Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam (OP)
This is a little hard to explain right off the bat but is something that is quite important and eye-opening (at least for me.)
This is a multi-part question, it can't be asked outright and I'll reveal the question after another post or two so please bear with me. But any seeker of truth should find this interesting, if it is correct.
Also, I am legitimately looking for answers, so please respond, because this really confuses me about Islam and is one of the things that is, I guess, "holding me back" from your faith. Please help clear this up, part of me wants to go crazy because things don't add up.
1. According to Islamic belief, what is the genealogy from Adam to Noah, from creation to the first destruction? How many people were there and what were there names? Is the Islamic view the same as that of the Torah on this issue? What about after the flood? Are there any reliable genealogies?
2. I know the Torah is held to be inspired by the Islamic faith, but which parts? I know not all of it is considered inspired, but what is and isn't inspired and how do you know it?
3. What verses in the Qu'ran as well as other Islamic beliefs point to the idea that God cannot come in human form, and that Yeshua did not die?
I know some of these have probably been mentioned on the site before, but please bear with me, I would really like to get an honest Muslim to provide their scripture and not someone (me) who is having a hard time interpreting/grasping it.
The passage you quoted shows the existence of three entities :
- GOD
- The Holy Spirit
- Jesus
(I prefer not to take the literal interpretation of the word Son, I'd rather understand it : SON = BELOVED)
But this passage doesn't say that these 3 entities are the same one. Is there something I didn't understand ?
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
We both seem to be in agreement that God(swt) is limitless and all powerful. Where we differ is you see the Trinity as an expression of being limitless, I see it as placing limits on Him.
There is no basis for the Trinity in any of the Monotheistic teachings. This is a concept derived from the wants of man executed through the Errors of Paul and the decisions of Church councils, not a revelation or teaching from God(swt)
The basis for the trinity is drawn from the balance of New Testament scripture!
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.
You still haven't answered what I asked for:
Is there at least one passage in the bible where God states unambiguously without a shadow of doubt that He split Himself into three entities or persons or whatever you call the three trinity units?
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
You still haven't answered what I asked for:
Is there at least one passage in the bible where God states unambiguously without a shadow of doubt that He split Himself into three entities or persons or whatever you call the three trinity units?
Are you being deliberately awkward?
The scriptures show this and all scripture is inspired by GOD(YAHWEH)!
16Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action),
17So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
My ? is.
What is your spin/interpretation of the scripture that I posted?
My interpretation of the Matthew 3:15-17 passage is what I said in the previous post : there is a description of 3 different Entities : GOD, JESUS and HOLY SPIRIT .
But when you mentioned it as a response to naidamar's question : where is the proof from the bible, that these 3 entities are the same thing ?
My interpretation is that the text you quoted does not answer his question.
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by marwen
My interpretation of the Matthew 3:15-17 passage is what I said in the previous post : there is a description of 3 different Entities : GOD, JESUS and HOLY SPIRIT .
But when you mentioned it as a response to naidamar's question : where is the proof from the bible, that these 3 entities are the same thing ?
My interpretation is that the text you quoted does not answer his question.
The understanding comes by 'revelation' from the HOLY SPIRIT!
A grandfather, is also a father and a son at the same time!
1 person with 3 relational roles!
GOD(YAHWEH) has infinite power and can be 3 entities with differrent forms and roles all at the same time!
And I am sure HE could take on more forms if HE wanted/chose to!
But, HE hasn't!
Matthew 3:15-17 (New International Version)
15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
The understanding comes by 'revelation' from the HOLY SPIRIT!
A grandfather, is also a father and a son at the same time!
1 person with 3 relational roles!
GOD(YAHWEH) has infinite power and can be 3 entities with differrent forms and roles all at the same time!
And I am sure HE could take on more forms if HE wanted/chose to!
But, HE hasn't!
Matthew 3:15-17 (New International Version)
15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Just a few questions:
Who is Matthew?
When was the book of Matthew written?
Who determined the book of Matthew was the inspired word of God(swt) and conflicting writings of the same time were determined to be gnostic?
Re: Hidden messages through historical texts, confused about Islam
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
[COLOR=Magenta]
A grandfather, is also a father and a son at the same time!
1 person with 3 relational roles!
You're talking about a different thing : let's say Jack is the father of Marc, and Marc is the father of Stewart : so Marc is the son (of Jack) and the father(of Stewart). So Marc is a father and a son, but in different contexts. Now Stewart is the son of Marc=>Stewart is a SON, and Marc is the FATHER, but he is a SON compared to Jack. Can we say Marc = Stewart, just because Marc is a son, and Stewart is also a son? No ! they are tow different persons.
So I think the example you mentioned is about a different thing, and will not help us with this discussion.
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
GOD(YAHWEH) has infinite power and can be 3 entities with differrent forms and roles all at the same time!
Yes He can but He isn't (at least for me), and he doesn't say he is 3, so he isn't. He's just one.
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
And I am sure HE could take on more forms if HE wanted/chose to!
But, HE hasn't!
Yes, as you say, He can but He isn't.
"O you who believe! Fear ALLAH as He should be feared" [aal 'Imraan, 102]
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