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  1. #1
    Aprender's Avatar
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    Revelation 22:18

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    A Christian friend of mine told me that the Qur'an is false because of the following verse:


    Revelation 22:18-19 (King James Version)


    18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    This friend said that the Qur'an goes against the teachings of the Bible because it is an addition to God's word but that's not what I understood from this verse. To me, I understand it as saying that no one should tamper with what is already written into the book and try and change the meaning of it. But this friend was adamant about the Qur'an being false because of this verse and violating God's word. At this point, I'm not sure what to say that will bring clarification.

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    MartyrX's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    My understanding of those verses were if one added or took away from that book.

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    Aprender's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX View Post
    My understanding of those verses were if one added or took away from that book.
    That's what I thought too.

  5. #4
    Tyrion's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    You can't prove the Quran false using the Bible... That automatically assumes that the Bible is true, which is something your friend has to prove first.

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    جوري's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Aprender View Post
    18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    that probably means that Saul/Paul is in a heap of trouble..

    all the best
    Revelation 22:18

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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    YusufNoor's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Aprender View Post
    A Christian friend of mine told me that the Qur'an is false because of the following verse:


    Revelation 22:18-19 (King James Version)


    18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    This friend said that the Qur'an goes against the teachings of the Bible because it is an addition to God's word but that's not what I understood from this verse. To me, I understand it as saying that no one should tamper with what is already written into the book and try and change the meaning of it. But this friend was adamant about the Qur'an being false because of this verse and violating God's word. At this point, I'm not sure what to say that will bring clarification.


    1st things 1st, yer gender & Religion appear to conflict...

    now, the post:

    Revelation is a rather odd book! many early Christians DID NOT consider it as divinely inspired. looking at this list:

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon5.html

    Eusebius, Gregory and a few Church Councils DO NOT endorse it or they flat out reject it.

    and Martin Luther says:

    About this book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment. I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic.

    First and foremost, the apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak clearly of Christ and his deeds, without images and visions. Moreover there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so exclusively with visions and images. For myself, I think it approximates the Fourth Book of Esdras; 8 I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.
    http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html

    then, let's consider it's Theology:

    Peter, in his sermon in Acts, claims Jesus to be God's equal because it is Jesus who sent forth the Holy Spirit on Pentecost:

    [QUOT Acts 2:32 Jesus has been given a place of honor at the right hand of God. He has received the Holy Spirit from the Father. This is what God had promised. It is Jesus who has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 David did not go up to heaven. But he said,
    " 'The Lord said to my Lord,
    "Sit at my right hand.
    35 I will put your enemies
    under your control."[/QUOTE]

    that is sort an "implied" trinity verse, however in Revelation, we read:

    Rev 1:1 This is the revelation that God gave to Jesus Christ. Jesus shows those who serve God what will happen soon. God made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. 2 John gives witness to everything he saw. The things he gives witness to are God's word and what Jesus Christ has said.


    here Jesus STILL acts as God's servant and Messenger [AFTER his "resurrection"] and further we read:

    6 He has made us members of his royal family. He has made us priests who serve his God and Father. Give him glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
    here we seen God listed as the God of Jesus, as well as still referring to God as his Father. so here, God [as Jesus is called in Christian mythology] HAS a God!? if God is Jesus' God, but Jesus isn't God's God, then they CANNOT be equal! One is superior to the other, THIS is polytheism.

    as for the prophecies alleged to be in the book of Revelation, i would bring the matter back to the Theology and pursue that. after all, alot of early Christians DID NOT believe that this book was "divinely inspired." which, OF COURSE, we would agree with!

    Revelation 22:18

    Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire
    http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

  9. #7
    abjad's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Aprender View Post
    Revelation 22:18-19 (King James Version)
    .......King of the Kings version(Kuran Kareem_
    and ....King james version...)

    the choice is yours

  10. #8
    Zuzubu's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Changing the bibble is wrong, but Al-Qur'an is unique, and it isn't the bibble. =)

  11. #9
    Cabdullahi's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by wiino View Post
    .......King of the Kings version(Kuran Kareem_
    and ....King james version...)

    the choice is yours
    loool

    Tell your friend she is sick at the art of contextomy

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    abjad's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii View Post
    contextomy
    my friend
    how many times i informed you
    as am breaking into pieces of my broken english now what is that...
    and what u mean; what do you think if simple english for a simple
    butterfly?

  14. #11
    Rabi Mansur's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Aprender View Post
    A Christian friend of mine told me that the Qur'an is false because of the following verse:


    Revelation 22:18-19 (King James Version)


    18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    This friend said that the Qur'an goes against the teachings of the Bible because it is an addition to God's word but that's not what I understood from this verse. To me, I understand it as saying that no one should tamper with what is already written into the book and try and change the meaning of it. But this friend was adamant about the Qur'an being false because of this verse and violating God's word. At this point, I'm not sure what to say that will bring clarification.

    That is a no brainer. It is a reference to anyone adding to or taking away from the words originally written in the Book of Revelation. I presume that the intent was to prevent a Scribe from changing the language. Sometimes texts were tampered with by Scribes.

    It has nothing to do with adding to the Bible. In fact, lots of scholars are now of the opinion that Revelation was probably written just before the fall of Jerusalem (roughly AD 68). Matthew was probably written about AD 80. Based on your friend's logic the Book of Matthew is adding to God's word.
    Hope this helps.
    Revelation 22:18

    “All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”

    Rumi

  15. #12
    Aprender's Avatar
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    Re: Revelation 22:18

    Quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor View Post


    1st things 1st, yer gender & Religion appear to conflict...

    now, the post:

    Revelation is a rather odd book! many early Christians DID NOT consider it as divinely inspired. looking at this list:

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon5.html

    Eusebius, Gregory and a few Church Councils DO NOT endorse it or they flat out reject it.

    and Martin Luther says:



    http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html

    then, let's consider it's Theology:

    Peter, in his sermon in Acts, claims Jesus to be God's equal because it is Jesus who sent forth the Holy Spirit on Pentecost:

    [QUOT Acts 2:32 Jesus has been given a place of honor at the right hand of God. He has received the Holy Spirit from the Father. This is what God had promised. It is Jesus who has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 David did not go up to heaven. But he said,
    " 'The Lord said to my Lord,
    "Sit at my right hand.
    35 I will put your enemies
    under your control."
    that is sort an "implied" trinity verse, however in Revelation, we read:


    [/B]
    here Jesus STILL acts as God's servant and Messenger [AFTER his "resurrection"] and further we read:



    here we seen God listed as the God of Jesus, as well as still referring to God as his Father. so here, God [as Jesus is called in Christian mythology] HAS a God!? if God is Jesus' God, but Jesus isn't God's God, then they CANNOT be equal! One is superior to the other, THIS is polytheism.

    as for the prophecies alleged to be in the book of Revelation, i would bring the matter back to the Theology and pursue that. after all, alot of early Christians DID NOT believe that this book was "divinely inspired." which, OF COURSE, we would agree with!

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I know they conflict. I explained in a post a while ago why that is but basically I am suffering from cognitive dissonance at the moment. It'll soon be resolved.

    Thank you for those links and the thorough explanation.

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