Need the truth.What's right and what's wrong? (Muslims Only)

Greetings Gintoki, welcome to the forum.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki

I have a question,So Hazrat Adam is a man,and he had a son. Were his son's height long just like his? Because according to what i heard the very first humans were long in height and near the size of a dinosaur. So if We are made of Water and dust. Then other species should also be made of it too,so do the apes have the same amount of water as us?I don't have much knowledge about evolution so i can't say.

Allah made made Adam's physical form with His own Hands. All of the other creations, angels, trees, animals, stars, galaxies, Allah just says 'Be' and They are. This is an honor for the children of Adam.

Adam(as) and the earlier humans were very tall, so it would be logical to believe also that the creatures that lived during His time were proportional to their height also. Meaning that If Adam was 100 ft tall, his chicken would NOT be the chicken of our size, rather it would probably be the size of our elephants or bigger.

Allah knows best.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki

Now my problems with Islam which i would like to discuss.
First thing first,How do you Muslims know that your religion is the correct one? They are many religions out there,and they think they are right and such. Some Muslims are going to say that Islam is the correct one and Quran is a miracle. Allah send signs,the scientific evidence and etc. Anyone would research their religion and find that their religion is correct. According to what i read on the internet,some atheists are saying that these scientific evidence was long discovered before islam by the greeks.

To know why Muslims believe Islam is the correct one or not, you would have to read, research, learn what Muslims believe, how it is different form what others believe.

It's unfair for non-muslims to be born in a non-muslim family. I already know some people are going to say that Allah sends them signs about Quran in some way. But the fact ismsome are going to ignore it as they are already brainwashed from their family that their current religion is correct. Why would they even give a chance to islam when they are already brainwashed? Or some people might not even heard about Quran in their entire life. One of the points why i think Quran is man-made.( No offence to you muslims.)

Do you know Islam's view on the subject, regarding the fate of non-Muslims? not some Muslim's view, or what you have read in the internet, on a forum or yahoo answers? Have you read the Quran, understood it before you 'judge' it to be 'man-made'?

Even believing in Angels and the devils is harder. Devil whispers in our ears to make us do bad deeds? Really?

Do you believe in neutrinos? what about dark-matter? anti-matter? imagine telling a 2-dimensional creature about a 3-dimensional object. talk about 'hard'.

When physicist tell us of neutrinos we believe them, but when the Messenger of the Creator tell us of Angels we doubt, disbelieve them.

Secondly, the Adam and Eve story. So the world was created because Adam ate the forbidden apple.......Seriously? No matter how you look at it,it sounds like a some fairy tale story similar to Santa Claus or unocrns,of course to us non-believers...Some people are going to bring up the arguement that where did we humans come from? To Muslims it's Adam and Eve. But as my counter-arguement,one word 'Evolution'. Atleast that's what atheists believe. Even the apes and humans DNA are 98% the same. Science has proven that we can't have come from Adam and Eve. A while ago i even read an article of old skeletons skull structure being the same as apes. Don't tell me it's false or i will facepalm myself so hard my nose breaks. Even some scientists believe that's there's a 50% chance there's no God,if you research into the creation of universe,there's a chance that world was made by a mere coincidence.

No, the earth existed long before Adam and Eve(peace be upon them both). Second, the subject of evolution and Islam has been discussed so many times, it wouldn't take more than an hour of your time to learn about islam's view on the subject.

Another question, after this world ends,another world would emerge,and process will continue with new people....this process will keep on repeating...this doesn't make sense.

According to what source is this the case?

format_quote Originally Posted by Gintoki

Oh,so what's the evidence?

uh, sorry, the evidence for what? do you mean the evidence for the waswas?

That ahadith is a nice thing but I'm wondering if the same applies to Non-Muslims,because most scholars says they going to hell.

when it comes to specific advice, it would seem logical that the advice is directed to the Muslims. however, whe someone decides to emphatically state that they know who is going to heaven and who is going to hell...well, that is just plain shirk! Allah is Maliki Yawmid Din and HE decides. when offering evidence from the Qur'an about the issue, it is better to just give the evidence, but then try to give ALL the evidence.

most scholars says they going to hell

that and $5.00 will get you an overpriced coffee drink at Starbucks.

ma salaama

i was starting to look up a good tafsir for An Naas, cuz the old ibn Kathir sight seems to be gone, but came across this. i thought you might enjoy it. and i'll keep looking.

this should suffice:

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/tafseer/114.htm

the part that reads:

"0f Jinn and An-Nãs."

is an explanation of who is it that whispers into the breasts of mankind from the devils of mankind and Jinns. This is similar to Allah’s saying,

And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies - Shayatin among mankind and Jinn, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion. (6:112)

Imam Ah

ma salaama

Yahoo Answers? Seriously?? Look at a typical response from that link:

"The Hobbit" makes reference to the existence of mountains. That mountains exist is a scientific fact. This has no bearing on the factual validity of the more fantastic things described in the book. There is nothing more shameful than someone with the ability to reason, who willfully abdicates that ability. Especially in the egocentric notion that they have a personal relationship with a magical entity that creates universes. (rated as “good” by six people)

And for Yahoo Answers that is indeed extremely typical. A lot of the stuff there that actually goes beyond mere childishness still hardly even qualifies as an argument—or really as anything other than pure denial:

Even a broken clock is right once or twice a day depending on whether you use the AM/PM or 24 hour system.

anything can fit the facts if you try hard enough

Like, for example, attempts to deflect the issue with extremely clichéd misconceptions which have nothing to do with anything:

the koran is a very sad second hand version of a myth that was plagarized in the first place—if you had an intellectual honesty you'd see that the koran is myth—based on the myths the hebrews plagarized from the sumerians and egyptians. Because it is a second hand story islam is an even sillier religion that christianity which is sillier than the original judism.

Or just misrepresenting the arguments themselves in the first place:

The earth is NOT shaped like an egg.
The universe is NOT "in a state of gas."

Really there are only a few serious attempts at refutation in the whole bunch. Some of them are attempts to put forth the idea that “the translations have been manipulated” but it doesn’t take much searching to find that there are times when non-Muslim translators like Arberry render some of these passages in similar ways. And hey, I will be the first to admit that there are also times when Muslims will take things too far and see science where it isn’t. In fact I’m usually the first to notice and be annoyed. Not everything is about science. There are some passages where I want to tell them, “Down, boy: don’t get excited now.” Any argument can be taken too far.

Now let’s look at these serious attempts:

Incidentally, these two quotes contradict each other:
"The realization that the embryo develops in stages in the uterus was not discussed or illustrated until the 15th century A.D."
and
"The staging of human embryos was not proposed until the 1940's"

Were the stages illustrated in the 15th century, or not even proposed until the 1940s? If Dr. Moore actually said both of those things, then he was either a liar or a really crappy embryologist.

I don’t know anything about the original quotes nor about Moore. Frankly I don’t care either. I do know that this Moore guy is hardly the point of things. The point is that every stage of a human being’s development, right down the earliest microscopic level, is described in the text. That’s the ticket, guys! Find an inconsistency in the argument regarding the source material and completely ignore the actual subject at hand!

If it isn't expressed in figures, it's not science, it's opinion.

Can you show us an equation expressing the pressure, temperature and volume relationship of a gas, the relationship between force, mass and acceleration, or a simple chemical equation illustrating the production of iron from iron ore using carbon?

What...the...

I’m sorry, who said that The Qur’an actually was science? Last time I checked it wasn’t a biology textbook, it was just a holy text that happened to be highly prescient of what these textbooks contained. Can you show me a passage where there would have been any theological relevance for such a formula? Where it wouldn’t have been silly and awkward for one to somehow be worked into the text? Perhaps this one:

“O tribe of djinn and humans: if you are able to pass beyond the confines of heaven and earth then pass through! You will never pass through without authority! Against you will be loosed the heat of a mixture of (2) 2Cu2O + C ---> 4Cu + Co2 + (1) Zn and high velocity, heated O2, and you will not be helped.”

The shape and size of the Earth was known more than 800 years before the prophet. See Eratosthenes.

Yes, it was calculated once by Eratosthenes—but it was not known in Arabia!

The fact that the Moon reflects light from the Sun was also known to some, hundreds of years before the prophet was born. Some even claimed the Earth went round the Sun.

There is a reason why “some” is considered weasel words at Wikipedia and therefore forbidden.

The fact that the planets are in fixed orbits has been known since very ancient times, at least as far back as the Babylonians, since observations continued over a few years shows that they regularly appear in certain places and follow the same paths through the sky in relation to the "fixed" stars.

This has been known to the Chinese and the Indians too for a very long time. Measurement of the angles subtended at the surface of the Earth (there's those numbers again) will show any person with a glimmering of mathematics that the planets move in something close to circles. Yes, the Babylonians invented the division of a circle into 360 degrees. Why? For astronomical purposes.

But unlike them The Qur’an says that all of these bodies, including those “fixed” stars, follow a course.

As for embryology and reproduction, the butchering of slaughtered animals would show most of that to an ordinary man. Anyone who cared to investigate it more closely could fill in much more detail.

Including the microscopic ones?

Funny how these verses were all interpreted after science found the true answer.

No, there’s nothing remotely funny about that. Like I said this isn’t a textbook. Also I think he’s exaggerating. For example I’m pretty sure there’s a hadith somewhere specifically identifying the seven earths as seven layers to the one earth.

I will believe the science in the Quran the day a Quranic scholar hammers on the door of MIT and says "No you are looking at that the wrong way. The Quran says you must do this". and the scientist does it and lo and behold the Quran is right. But until that happens your quotes are nonsense.

Wow, what kind of a...

Even apart from the above do you really think that MIT scientist would listen to him? Even if his personal pride didn’t get in the way there’s always the empirical nature of his profession to think of. What’s he going to say when reporting what happened, “A little bird told me?”

The are scientific facts in ALL the holy books, and even some Chinese folklore. All mythology also contains some facts.

The Hopi Indians also have a very interesting prophecy that contains Facts.

Finally something interesting. But they still offer no evidence, no examples. None whatsoever. I'm guessing that the Hopi prophecy in question is the one quoted at the end of "Koyaanisqatsi", which has long since been exposed as a likely hoax. Feel free to look into it yourself. In any event it is nothing, nothing on the huge number of prophecies Muhammad has made, most of which were expressed in fairly clear terms, have come true by now, and have been listed on this board.

1. The accuracy of the Qur'an is not remarkable. All of its accurate points can be explained by simple observation of nature or by selective interpretation of scriptures.

2. Accuracy on individual points does not indicate overall accuracy. Just about every thesis that is wrong overall still has some accurate points in it.

This is a classic ploy by skeptics. If they come across something too accurate for them to explain then—without offering a single example, without offering any evidence at all—they just appeal to the general nature of their experience, in which people will overlook the misses and remember only the hits (when listening to a cold reader, for example). That they’re making such a non-sequitur is the key to understanding the true nature of this argument: it’s a projection. They’re the ones who are really overlooking the hits that they’re seeing right now in favor of whatever it is that they’re falsely perceiving to be misses, and using the “misses” as an excuse to ignore the evidence. The Qur’an describes such people as we seem to be looking at here quite a few times, and not in very complimentary terms, but I shall refrain from quoting it.

3. Claims about accuracy assume that the purpose of the Qur'an is to document scientific data. The purpose of the Qur'an is to teach religion, not science.

Straw man attack. It assumes nothing. It’s just that a few scientific facts happened to be dropped along the way during a book whose purpose is to teach us religion. Which isn’t to say that God was making a mistake or anything but science is not the thesis. Again it’s not a biology textbook is what I’m saying. If this book can stop every now and then to discuss a subject for one verse which doesn’t get brought up a second time then why couldn’t it sometimes touch on something scientific in an incidental way?

4. If the Qur'an's value is made to depend on scientific accuracy, it becomes valueless when people find errors in it, as some people invariably will.

Another straw man, with an unsupported claim tacked on top of it to boot. Yes, I know, every rationalist believes this quite stubbornly. Those poor, bruja stick-waving religions are stuck in the past and therefore inevitably leave the stamp of the past upon them. But you’ll notice they’re not showing us any errors. They just speak of this as some vague theoretical future possibility.

5. If occasional scientific accuracy shows overall accuracy of the Qur'an, the same conclusion must be granted to the Bible, Zend Avesta, and several other works from other religions, all of which can make the same claims to scientific accuracy.

Again, they just say this and expect us to take our word for it. It’s like just because they see all religions as being equally nonsensical and mythical, they expect everyone else in the world to be the same as them. Can anyone but the most blindly arrogant people think like this?

Let me repeat those words from earlier: “There is nothing more shameful than someone with the ability to reason, who willfully abdicates that ability.” Actually most of the page might be summed up well with this one quote:

I just don't want to read the Koran—I have no interest in the Koran—I don't care what it says.

I have been getting mixed answers about the fate of non-Muslims

Of course you have. That proves nothing. Is there a single thing you could ask a mixed group of people, especially at a message board, and not receive mixed answers about?

I read 83 pages of the Quran. Yes i believe in those things. But angels and devils are supernatural things.

I think it’s high time to unburden yourself then. If you believe in 83 pages in a row then chances are you believe in the rest too. Everybody has emotional issues from time to time. Learn to recognize them for what they are and then tell your emotions to take a hike. Fill yourself with positive feelings instead. Watch something really funny. Talk a walk amidst pleasant scenery and notice how surrounded you are with sources of thankfulness and praise. Read a book you enjoy.

And according to this source:
islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa4175

What exactly is your point? Judgment Day appears to be a time in which now that the world is coming to a close its laws are starting to be unraveled with it, or something like that. If this is about science then, again, people are going to say different things regarding every topic. "Plurality in beliefs inclineth a man's mind to atheism [but not for an even remotely good reason]."

So devil whispers in our ears and gives us bad intentions. So i did a test on myself,i myself thought of bad intentions,then stopped,then again and process repeats. So yup devil whispering in my ears when it's my own mind thinking that.

Dude, whoever said that no bad intentions ever come from anywhere else on any occasion?!