as occurred in Nigeria[1], or criminal malfeasance occurred as is the case in Pakistan[2].

In the case of dating, there is no Islamically-mandated punishment for a male or a female seeing a member of the opposite sex against the wishes of their families. Hence, to kill a female guilty of one of these offenses is not some sort of Islamic punishment, it is cold-blooded murder, and no Islamic authority can argue otherwise.

The overwhelming majority of Muslim societies are free from such practices, although they do endure in some parts of the Middle East and South Asia. According to statistics released by the United Nations in 2000 there are approximately 5,000 deaths annually from “honor” killings. Even if one death occurred due to such barbarity, it would be one too many, as the Qur’an emphasizes that whoever takes an innocent life without sanction it is as if the murderer has slaughtered the entirety of humanity (5:35).

To use the existence of such killings to smear Islam shows the desperation and misplaced priorities of those levying such attacks. Most of those deaths are the pathetic acts of sick individuals, who are far removed from the letter, as we have briefly shown above, and the spirit of Islam. An example of such an individual is Muhammad Riaz, a British Muslim of South Asian descent who died as a result of a fire he set to burn to death his wife and four daughters, allegedly because his wife resisted his attempt to arrange marriages for his daughters. His wife and daughters did perish in that fire. To present Riaz, whose daughters had neither fornicated nor dated, as anything other than a sick individual is a sad attempt to defame Islam and it teachings.

To attack Islam from this angle is a case of misplaced priorities because it distracts attention from far graver abuses of women that demand immediate redress. For example, the State Department estimates that approximately 800,000 women and girls are trafficked as sexual slaves annually. The overwhelming majority of these females are taken from and sent to nominally Christian countries. In spite of that, it would be disingenuous to use such statistics as an indictment against Christianity or Christian sexual ethics. This existence of such a practice is an affront to humanity and requires our collective attention.

Other issues that involve attacks against the persons and dignity of women such as rape and pornography are epidemic and require the immediate attention of the international community.

Saying this is not to minimize the gravity of so-called honor killings to the extent that they do occur in Muslim societies. As Muslims, we are commanded to be committed to justice. That commitment entails that as a community we oppose in the strongest terms “honor” killings and take immediate action to end such a practice in our communities. Practical steps include the following:

1. Emphasize that such killings have no sanction in the Qur’an, the Prophetic practice, or in Islamic law.
2. Declare anyone guilty of involvement in honor killings to be a cold-blooded murderer.
3. Encourage judicial authorities to enact the harshest punishments possible for anyone accused of involvement in such killings.
4. Educate our Muslim communities about the un-Islamic nature of honor killings, and the pressures, nuances, challenges and complications facing young Muslims in the West.
5. Work to eliminate the double standards and hypocrisy that exist in our communities, generally, concerning attitudes and standards relating to the indiscretions of males as opposed to females.

In conclusion, Islam honors the female, and values femininity. It is up to every Muslim to translate theoretical teachings in that regard into a beautiful reality that helps to elevate the status of women in all societies.

Notes

1 In cases where the Maliki school is evoked, I describe that as unjustly because every effort should be made to ward off accusation of a crime in such cases. If the majority opinion does that then it should be the basis of the ruling.

2 In the Pakistani cases the Hanafi school of law, which is universally followed in Pakistan, discounts the existence of pregnancy as a basis for proof of fornication or adultery. Hence, any effort to punish a woman who comes up pregnant, especially due to rape, is a crime and a perversion of justice.
[/PIE]
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-16-2009, 02:24 PM
  2. Replies: 69
    Last Post: 11-30-2007, 06:25 PM
  3. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 11-06-2005, 03:29 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!