View Full Version : [Sectarian Debate] Al-Albani vs. a Jihadi

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-03-2005, 02:52 AM
The discussion starts With a supporter of The Islamic Jihad Organization (IJO) From the tape of Sheikh Naasir-Ud-Deen Al-Albaanee Rahimahullah "Munatharah ma' tantheem al-jihad al-islami." in two tapes
I.J.O Supporter: We have no doubt that you are one of the first of the scholars in the century to call for the return to the understanding of the Salaf. There is no doubt that the issue of jihad is an issue of disagreement among those who follow the Manhaj of the Salaf-us-Saalih. In the issue of jihad, we call the people to fight jihad under two conditions : The first is that it has to be done in pure intention for the sake of Allah. The second that it has to be under the banner of Islam. However we hear from the devout Muslim youth other conditions that they narrate from you which we never heard about in Ahaadeeth, such conditions are Islamic knowledge (or Education and purification - Tasfiyah wa Tarbiyah) and having Khalifa or an Islamic state. These conditions we hear a lot from the brothers who follow manhaj as-Salaf, and I am among those who follow this manhaj INSHAALLAH. My Question is : do these conditions have any reference in the Sunnah ? or are they only an ijtihaad regarding the current situation and\or conditions? and before that do you really call for these conditions?
Al-Albaanee: First of all, we agreed to discuss this issue with you to find out about your Da'waah.
I.J.O Supporter: I told you about it.
Al-Albaanee: Then, explain your da'wa. Your questions are premature now, I want to understand what your da'wa is for.
I.J.O Supporter: My da'wa is clear, to do jihad according to the conditions I mentioned. Intention because the Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "whoever fought for the word of Allah to be supreme, (that is) FISABILILLAH (for the sake of Allah)". Under the banner of Islam because the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "whoever fought for the sake of 'asabiyah (partisanship) supporting one group or fighting another and died, he died the death of Jaahiliyyah (days of Ignorance)."
Al-Albaanee: OK. Do we need an Ameer to do jihad ?
I.J.O Supporter: No.
Al-Albaanee: So we do jihad in a big disorganized mess ?
(Arabic : Fawda)
I.J.O Supporter: No ... but
Al-Albaanee: Also, your first condition which is the pure intention. This condition is for every worship, so we are done with it. Your second, under the Islamic banner, do you imagine jihad without an Ameer? How can we have an Islamic banner without an Ameer for that banner?
I.J.O Supporter: We can do jihad in a manner like: if a Muslim goes to a kafir enemy leader, and kills him.
Al-Albaanee: But we were talking about the jihad of a group. Jihad under an Islamic banner is it the jihad of one person or the jihad of a group? Also, a group of Muslims that leave for jihad, do they not need an Ameer to lead them?
I.J.O Supporter: Yes, yes of course. A group of Muslims who travel or leave for jihad need an Ameer. and If a group of Muslims of more than 3 leave for Jihad they need an Ameer.
Al-Albaanee: Then why did you not mention this as a condition?
I.J.O Supporter: Well, Okay, let us make it a third condition.
Al-Albaanee: Okay for the Fard 'Ayn jihad (compulsory on all Muslims), do we need a jama'a (group) for it or can it be done as individuals ?
I.J.O Supporter: Either case.
Al-Albaanee: This is not an answer.
I.J.O Supporter: Why is that?
Al-Albaanee: We said that jihad is two kinds : Fard Kifayah, which only a small group of Muslims can do, and if a group do it, the rest of the Muslims are not questioned about it. This kind of jihad individuals can do on their own. Fard 'Ayn which ALL the Muslims have to do it in a specific area. To do this kind of jihad, do we not need an Ameer to lead the Muslims?
I.J.O Supporter: Yes we need an Ameer for this group if it fights or if it doesn't fight.
Al-Albaanee: Good Good, we return to say Ameer to mean a Khalifah of the Muslims.
I.J.O Supporter: No not a Khalifah.
Al-Albaanee: Why? is it dangerous to say Khalifah?
I.J.O Supporter: Yes of course, because this means we want to reap the fruit before we plant the trees.
Al-Albaanee: This is what I see you doing. You say you want an Ameer for the whole group of Muslims to lead jihad and at the same time you don't want him to be the Khalifah! Is this what you want?
I.J.O Supporter: Well, yes.
Al-Albaanee: !! Okay then where is this Ameer? and who is this Ameer? and can we have more than one Ameer? We are now on the condition we agreed on before, which is that we need an Ameer, and you claim that we need an Ameer to lead this group jihad without him being the Khalifah. Which do we get first, the Ameer or the jihad? this is like asking do we pray before the adhan or after. which comes first ?
[after a while of arguing around]
I.J.O Supporter: Okay we do need an Ameer for the Fard 'ayn jihad before we start the jihad.
Al-Albaanee: Excellent. Then do we call to have an Ameer first, or do we call for the jihad first.
I.J.O Supporter: Well, both at the same time.
Al-Albaanee: Lahawlawalaquwataillabillaah (There is no might nor power except with Allah). We just agreed that we need an Ameer for Jihad al-'Ayn before we start the jihad. The next question is do we call for an Ameer First or do we call for the jihad first? This group, all kinds of groups need an Ameer. To call for this kind of jihad we do need an Ameer first, the Ameer will call for the Mujahideen and send those here and those there.
I.J.O Supporter: Okay, what if a group of Muslims read in the Qur'an about jihad and want to do jihad, so they gather for jihad and then appoint an Ameer on them.
Al-Albaanee: Ya akhi what you are describing is a case of jihad Fard al-Kifayah. For Fard Al-Kifayah it is okay for a small group to gather and go do jihad. For Fard al-'ayn we need the whole group of Muslims. How can we have the whole group of Muslims if we don't have a unified leadership for this kind for jihad? This kind of Ameer, I do not see any of the Mujahideen calling for it. Why do you not call for that Ameer?
I.J.O Supporter: Okay then let us call for this Ameer.
Al-Albaanee : OK, then what are the characteristics for this Ameer, in your opinion?
I.J.O Supporter: [some characteristics]
Al-Albaanee: And do you see an Ameer with these qualities ?
I.J.O Supporter: Yes, many.
Al-Albaanee: Where?
I.J.O Supporter: Everywhere.
Al-Albaanee: We said that we need an Ameer for the whole group, i.e. for all the Muslims. How can we have more than one Ameer for all the Muslims?
I.J.O Supporter: ... [arguing around]
Al-Albaanee: Do you know what does the Ahaadeeth of Huthayfah bin yaman (radiallaahu'anhu) [fa in lam yakun lahom jama'a wa la imam (If there is no jamah and no leader)] say about this, does it lead to the conclusion that this jihad needs a Khalifah, or otherwise?
Ahaadeeth narrated in Bukhaaree , Kitaab Al-Manaqib, Ahaadeeth #3338 Ahaadeeth says: When people were asking the Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) about the goodness, I was asking about the evil in fear that it may get to me, so I asked "O prophet of Allah (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) we were in Jaahiliyyah then Allah brought this goodness, will there be any evil after it?" The Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "yes there will", I said "will there be goodness after it?" he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "yes and it has some impurities" I asked "and what are its impurities?" he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "People who guide without my guidance, you know of them and deny." I asked "Is there evil after this goodness?" he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "Yes, there will be preachers who preach for the doors of hellfire, whoever answers them they throw him into hellfire" so I said "O Prophet of Allah (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) ,describe them for us" he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "they are from you and they speak from our language." so I asked "what should I do if I witness that?" the prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "stick with the group of Muslims and their leader" I asked "what if they had no leader?" he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said "if they had no leader or imam, then leave all these groups even if you had to bite on a tree until your death."
I.J.O Supporter: What does this Ahaadeeth have to do with our discussion?
Al-Albaanee: Did Hudhayfah (radiallaahu'anhu) not ask the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) about what to do when there are callers to the doors of hellfire? The Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewa- sallaam) answered that he must stick to the imam of the jama'a, if there is no imam then let him stay away from every jama'a. Do these conditions apply to today? Do we not have people who claim to be Muslims yet they are callers to hellfire? Is Khalifah not missing?
I.J.O Supporter: I prefer to to discuss other Ahaadeeths, like "there is still a portion of my nation fighting for the right, they do not care whoever disagreed with them or let them down."
Al-Albaanee: What does this have to do with our discussion? We are not in disagreement about calling for jihad.
We are in agreement that jihad is a an obligation (Fard 'Ayn) today, what we disagree on is that do we need a Khalifah first or not.
What you quoted adds nothing to the argument. We both agree that jihad is a Fard. Do you understand? What we disagree about is the issue of needing a Khalifah to start this jihad.
I.J.O Supporter: OK.
Al-Albaanee: Notice that the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) advised Hudhayfah (radiallaahu'anhu) to stick with the imam of the Muslims and their main group. You have that all the conditions in that Ahaadeeth are true today ..
I.J.O Supporter: True ...
Al-Albaani: and the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said if the Muslims had no imam or jama'a, to leave all the groups. so what do you do now?
I.J.O Supporter: Well, we try to look for the group of Muslims and find an imam for it.
Al-Albaanee: This is what we call for! jihad is fard, but right now is not the time for it. We need the imam first and that the Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) ordered you to follow and stick with his group.
I.J.O Supporter: How do we know that we cannot do jihad until we get this Khalifah that is indeed necessary?
Al-Albaanee: The Ahaadeeth says if the Muslims had no one leader then leave all the groups. And we already said before that the jihad for fard al-'ayn has to be done the jama'a led by a leader to all the Muslims, an Ameer. If the Muslims had no leader they stay away from ALL groups. How can they do group jihad if they should at the same time stay away from all groups??? you are contradicting what you already agreed on. Islamically we have only one banner, one group and one leader. We do need this one group to start the fard al-'Ayn jihad.
I.J.O Supporter: ...
Al-Albaanee: Now what I want to do is prove to you that this Ameer of the fard 'Ayn jihad must be a Khalifah, not just an Ameer. The Dalleel (proof) is the Ahaadeeth of Hudhayfah (radiallaahu'anhu) again. Sometimes as you know the evidence is clear and sometimes not very, (qat'i al-dilalah, or thahiri al-dilalah). Let us consider an example of a Sheikh advising his student on the guidelines of this hadith. The student asks his Sheikh what to do to to avoid the evil, the Sheikh says stick with the imam of the Muslims. The student answers that the Muslims have no khalifah, so the Sheikh advises him to stay away from all the groups. This student is obedient to his Sheikh and this Sheikh that is following his Prophet (salallaahu'alay- heewasallaam). What would this student do? He would go ahead living his life in a valley looking after his sheep or whatever, worshiping Allah. Where is jihad? If it was a Waajib on this Muslim to fight then the Sheikh would tell him to fight, and not to stay away from every group. Is there a jihad here? As long as there is no imam then there is no jihad. This evidence is Qat'i al-Dilalah (clear evidence). Jihaad must be in the supervision of an Imam, or Khalifah. But let me tell you about some thing that troubles many of the students of knowledge, that there are many groups that fight like the Afghan or those in Syria a decade or more ago. Those people, if they want to fight they must be under the leadership of one Ameer, that doesn't mean that Syrians fight in Afghanistan and Afghanis in Syria, no. It means that both fighting groups must be under the supervision on one Imam and one khalifah. If there was no one imam and no one jama'a (not in the meaning of two fighting groups, but in the meaning of one group in their unity of leadership, but could be more than one group of fighters each fighting in a part of the Islamic world), both groups would be operating on their own.
To do this fard 'ayn jihad, the Waajib of the Muslims is unity, the unity needs a Khalifah. To establish this thing, we must start with education and purification (Tasfiyah wa Tarbiyah). We can not start with jihad right now.
You say that there are many groups for jihad, yet all these groups are in disagreement and as Allah said in Qur'aan "wa la tanaza'o fa tafshalu wa thahaba ree'okum". We are today many like the flowing of the river, what you want to do is give legitimacy to these ghutha' groups.
I.J.O Supporter: Okay then how does this education and purification (Tasfiyah wa Tarbiyah) lead to Khalifah?
Al-Albaanee: History repeats itself. Everybody claims that the prophet is their role model. Our Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) spent the first half of his message in making da'wa, and he started with it not with jihad. The prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) first raised his companions with Islamic education like he educated them to say the word of truth and not be afraid of it, he (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) also taught them the Islamic teachings. We know that our Islam today is not like it was when Allah revealed "today I have completed your religion", many things have indeed been added to Islam, do you not agree?
I.J.O Supporter: Yes I fully agree. but there are many Qur'ânic proofs that jihad is an important obligation!
Al-Albaanee: I do not deny that, but ya akhi the question is "where do we start from?" My da'wa is :
To do this jihad we need an Ameer, to get this Ameer we must work on the Tasfiyah and Tarbiyah. Think about this on your own, by considering the Ahaadeeth of Hudhayfah (radiallaahu'anhu) which do we need first jihad or the Ameer?
I.J.O Supporter: Has anyone before called for Tasfiyah and Tarbiyah before jihad?
Al-Albaanee: May Allah be merciful with you. Tell me when did the Muslims not have a unified Khalifah?
I.J.O Supporter: What about the time of Ali (radiallaahu'anhu) and Mu'awiyah (radiallaahu'anhu)?
Al-Albaanee: You mean you have a doubt that Ali (radiallaahu'anhu) was right, and that Mu'awiyah (radiallaahu'anhu) was wrong?
I.J.O Supporter: No ... but
Al-Albaanee: No "but"s. How many khulafaa were there?
[after a while of discussion]
I.J.O Supporter: OK, OK, one.
A listener: To be frank my Sheikh, this discussion is going nowhere. If one does not make his intention and mind pure he will never understand.
Al-Albaani: This is indeed a good advice. We live in an age where one of the fatal characters is spread, which is everyone liking his own opinion. Today everybody who reads a bit of Qur'aan or learns a bit of Ahkaam (rulings) and Ahaadeeths, he thinks he is something in 'ilm (knowledge) although he can not read the Ahaadeeths without errors, and then he wants to argue everything he sees ...
I.J.O Supporter: .. trying to interrupt ...
Al-Albaani: The time for discussion is over. I will take the advice of the brother.
My advice to the students of knowledge is not proceed to preach to the people something that may lead them to great misguidance (Dalal). He should check with the people of knowledge before he jumps to conclusions.
It is one of the disasters of the Muslim youth today to quickly adopt opinions without looking into the opinions of the Salaf and khalaf with regards to these issues.
I advise Muslims to research this especially in the issues that concern the group such as Jihad.
Jihad is, without doubt the pride of Islam and of the basis of Islam (arkaan - basis or pillar) and the verses and Ahaadeeths regards this are known to everybody Insha'allah.
But this jihad has its conditions and introductions.
From its basic conditions that the group that does it must be in agreement to return to Qur'ân and Sunnah in their rulings (Ahkaam).
This in fact needs a great time of education, purification and of scholars and preachers, like the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewa- sallaam) educated his companions. We notice that Mujaahids call for whatever of the Muslims to join in the fight, and when they go to fight they find disagreement among themselves in matters of their faith and the basics of Islam.
How do these people get ready to go for Jihad when they are yet to understand what is obligatory on them of Aqeedah ??!!
This my brother, leads us to understand that Jihad is not to be discussed, but we must discuss its pre-requisites.
The first introduction is, as we attest before Allah, the Khalifah.
Because if the Ameers exist today and the bond I talked about (common understanding of Islam) does not exist among them then they will turn against one another and fight each other.
They must be all for one methodology and one understanding (the Manhaj of the Salaf).
I therefore advise every Muslim to work by the Ahaadeeth of Ibn al-yaman (radiallaahu'anhu), leave all the groups and stay by yourself.
And this is not to mean to live in isolation, no it means not to join one or another group.
You can do yourself and all the Muslims good with your knowledge.
This is a reminder, and the reminder benefits the believers.

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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-09-2005, 09:26 PM
Brothers and Sisters, please read these debates. Insha'Allah you will find them very useful.


Umm Yoosuf
03-13-2007, 05:51 PM

Great post. Everyone should have a read :)

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