What miracles did the prophet perform?

[jitty]

Did he perform any miricles at all?

Or was it all just about spreading the faith through conversion and the sword?

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
see the following links
http://www.geocities.com/islamimirac...f_muhammad.htm
http://www.geocities.com/islamimirac...ohammad_77.htm
http://www.geocities.com/islamimirac...l_miracles.htm
http://www.geocities.com/islamimirac...ammad_pbuh.htm
wasalam

[jitty]

Hmmm they dont look like very convincing miricles to me. Especially the first one. THe revaltion of the Koran being a miricle?

If I was a disbelievr during those times, it would take much more of a genuine mircle that those decribed in your link.

Anyways if these miricles were so great why the fascination to convert people to islam by the sword?

Surely if these miricles were so great conversion would not have been necessary and people would have converted by their own free will after seeing such greaaness.

[- Qatada -]

jitty, what makes you think people got converted by the sword? do you even know the reasons behind all them battles? who attacked first? if someone punched you in the face - would you want to defend yourself?

and yeh the qur'an is a miracle - if you think its not, then how come not even one letters been changed over 1400years? if you dont have any guidance and guidance comes to you, you know how to live your life to be succesful, that is a miracle.

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[jitty]

jitty, what makes you think people got converted by the sword? do you even know the reasons behind all them battles? who attacked first? if someone punched you in the face - would you want to defend yourself?

and yeh the qur'an is a miracle - if you think its not, then how come not even one letters been changed over 1400years? if you dont have any guidance and guidance comes to you, you know how to live your life to be succesful, that is a miracle.

Just because "not even one letters been changed over 1400years" doesnt make it a miracle does it?

Its not a question of who attacked who first is it? If the prophet was so great why did he resort to violence to cause people to convert? Surely if he was so great and a messenger from god he would have used more divine techniques rather than looting caravans.

[- Qatada -]

so you think a whole book that hasn't and couldn't ever be changed by man over 1400 years and never will be is not a miracle? if so then how come the bible and the torah have all been changed and even been destroyed yet the qur'an never has?

even if all the copies of the qur'an did get somehow destroyed - there are alot of muslims who have learnt it all off by heart, that even includes some members off this forum. so it can never get destroyed till the day of judgement, not just that, but it is a book of guidance and shows man how to be successful in this life and the hereafter. that is a true miracle, do you know any other book that can do this?


regarding your second question - yeh it is a matter of who attacked first, if someone attacks you - then you would do your best to defend yourself. a prophet is an example to the followers of that time, whereas our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam was an example for all of mankind, so if he never defended himself physically, then the future generations would be in despair because they surely wouldn't be able to do prophetic miracles, so they wouldn't have a example to follow to defend themselves.

i hope you can learn abit more about the life of our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam from the following link, just check his (peace be upon him)'s biography out and you may see the reasons behind all the things that happened.

http://www.islamicboard.com/prophet-...highlight=uhud

thanks :)

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Just because "not even one letters been changed over 1400years" doesnt make it a miracle does it?

Its not a question of who attacked who first is it? If the prophet was so great why did he resort to violence to cause people to convert? Surely if he was so great and a messenger from god he would have used more divine techniques rather than looting caravans.

:sl:

Srry but this funny. 1426 years and not the smallest change and your saying tahts not a miracle? Tell me, how many versions of the bible are there? Comparing it with the old and new testament of which there are over a hundred verions in existence, its quite a miricle that the Quran hasnt changed at all.

Your second accusation doesnt make sense at all. Tell me, if someone was to attack you on the grounds that they dont like what your saying, then would you not defend yourself? or would you just sit there and let them hurt you? it common sense. You would defend yourself.

:w:

[jitty]

so you think a whole book that hasn't and couldn't ever be changed by man over 1400 years and never will be is not a miracle? if so then how come the bible and the torah have all been changed and even been destroyed yet the qur'an never has?

even if all the copies of the qur'an did get somehow destroyed - there are alot of muslims who have learnt it all off by heart, that even includes some members off this forum. so it can never get destroyed till the day of judgement, not just that, but it is a book of guidance and shows man how to be successful in this life and the hereafter. that is a true miracle, do you know any other book that can do this?


thanks :)

Who says it "couldn't" be changed? If someone did try to change it they wouldnt be around for long would they? They'd be dead! Because it says in the Koran that those who challange it or try to change it should be killed!

So who in their right mind would even try to change it?

Therefore, no I would not classify this a miracle.

[jitty]

:sl:

Srry but this funny. 1426 years and not the smallest change and your saying tahts not a miracle? Tell me, how many versions of the bible are there? Comparing it with the old and new testament of which there are over a hundred verions in existence, its quite a miricle that the Quran hasnt changed at all.

Your second accusation doesnt make sense at all. Tell me, if someone was to attack you on the grounds that they dont like what your saying, then would you not defend yourself? or would you just sit there and let them hurt you? it common sense. You would defend yourself.

:w:

See my previous post. :peace:

[Ameeratul Layl]

Who says it "couldn't" be changed? If someone did try to change it they wouldnt be around for long would they? They'd be dead! Because it says in the Koran that those who challange it or try to change it should be killed!


:sl:
Ive never read that in the Quran. But what I HAVE READ and what is clearly stated in the Qurann is that Allah the Al Mighty will guard it from being changed.

So who in their right mind would even try to change it?
To deny that there is a God and that Islam isnt the true religion. There are many enemies of Islam.Therefore, no I would not classify this a miracle.

It is a miracle beacuse it is guarded by The Al Mighty and it is the Way Of Life.

Peace!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Who says it "couldn't" be changed? If someone did try to change it they wouldnt be around for long would they? They'd be dead! Because it says in the Koran that those who challange it or try to change it should be killed!

So who in their right mind would even try to change it?

Therefore, no I would not classify this a miracle.

That wouldnt stop people from trying. There have been those who even wrote other "new" ones, but it never spread, becuase it cant. The protection on the Quran is infinite, there is no way it will ever be changed. Simply it never will. Allah has even challenged you:

23. And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sûrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful.

24. But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

Therefore the protection on the Quran is a miracle.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

See my previous post. :peace:

:sl:

i saw it, and it does not refute me in any way. Look at this:

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-muhammad.html

[Abu Zakariya]

kitty

First of all, conversion through the sword is forbidden in islam. You can't force someone to become a muslim. The Prophet never fought so that he could force people to become muslims, the battles occured for a totally different reason.

Second of all, you claimed that the Qur'an says that if someone tries to change it, he or she should be killed.
I claim you are a liar. Where does the Qur'an say this?

And to finish of... The Prophet performed a lot of miracles. One example is the splitting of the moon.
Another is his night journey to Jerusalem.
Also, once water came out from his fingers so that the companions could drink the water.

To sum up:
* You have claimed that the Prophet converted people through the sword.
Lie #1
* You have claimed that the Qur'an orders the killing of those that try to change the Qur'an.
Lie #2

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello jitty,

Did he perform any miricles at all?

Yes.
http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=596
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...?articleid=106

Or was it all just about spreading the faith through conversion and the sword?

MYTH!
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=36
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544434

Regards

[czgibson]

Greetings,

1426 years and not the smallest change and your saying tahts not a miracle? Tell me, how many versions of the bible are there? Comparing it with the old and new testament of which there are over a hundred verions in existence, its quite a miricle that the Quran hasnt changed at all.

I believe that there is nothing miraculous about a text surviving unchanged for this amount of time.

Think of all the ancient writers like Herodotus, Hesiod, Plato and Aristotle whose works survive in their original forms. We even have some of Aristotle's lecture notes (such as his Politics) and papyri by Hesiod dating from the first century BCE. Are these miracles?

Peace

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
well said bro abu zakariya
and bro ansar jazakallah for the links
wasalam

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Greetings,


I believe that there is nothing miraculous about a text surviving unchanged for this amount of time.

Think of all the ancient writers like Herodotus, Hesiod, Plato and Aristotle whose works survive in their original forms. We even have some of Aristotle's lecture notes (such as his Politics) and papyri by Hesiod dating from the first century BCE. Are these miracles?

Peace

:sl:

Those arent religious texts which were revealed by God. The Quran is, and so were the original Testaments, and they were changed, and yet the Quran remains unchanged.

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
and the fact that the original quran is still intact and readable unlike these unreligious lectures of writers
wasalam

[jitty]

kitty

First of all, conversion through the sword is forbidden in islam. You can't force someone to become a muslim. The Prophet never fought so that he could force people to become muslims, the battles occured for a totally different reason.

So why did people all of a sudden decide to embrace Islam? What was the purpose of these wars? You are saying they were not necessary then?

He looted caravans, surely that is illegal. He commited crimes against helpless people. What they they do that was so wrong that they deserved to be looted?

[MetSudaisTwice]

So why did people all of a sudden decide to embrace Islam? What was the purpose of these wars? You are saying they were not necessary then?

He looted caravans, surely that is illegal. He commited crimes against helpless people. What they they do that was so wrong that they deserved to be looted?

salam
can you prove that? battles were taken place to protect the muslims from the kuffars, you won't just stand there and let a person rob you and your family? muslims had a right to fight against the kuffars to protect themselves and their religion
and your source of info for the looting is unreliable so i disregard that fact.
wasalam

[jitty]

"The present text of the Koran, which all Muslims accept as the only non-falsified holy book, was collected 15-20 years after the death of Muhammad in the time of the Caliph Uthman who ordered all previous collections to be burned. For researchers, it constitutes the first Arab written text to understand the Arab society in the time of Muhammad. Although Muslims consider the Koran as the most marvelous book, objectively speaking it remains one of the most disordered and most ambiguous books that ever existed."

The Koran was collected 15-20 years after the death of the prophet. What d muslims say to this? Surely its a tale of chinese whispers? Things changes, opinions, times, interpretations etc. Whats to say it really is the same? You believe it is, but it doesnt make it so.

[jitty]

salam
can you prove that? battles were taken place to protect the muslims from the kuffars, you won't just stand there and let a person rob you and your family? muslims had a right to fight against the kuffars to protect themselves and their religion
and your source of info for the looting is unreliable so i disregard that fact.
wasalam

Were no muslims not killed if they did not embrace Islam?

[- Qatada -]

Were no muslims not killed if they did not embrace Islam?

no - unless in war and that was only when the non muslims fought against the muslims in the first place. the muslims wanted to live peacefully but the non muslims kept fighting due to pride.

i dont understand why you keep creating your own fake theories - if you really wanted to know the facts, you would read the biography of our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam, but instead - you want to argue about something you have no knowledge about.

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
yes bro akhee that is true, please verify your so called theories and then put it accross here
thank you
wasalam

[jitty]

no - unless in war and that was only when the non muslims fought against the muslims in the first place. the muslims wanted to live peacefully but the non muslims kept fighting due to pride.

i dont understand why you keep creating your own fake theories - if you really wanted to know the facts, you would read the biography of our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam, but instead - you want to argue about something you have no knowledge about.

"Roughly speaking, the Prophet launched 80 campaigns during the ten years from his migration in A.D. 622 to his death in A.D. 632. Some of these campaigns were nothing more than reconnaissance missions."

http://www.--------------/restatement/20.htm

"reconnaissance missions" :mad:

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
is that written by Sir William Muir ?
that just says it all, doesn't it?
wasalam

[jitty]

Are you telling me Islam spread through all the Arab countries without wars being fought? People just embraced it and saw it greatness?

The wars continued with his "successors" (the "caliphs"): (Empires of Islam)

- The Successors of the Prophet: ("Caliph" means "successor"):
The Four Rightly Guided Caliphs: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali.

The world of Islam would expand far beyond the borders of the Arabian peninsula during their tenure— war after war, to the east into the Persian empire, north into Byzantine territory, and west across the face of northern Africa.
Umar continued the war of conquests begun by Abu Bakr. He pressed into the Persian Empire itself, but he also headed north into Syria and Byzantine territory and west into Egypt. By 640, Islamic military campaigns had brought all of Mesopotamia and most of Syria and Palestine under the control of Abu Bakr. Egypt was conquered by 642 and the Persian Empire by 643. These were some of the richest regions in the world guarded by powerful militaries—and they fell into Islamic hands in a heartbeat http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/CALIPH.HTM
Within a decade they took control of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, all Mesopotamia... capturing Damascus in 635, Jerusalem in 640, Cairo in 641, Alexandria in 642...

[- Qatada -]

jitty, you ever tried reading the biography of our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam from a muslim perspective? verily the muslims knew him (peace be upon him) the most, so why not try learning from the muslims.. instead you keep bringing up all this info. from non muslims.

[jitty]

Did his sucessors not continue war mongering to spread Islam to other countries?

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
i suggest 'jitty' that you read about this religion from our point of view, the muslims point of view, and then come back and ask again
untill then you don't have any knowledge of our religion and you are just reading it all off from unreliable and biased sites
wasalam

[jitty]

salam
yes bro akhee that is true, please verify your so called theories and then put it accross here
thank you
wasalam

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

[jitty]

salam
i suggest 'jitty' that you read about this religion from our point of view, the muslims point of view, and then come back and ask again
untill then you don't have any knowledge of our religion and you are just reading it all off from unreliable and biased sites
wasalam

But then that works both ways, does it not? Maybe you should also step outside the box. I have been in and out of the box, so I am replying in reply to the people inside the box having already been in the box.:peace:

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
what number hadith is it? and which site did you get this from?
wasalam

[jitty]

whoa!!!! talk about made up or what!!

So non believers did not have to pay tax?

[Sahabiyaat]

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

the word fighting in this context does not mean physical hitting or wars or torture or whatever gruesome things you might be speculating
fighting means standing your ground through peaceful preaching
fighting for your religion means upholding the teachings of Islam and peacefully explaining others to do the same

If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" okayyy..where did u get this from ?

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
what number hadith was this? and is that the full hadith?
wasalam

salam
you don't even mention who it was narrated by nor what number hadith it is? you are unreliable and have no knowledge in islam
wasalam

[jitty]

salam
you don't even mention who it was narrated by nor what number hadith it is? you are unreliable and have no knowledge in islam
wasalam

see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13

[MetSudaisTwice]

salam
hadith number? it isn't like a bible where you can navigate through page numbers, you shouldknow the number of the hadith from wherever you got it from
wasalam

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Since it is unfair if we say to you to read from a Muslims point of view, i suggest you simply read from an Unbiased source, one that doesnt say anything in favor of muslims and nothing in favor of non-muslims. This book is written by a Muslim, but it is not biased. I myself have read it and it is extraordinarily written. It is infact used as a textbook in many universites across the world:

(Click on the Picture)
:w:

[czgibson]

Greetings Ahmed,

Those arent religious texts which were revealed by God. The Quran is, and so were the original Testaments, and they were changed, and yet the Quran remains unchanged.

The Qur'an is the only text which is agreed by all of its adherents to be the direct word of god. Not all Jews believe the Torah has divine authorship, and I've never met a Christian who claimed divine authorship for the Bible, or even parts of it. So the Qur'an seems to be unique in having the deity attributed as its author by large numbers of people

Anyway, this is irrelevant. You stated in a post that the fact it had survived unchanged for 1426 years was miraculous. I was merely pointing out that this is not unusual, and far from miraculous. Whether the text is religious or not has no bearing on this particular point.

and the fact that the original quran is still intact and readable unlike these unreligious lectures of writers

The Qur'an is still intact, and so are the works of these ancient writers.

As for them being unreadable, that is a subjective judgment which has no real bearing on the discussion. I've read Plato, Aristotle and some of Herodotus, and I found them very interesting as a matter of fact - particularly Plato.

Incidentally, only Aristotle wrote lecture notes, as far as we know from surviving texts. Herodotus wrote history (invented it in fact), Plato wrote dialogues and Hesiod wrote poetry. The ancient Greeks would have considered the description "unreligious" quite insulting if applied to Hesiod.

Peace

[Shana524]

Jitty,
You keep asking the same questions. Read the links the brothers provided for you. It seems like you want us to give you answers which will reinforce your biased and imaginary theories. Obviously, such answers will contradict the truth regarding our beloved Prophet (saw).
And regarding miracles, Jesus (as) was known for the miracles he performed by Allah’s leave. But this didn’t stop people from disbelieving in him and trying to kill him.

[Abu Zakariya]

jitty

The reason for the battles was because muslims were being persecuted. Forcing someone to accept islam had nothing to do with it.

Here is one of the proofs that force conversions didn't take place:

Umm al-Muhajir said that she was one of the captives among the girl-slaves of Rome. Sayyidna Usmaan (Uthman) رضى الله عنه asked them to accept Islaam. She and one another woman were the only ones to accept it. (Source: Al Adab Al Mufrad, al-Bukhari)

You are, by the way, running away from my question. Where does it say in the Qur'an that the one that tries to change the Qur'an is to be killed?
Do you expect us to have any sense of respect towards you when you lie and try to run away?

As for the battles, here's an explanation: http://www.load-islam.com/c/Islam/JihadExplanation

And as for the hadith that you quoted and, in generall, jihad in islam and verses of the Qur'an and narrations of the Prophet pertaining to it, see this:
http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted

Please, read these texts so you can understand what jihad is, before you accuse the Prophet of forcing people to convert to islam.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

So non believers did not have to pay tax?

:sl:

yes they did have to pay taxes. Let me explain what they were. The muslims pay "Zakat" which goes toward the poor and needy of the Islamic State. The non muslims who are living in our state are under our rule, therefore they are under our protection. Therefore they pay the same amount that the muslims pay in Zakat, but the money they pay goes to the Government that is protecting them. That is called "Jizyah". The non-muslims are not being oppressed in anyway becuase the Muslims and non-muslims are paying the same amount of money, that is 2.5% of total saving in the year. Only difference is where the money is going.

Jizyah: a tax paid by non-Muslims living in a Muslim State. Since the non-Muslims are exempt from military service and taxes imposed on Muslims, they must pay this tax to compensate. It guarentees them security and protection. If the State cannot protect those who paid jizyah, then the amount they paid is returned to them.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/referenc...rm.JIZYAH.html

:w:

PS: This thread is for discusing teh miracles of the Prophet, Please do not bring up different topics in one. You are free to start another discussion thread for it though.

[Safa]

Hmmm they dont look like very convincing miricles to me. Especially the first one. THe revaltion of the Koran being a miricle?

Hello jitty,

A book of principles revealed in those times is considered a miracle.
Why you ask? Principles govern ways of life, form the structure of a civilazation you might say and offers guidance. Its not something anyone can write down. Let's see you write down a principle similar to an ayah of the Quran.

If I was a disbelievr during those times, it would take much more of a genuine mircle that those decribed in your link.

In those times people who were completely against the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and were willing to kill him. Yet some of them, when they read the Quran they immediately converted to Islam.

Anyways if these miricles were so great why the fascination to convert people to islam by the sword?

If you study the history of spreading of Islam, you will know that Islam did not literally spread by the sword. Meaning people were not forced to convert to Islam. Conversion happened eventually through consideration and understanding. Only the message of Islam spread with the help of Turkish merchants back then who travelled to all parts of the conquered lands.

Surely if these miricles were so great conversion would not have been necessary and people would have converted by their own free will after seeing such greaaness.

That's exactly what happened, people converted on their own free will and not being intimitated by the Muslim rulers. The non-Muslims back then were allowed to practice their religion. The Muslims rulers were just in treating them.

As for the link you provided, there is the section that talks about migration that I mentioned earlier,
As for the battles, here's an explanation: http://www.load-islam.com/c/Islam/JihadExplanation

These early Muslims sacrificed everything for Islam. They gave up their wealth, their homes and their families, sall for the purpose of practicing the path of submission ordained by the one and only God. This was a Jihad. It was a Jihad of sacrifice, not a military expedition of any sort.

Proof of this lies in the saying of another companion, Ali ibn Abi Talib. He said, "

May Allah grant mercy to Khabab, for he entered Islam willingly, migrated obediently, and lived making Jihad".

This saying shows us that the true nature of Jihad is one of a continuous struggle to uphold turth, justice, freedom and equality. A true Muslim "lives" making Jihad.

Those who suffer such persecution are advised to make Jihad by through migration.

4:97 Lo! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wronged themselves, (the angels) will ask: 'In what you were engaged?' They will way: 'We were oppressed in the land.' (The angels) will say: 'Was not Allah's earth spacious that you could have migrated therein?'

2:218 Lo! Those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape persecution) and STRIVE (JAHADU) in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy...

So we see a Jihad in bearing persecution, and in leaving behind one's wealth, family, and home through migration.

I have to run. I will comment on other things later.

[safwana]

did he perform any miricles at all?

the prophet (saw) did many miracles 1 was the splliting of the moon?

Or was it all just about spreading the faith through conversion and the sword?

islam did not spread by the sword if u read the history bhind it u will never find that the prophet (saw) or the companions they oppresesd the disbelievers.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

Misquote!

READ MY REFUTATION HERE

In your next post I will expect a response to the above.

Regards

[hidden_treasure]

Just because "not even one letters been changed over 1400years" doesnt make it a miracle does it?

Its not a question of who attacked who first is it? If the prophet was so great why did he resort to violence to cause people to convert? Surely if he was so great and a messenger from god he would have used more divine techniques rather than looting caravans.

ppl converted by the sword? if every person in this world followed the true teachings of our beloved prophet (pbuh)..the world would be a better place.

It is Allah (God) who guides people to the truth. He showed ppl the true teachings of Islam through his manners, patience, honesty, wisdom and truth.

He was a sincere and noble man.

Islam is the fastest growing religion today..and let me tell you, no one is holding a sword, or any other kind of weapon to our head...we simply believe in One God...and worshipping Him alone.

[Hisbul_Aziz]

Just because "not even one letters been changed over 1400years" doesnt make it a miracle does it?

Its not a question of who attacked who first is it? If the prophet was so great why did he resort to violence to cause people to convert? Surely if he was so great and a messenger from god he would have used more divine techniques rather than looting caravans.

If it's not a miracle lets see u get a revalation:w:

[hidden_treasure]

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

Isnt it amazing how ppl relate hadeeth or a verse from the quran and come up with there own interpretations??? Dear Jitty, we (ourselves) dare not interpret the Quran or hadeeth oursleves...we go to the scholars of Islam for that.