Ansar Al-'Adl
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You can post your opinions here and insha'Allah I will add some articles.
Islam and Democracy: Compatible or Incompatible?
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You can post your opinions here and insha'Allah I will add some articles.
aamirsaab
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Kebabistan
ah interesting topic.
hmmm... where should i start.
*thinks 4 a moment*
got it.
Islam and democracy huh?
well, first off u cant really have both of them - well u can but u cant. e.g.
say i go and make this new country up...say next to austrlia
lets call it kebab land for now
Now, i am the president of that island. so i make the rules - one man government.
K, so i take islam as THE main government.
major rules:
hijab as compulsory - as it is written in the quran
namaaz ( 5 daily prayers) - also compulsory
Charity
etc
etc
Now, here coems the hard part. How do i implement these strategies effectively
i could make the law so that those who do not follow the rules are ,say, fined
But, will this encourage the people to follow the rules - most likely no
Option 2: i heavily enforce the rules - those who disobey are severly punished i.e beaten up. now this, clearly is barbaric - HOWEVER, majority of the people would listen because of fear of punishment.
So far, in kebabistan, what has happend is this:
1) i have kept the religion going
2) people will obey the rules set due to fear of punishment
3) i have done my duty as a muslim to preach to others - but have i really done that - or- have i enforced the rules too harshly. are people just obeying because of the fear of MY rules...or are they following islam? are people obeying my commands rather than Allah's?
should i therefore use a different policy in kebabistan?
or should it remain as it is?
ah interesting topic.
hmmm... where should i start.
*thinks 4 a moment*
got it.
Islam and democracy huh?
well, first off u cant really have both of them - well u can but u cant. e.g.
say i go and make this new country up...say next to austrlia
lets call it kebab land for now
Now, i am the president of that island. so i make the rules - one man government.
K, so i take islam as THE main government.
major rules:
hijab as compulsory - as it is written in the quran
namaaz ( 5 daily prayers) - also compulsory
Charity
etc
etc
Now, here coems the hard part. How do i implement these strategies effectively
i could make the law so that those who do not follow the rules are ,say, fined
But, will this encourage the people to follow the rules - most likely no
Option 2: i heavily enforce the rules - those who disobey are severly punished i.e beaten up. now this, clearly is barbaric - HOWEVER, majority of the people would listen because of fear of punishment.
So far, in kebabistan, what has happend is this:
1) i have kept the religion going
2) people will obey the rules set due to fear of punishment
3) i have done my duty as a muslim to preach to others - but have i really done that - or- have i enforced the rules too harshly. are people just obeying because of the fear of MY rules...or are they following islam? are people obeying my commands rather than Allah's?
should i therefore use a different policy in kebabistan?
or should it remain as it is?
Gardens & Rivers
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Peace be upon you...
Why is Islam against democracy, or is it? Or...what is your idea of democracy that you don't like it? ???
Gardens & Rivers
Why is Islam against democracy, or is it? Or...what is your idea of democracy that you don't like it? ???
Gardens & Rivers
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Okay...time for me to post articles 
For more info: http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/topic08.shtml
Forming an Islamic Democracy
By Sohaib N. Sultan*
27/09/2004
Before we explore the relationship between Islam and democracy, it is important to understand what exactly the idea of democracy entails because too often the notion of democracy is confused with Western culture and society. As such, analysts often dismiss the compatibility of Islam with democracy, arguing that Islam and secularism are opposite forces, that rule of God is not compatible with rule of man, and that Muslim culture lacks the liberal social attitudes necessary for free, democratic societies to exist.
Arguments that dismiss the notion of an Islamic democracy presuppose that democracy is a non-fluid system that only embraces a particular type of social and cultural vision. However, democracy, like Islam, is a fluid system that has the ability to adapt to various societies and cultures because it is built on certain universally acceptable ideas.
So, what is democracy? In its dictionary definition, democracy is “government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.” As such, elections that express popular consent, freedom of political and social mobilization, and equality of all citizens under the rule of law become essential components of a healthy, functioning democracy.
Implementing the laws of God necessitates the role of man who is given the position of God’s vicegerent or representative on earth.
Those who argue against the compatibility of Islam and democracy usually begin by saying that a democracy gives sovereignty or power of rule to the people, while Islam gives sovereignty or power of rule to God, which would not allow for a “government by the people.” In other words, these skeptics believe that the opposite of democracy in relation to a religious political system must be theocracy, meaning the rule of God on earth by a religious authority or class. However, this argument presupposes that there is a single religious authority or class within the Islamic tradition that has special access to God’s will and therefore has the right and power to impose divine will on the land. This is where the argument fails in relation to Islam, because the Islamic tradition, at least in the majority Sunni teaching, does not recognize a pope-like figure, nor does it preach the establishment of a religious class that has special access to divine will.
In fact, to the contrary, it can be argued that the Qur’an warns against the establishment of a religious class. The Qur’an says that past religious communities took their religious leaders [for their lords beside God]* (At-Tawbah 9:31) and accuses many in the religious class of Jews and Christians of stealing people’s wealth and turning people [away from the path of God] (At-Tawbah 9:34). Furthermore, Muslims believe that after Prophet Muhammad there is no one who has direct access to God’s will, and therefore no one person or group has the legitimacy or authority to claim a pope- or priesthood-like status in the Muslim community. As such, Islam’s political system is not a theocracy.
There is no doubt that an Islamic political system would be bound by the laws, principles, and spirit of the Qur’an and Sunnah, which would serve as the overarching sources of a constitution in an Islamic state. Furthermore, violating or going directly against any sacred teaching of Islam could not be tolerated in an Islamic political system, for doing so would be going against the sources of the constitution. So, in this sense God is recognized as the sole giver of law.
The Qur’an insists on mutual consultation in deciding communal affairs which includes choosing leaders to represent and govern on the community’s behalf.
However, implementing the laws of God, as articulated in the Qur’an and Sunnah, necessitates the role of man who is given the position of God’s vicegerent or representative on earth (Al-Baqarah 2:30) because of his superior intellect, ability to acquire knowledge, and ability to exercise free will. All of these God-given qualities enable man not only to implement sacred law, but also to interpret sacred law and derive from sacred sources the wise principles that form the basis of new laws needed for an ever-changing world with new ethical and moral complexities.
As such, the Islamic political system does not entail a struggle or competition for power between God and man. Rather, God and man function with a unified purpose to bring social benefit and civilization-enhancing laws to the world. Simply put, God is the giver of law in Whom sole authority rests, while man, as a collective body, interprets and implements these laws as God’s representatives on earth. As such, the democratic ideal of a “government by the people” is compatible with the Qur’anic understanding of man’s role on earth, and therefore compatible with the notion of an Islamic democracy. It is important to remember, however, that just as man’s ability to govern is shaped and limited by the founding constitution in a secular democracy, the sacred sources of Islam shape and limit man’s ability to govern within an Islamic democracy.
Electing Leaders
Now, if a government is by the people, then it only makes sense that the people choose or elect those who will govern on their behalf. Is the notion of elections compatible with Islamic teachings? The answer to this question can be found in the Qur’an’s insistence on using shura, or mutual consultation, in deciding communal affairs (Aal `Imran 3:159, Ash-Shura 42:38), which would include choosing, or if you will, electing leaders to represent and govern on the community’s behalf.
Interestingly, a model exists in Islamic history for Muslims in using mutual consultation as a process of selecting a new leader. When Prophet Muhammad was on his deathbed, many of his Companions urged him to name a successor who would lead the community, but the Prophet refused to do so—a clear indication that he wanted the next leader to be chosen through mutual consultation rather than be imposed upon the community. As such, when the Prophet passed away, the most pressing issue for the community was to choose its next leader. Three Companions were nominated to take the post of khalifah (caliph) and in the end, the Prophet’s closest Companion, Abu Bakr, was chosen to be the community’s new leader. Abu Bakr and his three successors, known collectively as the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs, were also chosen in a similar fashion that reflected popular consent. So the idea of choosing a leader in accordance with popular will is certainly not a new idea in the Islamic tradition. As such, the notion of elections is compatible with the idea of an Islamic democracy.
Accountability of Government
Human equality in society and before God is an essential teaching of the Qur’an and a core characteristic of an Islamic ethos.
However, electing leaders to govern is not enough. Holding those who govern accountable is also an essential principle of democracy if government by the people is to work. First, the Qur’anic teaching of mutual consultation does not end in selecting leaders but forms an essential part of governance in which leaders must conduct their affairs in a non-dictatorial manner. Second, leaders are not left to govern based on their own whims and desires; rather their governance must be in accordance with the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah (An-Nisaa’ 4:59), which form the Islamic State’s constitution. Third, the Qur’an mandates that leaders pay back their trusts to those entitled to it (An-Nisaa’ 4:58), meaning that leaders are responsible to the citizens of the land.
Both Abu Bakr and `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, second caliph of Islam, reflected this notion of accountability in their inaugural addresses when they said to their community, “If I follow the right path, follow me. If I deviate from the right path, correct me so that we are not led astray.” So certainly the role and responsibility of the people within a society extends far beyond choosing a leader within the Islamic political system.
Equality and Freedom
The final two pieces to the puzzle of forming a functioning democracy are the essential notions of equality and freedom in society, without which a people cannot truly govern themselves.
The Qur’an says what means [O humankind, we created you from a male and a female, and We made you races and tribes for you to get to know each other] (Al-Hujurat 49:13). In another verse, the Qur’an says what means [And among the signs of God is the … diversity of your languages and colors] (Ar-Rum 30:22). These verses and many more make human equality in society and before God an essential teaching of the Qur’an and a core characteristic of an Islamic ethos. As such, any Islamic political system would necessitate the respect for equality and diversity of all men and women.
We are all born free, which makes freedom our destiny. This is reflected strongly in the Qur’an’s understanding of human free will, which distinguishes man from the rest of God’s creation. The notion of free will necessitates freedom of choice, and this is why the Qur’an so emphatically states [There is no compulsion in religion] (Al-Baqarah 2:256). The Qur’an also encourages the free formation and mobilization of social and political groups when it says [And let there be a people among you who invite to good and enjoin what is fair, and forbid what is wrong] (Aal `Imran 3:104).
Of course freedom, just as in any other functioning society, is not absolute. There are moral, ethical, and spiritual guidelines for what a society can and cannot tolerate as part of freedom. Islam does teach a rather conservative morality on most issues ranging from modesty laws to business transaction laws, especially in comparison to Western cultural trends. But if the universality of democracy and its fluidity are true, then it must be able embrace Islam’s value system, which itself is based on universal truths and social benefit for humanity.
** Sohaib Sultan is the author of The Koran for Dummies.
For more info: http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/topic08.shtml
Forming an Islamic Democracy
By Sohaib N. Sultan*
27/09/2004
Before we explore the relationship between Islam and democracy, it is important to understand what exactly the idea of democracy entails because too often the notion of democracy is confused with Western culture and society. As such, analysts often dismiss the compatibility of Islam with democracy, arguing that Islam and secularism are opposite forces, that rule of God is not compatible with rule of man, and that Muslim culture lacks the liberal social attitudes necessary for free, democratic societies to exist.
Arguments that dismiss the notion of an Islamic democracy presuppose that democracy is a non-fluid system that only embraces a particular type of social and cultural vision. However, democracy, like Islam, is a fluid system that has the ability to adapt to various societies and cultures because it is built on certain universally acceptable ideas.
So, what is democracy? In its dictionary definition, democracy is “government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.” As such, elections that express popular consent, freedom of political and social mobilization, and equality of all citizens under the rule of law become essential components of a healthy, functioning democracy.
Implementing the laws of God necessitates the role of man who is given the position of God’s vicegerent or representative on earth.
Those who argue against the compatibility of Islam and democracy usually begin by saying that a democracy gives sovereignty or power of rule to the people, while Islam gives sovereignty or power of rule to God, which would not allow for a “government by the people.” In other words, these skeptics believe that the opposite of democracy in relation to a religious political system must be theocracy, meaning the rule of God on earth by a religious authority or class. However, this argument presupposes that there is a single religious authority or class within the Islamic tradition that has special access to God’s will and therefore has the right and power to impose divine will on the land. This is where the argument fails in relation to Islam, because the Islamic tradition, at least in the majority Sunni teaching, does not recognize a pope-like figure, nor does it preach the establishment of a religious class that has special access to divine will.
In fact, to the contrary, it can be argued that the Qur’an warns against the establishment of a religious class. The Qur’an says that past religious communities took their religious leaders [for their lords beside God]* (At-Tawbah 9:31) and accuses many in the religious class of Jews and Christians of stealing people’s wealth and turning people [away from the path of God] (At-Tawbah 9:34). Furthermore, Muslims believe that after Prophet Muhammad there is no one who has direct access to God’s will, and therefore no one person or group has the legitimacy or authority to claim a pope- or priesthood-like status in the Muslim community. As such, Islam’s political system is not a theocracy.
There is no doubt that an Islamic political system would be bound by the laws, principles, and spirit of the Qur’an and Sunnah, which would serve as the overarching sources of a constitution in an Islamic state. Furthermore, violating or going directly against any sacred teaching of Islam could not be tolerated in an Islamic political system, for doing so would be going against the sources of the constitution. So, in this sense God is recognized as the sole giver of law.
The Qur’an insists on mutual consultation in deciding communal affairs which includes choosing leaders to represent and govern on the community’s behalf.
However, implementing the laws of God, as articulated in the Qur’an and Sunnah, necessitates the role of man who is given the position of God’s vicegerent or representative on earth (Al-Baqarah 2:30) because of his superior intellect, ability to acquire knowledge, and ability to exercise free will. All of these God-given qualities enable man not only to implement sacred law, but also to interpret sacred law and derive from sacred sources the wise principles that form the basis of new laws needed for an ever-changing world with new ethical and moral complexities.
As such, the Islamic political system does not entail a struggle or competition for power between God and man. Rather, God and man function with a unified purpose to bring social benefit and civilization-enhancing laws to the world. Simply put, God is the giver of law in Whom sole authority rests, while man, as a collective body, interprets and implements these laws as God’s representatives on earth. As such, the democratic ideal of a “government by the people” is compatible with the Qur’anic understanding of man’s role on earth, and therefore compatible with the notion of an Islamic democracy. It is important to remember, however, that just as man’s ability to govern is shaped and limited by the founding constitution in a secular democracy, the sacred sources of Islam shape and limit man’s ability to govern within an Islamic democracy.
Electing Leaders
Now, if a government is by the people, then it only makes sense that the people choose or elect those who will govern on their behalf. Is the notion of elections compatible with Islamic teachings? The answer to this question can be found in the Qur’an’s insistence on using shura, or mutual consultation, in deciding communal affairs (Aal `Imran 3:159, Ash-Shura 42:38), which would include choosing, or if you will, electing leaders to represent and govern on the community’s behalf.
Interestingly, a model exists in Islamic history for Muslims in using mutual consultation as a process of selecting a new leader. When Prophet Muhammad was on his deathbed, many of his Companions urged him to name a successor who would lead the community, but the Prophet refused to do so—a clear indication that he wanted the next leader to be chosen through mutual consultation rather than be imposed upon the community. As such, when the Prophet passed away, the most pressing issue for the community was to choose its next leader. Three Companions were nominated to take the post of khalifah (caliph) and in the end, the Prophet’s closest Companion, Abu Bakr, was chosen to be the community’s new leader. Abu Bakr and his three successors, known collectively as the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs, were also chosen in a similar fashion that reflected popular consent. So the idea of choosing a leader in accordance with popular will is certainly not a new idea in the Islamic tradition. As such, the notion of elections is compatible with the idea of an Islamic democracy.
Accountability of Government
Human equality in society and before God is an essential teaching of the Qur’an and a core characteristic of an Islamic ethos.
However, electing leaders to govern is not enough. Holding those who govern accountable is also an essential principle of democracy if government by the people is to work. First, the Qur’anic teaching of mutual consultation does not end in selecting leaders but forms an essential part of governance in which leaders must conduct their affairs in a non-dictatorial manner. Second, leaders are not left to govern based on their own whims and desires; rather their governance must be in accordance with the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah (An-Nisaa’ 4:59), which form the Islamic State’s constitution. Third, the Qur’an mandates that leaders pay back their trusts to those entitled to it (An-Nisaa’ 4:58), meaning that leaders are responsible to the citizens of the land.
Both Abu Bakr and `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, second caliph of Islam, reflected this notion of accountability in their inaugural addresses when they said to their community, “If I follow the right path, follow me. If I deviate from the right path, correct me so that we are not led astray.” So certainly the role and responsibility of the people within a society extends far beyond choosing a leader within the Islamic political system.
Equality and Freedom
The final two pieces to the puzzle of forming a functioning democracy are the essential notions of equality and freedom in society, without which a people cannot truly govern themselves.
The Qur’an says what means [O humankind, we created you from a male and a female, and We made you races and tribes for you to get to know each other] (Al-Hujurat 49:13). In another verse, the Qur’an says what means [And among the signs of God is the … diversity of your languages and colors] (Ar-Rum 30:22). These verses and many more make human equality in society and before God an essential teaching of the Qur’an and a core characteristic of an Islamic ethos. As such, any Islamic political system would necessitate the respect for equality and diversity of all men and women.
We are all born free, which makes freedom our destiny. This is reflected strongly in the Qur’an’s understanding of human free will, which distinguishes man from the rest of God’s creation. The notion of free will necessitates freedom of choice, and this is why the Qur’an so emphatically states [There is no compulsion in religion] (Al-Baqarah 2:256). The Qur’an also encourages the free formation and mobilization of social and political groups when it says [And let there be a people among you who invite to good and enjoin what is fair, and forbid what is wrong] (Aal `Imran 3:104).
Of course freedom, just as in any other functioning society, is not absolute. There are moral, ethical, and spiritual guidelines for what a society can and cannot tolerate as part of freedom. Islam does teach a rather conservative morality on most issues ranging from modesty laws to business transaction laws, especially in comparison to Western cultural trends. But if the universality of democracy and its fluidity are true, then it must be able embrace Islam’s value system, which itself is based on universal truths and social benefit for humanity.
** Sohaib Sultan is the author of The Koran for Dummies.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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In short, Islam is not against democracy at all. Many muslims and non-muslims alike would be surprised to find that Islam and democracy have much in commonm and are founded on a common set of values. The concept of Shura in Islam is a democratic concept.
There is only ONE difference between Islam and democracy. While both implement laws, the laws of a democracy are subject to change with the societal norms, while the laws of Islam are permanent and divine in origin.
For more info:
http://www.beconvinced.com
There is only ONE difference between Islam and democracy. While both implement laws, the laws of a democracy are subject to change with the societal norms, while the laws of Islam are permanent and divine in origin.
For more info:
http://www.beconvinced.com
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Democracy in Islam
By IOL* Team
14/08/2003
Every individual in an Islamic society enjoys the rights and powers as the caliph of Allah, and in this respect all individuals are equal. “Caliphate” as a term has frequently been used to describe an Islamic political system based on monarchy, while the authentic notion truly refers to the authority of every single Muslim in his human capacity and his right to enjoy dignity and respect.
The notion of khilafah expresses how Islam empowers human beings and also how the government does not enjoy any special rights apart from those delegated to it by the political community.
The Hobbesian conception of the necessity of the State and its priority and seeing it as a condition for civility does not conform to the Islamic perspective. Yes, the formation of a State is a historical process, but the community comes first. No authority may deprive any citizen of his rights and powers.
The agency for running the affairs of the state will be formed by agreement with these individuals, and the authority of the state will only be an extension of the powers of the individuals delegated to it. Their opinion should be decisive in the formation of the government, which will be run with their advice and in accordance with their wishes.
Whoever gains their confidence will undertake the duties and obligations of the caliphate on their behalf (in the form of political representation); and when he/she loses this confidence he/she will have to step down from his/her specific position and be accountable for his/her actions and decisions. In this respect the political system of Islam is a form of democracy, even if it is not a secular one as democracies are usually defined in contemporary political literature.
What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy, therefore, is that the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty, while the former rests on the principle of popular khilafah, mixing religious devotion with a notion of democracy and citizenship.
In Western democracy, the people are sovereign; in Islam sovereignty is vested in Allah and the people are His caliphs or representatives. The laws given by Allah through His Prophet ( Shari ‘ah) are to be regarded as constitutional principles that should not be violated.
By IOL* Team
14/08/2003
Every individual in an Islamic society enjoys the rights and powers as the caliph of Allah, and in this respect all individuals are equal. “Caliphate” as a term has frequently been used to describe an Islamic political system based on monarchy, while the authentic notion truly refers to the authority of every single Muslim in his human capacity and his right to enjoy dignity and respect.
The notion of khilafah expresses how Islam empowers human beings and also how the government does not enjoy any special rights apart from those delegated to it by the political community.
The Hobbesian conception of the necessity of the State and its priority and seeing it as a condition for civility does not conform to the Islamic perspective. Yes, the formation of a State is a historical process, but the community comes first. No authority may deprive any citizen of his rights and powers.
The agency for running the affairs of the state will be formed by agreement with these individuals, and the authority of the state will only be an extension of the powers of the individuals delegated to it. Their opinion should be decisive in the formation of the government, which will be run with their advice and in accordance with their wishes.
Whoever gains their confidence will undertake the duties and obligations of the caliphate on their behalf (in the form of political representation); and when he/she loses this confidence he/she will have to step down from his/her specific position and be accountable for his/her actions and decisions. In this respect the political system of Islam is a form of democracy, even if it is not a secular one as democracies are usually defined in contemporary political literature.
What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy, therefore, is that the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty, while the former rests on the principle of popular khilafah, mixing religious devotion with a notion of democracy and citizenship.
In Western democracy, the people are sovereign; in Islam sovereignty is vested in Allah and the people are His caliphs or representatives. The laws given by Allah through His Prophet ( Shari ‘ah) are to be regarded as constitutional principles that should not be violated.
root
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It is a misrepresentation of a western society if you beleive that.
Another issue is that you claim democracy is a government run for and voted by it's people, then compare a democracy in Islam as divivine. Yet you completely fail to mention that true democracy forbids religous and military powers from serving in a Government?
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Root, democracy is not against Islam at all. The laws in a democracy are decided upon, while the laws in Islam are divine. that's the only difference. Both laws are implemented and enforced. A democracy with a majority of muslims would function as an islamic democracy.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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You mean western democracy and islamic democracy.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Salaam hash,
thanks for your post. I think to compare two systems we need to first describe them and their function.
Your major point was that democratic governments have brought much destruction. This has nothing to do with democracy. This is exactly the same logic as those who say that islam supports terrorism because there are muslim terrorists. That's flawed logic and you're maiing the same mistake.
So pointing out such problems does not deal with the issue. We need to describe both systems first.
What is Democracy?
Now you can point out where Islam differs and what is wrong with the above descriptions.
Support your points logically. If you wish to say that they are haraam or unislamic, then support your points with proofs from Qur'an and Ahadith.
thanks for your post. I think to compare two systems we need to first describe them and their function.
Your major point was that democratic governments have brought much destruction. This has nothing to do with democracy. This is exactly the same logic as those who say that islam supports terrorism because there are muslim terrorists. That's flawed logic and you're maiing the same mistake.
So pointing out such problems does not deal with the issue. We need to describe both systems first.
What is Democracy?
Now you can point out where Islam differs and what is wrong with the above descriptions.
Support your points logically. If you wish to say that they are haraam or unislamic, then support your points with proofs from Qur'an and Ahadith.
Last edited:
Chuck
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Brother you pay too much attention to names, rose is rose no matter what you call it. In Islam, the concept of Ijma is Democracy.Hash said:
Oh brother ansar, gaze at logic, it is so simple. Think about it, contemplate the fact that bottom line, conclusion, summary, SIMPLE AS, is this. Democracy, man made, islamic law, allah's law.
Oh my brother, we are on this earth, and the qur'aan states in numerous places, for one reason. To worship allah. To pray to allah, to complete the islamic requirments, to inplement the deen in our lives. How dare we live under a creation 's law and a creation's system, how can we even compare this to the islamic law. The creators law, the creators system.
Jaza'kallah heir.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Hash,Let's examine your points.
The authour of this article has simply tried to make a generalization about democracy based on the flaws in currect democratic systems. But that is not the definition of democracy. Democracy is freedom, justice, rights, etc. Whether the current democratic countries are following these values is a completely different issue!Hash said:
No. That is not how democracy is defined. Democracy is built upon the consensus of the people and individual freedom and liberty. This is how democracy is defined. If you disagree, then you are not discussing democracy with me, anymore. You have changed this discussion into alternative meanings of the word 'democracy'.
I have given you the definition of democracy. Let's work with that. You are changing the definition and then saying that it is wrong.
Nonsense. In democracy there is a hierarchy of law. In western democracy these laws are simpy accepted values. In Islamic democracy, these laws are the Laws of Allah. Therefore, there is no need to say that a democracy rejects Allah swt.
This has nothing to do with democracy. The only reason these problems exist is because they are viewed acceptable by the general public.
Let me give you something to consider. Imagine a democracy with a majority of muslims and qualified and united imaams. Would we still have these problems? No. So then, these are not problems with democracy, only with the social values of people.
What if the compromise amongst the people is in accordance with halaal and haraam?
Islam has the same concept of majority, consensus and consultation.
42:38 Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
After reading this article, i only saw the ignorance of some muslims.
It does not contradict in any way. I await further proof.
Democratic laws follow a superior order of laws in most countries. So if these countries are secular, then these superior laws will be man-made. But if these countries are Muslims, then the superior laws will be the lwas of Allah swt.
So a democracy has minor laws that follow major laws.
In western democracies, these major laws are accepted values.
In Islamic democracies, these major laws are the laws of God.
So this is not a difference between islam and democracy, it is a difference between Islam and WESTERN democracy.
Because democracy is not defined as a man-made system. It just happens that secular democracies follw a man-made system.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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While there are differences, to say that it is not compatible would be a far stratch. Democracy is founded upon individual freedom and human rights. These values are also central to the Islamic notion of Khilafa. Rather than attempting to change the definition of democracy, let's examine the pillars of democracy.
Government based upon consent of the governed.
Majority rule.
Minority rights.
Guarantee of basic human rights.
Free and fair elections.
Equality before the law.
Due process of law.
Constitutional limits on government.
Social, economic, and political pluralism.
Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromise.
Islam is perfectly compatible with these values and ideas. You are attempting to produce incompatibility by comparing Islam to the western application of democracy. But democracy is a wide concept and the Khilafa is a democratic system.
That would be a difference between Islam and western democracy. In western democracy, there is still a higher order of laws to which inferior laws must adhere. The difference is that in a secular state, these superior order of laws are decided upon by the public, while in Islam they are the laws of God. I think we both agree on this point.
Shaykh Ja'far Sheikh Idris has summarised the issue nicely:
I agree. But I am not asking if Islam is compatible with the western interpretation of democracy, but rather the concept of democracy as a whole.
I am sure that we both agree on this point.
When we are trying to explain the Islamic concept of Khilafa to non-muslims, it makes it easier for them to understand if we compare it in terms of democracy.
The following article is very informative on the subject. Let me know what you think about it.
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=545
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Ansar Al-'Adl
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Hash,I think the problem is that you are comparing Islam to the western interpretation of democracy. I am just pointing out that in the basic sense, Islam is a democratic system. Please read this article and tell me what you think:
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=545
bro,If the main point was related to the general concept of democracy instead of the western one, then yes, they do share the same similarities. However, I dislike comparin' the Caliphate system to a democratic system. The Caliphate is unique 'cause it provides solutions for all relationships in society.
And sorry for missin' out words. I type too fast and rarely re-read what I wrote hehe.
Ansar Al-'Adl
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Yes, I think we are in agreement. The only reason why I am comparing Islam and Democracy is because it helps to explain it to non-muslims. I agree that the Khilafa is much more comprehensive than other political systems. But I think muslims should explain it in a way that non-muslims can appreciate.
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