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Source of qur'an ???

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    Source of qur'an ???

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    Brothers,

    I discovered some shocking information.
    Please ... How can we answer to this?

    The Bible explained that Satan is a super-intelligent deceiver.
    It warned that “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light”.
    It warned against “an angel from heaven” who preaches another gospel.
    It gave instructions on how to test “angels” to see if they are from God or from Satan!
    It also did a lot of warning about false prophets, false gospels (glad tidings), etc.

    Note: Since Qur’an does a lot of praising of the “previous” Scriptures,
    perhaps we should be taking all of these warnings very seriously!

    600 years later … an “angel” who called itself “Gabriel” appeared to Mohammed.
    It was NOT tested at all for any kind of authenticity!
    And much of what it said is opposed to what the Bible says.
    The obvious conclusion would be: this false “angel” deceived Mohammed!
    I also discovered that another “angel” deceived Joseph Smith resulting in Mormonism.

    Since Satan is such a super-intelligent deceiver ...
    it certainly makes sense that he would be clever enough to mix TRUTH with LIES.
    If he was the source of the Qur’an, he surely would have done this!

    Brothers, what do you think?
    Habib

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Allah's messenger, peace and blessings be upon him, was illiterate.

    The Qur'aan is the last revelation from God to His messenger SAAS. The previous scriptures were altered and corrupted so the Qur'aan was sent to confirm the earlier scriptures ( Zaboor (Psalms), Torah and Gospel).

    “Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allaah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibraaheem (Abraham), Ismaa’eel (Ishmael), Ishaaq (Isaac), Ya’qoob (Jacob), and to Al-Asbaat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya’qoob (Jacob), and that which has been given to Moosa (Moses) and ‘Eesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)”

    [al-Baqarah 2:136]

    p.s. You are a non-muslim so why disguise yourself as a muslim?..
    Last edited by Asiyah3; 05-28-2010 at 06:32 PM.
    Source of qur'an ???


    Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided. (6:86)

    Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve. (10:62)

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Can't Muslims have an open mind to things which are obvious?
    I'm just asking what my brothers think about these things which are troubling me.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Greetings,



    It's not shocking at all. Just plain nonsense. I'm sure it's been discussed a number of times - here's one place I found:



    The following is an excerpt from the article by Gary Miller, 'The Amazing Qur'an':
    the amazing qur'an
    About seven years ago, I had a minister over to my home. In the particular room which we were sitting there was a Qur'an on the table, face down, and so the minister was not aware of which book it was. In the midst of a discussion, I pointed to the Qur'an and said, "I have confidence in that book." Looking at the Qur'an but not knowing which book it was , he replied, "Well, I tell you, if that book is not the Bible, it was written by a man!" In response to his statement, I said, "Let me tell you something about what is in that book." And in just three to four minutes I related to him a few things contained in the Qur'an. After just those three or four minutes, he completely changed his position and declared, "You are right. A man did not write that book. The Devil wrote it!" Indeed, possessing such an attitude is very unfortunate - for many reasons. For one thing, it is a very quick and cheap excuse. It is an instant exit out of an uncomfortable situation. As a matter of fact, there is a famous story in the Bible that mentions how one day some of the Jews were witnesses when Jesus raised a man from the dead. The man had been dead for four days, and when Jesus arrived, he simply said, "Get up!" and the man arose and walked away. At such a sight, some of the Jews who were watching said disbelievingly, "This is the Devil. The Devil helped him!" Now this story is rehearsed often in churches all over the world, and people cry big tears over it, saying, "Oh, if I had been there, I would not have been as stupid as the Jews!" Yet ironically, these people do exactly what the Jews did when in just three minutes you show them only a small part of the Qur'an and all they can say is, "Oh, the Devil did it. The devil wrote that book!". Because they are truly backed into a corner and have no other viable answer, they resort to the quickest and cheapest excuse available. Another Example of people's use of this weak stance can be found in the Makkans' explanation of the source of Muhammed's message. They used to say, "The devils bring Muhammad that Qur'an!" But just as with every other suggestion made, the Qur'an gives the answer. One verse in particular states:

    "And they say, 'Surely he is possessed [by jinn], 'but it [i.e., the Qur'an] is not except a reminder to the worlds."

    Thus it gives an argument in reply to such a theory. In fact, there are many arguments in the Qur'an in reply to the suggestion that devils brought Muhammad (SAW) his message. For example, in the 26th chapter Allah clearly affirms:

    "No evil ones have brought it [i.e., this revelation] down. It would neither be fitting for them, nor would they be able. Indeed they have been removed far from hearing."

    And in another place in the Qur'an, Allah instructs us:

    "So when you recite the Qur'an seek refuge in Allah from Shaytaan, the rejected."

    Now is this how Satan writes a book? He tells one, "Before you read my book, ask God to save you from me."? This is very, very tricky. Indeed, a man could write something like this, but would Satan do this? Many people clearly illustrate that they cannot come to one conclusion on this subject. On one hand, they claim that Satan would not do such a thing and that even if he could, God would not allow him to; yet, on the other hand, they also believe that Satan is only that much less than God. In essence they allege that the Devil can probably do whatever God can do. And as a result, when they look at the Qur'an, even as surprised as they are as to how amazing it is, they still insist, "The Devil did this!" Thanks be to Allah, Muslims do not have that attitude. Although Satan may have some abilities, they are a long way separated from the abilities of Allah. And no Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes that. It is common knowledge even among non-Muslims that the Devil can easily make mistakes, and it would be expected that he would contradict himself if and when he wrote a book. For indeed, the Qur'an states:

    "Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."
    Source of qur'an ???




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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    the idea is, the quran is a miracle. all miracles are from Allah. hence Allah would not give a miracle to a man who would lead others astray by it.
    Source of qur'an ???

    time for operation ninja Islam

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Moreover, did these people not see the prophecies in their Bible, if they are so keen to see what it says about Islam?

    http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...criptures.html
    Source of qur'an ???




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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    It is common knowledge even among non-Muslims that the Devil can easily make mistakes,
    and it would be expected that he would contradict himself if and when he wrote a book.
    For indeed, the Qur'an states:
    "Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than Allah,

    they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."

    Yes, there certainly is "much discrepancy".
    Anyone reading Qur'an sees the many contradictions and inconsistencies.

    The first one I see is:
    Allah says he sent the prophets and had the Bible written.
    But, if you compare him with the God of the Bible, it is obvious that he is not the God of the Bible.

    The second one I see is:
    Qur'an praises the Bible in MANY different ways, but it teaches against its major doctrines.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    The first one I see is:
    Allah says he sent the prophets and had the Bible written.
    But, if you compare him with the God of the Bible, it is obvious that he is not the God of the Bible.

    The second one I see is:
    Qur'an praises the Bible in MANY different ways, but it teaches against its major doctrines.
    The answer to both these questions is that the Bible has been corrupted (in fact it is still changing). Therefore the original doctrines have long been lost.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    the idea is, the quran is a miracle. all miracles are from Allah.
    hence Allah would not give a miracle to a man who would lead others astray by it.

    Sorry, but it is common knowledge that Satan and his demons can perform signs and wonders.


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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Brother Dagless,

    I have found the answer to this ...
    Link Removed
    To avoid this being a thread about the history of the Bible we can condense why that link is wrong in the following points:

    - the Bible contains contradictions.
    - more than one version of the Bible exist.
    - the Bible was relayed only as a collection of stories/morals/parables from person to person at the start (this is different from the Quran since it was learnt word for word).

    I don't think any of those 3 points are disputed (even amongst Christians).
    Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 05-28-2010 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Anti-Islamic link removed

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Posting anti-Islamic sites is forbidden.
    Source of qur'an ???


    Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided. (6:86)

    Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve. (10:62)

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Moreover, did these people not see the prophecies in their Bible, if they are so keen to see what it says about Islam?

    Brother Mohammed,
    Exactly which ones are you referring to? The ones I've seen have not convinced me.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    To avoid this being a thread about the history of the Bible we can condense why that link is wrong in the following points:

    - the Bible contains contradictions.
    - more than one version of the Bible exist.
    - the Bible was relayed only as a collection of stories/morals/parables from person to person at the start
    (this is different from the Quran since it was learnt word for word).

    I don't think any of those 3 points are disputed (even amongst Christians).

    Brother Dagless,

    - Of course, it does ... because it was written by men!
    But, who cares about such contradictions as how many sheep a man owns, etc. etc.?
    All of it's major important doctrines are in all Bibles. Period. End of story.

    - We're talking about the time of Mohammed ... ONLY ONE VERSION, sorry.
    You'll just have to read the link to get the many proofs.

    - You should have instructed Uthman about the "word for word" perfection, etc.

    Christians don't know anything about Qur'an.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Your link says:

    MUSLIM SCHOLARS INSIST, NO ALTERATION”

    Historically, Muslim scholars (starting with Abdullah ibn Abbas
    who was Mohammed’s cousin and Islam’s premier commentator)
    have stated strongly that the Bible was never altered
    before Mohammed's time.

    And yet in Tafseer Ibn Katheer, it says regarding the verse:


    Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price! [Al-Baqarah: 79]
    Az-Zuhri said that `Ubadydullah bin `Abdullah narrated that Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims! How could you ask the People of the Book about anything, while the Book of Allah (Qur'an) that He revealed to His Prophet is the most recent Book from Him and you still read it fresh and young Allah told you that the People of the Book altered the Book of Allah, changed it and wrote another book with their own hands. They then said, `This book is from Allah,' so that they acquired a small profit by it. Hasn't the knowledge that came to you prohibited you from asking them By Allah! We have not seen any of them asking you about what was revealed to you.'' This Hadith was also collected by Al-Bukhari.
    http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=2445
    So I wouldn't believe anything such sites claim about Muslim scholars... most likely it's misquotations and lies, which is why such links are not acceptable.
    Source of qur'an ???




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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Brother Dagless,

    - Of course, it does ... because it was written by men!
    If you agree to this then how can you seriously continue this thread? :S

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    But, who cares about such contradictions as how many sheep a man owns, etc. etc.?
    All of it's major important doctrines are in all Bibles. Period. End of story.
    There is a thread on here with the contradictions. Its not confined to sheep The word of God should contain no contradiction.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    - We're talking about the time of Mohammed ... ONLY ONE VERSION, sorry.
    This is against established fact. Please provide evidence. As far as I know there have been versions found before the time of the Prophet (pbuh). An example would be the dead sea scrolls.

    - You should have instructed Uthman about the "word for word" perfection, etc.
    Again, please provide proof. There is only one version of the Quran I know of. The oldest to the newest are the same. If anyone at that time had tried to change it I'm sure they would not have survived for very long. Many people knew the entire Quran by heart while the Prophet (pbuh) was alive. It was not just one man.
    Last edited by Dagless; 05-28-2010 at 07:08 PM.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Az-Zuhri said that `Ubadydullah bin `Abdullah narrated that Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims! How could you ask the People of the Book about anything, while the Book of Allah (Qur'an) that He revealed to His Prophet is the most recent Book from Him and you still read it fresh and young Allah told you that the People of the Book altered the Book of Allah, changed it and wrote another book with their own hands. They then said, `This book is from Allah,' so that they acquired a small profit by it. Hasn't the knowledge that came to you prohibited you from asking them By Allah! We have not seen any of them asking you about what was revealed to you.'' This Hadith was also collected by Al-Bukhari.

    1) How would writing a whole new book profit them?

    2) How can I trust the hadiths, which were written by men?
    Now, if the hadith writers claimed to be inspired by Allah, etc., then I might pay more attention.

    But, the BIGGEST PROOF that there was NO ALTERATION BEFORE MOHAMMED is ...
    Mohammed would have warned everyone about the different versions, etc. etc.

    The whole idea about alteration, different versions, etc. is pure nonsense for all kinds of reasons,
    which are outlined in the short LINK, which no one is allowed to read. Too bad.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Dagless,
    Sorry you don't realize that Mohammed was a man.
    Sorry you don't realize Qur'an has dozens of contradictions (major and minor). The Bible's are only minor.
    Sorry you don't realize that you need to look at the short LINK about NO ALTERATION.
    Sorry you don't realize that the Dead Sea scrolls have Isaiah 99.5% identical to today's Bible.

    Isaiah 7:14 from the Dead Sea Scrolls: Isaiah 7:14 from the NKJV Bible:
    therefore [+YHWH+] [m..adonay] himself Therefore the Lord Himself
    will give to you [{a sign}] will give you a sign:
    [{Behold}] the virgin shall conceive Behold, the virgin shall conceive
    and bring forth a son and he shall call and bear a Son, and shall call
    his name Immanuel. His name Immanuel.

    The Hebrew word for “Immanuel”
    means “God with us”

    Isaiah 9:6 from the Dead Sea Scrolls: Isaiah 9:6 from the NKJV Bible:
    Because a child shall be born to us and For unto us a Child is born,
    a son is given to us and the governmentUnto us a Son is given;
    shall be upon his shoulders and And the government will be
    he shall be called wonderful, counsellor,upon His shoulder.
    mighty God, everlasting father, And His name will be called
    the prince of peace. Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    1) How would writing a whole new book profit them?
    To allow things which were forbidden? To gain some personal power? By accident? I don't think the question is relevant. We know it has been changed. The best explanation as to why it was changed cannot change that fact.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    2) How can I trust the hadiths, which were written by men?
    The methods used to verify Hadiths are complex and transparent to anyone who wants to know the method. It is not one person giving their own opinion.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    The whole idea about alteration, different versions, etc. is pure nonsense for all kinds of reasons,
    which are outlined in the short LINK, which no one is allowed to read. Too bad.
    You didn't provide any proof. Just say it in your own words, or name the document. Links are not necessary. I did not paste every revision, I just told you there are older versions than you stated and gave you the name of one of them.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Dagless,
    Sorry you don't realize that Mohammed was a man.
    A prophet is a man. Nobody disputed that. You are confusing Muslim beliefs with your own.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Sorry you don't realize Qur'an has dozens of contradictions (major and minor). The Bible's are only minor.
    I've never seen one.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Sorry you don't realize that you need to look at the short LINK about NO ALTERATION.
    I saw the link. I also told you in very simple terms why it could not be considered accurate.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Dr. Habib Khan View Post
    Sorry you don't realize that the Dead Sea scrolls have Isaiah 99.5% identical to today's Bible.
    So your best example is ONE book out of 70+ and even that is not 100% identical. I'm not sure how this strengthens what you are saying. If anything you should be hiding this fact.
    Last edited by Dagless; 05-28-2010 at 07:37 PM.

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    Re: Source of qur'an ???


    These 2 verses from the Dead Sea Scrollswere copied directly from:
    http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm#c6
    (ignore the line numbers on the left)

    Isaiah 7:14 from the Dead Sea Scrolls:
    therefore [+YHWH+] [m..adonay] himself
    will give to you [{a sign}]
    [{Behold}] the virgin shall conceive
    and bring forth a son and he shall call
    his name Immanuel.

    The Hebrew word for “Immanuel” means “God with us”

    Isaiah 7:14 from the NKJV Bible:
    Therefore the Lord Himself
    will give you a sign:
    Behold, the virgin shall conceive
    and bear a Son, and shall call
    His name Immanuel.


    Isaiah 9:6 from the Dead Sea Scrolls:
    Because a child shall be born to us and
    a son is given to us and the government
    shall be upon his shoulders and
    he shall be called wonderful, counsellor,
    mighty God, everlasting father,
    the prince of peace.

    Isaiah 9:6 from the NKJV Bible:
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be
    upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


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    Re: Source of qur'an ???

    Sounds more like a Christian indirectly praising the Bible? wallahu alam. The bible has been altered countless times and one cannot deny this, not even Christians themselves. As for the Qur'aan having major and minor contradictions, why dont u name some? It is the bible in that state not the Qur'aan.
    Source of qur'an ???

    *Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*


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