× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 3 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last
Results 41 to 60 of 68 visibility 7963

Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

  1. #1
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    Full Member Array Chuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    938
    Threads
    60
    Reputation
    6130
    Rep Power
    121
    Rep Ratio
    66
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth (OP)


    Somebody brought up a question about stoning to death. When was the last time a muslim country stoned someone to death?
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).


  2. #41
    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,520
    Threads
    368
    Rep Power
    120
    Rep Ratio
    8
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death

    Report bad ads?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Staffy

    So your saying i'm commiting a act of kufr? my works will amount to nothing now as i am not repenting? Please brother have some modesty in your posts on what athourity do you make such a rash statment? It hurts when a brother is so rash because most likely you only mean good! But Muhamad (pbuh) was a messanger of Allah and he delivered Allahs message....If Allah in his infinate mercy and wisdom gave permision for the punishment of stoning would it not be in the Quran? as Allahs infalible word? I go by the qurans rulings before i go by any hadith and the Al-Quran as i've stated tells me what to do in the issue of Adultery and Fornification I need no extra clarification..........Alhamduilah Irabil Alamien Ash hadu ala ilaha ila ala wa ash hadu anna muhamadan ra rasululah......That is my faith.....I am Muslim........Allah alone i worship sincre to him in my religeon......and may peace be upon you and your loved ones.........Staffy
    :brother:
    brother,

    Please forgive me if I might sounded harsh but I have explained you in many posts the importance of the Sunnah. This is the one of the many primary beliefs in the Qur'an. Rejecting the Sunnah is disobeying Allaah and His Messenger and Disobeying them is Hellfire.

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger and transgresses His limits, He shall admit him to Fire where he shall remain forever. (4:14)

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (33:36)

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam. There they shall remain forever. (72:23)

    And whoever makes a breach with Allâh and His Messenger, then Allâh is severe in punishment. (8:13)

    Did they not come to know that whoever opposes Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam? (9:63)
    You will find many websites belong to pseudo Islaamic-cults arguing that the Sunnah is fallible and not required but these people will only lead you astry.

    I expounded the position of Sunnah and I have elucidated that the stoning punishment is one of the fundamental laws in Islaam. If you reject one of the laws, then how can one argue that he accepts the Message and believes in it. And like I also previously mentioned, the verse of abrogation was recited during the time of the Prophet but abrogated verbally whilst its injuction was applicable.

    Whilst your intention may be pure akhee, I strongly urge you to seek knowledge because clearly you are new to Islam. And those who entered the Faith recently will easily get confused when confronted with advanced islamic rulings such as the abrogation.


  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #42
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death

    br Staffy,
    When presented with information about Islam, you should try to increase your understanding of Islam, rather than becoming defensive. Br. Kadafi has clearly shown that we have to follow Islam as revealed by Allah SWT in the Qur'an and explained by Prophet Muhammad saws in his Sunnah (way). If you follow this you will never be lost.

    If you always act defensive, you will never be able to gain a good understanding of Islam. You have to be open-minded in disucssions and see which position stands up to criticism. Br. Kadafi has refuted all of Khalid Zaheer's points.

    I hope you will not be offended as you are our dear brother in Islam.
    May Allah SWT guide all of us.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  5. #43
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    My Story


    I came to Islam because i read a translation of the Al-Quran Alhamduilah...
    I did not have contact with muslims in Australia (or who i knew was a muslim) until i had already decided to revert......Now i have alot of contact with repitable Muslims Alhamuilah....
    You did not explain to me why i should belive these aHadith's as the unchanged word of my Prophet(pbuh)? Allah reapeativly tells us that through repention lie's forgivness in fact at one stage i remember hearing of Isa (pbuh) asking Allah wether if Satan repented would Allah forgive him? and Allah was said to of said "of course i would forgive him but i already know he wont repent" so you see even shaytan would have forgivness Inshalla if he sincerley repented........So doe's this rulling not give room for forgivness? repentance? strong values which all Muslims have been taught? Allahs word in the Al-Quran is protected by Allah in his infinate mercy and wisdom! but we know not wether the Ahadith are protected.....
    You have just asked me to belive and trust when the proof is not in front of me.........We are asked to seek truth from those who have knowlage but we are also asked to clarify everything ourselves otherwise to speak not of what we don't know(do not pass on info unless sure it's the truth and if doing so we must quote)........that is why i came to Islam.....Because it provideds all the evidence i need that this is the way of the rightous the truthfull way.....which hides nothing......and leaves nothing beyond the reach of anybody.......for Allah is indeed most mercifull and all knowing...... :brother:
    Last edited by Staffy; 07-09-2005 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Pbuh
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  6. #44
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Stoning to death

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
    May Allah SWT guide all of us

    Ameein brother..
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #45
    Bittersteel's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,549
    Threads
    120
    Rep Power
    117
    Rep Ratio
    8
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Stoning to death

    ameen...

    what's going on here?I lost track of your argument.

    When you were saying to the one whom Allah had blessed and whom you had blessed, (i.e. Zaid, before he divorced Zainab), “Keep to you your wife and fear Allah,” and you were hiding in your heart what Allah was to disclose and you were fearing people, and Allâh has more right to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished with her, We made you marry her, so that there may remain no restriction on the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when they have finished with them. And the order of Allah had to be done. (33:37)
    What does this verse explain?

  9. #46
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death

    Staffy,
    Yes, Allah SWT can forgive any sin if we sincerely repent.

    The Ahadith have been authenticated, and scrutinised in detail by Islamic scholars for centures. No one claimed that Prophet Muhammad's (saws) sayings were perfectly preserved, but we have preserved much in the authentic ahadith.

    I gave you this link before, but it seems you didn't study it:
    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/

    Please read it so that you can learn more about the sciences of ahadith and why we have authentic narrations which cannot be denied.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  10. #47
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death


    A useful article on the ahadith:
    Proofs of its Preservation

    Proofs that Allah preserved the sunnah are both textual and logical. The textual argument is based on the following verse “Of a surety, We certainly reveal the reminder, and We certainly are its definite guardians” (15:9). It can’t be stated that the word “reminder” in this verse is only referring to the Quran. It is either referring to the Quran and hadith or only the hadith. It is not possible that it is referring to only the Quran. This is true because it is inconceivable that only the wording of the Quran would be preserved. Preserving the Quran must imply both preserving both its wording and meaning. The meaning of the Quran is captured in the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him, that is, its meaning cannot be had without the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him.

    The logical argument runs as follows: According to Islamic belief, the Quran is Allah’s final revelation and the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is Allah’s final messenger. Allah orders Muslims to follow the sunnah of the Prophet peace be upon him. If Allah did not preserve the sunnah, the true sunnah would have been lost and Allah would be ordering Muslims to follow something that they could not possibly follow. This would not be consistent with what is known of the mercy, wisdom, and justice of Allah. Therefore, logically speaking, Allah must have preserved the hadith. These arguments do not mean that Allah did not use some earthly means to preserve the Quran and the hadith. Allah, through humans, used many means by which He preserved the sunnah. Some of these aspects are unique to the Muslim nation. This is a great blessing and bounty from Allah for which every Muslim should be sincerely grateful to Allah and to those individuals who sacrificed their time and wealth in order to preserve the teachings of the Prophet peace be upon him.

    Many people have a false conception of how the hadith were preserved. I will be discussing in some detail some of the means of preservation of hadith. There are yet other aspects in the preservation of hadith that “do not appear in the statistics,” as they say in the world of sports. For example, one cannot look at the chains of hadith and see the great desire that the early Muslims had in learning, memorizing, and gathering the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him. This great desire to learn the hadith has been demonstrated in many different ways, one of them being the journeying and sacrificing of time and wealth to learn and record the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him. The manner in which Allah preserved the Quran is well known and clear. However, the ways and means by which the hadith were preserved are not that well known. Hence some of the means by which the hadith were preserved will be discussed here.

    The Prophet peace be upon him and His Position According to the Quran

    a) Expounder of the Quran: The Prophet peace be upon him is the expounder of the Quran appointed by Allah. Allah mentions this in the Quran “We have revealed unto you the Remembrance that you may explain to mankind that which has been revealed for them” (16: 44). For example the Quran tells us to pray, but the details for the method of praying are not prescribed in the Quran. It was the Prophet’s task to demonstrate the forms of prayer.
    b) Legislator: Allah says about the Prophet peace be upon him in Chapter 7 verse 157 “He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul…”
    c) Model behavior for the Muslim Society: Allah says in chapter 33 verse 21 “Indeed a noble model you have in Allah’s Messenger...” If we consider the Prophet peace be upon him as the model for the community, then Muslims have to follow his example in every way. Allah did not leave this open to debate and ordered complete obedience to the Prophet peace be upon him. For this reason the Muslim community accepted the authority of the Prophet peace be upon him from the very day his mission began.

    Teaching of Ahadith by the Prophet peace be upon him

    The methods used by the prophet peace be upon him to teach his sunnah or ahadith can be put in three categories:
    1) Teaching of the sunnah in verbal form: the Prophet peace be upon him was the teacher of his sunnah, he would often times repeat important statements three times to make it easier for his companions to understand and memorize. New comers were often times to be accommodated by Medinites (people of Medina), not only for accommodations, but also for education in the Quran and Hadith.
    2) Teaching the sunnah in writing; All letters sent by the Prophet peace be upon him to kings, chieftains, and Muslim governors can be included in his sunnah. Some of those letters were very lengthy and contained legal matters concerning zakah, taxation, forms of worship etc. The Prophet peace be upon him had at least 45 scribes who wrote for him at one time or another.
    3) Teaching of the sunnah by practical demonstration: The Prophet peace be upon him taught the method of ablution, prayer, hajj etc all by practical demonstration. He gave practical lessons in excellence with clear instructions to follow his practice. He further said “Learn from the rituals of hajj” Many times he would tell questioners to stay with him and learn by observing his practice.

    Measures taken by the Prophet peace be upon him for the Diffusion of Sunnah

    1) Establishment of schools: The Prophet peace be upon him established a school in Mecca soon after he became a Prophet. Schools were also established by the Prophet peace be upon him in Medina soon after his arrival. His general policy was to send teachers to areas outside of Medina.
    2) His Directions about Diffusion of Knowledge: The Prophet peace be upon him said “Pass on knowledge from me even if it is only one verse” He also said something similar during his farewell pilgrimage “Those who are present should convey the message to those who are absent” It was a common practice of the companions to tell absentees about the Prophets deeds and sayings.
    3) Creation of incentive for teachers and students: The Prophet peace be upon him mentioned great rewards for teachers and students.
    a) Reward for students: The Prophet peace be upon him said: “If anyone pursues a path in search of knowledge Allah will thereby make easy for him a path to paradise, and the angels spread their wings from good pleasure with one who seeks knowledge, and all the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth, even the fish in the depths of the water ask forgiveness for him”
    b) Rewards for teachers: In this regard the Prophet peace be upon him mentioned that after death all deeds come to and end except three, one of them being knowledge that people still reap benefit from.


    How the Sunnah was Received by the Companions

    People always try to watch and remember the sayings and deeds of their loved ones. In regards to Mohammad peace be upon him, we can say for sure that he was the most beloved person on earth in his community. Some companions like Zayd said they would rather die, than have the Prophet peace be upon him even pricked with a thorn. Abu Sufyan a one time enemy of Islam said “I have never seen a man who was so loved by his companions as Mohammad was”. Thus the Prophet peace be upon him was the most beloved in his community. The community’s involvement in worldly pursuits was minimal and this made the opportunity for learning greater. The Arabs were known to have had excellent memories and used remember many verses of their tribal poets by heart.


    Companions Learning of Ahadith

    The Companions used three methods of learning

    a) Learning by memorizing: They used to listen to every word of the prophet peace be upon him with utmost care. If he went away for any reason they would recollect what they had learned. Anas ibn Malik, the servant of the Prophet peace be upon him said “We sat with the Prophet peace be upon him, maybe sixty persons in number and the Prophet peace be upon him taught them ahadith. Later on when he went out for any necessity, we used to memorize it among us, when we departed it was as if cultivated in our hearts” Those who were absent also used learn from those who were present. Some of them even came to agreement among themselves to attend the gatherings of the Prophet peace be upon him in shifts, as we find in the case of Umar.
    b) Learning ahadith through writing: The companions learned the ahadith by recording it in writing as well. There were a good number of companions who recorded the ahadith of the Prophet peace be upon him.
    c) Learning ahadith by practice: The companions put into practice everything they learned by writing or memory. Knowledge in Islam is for practice and not just for the sake of knowledge. This is why it took Umar eight years to memorize the second chapter of the Quran
    This is a sketch of how the ahadith of the Prophet peace be upon him was learned by the companions. After his death the method was almost the same except that he was no longer among them.

    Recollection of ahadith in the Period of the Companions

    Recollection of ahadith was carried in the time of the companions as it was during the life of the Prophet peace be upon him. Abu Huraira used to divide his night into three portions; one third for sleep, one third for prayer, and one third for the recollection of ahadith. Umar and Abu Musa al Ashari used to memorize ahadith through the night until the morning. They companions used to memorize in groups and individually.


    Recording of Hadith in the life of the Prophet peace be upon him and the Companions

    Certain companions wrote down ahadith in the life of the Prophet peace be upon him and in some cases he dictated it to them. There numbers are smaller than that of the later scholars. Not all companions narrated the same number of ahadith. Some had transmitted more than a thousand while others transmitted only one or two. Abu Hurairah transmitted the most ahadith and it was reported that he had books in his possession and at least nine of his students wrote ahadith from him. Others who transmitted large number of ahadith and had others collect them in written form are: Anas ibn Mailk, Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ibn Abbas, Abdullah ibn Amr, Umar ibn al Khattab, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Abu Musa al Ashari and others.

    Some Misunderstanding about Recording of Ahadith

    The Hadith Against Writing Down the Ahadith: There is only one authentic hadith about this matter which says “Do not write down from me anything except the Quran and whoever has written anything from me other than the Quran should erase it.” According to Bukhari and others it is the statement of the narrator Abu Said himself and it is erroneously attributed to the Prophet peace be upon him. Others say it means that nothing should be written on the same sheet as the Quran so the two don’t get mixed up. It should be remembered that this command was given in the early days of Islam and the Prophet peace be upon him wanted all attention to be paid to the Quran and its preservation, and later on there was no danger of neglecting the Quran, thus the previous order was abrogated and writing ahadith was permitted. The Prophet peace be upon him himself sent hundreds of letters containing formulae for forms and rituals of worship.

    Chain System

    Every Hadith consists of two parts; the first portion is the chain of narrators while the second protion is the actual statement of the Prophet peace be upon him. The chain system was used to some extent in transmitting pre-Islamic poetry, but it was in the hadith literature that its importance culminated. It was also in hadith literature when the system was used to its full and in some cases to extravagant limits. Since hadith was the store where we get the sunnah it was natural to deal with the isnad with utmost care. Thus with the introduction of the chains, a unique science came into existence for the evaluation of chain and text of ahadith. At the end of the first century the science of the chain system was fully developed.

    The Proliferation of Chains

    It is a common phenomenon of the chain system that as we go further in time the number of transmitters increases. Sometimes a hadith transmitted by one companion acquires ten students in the next generation, in the class of successors, and these ten students have in some cases twenty or thirty students from different countries. For example Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet peace be upon him said when anyone amongst you wakes up from sleep, he must not put his hand in a utensil until he washed it three times, for he doesn’t know where his hand was during sleep. At least thirteen students of Abu Huraira transmitted this hadith from him. 8 out of 13 were from Medina, 1 from Kufah, 2 from Basrah, 1 from Yemen, 1 from Syria. There are sixteen scholars who transmitted this hadith from the students of Abu Huraira. 6 out of the 16 were from Medina, 4 from Basrah, 2 from Kufah, 1 from Makkah, 1 from Yemen, 1 from Khurasan, 1 from Syria.
    Further down the chain the number of narrators increase and localities spread even further into different provinces. The flourishing of chains and diffusion of ahadith in this way made it easy to check the faults of scholars or any forgery that was committed. This proves the early existence of the chain system and shows how impossible it would have been to fabricate chains of transmission on this large a scale. The scholars used rigorous methods to examine chains of transmission, eliminating all ahadith passed by unreliable sources. Given centuries of this kind of activity we are logically justified in accepting the whole chain system and methodology of hadith scholars as accurate and valid.

    Forgery and Errors in Transmitting Ahadith

    The Prophet peace be upon him said “If anyone tells a lie about me intentionally, let him be sure of his place in hell fire.” This hadith and others had a tremendous effect on the companions and most of them refrained from imparting hadith in case of doubtful memory. Early scholars played their roles with due caution in transmitting or copying ahadith. As is known to all scholars, even the most sincere person may commit a mistake. Since the sunnah is an everlasting example for the Muslim community, the community couldn’t afford to let ahadith be polluted or diluted in any way. Therefore it was necessary to use criticism with full force.
    Yahya ibn Sa’id al-Qatan, one of the greatest scholars of the second century was known for his strong criticism and he said “In the hereafter I would prefer to be opposed by anyone rather than have the Prophet peace be upon him saying ‘you heard a hadith attributed to me and it came to your mind that it was not true but you did not criticize it.’” With this intention criticism of hadith was carried out, without fear or favor for anyone. We find that a father graded down his own son, a son criticized his father, a brother criticized his own kin without any fear or favor except the fear of Allah.

    Beginning of Criticism

    Criticism of hadith began during the life of the Prophet peace be upon him. At that time it meant nothing more than going to the prophet peace be upon him and verifying something he was reported to have said. With the death of the Prophet peace be upon him it was the duty of the Muslim individuals, community, and state to be very careful in ascribing statements to the Prophet peace be upon him, and they had to scrutinize them carefully. The first Caliph Abu Bakr was a pioneer in the field, next came Umar and Ali. To err is human and with the spread of hadith in different regions of the Islamic world, the possibility of mistakes arose. Consequently the necessity for criticism became apparent.
    During the time of trials of the assassination of Uthman the first fabrication of hadith began. During this stage the general trend of learning ahadith became stricter and schools of criticism began to appear. There were two prominent schools of that time, the school of Medina and the school of Iraq. The scholars of both schools belonged to the first century of Hijra and after this period of criticism of hadith entered a new phase. From the second century to a few centuries later it was a general requirement for the student of hadith to make extensive journeys in search of knowledge of hadith. Since the early scholars mostly learned from scholars in their area their criticism was confined to the same locality. When people began learning ahadith from hundreds of scholars their criticisms were not confined to one locality.

    Methodology of Criticism

    As far as it concerns the criticism of the text there were several methods that can all be brought under the broad heading of comparison. This method was by gathering all the related material and comparing them carefully with each other. Ayyub al Sakhtiyani said “If you wish to know the mistakes of your teacher, then you ought to sit down with others as well.” This method was practiced in many ways; the following are some of them:

    1) Comparison between the hadith of different students of one scholar: By this method one discovered the mistakes of almost every student and was able to differentiate between the mistakes made by the teacher and the mistakes made by the students. This also gave one the ability to grade the different students and determine their accuracy.
    2) Comparison between the statements of a single scholar at different times: Once Aisha told her nephew Urwah to go to Abdullah ibn Amr and ask him about the hadith of the Prophet peace be upon him. Abdullah mentioned a hadith that states that knowledge will be taken away from the earth. Aisha was discontented and sent Urwah a year later and when he returned to Aisha he told her Abdullah narrated the same hadith and didn’t add or subtract anything to it upon which she said he must be correct.
    3) Comparison between oral recitation and written documents: In case two scholars have a difference about a hadith the one written in the texts will be accepted because books are more accurate in the eyes of scholars.
    4) Comparison between hadith with related verses of the Quran: we find this method was used by Umar in rejecting the hadith of Fatima bint Qais concerning maintenance money for divorced women. This method was also applied by Aisha in several cases.
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  11. #48
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Hadith

    format_quote Originally Posted by xp2 (from UI forum)
    That is not necessarily true. The Quran is a divine revelation, directly from God, sanctified by God, and even protected by God.

    On the other hand, the ahadith literature is not a revelation like Quran... although it has some divine merits, it does not enjoy the same authenticity or protection as the Quran... since it is an account of history, witnessed, understood and then compiled.. by fallible men. Any particular hadith, is not a direct saying of the Prophet, rather it is a saying "attributed" to the Prophet. Therefore, we have to use sound judgement and wisdom to determine what is acceptable. It may be easier to understand.. if we look at the Bible as an example, to find the sayings/hadith of Jesus. We don't know for 100% certainty that what Jesus said is actually in the Bible, in it's original form. Some of them sayings are acceptable.. if there is no conflict with the Quran/Islam.. whereas others are put aside if there is [conflict].
    format_quote Originally Posted by noori (from UI forum)
    1) interesting point to note is " those companions who have spent their life with mohammed(pbuh) like abu bakar , umar -ibn-al khatab, and uthman , Ali ,aiysha , and many others few hadiths were transmited by them (b/c the reason is they were extremely careful in passing the hadith (actual words of prophet)

    Amein for the first quote and the secound quote is a very good point is it true?... :brother:
    Last edited by Staffy; 07-10-2005 at 04:54 AM.
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  12. #49
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death


    In the same thread you quoted from, Br. Kadafi (as servant) refuted all xp2's points in detail. You're looking at the first posts that were written, without looking at Br. Kadafi's response.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Servant
    As'salam Alaikum bro,

    Unfortunaley, what you've stated is far from the Truth.

    The [sahih] Ahadeeth are also a revelation[wahy] revealed from Allah (Exalted is He). This is manifested in al-Najm, verse(s) 1-4:


    æóÇáäøóÌúãö ÅöÐóÇ åóæóì ãóÇ Öóáøó ÕóÇÍöÈõßõãú æóãóÇ Ûóæóì æóãóÇ íóäØöÞõ Úóäö Çáúåóæóì Åöäú åõæó ÅöáÇ æóÍúíñ íõæÍóì
    (I swear) by the star when it sets, your companion is neither astray nor is deceived; Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed (to him).

    You also question the authencity and the intricacy of compilin' the Ahadeeth by claimin' that they cannot be a direct saying of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). That is a unfounded speculation. We have received the Glorious Qur'an and the Sahih Ahadeeth from the exact sources, how can one claim to believe in one whilst simultanously doubtin' the other.

    In addition, Allah (Exalted is He) has promised that He would guard the Glorious Qur'an from corruption. Since the Glorious Qur'an and the Sunnah are indispensable with each other, then one cannot claim that the Sunnah was not protected. And furthermore, the Glorious Qur'an denotes exclusively the Book, its meanings and words which were explained by the Prophet (Ahadeeth).

    Allah (Exalted is He) said in Surah Al-i-'Imran, verse 164 :

    óÞóÏú ãóäøó Çááøóåõ Úóáóì ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ÅöÐú ÈóÚóËó Ýöíåöãú ÑóÓõæáðÇ
    ãöäú ÃóäúÝõÓöåöãú íóÊúáõæ Úóáóíúåöãú ÂíóÇÊöåö æóíõÒóßøöíåöãú æóíõÚóáøöãõåõãõ ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó æóÇáúÍößúãóÉó æóÅöäú ßóÇäõæÇ ãöäú ÞóÈúáõ áóÝöí ÖóáóÇáò ãõÈöíäò
    Indeed Allâh conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad -- Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur’ân), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur’ân) and Al-Hikmah (the wisdom and the Sunnah of the Prophet (i.e. his legal ways, statements, acts of worship)), while before that they had been in manifest error.

    And in An-Nahl, verse 44:


    öÇáúÈóíøöäóÇÊö æóÇáÒøõÈõÑö æóÃóäúÒóáúäóÇ Åöáóíúßó ÇáÐøößúÑó áöÊõÈóíøöäó áöáäøóÇÓö ãóÇ äõÒøöáó Åöáóíúåöãú æóáóÚóáøóåõãú íóÊóÝóßøóÑõæäó
    With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou (Muhammad -- Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.


    ÅöäøóÇ äóÍúäõ äóÒøóáúäóÇ ÇáÐøößúÑó æóÅöäøóÇ áóåõ áóÍóÇÝöÙõæäó
    Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).

    Let's put in a logical perspective, how can one claim that the words of the Glorious remained intact and the meanings/and or explanations (i.e. Ahadeeth) were lost or corrupted?

    Wa'salaam
    As far as the second quote is concerned, Aisha (rd) is one of the companions that narrated the most ahadith! I'm not sure what the actual number is, maybe Br. Kadafi knows.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #50
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    He said


    In that post he said that Hadith and The Al-Quran came from the same sorce that is not so is it? the al-quran was compiled by conpanions of the Prophet(pbuh) and the Ahadith was not right?
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  15. #51
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: He said

    format_quote Originally Posted by Staffy

    In that post he said that Hadith and The Al-Quran came from the same sorce that is not so is it?
    The Qur'an was revealed by Allah SWT in both wording and meaning. The sayings of the Prophet saws were inspired by Allah in meaning, but the wording was that of the Prophet saws.

    the al-quran was compiled by conpanions of the Prophet(pbuh) and the Ahadith was not right?
    The ahadith were recorded and compiled to some extent by the companions as well.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  16. #52
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Stoning to death

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
    Staffy,
    Yes, Allah SWT can forgive any sin if we sincerely repent.

    Brother the point derived from that is that is that these adulturuse people couldent repent if they are dead......
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  17. #53
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death


    If they have been punished for it, the punishment in the next life is negated anyway.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  18. #54
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    But


    But over a long debate with myself i have decided that stoning may well be a aceptable punishment for they may well be better of to be stoned than to suffer a far worse punishment in the hereafter......But i will not let go of the opinion that i will question everything that comes my way five fold before i ever think about changing my doubts for Allah created my heart also and i can alone Inshalla judge right from wrong with proper evidences........Alhamduilah Irabil Alamien
    Last edited by Staffy; 07-10-2005 at 04:59 PM.
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  19. Report bad ads?
  20. #55
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: But

    Staffy,
    format_quote Originally Posted by Staffy
    But over a long debate with myself i have decided that stoning may well be a aceptable punishment for they may well be better of to be stoned than to suffer a far worse punishment in the hereafter......
    May Allah SWT bless you and further you in your Islamic knowledge!
    But i will not let go of the opinion that i will question everything that comes my way five fold before i ever think about changing my doubts for Allah created my heart also and i can alone Inshalla judge right from wrong with proper evidences....
    You will always have the right to question, and we are supposed to ask questions so that we understand our religion better. :brother:

    Preacher,
    I ask you once again to please be polite and kind on the forum. Keep in mind the following verse when doing Dawah to both Muslims and Non-Muslims:
    3:159 And by the Mercy of Allâh, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh hearted, they would have broken away from about you

    Gentleness is fundamental to Dawah. Remember, no matter how good your message is, you will never succeed until you use gentleness in your Dawah. As the Prophet Muhammad SAWS said:
    Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good. (Sahih Muslim)

    Statements like the following will not be tolerated on this forum:
    No you are not a Muslim, you just stepped outside the fold of Islam.
    To be honest with you, I was shocked at the way you spoke to Staffy. We would love to have you stay as a member, but you certainly must change the way you speak to other members.

    Staffy,
    I admire your sincerity and your desire to learn the truth. This is not a simple issue, and I went through the same process as you to learn about it. I also used to have the incorrect notion that stoning was wrong before, but now I have learned the truth and I understand that there is no injustice in it.

    I would love to explain it to you in detail.

    Keep asking questions, and keep learning.

    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  21. #56
    Staffy's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    48
    Threads
    4
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    12
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Stoning to death


    Thank you to all the brothers that helped me on this subject :brother:
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    "There can be NO PEACE without JUSTICE"
    :salaaam:

  22. #57
    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,520
    Threads
    368
    Rep Power
    120
    Rep Ratio
    8
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death



    Even though the ignoramuses might not fully grasp the wisdom of stoning, see here an articulate article written by brother Abdullah Mohammed

    http://www.jannah.org/morearticles/4.html


  23. #58
    Zuko's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    867
    Threads
    55
    Rep Power
    115
    Rep Ratio
    18
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Stoning to death

    Salaam,

    Just wanted to ask, is it true that stoning is allowed only if there is a caliph? And assuming its true then any stoning that occurs nowadays is haraam? I heard it somewhere a while ago and I just wanted to know if it was true....

    Salaam
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth


  24. #59
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death


    It can only be conducted by the legal authorities of an Islamic state.
    Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

  25. Report bad ads?
  26. #60
    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,520
    Threads
    368
    Rep Power
    120
    Rep Ratio
    8
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Stoning to death

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
    some say its violent,outdated,uncivilised,etc.They called Muslims cavemen.They think denying pre marital sex is not right.and more stuff like that.


    I have already gave you the link that directs you to the article produced by Abdullah Mohammed

    http://www.jannah.org/morearticles/4.html


  27. Hide
Page 3 of 4 First 1 2 3 4 Last
Hey there! Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Stoning to death & Preservation of Hadeeth
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Punishment of stoning to death in Islam
    By Argamemnon in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-28-2010, 09:02 PM
  2. Stoning to death as a punishment
    By BNDGR in forum Discover Islam
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-14-2008, 04:48 AM
  3. Boys Guilty of Stoning Man to Death
    By Muezzin in forum World Affairs
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-01-2007, 04:37 AM
  4. Stoning to Death and its effect on me
    By nydweller in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 06-11-2007, 11:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create