Why doesn't God Stop all the suffering on Earth?

format_quote Originally Posted by Jazzy

To me this would be the best explanation. Imagine if there was no suffering, no evil in the world. Imagine if everything was perfect, how would you as a human being ever have the chance to help one another? If everyone had perfect lives, no problems, no fears, we would all mind our business and have no reason to give charity, be kind to one another, help one another. If everything was so darn good and nothing bad ever happened, we would never have the opportunity to do good with each other. For example all the helpless people in places like Africa or war driven countries, we wouldnt think twice to look that way or think about them if they lived a life without problems. We wouldnnt learn from our mistakes, grow the courage to do better, or struggle or any of it. Honestly, thats the best thing I can think of, for me to understand why things are the way they are. Im not even saying thats all right, because God has given us a choice to do good or bad. You do good and u will be rewarded for that and do bad youll be punished. This is why as Muslims we believe life is a test for us. Well thats the best I can explain it. Hope u get the idea.

Peace

It's got some great points in it.

Life is filled with ups and downs f'shizzle, this we all know. The problem comes when we try to attribute gods hand (if it has any hands) in everything we see.
My Mum says to me "I'm so blessed, God has really spoken to me. I was worried about the car Tax and now I got a rebate on my fuel bills to pay it with"
Fair do's. But the fact remains that her cat got flattened the same week. If god's hand is in all then God Killed her cat. Thats not a blessing, she's cut up about it, but beleives that it was tiggers time and that God had a purpose.

Sometimes, (very freaking often actually) things happen that no good comes from, or the good is outweighed by the bad a millionfold.

If we accept that the famine in Ethiopia was caused so that the British people could show generosity in donating food and clothes, we have to also consider that in order to show this generosity, God killed 4 million people.
It simply dosnt work.

If Serbia attacking the Kosovan Muslims was a chance for the West to help their fellow humans and stop milosovics evil reign, we have to pass the skinned bodies hanging from the churches as a neccessery sacrifice to a loving God.

Jazzy, in response to your reply. I would suggest breaking it up into at least 2 paragraphs next time.

I understand the argument of suffering makes us better. My question is why the young kids as a specific example? What have they learned and grown with for their suffering given their immature stage?

The answer's I've gotten are:
1) kids go to heaven. Which really doesn't answer the question I don't think.
2) As a test for the parents.
3) Only Allah knows.

So tackling number 2, god creates a soul, makes it suffer and brings it back to heaven for the sole purpose of teaching the parents a lesson.

Thanks.

format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -

People are trialled, even if they are sinless (i.e. the Prophets) - yet it effects those around them. This trial increases their status in the next life, or if they sin - it removes their sins.


Our belief is that Adam and his wife ate from the tree, we were affected by that mistake because we came in this world. An example of how someone elses trial affected people of a later time. The same may be applied to this baby scenario.

So the baby with the tumour has the tumour because their parents sinned in some way?

I heard an interesting debate on this topic earlier this morning on the radio. A theist will say that every human being, whether 1 minute old or 100 years old is here to serve a purpose. That purpose can range from the dramatic to something very subtle.

An athiest or agnostic might say that the millions of deaths and the millions who suffer don't seem to have a purpose but to suffer, which doesn't point to the existence of an almighty loving Creator.

The truth is that people of faith, particularly the Abrahamic faiths, believe in a divine purpose and plan. Athiests and agnostics do not. There is not going to be a breakthrough on this issue I'm afraid. People have been debating this for centuries.

All I can say is be patient. We all die eventually, regardless of how or when. Then the answer will be there for all of us, whether we wink out of existence like a candle or we exist with God eternally. My bet is with God. Others may bet on something else.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gator

This is a tricky question for me to get across.

The child isn't developed? Why didn't it get a chance to develop. If you assume a islamic god,

we don't assume an Islamic God, you do. Allah [Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] is both "our" God AND your God as well!

there has to be a point of life right?

to try and obtain Jannah, so the child gets to avoid a whole lot of crap and gets straight to graduation! Alhumdulillah!

The child just died. It didn't get a chance to grow into other stages. To experience all the stages of life? Why not?

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

you ASSUME an importance to the dunya(this world) that Islam tries to put in perspective. this world is but the twinking of an eye, Paradise is forever!

picture this, someone gets Jannah after a really short life, are you under the impression that they will be upset that they never got to:

smoke, drink, have sex, watch WWF, go top a Mariah Carey show, watch some footy, listen to music?

that would be dumb as you ARE IN PARADISE!

[QUOTE=Gator;928790]

Originally Posted by YusufNoor
you don't believe in Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala], so there no way you are going to know that 3 year old will be in Jannah, nor will you understand the concept of Allah's[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] justice. it actually appears that YOU are the one denying them justice by denying the ONE who, provides justice.

it is YOU that claims the victim of SIDS has been somehow shortchanged or that Allah [Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] is somehow unfair. all of your misconceptions are based upon your denial of Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala]!

I'm just showing my thought process in regards to your ideas about the nature of god in relation to the fact that suffering exists. The argument that "only god knows" just doesn't do for me

La Ilaha Ilah Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah could change all of that, but we have no power to convince you of that. you have to change yourself first...

I am as god made me.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

yes, only Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] knows the total reason for everything!

BUT, you assume facts not in evidence to wit: this dunya actually matters!

you are definitely NOT as Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] made you. you WERE when you were born, but your environment has molded you into the person that you are.

[QUOTE][Jazzy, in response to your reply. I would suggest breaking it up into at least 2 paragraphs next time.

I understand the argument of suffering makes us better. My question is why the young kids as a specific example? What have they learned and grown with for their suffering given their immature stage?

The answer's I've gotten are:
1) kids go to heaven. Which really doesn't answer the question I don't think.
2) As a test for the parents.
3) Only Allah knows.

So tackling number 2, god creates a soul, makes it suffer and brings it back to heaven for the sole purpose of teaching the parents a lesson.

Thanks. /QUOTE]

sorry thought i had more time, Allahu Alam yes!

but who knows, others close by may learn as well as the parents realizing that the dunya is termporary and they get more spiritual.

the baby may also get a high rank in Jannah, and when someone wants to know why the baby is higher than them, Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] can inform them of the suffering in the baby's past.

Allahu Alim though...

Us humans have a very poor understanding of time. Time is a concept not a thing. The difference in the age of a baby that dies at birth and a man who dies at 100 years old is insignificant. Both are just a minute speck in terms of eternity.

A baby with just one cognitive second of life can achieve more than some people achieve in 100 years. We need to think in the perspective of lifetime not in terms of years. It does not matter how long the lifetime is, a lifetime is a lifetime, and we will be judged on the basis of what we do and think in that lifetime.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gator

Jazzy, in response to your reply. I would suggest breaking it up into at least 2 paragraphs next time.

I understand the argument of suffering makes us better. My question is why the young kids as a specific example? What have they learned and grown with for their suffering given their immature stage?

The answer's I've gotten are:
1) kids go to heaven. Which really doesn't answer the question I don't think.
2) As a test for the parents.
3) Only Allah knows.

So tackling number 2, god creates a soul, makes it suffer and brings it back to heaven for the sole purpose of teaching the parents a lesson.


Thanks.

Does it really matter if I do. I'm not in English class or writing a paper of some sort. And you understood it well, so I really don't see why I need too. But if it helps you understand better, sure why not.

As for your statement, way to mix it up....

Are you not thankful in whatever it may be, that you have your health. That you have something others may lack? Thankful for being able to live a longer life than most? Does it not make you want to feel more compassionate and sympathetic to others who aren't as fortunate as you are? Not specifically just kids, anyone you see who aren't as lucky as you might be. You might have something they lack and they might have something you lack. All this are examples so you realize not to complain of what you do not have and instead be thankful for what you DO have. And not compare or compete with people and be satisfied with what you have already been blessed with. It sure does make me feel that way...
This is why me and more like me are thankful to Allah(swt) for everything he has given us and for what we may not have, cause we know we are not the only ones and there are others who feel the same.

format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger

Barney



There is a difference between knowing what is right or wrong, and being aware of Allah. And who teaches the child how to speak, how to walk, how to put their thumbs in their mouths? When a mother first grabs her new born baby, the baby opens its mouth and starts suckling. There are some things which Allah has already taught us from birth.

Some of the above is Parenting and society. Children who are brought up in the wild by animals cant speak, and cant be taught to speak.
The sucking reflex isnt a confirmation that a baby knows God.



Where do you get this idea of suffering? You can’t feel the pain you assume the child is undergoing, all you are doing so far is assuming, and making countless assumptions. God does as He Wills, and until you grasp that concept you will continue to ask questions which you can’t comprehend.

Your saying that a newborn cant feel pain? You would rather take that on board as a beleif in contery to all evidence , science and common sense rather than accept that God, if he is omnipotent allows suffering?
Hey, OK. Theres no debating against that. Each to their own i suppose.

Are you the one who gave them life? The one who will take away their life? Is that your argument, they didn’t had the opportunity to sin? and disobey Allah? They died while they were sinless. You should be glad, that is the Mercy of Allah. Only Allah knows what was before them and what was behind them.

Their parents are the ones who gave them life. Am I glad that they diddnt have an oppotunity to sin? I'm far far more concerned with the point , that they never had the oppotunity to use their free will to do good. I'm never happy at death. The younger the death, the less point in it all.

You have being given the chance to live for at least 3 decades? I am sure you have had a crack at life.

Yeah, and I'm happy enough with what Ive done so far. My daughter hasnt. If she died next week from a tree falling on her, I would not be cheering a God who allowed it to happen. Actually I wouldnt be angry with it either. I just beleive that it had no part in the matter.


So your actions create your emotions? Come’ on, is it a consequence that all Humans have a set of emotions, which makes us all humans? If each individual “made” their own emotions depending on their actions, then certainly we would not have experienced basic emotional feelings such as joy, happiness, anger, hatred, jealousy, sadness, pleasure, ect. The point is these emotions are universal, and that only proves that you certainly do not create your own emotions, but you had then when you were born. At least be grateful dear.

Yes indeed my emotions are my own. I choose to get angry with the parking ticket, i choose to accept the promotion with happyness. I can listen to my favorite music and the part of my brain that appreciates music wont trigger joy unless I submit to that feeling.
If God controls our emotions and as evidenced by him being omnipotent and omnipresent controls our free will, then we are surely mindless automons.

A life which doesn’t fulfill its designed purpose is truly pointless.

Trufax! But do we have a designated purpose in life. Am I supposed to invent the cure for the common cold? Am i here to provide freindship for my mate, am I here to buy a cup of tea off the starbucks shop in Wakefield on the 22nd of Febuary 2012AD?



You could have jumped off a building, and survived. You only die at your appointed time. God takes your life, when the soul is forced to live your body. And we both know that it isn’t you who is able to separate your soul from your body.

If I jump off a building in a certain way at a certain height, I'll die.
If I die then its "God taking my life" If I live then "God saved me to live paralysed for the rest of my days" as a test.
I'll just chuck the free will out of the window.


And how would you like God to be described?
Loving, peaceful, merciful, and present.

Peace.


Allah knows Best.

My fellow Muslims, correct me if i have made an unintentional mistake(s) :blind:

Peace.

format_quote Originally Posted by Jazzy

^^ I dont get it, did u like that Barney? lol

LOL!
Nahh I disagree with pretty much all of it (again!)
Still, all the better to spam out our feelings on it.
Peace.