Alleged Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad? (OP)
If wine consumption is an abomination, then why are the righteous promised copious amounts of it in the Garden which they are promised in the afterlife?
"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90). "
Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
It seems most of you have slightly differing explanations. You all agree that this is not a contradiction, but, I have not yet seen a logical explanation. Surely, when one is in paradise, one should still obey Islamic Laws. Why would there be one law for this life, and another for the afterlife? Is virtue not an absolute quality? How can a vice become a virtue?
As much as I have been trying to keep out of this thread I had to respond. Why do you make the above assumption? Surely, when one is in paradise, one should still obey Islamic Laws.
Why would there be one law for this life, and another for the afterlife? Maybe due to the fact that this life and the next life are drastically different, for example, this life is a test, Allah tests us through differnt means in this life, whereas the next life is not a test. So why would there need to be the obeying of the same laws. That is point one.
Point two, some laws are to prevent immorality/sins, in paradise there will be none.
Point three, if one takes the haram out of a situation the situation is not haram, if I have a ham sandwich the sandwhich may be haram, but if I make another sandwich without the ham, then it is not haram. Similarly, does it not make sense that if one takes the haram parts out of a substance it seazes to be haram?
I don't see how that does not make sense, and Almighty God knows best.
The path is long but I hope we meet,
After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.
A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
Because it will be a wine of different kind? Btw, it does mention one main difference in its properties -- it doesn't intoxicate.
The text says no drinks will intoxicate, and that the smell and taste of wine will be different, which are really the only reasons anyone drinks it, those properties define a drink particularly one like wine.
If you took all the sugar and caffeine and colourings and flavourings out of Coke and replaced them with orange juice, would it make sense to still call it Coke?
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
It seems you've entered into foreign territory so you've decided the best course of action is ridicule and misrepresentation to cover the fact you don't know what you're talking about.
Also you never addressed the point.
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
Well u know what it is right? With you, there is always some thing or another that just leads to ridiculing, because ur so daymn make it out as ur so innocent! Which ur not! Ur here to ridicule OUR beliefs - you carry on doing that, coz wallaahi (I swear by Allaah) that on the Day of Judgement I will be SO glad seeing you dragged upon ur face into the hell fire!!
Getting back on topic;This post answers your question by the way.
And do you seriously think that wine in Heaven will be like wine on earth?! NO! It won't! The only reason why God has described things in Paradise to us in these words is because we are familiar with them! But in Jannah will be something that no eye has ever seen or no ear has ever heard!
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
We should keep in mind not to take the descriptions of heaven too literally. The akhira is out of the reaches of our earthly perception and senses. The descriptions given in the Quran of heaven (and hell) are there to connect to our current senses and give us an idea of how blissful or tormenting the afterlife is.
Peace
Allah never changes a Blessing that He has bestowed upon a nation until they first change themselves. And, certainly, God it is Who is Hearer, Knower. -The Holy Quran 8:53
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Serve Allah by serving humanity.
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
Well u know what it is right? With you, there is always some thing or another that just leads to ridiculing, because ur so daymn make it out as ur so innocent! Which ur not! Ur here to ridicule OUR beliefs
Which makes it ok to ridicule others?
Seriously though that's not what I come here for. Questioning other people helps me get to the root of what I really think and why I think it.
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
you carry on doing that, coz wallaahi (I swear by Allaah) that on the Day of Judgement I will be SO glad seeing you dragged upon ur face into the hell fire!!
Bit malicious that
format_quote Originally Posted by - Serene -
Getting back on topic;This post answers your question by the way.
And do you seriously think that wine in Heaven will be like wine on earth?! NO! It won't! The only reason why God has described things in Paradise to us in these words is because we are familiar with them! But in Jannah will be something that no eye has ever seen or no ear has ever heard!
Doesn't really answer the question, partly but not quite.
Seems very odd that the drinks in heaven are described in terms of drinks on earth that no muslim should have experienced. I just don't understand the point of describing something that's not the same as the word you're using and none of your followers have ever drunk anyway.
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
The text says no drinks will intoxicate, and that the smell and taste of wine will be different, which are really the only reasons anyone drinks it, those properties define a drink particularly one like wine.
If you took all the sugar and caffeine and colourings and flavourings out of Coke and replaced them with orange juice, would it make sense to still call it Coke?
Perhaps it is called wine in the Quran simply so we can relate to it. I mean, if it was called Dr Pepper or something, people wouldn't understand what it meant - alternatively, it could simply mean that: ''yeah it's wine without all the bad'' (hence the lack of intoxicant and smell etc).
Overall though, I think nycmuslim's post was quite succint: we shouldn't take the description too literally. None of us have been there and tasted it
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
This is exactly what I'm talking about... can you relate to it? As a muslim surely the answer would be no.
By relate I mean in the word used as opposed to the actual product - most muslims know what wine is seeing as it contains alcohol and what not. Just because we aren't allowed to drink it, doesn't mean we don't know what it is .
I do think you're right that it's meant to be more of a metaphorical description, it's just the choice of words seems very strange to me.
I'll have a read up in the translations of those quranic ayats. Maybe a scholars interpretation will yield an answer (they usually contain some sort of historical relevance to the ayats and why they were revealed, etc).
Overall though, I'm fairly certain that the usage of the word 'wine' in the Quran is indeed metaphorical as opposed to say a contradiction or an absolute (infact, I don't even think it is supposed to have any deeper meaning to it other than the name of the drink!)
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by NYCmuslim
We should keep in mind not to take the descriptions of heaven too literally. The akhira is out of the reaches of our earthly perception and senses. The descriptions given in the Quran of heaven (and hell) are there to connect to our current senses and give us an idea of how blissful or tormenting the afterlife is.
Peace
this plus the fact that the qur'an itself explains that it is different seem to answer the question quite nicely, i think.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by Azy
Seems very odd that the drinks in heaven are described in terms of drinks on earth that no muslim should have experienced. I just don't understand the point of describing something that's not the same as the word you're using and none of your followers have ever drunk anyway.
Early Arabs used to drink two alcoholic beverages, one made of Ginger considered 'Hot', and one made with camphor, considered cool.. the prohibition of liquor wasn't complete and abrupt in one stage.. as is stated
in the verse 2:219
They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah make clear to you His Signs: in order that ye may consider.
So who says No muslim ever knew what an alcoholic beverage is?
surely heaven has that which no eye has seen nor ears have heard, but Allah swt is giving us assimilations of things we can relate too...
as stated prior, if it is denoted in the Quran that there is a place called 'Tasneem' you'd shrug your shoulder pffft? so what?..
unless it is likened to a 'spring' then you can have some mental image of what it might be, though not fully capturing it..
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
The word use to describe the drink in paradise is "sharab", does that word necessarily mean wine or can it mean any drink? And why is "khamr" used to describe the wine that is prohibited on earth?
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
Terms like 'mizajoho min tasneem' does denote wine whose very dregs are from the spring (tasneem), or of Musk etc
Most good wines aren't about the alcoholic contents but about the body of flavors that have been aged and linger on the palate.. hence you'd find a description like a sauvignon, is herbaceous with tropical aromas
or a chenin blanc fresh, fragrant with peach aroma medium bodied and fruity..
you can have a look here http://www.spierrestaurants.co.za/dl/Jonk_wine.pdf
You will not see wine described as chablis ethanol 98%
or cabernet mostly isopropyl ( as illegal as that is) but hope you get the anaology?
because it isn't about the alcohol..
I'd hate to say this, but if you know about wine, then you'll actually get a full appreciation of what it means to have a drink described with dregs in musk or zanjabeel etc.. It is really a very deep description..
and undoubtedly from the mere description there is nothing earthy about it...
Hope that helps, especially the disagreeable ones, who thinks all provincial oafs?!
Last edited by جوري; 06-26-2008 at 11:15 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
As much as I have been trying to keep out of this thread I had to respond. Why do you make the above assumption? Surely, when one is in paradise, one should still obey Islamic Laws.
Why would there be one law for this life, and another for the afterlife? Maybe due to the fact that this life and the next life are drastically different, for example, this life is a test, Allah tests us through differnt means in this life, whereas the next life is not a test. So why would there need to be the obeying of the same laws. That is point one.
Point two, some laws are to prevent immorality/sins, in paradise there will be none.
Point three, if one takes the haram out of a situation the situation is not haram, if I have a ham sandwich the sandwhich may be haram, but if I make another sandwich without the ham, then it is not haram. Similarly, does it not make sense that if one takes the haram parts out of a substance it seazes to be haram?
I don't see how that does not make sense, and Almighty God knows best.
I so agree with you brother!!!!
sometimes it's just soooooooooo hard to bite your tongue!!!
Re: Contradictions in Quran: Is Wine Consumption Good or Bad?
Can i just say that from my understanding heaven and paradise are two different things,
heaven is not where you go to in the hereafter if you have been a true believer its paradise!!!
heaven is the seven heavens that Allah swt mentions in the Qur'an i remember once reading somewhere where it stated that the 7 heavens maybe a reference to 7 galaxies.
i'll try to find you the article InshaAllah.
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