The existence of God

[Uthman]

Greetings Tornado,

Actually, I have had this experience. I definitely once believed that a personal god existed and didn't doubt its existence.

Interesting. No doubt at all? Was it as though you knew he existed?

[Tornado]

Greetings Tornado,



Interesting. No doubt at all? Was it as though you knew he existed?

I didn't have a doubt in that I knew he existed but when I had questions, I just concluded that he was different or weird. The only doubt I had was what was god's first memory since I couldn't imagine something going back for eternity. Though as an atheist, that question turns to why is there something rather than nothing since it's kinda the same thing.

[Bassam Zawadi]

listen to my lecture on atheism over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/multimedia

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

listen to my lecture on atheism over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/multimedia

I posted the lecture in a thread, waiting for approval...

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[Azy]

listen to my lecture on atheism over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/multimedia

Looked at most of the slideshow and listened to 5 minutes of the Atheism and Materialism recording and I've lost count of the number of points I wanted to make.

First things first I suppose, the definition of atheism.
The prefix 'a' (or 'an') is from the Greek meaning 'absence of', therefore atheism can be defined as the absence of a theistic belief, though it has come to also mean the rejection of theistic belief.

agnosticism:
Thomas Huxley invented the term and said the following about it:
"it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism."

In my opinion, if someone were to assert "we cannot possibly know whether God exists or not", they would cease to be an agnostic because this is a belief not founded in logic or evidence. This is unless the definition of God included in his attributes the state of being unknowable in which case the agnostic would just be stating the obvious.

--
In your recording you say that science cannot go beyond the natural world, but you are making the assumption and claim that such a thing as the supernatural world exists. Where is the evidence that it does?
Quoting the Quran to prove the Quran isn't going to help.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Hello Azy.

The brother mentioned in another lecture that it's not valid to use one book and using merely quotes from the same book to proove it. And he didn't use that method, rather he used proofs which are present in the Qur'an. So, he didn't use the ayats such as: "This a book revelead from Allah" but he used logical arguments present in the Qur'an.

Where is the evidence that it does?

Listen to the lecture please. You listened only to the first five minutes, the brother did mention a lot of points refuting atheism.

[Trumble]

In my opinion, if someone were to assert "we cannot possibly know whether God exists or not", they would cease to be an agnostic because this is a belief not founded in logic or evidence.

Whatever Huxley may or may not have in mind the belief in quotes pretty much currently defines an agnostic, at least as that word is used today. Strictly speaking agnosticism is the "doctrine that only material things can be known, and hence knowledge of God, or for that matter anything supernatural, is impossible". There is no requirement that I am aware of for "logic or evidence"; indeed the doctine denies relevant logic or evidence is possible.

[Azy]

Whatever Huxley may or may not have in mind the belief in quotes pretty much currently defines an agnostic, at least as that word is used today. Strictly speaking agnosticism is the "doctrine that only material things can be known, and hence knowledge of God, or for that matter anything supernatural, is impossible". There is no requirement that I am aware of for "logic or evidence"; indeed the doctine denies relevant logic or evidence is possible.

How does one know things without logic or evidence in a natural world?

I thought I'd covered the unknowable thing with the line after the one you quoted. If God is defined as unknowable then yes it makes perfect sense for one to claim that God is unknowable, but it doesn't really say anything about the person making the claim. You could believe that God is supernatural and unknowable and be a theist by belief.

Abdu-l-Majeed: I'll listen to it all, but it's no good making up definitions and then breaking them down. Of course the denial that there is the possibility of a God is just as flimsy as belief in a God when it comes down to evidence. The only thing you should take from that is that both are equally as pointless.