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    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

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    I will be posting this in two or three sections of the forums, because I am hoping to get some good answers. Moderators, I ask that you allow this. I am just someone who is seeking the truth, yes?

    I pray now that God might guide me to the truth, that he may open the eyes of my understanding. People reading this, pray for me as well, that the confusion might be removed and the understanding of God and who he is might grace my mind.



    I want to start off by saying I have basically explored every religion / philosophy in the world in the search for "the truth" -- Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Daoism, Zoroastrianism, Odinism, Druidism, VooDoo, Siberian Shamanism, various folk beleifs, various Pagan ways, even occult ways, such as Satanism, left hand path, Wicca, other old hidden ways from our ancestors. I have basically explored pretty much everything out there, in my search for the truth.



    When I was at my final stage, I was deep into Occultism, and my ways were very wicked and dark, and I was communing with the wrong types of spirits, doing very bad things, I was very deep into darkness. It was a bad time for me. Part of it was selfish, I wanted some of the things these occult ways said was possible, and also part of me wanted the deeper truth.



    Regardless, eventually, I was deep into wickedness and darkness, and like a flash it came to me. It was like the veil had lifted from my eyes, and I had finally seen the error of my ways, I had finally seen how wrong the things were which I was doing. I realized in that moment, "there is no God but God, he IS" -- it's almost like I had an understanding beyond English language -- it's like I realized that God IS -- that he IS -- it's hard to explain beyond that.



    Having grown up in a Christian household, I repented and accepted Jesus. I was taught before, that this is how it comes. The Holy Spirit witnesses to you, your wrongdoings, that you may repent and come to God for mercy.



    At this point, Islam was basically the only religion / spiritual way that I had not researched much. When I was younger, I had a Muslim friend in school that taught me some about Islam, and even gave me an awesome Quran with a red cover -- it was a Yusuf Ali translation. It had transliteration as well. But, that being said, I never went tooo deep into it. Honestly, when I saw how much obligation a Muslim has, I think I turned my back on Islam. Well, that was a very different time.



    Anyways, here I was, God had just witnessed to me the error of my ways, and I had repented and turned to Christianity. But, I never really liked Christianity much. Something just always felt wrong to me. I got baptized, yes. I started to listen to sermon after sermon of Christian teachings, and I went REALLY deep into it. I don't know if Muslims have sermons, so I will explain. Sermons are basically where the preachers will teach like maybe a hour or two hours about a subject, certain spiritual principles, just preaching on various subjects found within the Bible.



    I will say, that, Christian preaching has brought a certain understanding of God's principles to my mind, and helped me to understand who God is and how he works. Even right now, I can kind of see God in a kind of abstract way. He is there, although he is unseen, he flows through all things. He is silent, most of the time. He doesn't talk much, for some reason. That being said, he doesn't actually have to talk, to do what he does. That part is complicated for me to explain. He works differently than us, yes? He is less complicated in his ways, as he has a perfect understanding of things, so he doesn't thrash around as we do in life. He just does what he does, when he does it, because he knows best. So, I can see him in an abstract way. It's not that I see a face or something, it's more-like I see his qualities, and adding them all together provides a big picture to look at.



    I have to say, there is a theory floating around my brain. Perhaps the spiritual principles I have learned through Christianity about God is true. Perhaps the teachings in the Bible has allowed me to come closer to God, and understand his nature more. But, I am currently doubting if the Bible's representation of Jesus is the truth. Perhaps all those spiritual principles I've learned, perhaps it is all separate. Because honestly, ever since I became a Christian, I was always extremely uncomfortable in church. It always felt wrong to me, the way Christians live their lives, even some Christian teachings. It's always felt wrong to me, what Christians revolve around. They go to church on Sunday, sing songs about Jesus for maybe a hour, then they listen to preaching, and that's it for them until next week. I've always found that the everyday Christian, in everyday life, it's very dead spiritually. Christianity always teaches that a personal relationship with God is important, and it's the focus of Christianity. But, I don't know of any Christians that actually have a deep relationship with God. It's like there's a bit of a disconnect, something that is holding us back from our true potential with God. It's almost like they go to church out of some religious obligation, and then they go their own way for the rest of the week. And this worshiping of Jesus, how he died on the cross for our sins, meh. I always found it extremely uncomfortable that "worship" to many Christians is basically just singing some songs on Sunday, and the rest of the week they are no better than pagans or other worldly people. Even if they practice Christian virtue in their lives and treat others good, and show love to others, and stand against wickedness, Christians are honestly just lacking a spirit of dedication to God in my opinion. And there is a lack of a true connection with God to the everyday Christian. I don't know of any Christians that are truly close to God. It's a shame that a hour of singing songs is pretty much all that the average Christian does for God, too. I always thought that God deserves more than a couple of songs. I always thought that singing these songs of "worship", was hypocritical. It just always felt wrong to me, all of it. I've always felt like God should have the dedication of all your ways. That you should revolve your life around him, and do as much as you can for him, because he is God and he is worthy. I've always found it very important to pursue God whole-hardheartedly. I'm not just talking religious obligation, I'm talking about having a personal relationship with Him. Loving him, being close to him, walking through life with him. Relying and depending on him. Doing your best to be close with him. But with Christianity, I feel like regardless of what I do, I can't be close with God the way I want to be close with him. It's like there's a barrier between me and God. And I don't want that -- I want to be as close to God as I possibly can. I realize that this life is like nothing, and that one should cast away the things of this world and put God first in every situation. It is better to love God, and trust in him, and let him guide you in life.



    So, I have some question for you folks, and I'd appreciate some honest answers, because I am curious about the Muslim perspective.



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Is being close with God something that exists within Islam? Do people pursue God, not out of obligation, but of love and devotion, just out of the general spirit of wanting to be close with God? In Christianity, it's taught, the importance of a personal relationship with God. Does Islam speak about the importance of a personal relationship with God? Letting him guide you in your ways, relying on him, loving him, being close with him, putting him first, talking and walking with Him? I am not interested in a system of beliefs that is all obligation, you know? All religion and no spirituality. I want to have a very deep relationship with God, and walk in his ways. I want to be truly close with Him. A personal relationship. I want to interact with God. I am currently unsatisfied with Christianity because I feel like, regardless of what I've done, it's not actually possible to be close with God. It feels like there is some hindrance here, you know? So, I am wondering if Christianity is the reason I can't be close to God the way I'd like, if Christianity is the hindrance.



    My main goal in life, well, is simple. I don't care about material things, or jobs, or women, or children, or respect, or the admiration of people. I don't care about wealth, or power. The things of this world, they have no interest to me. All I care about in life, is being close with God. To me, everything besides God is secondary. Even if I must suffer for God's sake, suffer incredibly, I prefer that to being distant from God. It is my mission in life, and has always been my mission, to become as close as I can to God. Everything in life is secondary, and nothing else will ever satisfy me, besides that closeness with God. Because, God is the truth, and well, I want to go as deep as I possibly can with Him. I don't want to be like the everyday lay person, I want more out of life. I have realized in my sufferings that the things of this world are all incapable of satisfying, they are all temporary pleasures that distract you. The things of this world... they are all meaningless to me, compared to God.



    Is Islam all religion? Or is there spirituality there, too? I hope you see from my post, what type of person I am. From what I read, Sufism interests me very much. As I said, the things of this world are secondary to me to God. It is my desire to become closer with God, have a personal relationship with Him, walk with Him.



    I am asking for a reason. In Christianity, there are many sermons that you can find online. This is Christians teaching spiritual principles found within the Bible. Deeper, spiritual principles about life. Is there a Muslim equivalent?



    What is the importance of faith, within Islam? For Christians, faith is supposed to drive our everyday lives, and everything we do. We are supposed to have a personal relationship with God. For example, we can pray to God, that we need a new car. Then, we wait and have patience, and eventually if we have faith in God, he will perfectly execute an answer to your prayer. It doesn't always go the way you want, of course. For example, maybe you hoped for that brand new racing car, but God says, you must take this other car. We may get mad because we don't understand, but God knows best. So, it doesn't always go the way we want, or it doesn't always happen when we want it to happen, but God knows best -- and he will bless you if you remain faithful.



    It is actually a Christian principle, to be "led by the Spirit". That God talks to us, through our conscience. For example, if we are at a car dealership, we may get a witness about a certain car. Witness? For you Muslims that maybe don't know? It's like a sense we get -- not a feeling. A quickening, within our hearts. It's being led by God directly. Maybe our feelings want a certain car, but we get a sense about a different car. This is how we say, we have a personal relationship with God.



    It is a HUGE Christian spiritual principle, to not be led by the flesh, but to be led by the Spirit. It is said, that the flesh is all things wicked -- gluttonous, lustful, greedy, ext. So, we can't always trust our feelings (flesh), and have to go by what the Spirit witnesses to us. That is actually the purpose of baptism in Christianity. It's a symbolic act, representing the death of the flesh, and life in the Spirit. It's also said, that the conscience is how God witnesses to us the Law directly. It was a big thing with the Jews, for example the Pharisees, to memorize the Law and try to follow it. But, it's said, that with Jesus, we don't need to do that anymore. He paid for our sins, so basically all we need to do is follow our hearts. Because, the Law has been transformed, and it is now written on our hearts. So, if we sin and we know it, we are made aware of it in our heart by the witness of God -- and then we repent, and that's it. But, if we don't know that something is a sin, and we do it, then it is not sin for us. Because, for us, sin is a violation of the light that we personally have. So, if you don't have light about a certain subject, then it's not sin for you if you do it. Of course, it is taught that God will eventually reveal to you and work with you to stop sinful behaviors, it's a growing process after all. And it's said, the more we are obedient to our consciences, the sharper it becomes, and the more we can hear from God in our everyday lives.



    So, these are just some examples of Christian spirituality. I am curious, and seriously now guys, is there an Islamic equivalent? Is Islam all religion? Or is there spirituality too? Is there the personal relationship? Do you have similar teachings in the Quran, or the Hadith?



    Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and respond to it. May God guide us all to the truth.
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    medico's Avatar
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by xChris View Post


    [/SIZE]

    Is being close with God something that exists within Islam? Do people pursue God, not out of obligation, but of love and devotion, just out of the general spirit of wanting to be close with God? In Christianity, it's taught, the importance of a personal relationship with God. Does Islam speak about the importance of a personal relationship with God? Letting him guide you in your ways, relying on him, loving him, being close with him, putting him first, talking and walking with Him? I am not interested in a system of beliefs that is all obligation, you know? All religion and no spirituality. I want to have a very deep relationship with God, and walk in his ways. I want to be truly close with Him. A personal relationship. I want to interact with God. I am currently unsatisfied with Christianity because I feel like, regardless of what I've done, it's not actually possible to be close with God. It feels like there is some hindrance here, you know? So, I am wondering if Christianity is the reason I can't be close to God the way I'd like, if Christianity is the hindrance.

    Peace be with you brother , glad to know that u want to learn about islam. We would be happy to help you.
    In islam , we do have a deep relationship with God. It's just as u want it brother.
    My main goal in life, well, is simple. I don't care about material things, or jobs, or women, or children, or respect, or the admiration of people. I don't care about wealth, or power. The things of this world, they have no interest to me. All I care about in life, is being close with God. To me, everything besides God is secondary. Even if I must suffer for God's sake, suffer incredibly, I prefer that to being distant from God. It is my mission in life, and has always been my mission, to become as close as I can to God. Everything in life is secondary, and nothing else will ever satisfy me, besides that closeness with God. Because, God is the truth, and well, I want to go as deep as I possibly can with Him. I don't want to be like the everyday lay person, I want more out of life. I have realized in my sufferings that the things of this world are all incapable of satisfying, they are all temporary pleasures that distract you. The things of this world... they are all meaningless to me, compared to God.

    ur belief is utmost correct. All these worldly pleasures are temporary. We are taught in islam to not love this world. Coz our home is paradise nd we have to strive hard to achieve it. This world is temporary.This life is a test. If we pass this test, we'll be granted paradise but if we fail, hell is waiting for us. So we have to good deeds so as to go to our real home(paradise). Allah(God) has already given us guidance,now it's on us whether we follow it or not.

    I am asking for a reason. In Christianity, there are many sermons that you can find online. This is Christians teaching spiritual principles found within the Bible. Deeper, spiritual principles about life. Is there a Muslim equivalent?
    U can find many muslim scholars online. For eg. Mufti menk, sheikh yasir qadhi, sheikh omar Sulaiman,nd many more.

    What is the importance of faith, within Islam? For Christians, faith is supposed to drive our everyday lives, and everything we do. We are supposed to have a personal relationship with God. For example, we can pray to God, that we need a new car. Then, we wait and have patience, and eventually if we have faith in God, he will perfectly execute an answer to your prayer. It doesn't always go the way you want, of course. For example, maybe you hoped for that brand new racing car, but God says, you must take this other car. We may get mad because we don't understand, but God knows best. So, it doesn't always go the way we want, or it doesn't always happen when we want it to happen, but God knows best -- and he will bless you if you remain faithful.

    Yes , this is a fact. God accepts our prayers, but if it is not gud for us , then we are given something better.
    It is actually a Christian principle, to be "led by the Spirit". That God talks to us, through our conscience. For example, if we are at a car dealership, we may get a witness about a certain car. Witness? For you Muslims that maybe don't know? It's like a sense we get -- not a feeling. A quickening, within our hearts. It's being led by God directly. Maybe our feelings want a certain car, but we get a sense about a different car. This is how we say, we have a personal relationship with God.

    I don't think there's such a thing called led by the spirit in islam. Islam is very simple. As human beings we are given full choice in our lives. Allah has already taught us what is right nd what's wrong. Now we have to make a choice. Allah given us full authority to make a choice.
    It is a HUGE Christian spiritual principle, to not be led by the flesh, but to be led by the Spirit. It is said, that the flesh is all things wicked -- gluttonous, lustful, greedy, ext. So, we can't always trust our feelings (flesh), and have to go by what the Spirit witnesses to us. That is actually the purpose of baptism in Christianity. It's a symbolic act, representing the death of the flesh, and life in the Spirit. It's also said, that the conscience is how God witnesses to us the Law directly. It was a big thing with the Jews, for example the Pharisees, to memorize the Law and try to follow it. But, it's said, that with Jesus, we don't need to do that anymore. He paid for our sins, so basically all we need to do is follow our hearts. Because, the Law has been transformed, and it is now written on our hearts. So, if we sin and we know it, we are made aware of it in our heart by the witness of God -- and then we repent, and that's it. But, if we don't know that something is a sin, and we do it, then it is not sin for us. Because, for us, sin is a violation of the light that we personally have. So, if you don't have light about a certain subject, then it's not sin for you if you do it. Of course, it is taught that God will eventually reveal to you and work with you to stop sinful behaviors, it's a growing process after all. And it's said, the more we are obedient to our consciences, the sharper it becomes, and the more we can hear from God in our everyday lives.

    I already told u there's no such thing like spirit choosing for us. This is right that if we don't know that an act is a sin, then we are not held responsible. But if we know ,nd still do it, then there's a time interval of 6hrs between the committing of sin and writing of sin in our records, if we repent in that time, then it's not written.Nd even if we forgot to repent or became hopeless nd it's written, still we r forgiven if we repent afterwards. He is the most merciful.
    So, these are just some examples of Christian spirituality. I am curious, and seriously now guys, is there an Islamic equivalent? Is Islam all religion? Or is there spirituality too? Is there the personal relationship? Do you have similar teachings in the Quran, or the Hadith?

    I would recommend you to please read quran. U will find so much peace in the words of God. Ponder over it ,think that it is addressing you.
    And also check the following Youtube channels:
    Merciful servants
    Prophet's path
    IluvAllah
    and also the scholars which I told u. Ur doubts will be cleared Inshallah.
    I forgot to mention Jesus (peace be upon him) was just a prophet. Most of the Christians believe in that Trinity thing. But it's wrong , he was just a prophet sent by the God. and he was not crucified. He was taken directly to heaven. He will return soon.


    May Allah guide u.
    Last edited by medico; 05-01-2020 at 01:23 AM.

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    *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by xChris View Post
    Is being close with God something that exists within Islam? Do people pursue God, not out of obligation, but of love and devotion, just out of the general spirit of wanting to be close with God? In Christianity, it's taught, the importance of a personal relationship with God. Does Islam speak about the importance of a personal relationship with God? Letting him guide you in your ways, relying on him, loving him, being close with him, putting him first, talking and walking with Him? I am not interested in a system of beliefs that is all obligation, you know? All religion and no spirituality. I want to have a very deep relationship with God, and walk in his ways. I want to be truly close with Him. A personal relationship. I want to interact with God. I am currently unsatisfied with Christianity because I feel like, regardless of what I've done, it's not actually possible to be close with God. It feels like there is some hindrance here, you know? So, I am wondering if Christianity is the reason I can't be close to God the way I'd like, if Christianity is the hindrance.
    In Islam you should have both your faith and your obligations as a worshipper. We do not just solely believe in Allah and love him, but we also must with our actions worship Him, call out to Him, pray, etc. Of course we do this out of our love for our Lord, but also as a part of obedience to him as we consider ourselves His servants. Even if we don't necessarily feel like praying or fasting, it is obligatory on us to do so because there is a bigger picture beyond just doing it out of love. Prayer for example, is what differentiates the believer from disbelievers. You don't see other religions praying in the same manner as Muslims do. It promotes unity and brotherhood. It's amazing to know that one day you can be praying next to your brother, friend, and tomorrow it could be next to a complete stranger who comes from a different part of the world. You're all there unified for one purpose and yet there is a differentiator in your hearts which does not go unrecognized, and that is your love for Allah, sincerity, and intentions. In fact in Islam, if you are able to do your worship it means Allah loves you. Prayer is your direct connection with Allah and no one can take that away. So I won't sugarcoat our religion and make it seem that it is ONLY spiritual belief. Yes we absolutely should be well-intended, loving, devoted etc, but our actions should be representative of that and we have to do it in the correct manner. Also just because we have a bad day and don't feel like praying it is an excuse not to pray. Praying is obligatory on Muslims because it's a reminder that no matter what happens in your life, you are still a servant to Allah and that you are worshipping the One who can ease your situation. We pray because we know that is what Allah asks for us to do. Your worship to Him is the foundation, everything else can be built on that in terms of how you treat the people around you, how you build your character, your manners, etc. but if you neglect something that He Himself requests for you to do and tells you how much it pleases him to know his servant is fulfilling it, then you are not worshipping Allah, you are worshipping your desires. The biggest reward in the afterlife is not paradise, it's seeing Allah. So may we all be worthy of meeting Him! I also want to make a differentiation between prayer (salaah) and supplication (du'a). Supplication is when we call out to Allah at any time we need whereas prayer is obligatory worship that has a fixed time.


    I will continue this post later on as I'm quite busy today, however please watch the following as it may help shed some understanding:


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    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    In Islam you should have both your faith and your obligations as a worshipper. We do not just solely believe in Allah and love him, but we also must with our actions worship Him, call out to Him, pray, etc. Of course we do this out of our love for our Lord, but also as a part of obedience to him as we consider ourselves His servants. Even if we don't necessarily feel like praying or fasting, it is obligatory on us to do so because there is a bigger picture beyond just doing it out of love. Prayer for example, is what differentiates the believer from disbelievers. You don't see other religions praying in the same manner as Muslims do. It promotes unity and brotherhood. It's amazing to know that one day you can be praying next to your brother, friend, and tomorrow it could be next to a complete stranger who comes from a different part of the world. You're all there unified for one purpose and yet there is a differentiator in your hearts which does not go unrecognized, and that is your love for Allah, sincerity, and intentions. In fact in Islam, if you are able to do your worship it means Allah loves you. Prayer is your direct connection with Allah and no one can take that away. So I won't sugarcoat our religion and make it seem that it is ONLY spiritual belief. Yes we absolutely should be well-intended, loving, devoted etc, but our actions should be representative of that and we have to do it in the correct manner. Also just because we have a bad day and don't feel like praying it is an excuse not to pray. Praying is obligatory on Muslims because it's a reminder that no matter what happens in your life, you are still a servant to Allah and that you are worshipping the One who can ease your situation. We pray because we know that is what Allah asks for us to do. Your worship to Him is the foundation, everything else can be built on that in terms of how you treat the people around you, how you build your character, your manners, etc. but if you neglect something that He Himself requests for you to do and tells you how much it pleases him to know his servant is fulfilling it, then you are not worshipping Allah, you are worshipping your desires. The biggest reward in the afterlife is not paradise, it's seeing Allah. So may we all be worthy of meeting Him! I also want to make a differentiation between prayer (salaah) and supplication (du'a). Supplication is when we call out to Allah at any time we need whereas prayer is obligatory worship that has a fixed time.


    I will continue this post later on as I'm quite busy today, however please watch the following as it may help shed some understanding:


    Just to emphasize I highly recommend this video
    | Likes Avis liked this post
    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    "My servants, you who have transgressed against yourselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Truly Allah forgives all wrong actions. He is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Merciful." (Surat az-Zumar: 53)

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Hello, friends. I seriously appreciate all of you guys taking the time to respond to my post. I already know a lot about Islam, suprisingly, but I guess I am always like that. I have watched a lot of videos, they actually have good debates and discussions on YouTube. I'm going to link a couple of them. I think you guys could recommend these videos for people who want to convert.

    This was the first two I watched, it's a debate of sorts between a Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim.

    youtube.com/watch?v=INIG636SnU4

    And this is the 2nd part
    youtube.com/watch?v=tWtOlwv3Qg8

    These two videos are kind of what my starting point was. Then, I listened to a conversation between Dr. James White and Dr. Yasir Qadhi

    First Part
    youtube.com/watch?v=updtj99Fp80

    Second Part
    youtube.com/watch?v=r2tPHLOej1w

    So, these were some good videos.

    Then I was interested in the life of Muhammad, so I watched the Kahn Academy videos

    It starts with this one,
    youtube.com/watch?v=4NT_btkLlho

    But Khan academy has really good videos going over the history of Islam, the start, key events, and the spread of Islam.

    I have to say, one thing that I've read about Islam in general that is very convincing to me, is the fact that Muhammad was illiterate, and not scholarly at all. Nor did he readily have access to Jewish or Christian texts (as far as I know),

    I've kind of come to a few mental conclusions. Please, don't be offended, by the way. One possibility, Gabriel really did come to Muhammad and Islam is the next and final chapter


    Another, a demon came to Muhammad posing as an angel of light (which demons can do), and taught a false doctrine to pull people away from Christianity,

    Or, none of that happened and the teachings was carefully constructed by human hands

    I know you guys don't like me saying stuff like this, but I tend to consider all possibilities. So that's kind of where I am.

    I am on the fence about Islam right now and I am basically just praying to God and praying that he will guide me to the truth, and I am remaining faithful. I will not so easily convert, I am a very loyal person.

    Anyways, I thank you all for your responses. You guys have been very convincing to say the least. And thank you, for linking that video. I will watch it.

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    This is a link, by the way, to a PDF that showed me a LOT about Islam. It's like, an all encompassing teaching of the Islamic beleifs. It's called "The Complete Idiots Guide to Islam" I think. I recommend anyone check this out if they're interested in Islam


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...eTubYZoKCKr96t

    ...

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by xChris View Post
    I've kind of come to a few mental conclusions. Please, don't be offended, by the way. One possibility, Gabriel really did come to Muhammad and Islam is the next and final chapter


    Another, a demon came to Muhammad posing as an angel of light (which demons can do), and taught a false doctrine to pull people away from Christianity,

    Or, none of that happened and the teachings was carefully constructed by human hands

    I know you guys don't like me saying stuff like this, but I tend to consider all possibilities. So that's kind of where I am.
    Christianity was not the main issue during the time of the prophet pbuh. People at that time were mainly worshipping idols, burying their daughters, and practicing shameful things. Christianity would have been better for them at that time than what the terrible things they were practicing. Islam preaches monotheism just as it was preached in Christianity and Judaism, so there is no "pull away" from either of those religions. They are and will be considered from Allah just as the Quran is, however in these scriptures there are differences that we must reject as Muslims. For example, the Bible attributes major sins to the prophets pbuh which are rejected in Islam as the prophets are meant to be exemplary people. Instead we have to align ourselves with the most correct belief out of these 3 religions, and of course that would be Islam.

    In regards to demons posing as angels, this isn't a concept in Islam. It makes no sense why something encompassing trickery and evil would preach true monotheism when their purpose is to misguide and cause mischief away from Allah altogether. There are events that happen by Allah's will only that cannot be done through any other creature. I don't know what you believe in in regards to other beings on this earth, but in Islam jinn, angels, and humans are distinguishable and have very specific traits, and none of them are comparable to our Creator.
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    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

  10. #8
    xChris's Avatar
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    I get that you said it makes no sense, why a malicious being would promote monotheism and obedience to God. I actually don't have a problem with Islam at all, I think the teachings are good teachings. Certainly, I'm not saying there's evil there.

    But I said that because Christians have very different opinions than Muslims when it comes to salvation. We are taught, the only way to salvation is through Jesus. It says, the only way to the Father, is through the Son. It also says beware of people preaching messages other than this. I would not say any Islamic teaching is necessarily super contradictory to Christianity besides the salvation point. And this is why I said that's a possibility in my mind. Because, if Jesus is the only way to salvation, and there is a being teaching Muhammad this is not the case, then it's contradictory to the Bible.

    This is the point, from a Christian perspective. We beleive, from the time of Adam until the Law was revealed, there was no punishment for sin. Then, the Law came and created death in the Jewish people.

    It says, if you break even one point of the Law, it's as if you've broken the entire Law, and are condemned. In old testament times, the Jewish people would do ritual sacrifices to God to cover up their sins, but this was not the same as having forgiveness, it was just a covering up.

    So then, it's said that the Law is basically death for the people, and it's said that works of the Law are works of death.

    Then we have Jesus. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law. The Law that God sent down, will always be the Law. It's said though, that we are no longer bound by the Law though. So, no purpose in following the Law, or memorizing the Law, or trying to be perfect through our works. A main point in Christianity is that these works, trying to achieve salvation by our own means, such as following the Law, this is death, and it's not even possible. Because the Bible teaches, even if you break one point of the Law, you are condemned as if breaking the entire Law.

    So, this is why Jesus came in our perspective. To live a perfect life without sin, and to bear the sins of humanity. This way, we are released from the obligations of the Law. And because of the forgiveness in his sacrifice, it is taught this is how we can have a personal relationship with God, through the Holy Spirit, who came after Jesus left.

    So, this is why I have some trouble from Islam. It seems like a major step back, and a contradiction to the entire Jewish / Christian teachings. It should be noted, that the Torah does not contradict the New Testament. It's mentioned in the Torah many times, that Jesus will come to die for our sins, there are many hints in the Torah confirming what is said, in the new testament.

    So, Islam is a step back from that, you know? It teaches a different message than that which came before, and it disrupts the flow. Christianity is clearly the next step after the Jewish teachings, and any Jewish person who rejects Christian teaching... They are blind.

    But, it's hard to say that Islam is the next step after Christianity, because it is completely contradictory. Once again, Christianity is clearly the next step after Judaism, but Islam goes backwards and rejects what came before.

    I know you guys say the previous teachings has been corrupted, but the Torah supports the New Testament teachings. The New Testament doesn't support the Quran though.

    So, it's a battle. As I said. I remain open to Islam, and I will let God guide me

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    I highly recommend that you download a free book regarding comparison of Islam and Christianity, this would help you to put the missing pieces together.

    https://iera.org/wp-content/uploads/...een_Nov17-.pdf

    May Allah make it easy for you to see and follow the truth in this blessed month. Ameen!

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    I have to say, thanks for the reply guys. I have been reading the Bible, and closely examining it. I am in Genesis right now. It started, with me really taking a step back and examining things.
    First off, you can feel free to read the Jewish old testament at http://www.mechon-mamre.org/ -- this is from the Jewish people who are still practicing Judaism,

    First, I examined if the Jewish Scripture, and I am currently going through it (I'm in Genesis right now) to see any mention or support of the Trinity (ie Father, Son, Holy Spirit), or any mention of a Son of God savior (Jesus)
    I am going to go through the entire Old Testament for myself, and see for myself.

    I thought to myself, if the Jewish text does not support the idea of a trinity, or a savior like Jesus that would die for our sins, then what's going on?
    I have to examine the scripture for myself, take a hard look at everything.
    Right now I am in the process of putting things together and examining the scripture.

    If the Jewish scripture does not support Christian ideas (like I thought it did), then I have to believe the Islamic perspective that these texts are corrupted.
    Already, just reading Genesis, I am seeing so many contradictions in the Jewish scripture.

    These things, I were not even looking for them. I just noticed these contradictions as I was reading Genesis.

    Listen to this,

    First off, the first supportive statement that I saw for a trinity was Genesis 3:22
    http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0103.htm

    "And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.'

    "One of us" is what I am referring to. Sounds like in this scripture, God is talking to someone, it doesn't say who he is talking to, but he said Man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil.
    Perhaps in this instance, God was talking with an angel when he was saying this? Perhaps this is a supportive statement of the trinity? I'm unsure.

    That being said, as I continued to read through Genesis, I saw many contradictions in the scripture.
    Genesis 4:6-7

    6: And the LORD said unto Cain: 'Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
    7: If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door; and unto thee is its desire, but thou mayest rule over it.'

    So, here God is saying to Cain, you are basically giving a weak sacrifice to me, not giving me your best. And he says, if you do well, shall it not be lifted up? And if you don't do well, sin crouches at the door, and on you is its desire, but you may rule over it (not give into it)

    Then, Cain kills Abel, and he went from the presence of the Lord, and dwelled in Nod, east of Eden.
    But, it says that he had a wife, and she conceived.

    The problem with this though,
    Genesis speaks as if there was people already on Earth besides Cain / Abel, -- like humans from a different lineage, that existed besides Adam & Eve.

    Genesis 3:20 -- the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living
    If Eve was the mother of all living, where did Cain's wife come from?
    Genesis does not say at this point that Adam & Eve had a daughter,
    And even if they did have a daughter that wasn't mentioned,
    Cain having a child / marrying his sister, this would be incest, which is against God's Law.

    Then it describes Cain's son, Enoch, having a son named Irad.
    Who was Enoch's wife? Another human woman, that was not the child of Adam and Eve?
    Same with Irad?

    Finally, in Genesis 4:25, it mentions Adam & Eve's third child, Seth.
    But then it says later in Genesis 4:26, that Seth had a child named Enosh,
    But who was Seth's wife?

    It seems like there any many humans alive at this point, seperate from Adam and Eve, Cain, Abel and Seth.

    Cain had a wife, Enoch had a wife, Irad had a wife, Mehujael had a wife, Methushael had a wife, Lamech had two wives (named Adah and Zillah),

    Then it says Adah bore Jabal, and his brother's name was Jubal,
    And it says Zillah bore Tubal-cain, and that the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah,

    So, Lamech had four children with his 2 wives at this point.

    But the question is, where are all these other humans coming from?
    It seems a great contradiction. From this text, it seems there are others, besides the lineage of Adam & Eve,
    And the children of Adam & Eve and their decendents married these other humans who came from a different lineage besides Adam & Eve.

    If there is a Islamic perspective on this story, I'd be interested to hear it.

    Then later reading the bible Genesis 6:5-7
    5: And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    6: And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
    7: And the LORD said: 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.'

    I have heard the Islamic perspective of this story as well.

    Basically, it is saying that the wickedness of man was great, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil, continually.
    Then it says, God regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it greived Him at His heart (our existence greived his heart), and God says he will basically destroy man, beast, every living being, because in his heart he regrets that he made them.

    How can God regret doing something, though?
    I asked this question some time ago, and a Muslim gave me their perspective on it. How can God be perfect, if he regretted something he did?

    This is like saying that God doesn't know the future, that he wouldn't know how things would play out, and once he had saw the wickedness of the people, he regretted creating them. But, from the Islamic perspective, God should have known that this was happening, yes? Then it says that God destroyed everything, but then he remembered Noah, and everything in the ark, and he made the waters to recede Then eventually Noah sacrificed on the an altar he made for the Lord, and God smelled the sweet savour, and God said in his heart, "I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."

    Anyways, to be quite honest, I am hearing contradiction after contradiction when reading the Bible

    During one of these Muslim Christian debates, I remember hearing something. Christians just accept whatever a preacher says, without any type of proof or anything. In Islam, if a Muslim says something, he must have proof. In Christianity, we don't think about proof. So we hear statements from preachers like, the coming of Jesus was foretold in the Old Testament, and we hear all these statements, and we just hear them and don't question them. But honestly, even if the coming of Jesus was foretold, was it foretold that he was the son of God? Was the trinity ever mentioned in the Torah? These are subjects I have to explore. Because the Jewish standpoint is that there is no trinity. So, if Jewish text contradicts Christian text, then it makes me think that the Islamic perspective is the truth. So, honestly right now, I am finally leaning towards Islam. I will research some more topics, but I have to say, the Bible is full of contradictions, in such a way that it is supporting what Islam says in a way.

    I think, if I become a Muslim, I will write a book or something about all of this, lol.
    Anyways, thank you everyone that has responded to this topic. I have a lot of things to consider.
    I would encourage anyone that wants to, to give your opinion on anything I've written in this post.
    Cheers!

  14. #11
    *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by xChris View Post
    But the question is, where are all these other humans coming from?
    It seems a great contradiction. From this text, it seems there are others, besides the lineage of Adam & Eve,
    And the children of Adam & Eve and their decendents married these other humans who came from a different lineage besides Adam & Eve.
    https://abuaminaelias.com/did-adams-...commit-incest/

    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Adam and Eve are our first parents. At first , Eve bore 2 pairs of twins: 1st twins: male nd a female, 2nd twin: male and a female

    As the two males could not marry their twins, they were commanded to marry the females of each other. (I think this is getting confusing, i'll upload a video at the bottom).
    But they had a fight over woman.
    I don't know how cain had a wife..but Adam and Eve were the only source of lineage. Eve bore many children by the will of Almighty.


    Secondly, God cannot regret anything which He created. He knew everything even before creating man. That verse is contradictory. We cannot doubt His wisdom.

    And there is no trinity. Most of the Christians believe in it but it's not true. There is just One God. Jesus (peace be upon him) was just a prophet. And Angle Gabriel was a medium between Allah and Jesus. Jews are correct at this.

    https://youtu.be/dB6KZc9Y9ZI

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Peace be upon those who follow the Guidance,

    xChris,

    You will find that there are many errors & discrepancies in the Bible. The Word of God is free of such things. I don't think anyone has unveiled & exposed the corruption of the Bible better than Shaykh Ahmad Deedat (may Allaah have mercy on him). He has much written material & (famous) video debates. Shaykh Deedat wasn't one to mince his words - be warned! Some of his videos include:

    Answer To A Christians Question (clip)




    Is The Bible The True Word of God? Clip of a Debate with the Christian Pastor Stanley Sjoberg (Sweden, 1991).



    His writings including: 'What The Bible Says About Muhammad (peace be upon him)?' , 'Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction?' , 'Was Jesus Crucified?'

    Then his two part 'The Choice: Islam & Christianity' which unveils & exposes the many contradictions & inconsistencies in the Bible and does so in an engaging manner.The Choice alone should be sufficient, insha-Allaah.

    Written material:
    https://archive.org/details/Shk_Ahme...ge/n1/mode/2up

    Alternative Link 'The Choice'
    https://islamhouse.com/en/books/89151/

    Allaah Knows Best.

    - Caplets
    Last edited by Caplets; 05-04-2020 at 06:21 PM.
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    This will help Inshallah
    https://www.booksonhook.com/urun/830...d-christianity

    If u have any query, we would be glad to help uh

    Islam and Christianity
    Islam that abrogated celestial religions of Judaism and Christianity along with their validity is explained first. That Qur’an-ı Kar&...
    Last edited by medico; 05-02-2020 at 11:28 AM.

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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Salaams.

    Coming back to the OP being about Islamic principles, we must bear in mind that it has an origin.

    The origin is from God, Allah. And seeing as humans are learning creatures it takes time for us to grow, learn and better our ways.

    In ‘pure’ message, (going with the basics) we’d find the Psalms primarily focuses on what in Islam we call ‘tauheed’ which is our relationship with God.

    The Torah laid down the mechanics to human interaction, as in to do unto others what you would expect others to do unto you.

    But over time it became about revenge, as in ‘an eye for an eye’.

    Then came the message of the Gospels which as Jesus said was not to change an iota of the previous teachings but just to remind them (the rabbis) of their error.

    But Jesus did leave a something new. To turn the other cheek. In other words, to forgive. A much higher state of being.

    Each ‘Book’ added to the knowledge and ways of being formed on a solid belief due to the knowledge of God - Allah, a code of conduct and forgiveness for transgressions against us.

    With that in place, the time came for laws governing the community- the Quran. The Books and the messages completed. No need for further teachings and prophets.

    Unfortunately, after the Torah, all the other Books were rejected and as opposed to a continuation of the learning process, it became separated into three different ideologies.

    Just to add further, we Muslims follow Jesus and his teachings more closely than the Christians themselves. Jesus prayed by putting his head on the ground. Muslims do. Jesus ate kosher food, Muslims do. Jesus fasted during lent, Muslims during Ramadan. Jesus was circumcised (a covenant as followers of Abraham (not said right)), his mother, Mary, wore a veil, Muslim women still do (and the world wants to interfere) and I might have missed a few more.

    I believe, just those illustrations alone will confirm that the closest you can get to the principles as God would have it, will be found in Islam. Others have deviated. The Muslims have stayed to the path as laid down by Abraham and kept in practice the ways of all the prophets since.

    That being said, I also have to end by saying Islam is perfect. People aren’t.

    Hope that answers your question.


    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

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    peaceandlove's Avatar
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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    Well, Brother

    Too much long thread , i read most of its part, and just want to share my views on your two points

    Is being close with God something that exists within Islam?
    YES, The example i can say is SALAT, we had to pray 5 time a day to become close to ALLAH. SALAT remind us about ALLAH every time so we wont do any thing wrong and keep in our mind that ALLAH is watching us.

    You said "My main goal in life, well, is simple. I don't care about material things, or jobs, or women, or children, or respect, or the admiration of people. I don't care about wealth, or power. The things of this world, they have no interest to me."
    Well, the best example we should follow is Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam, well you said you wont care about women children and wealth, in once senses that seem good but that does not mean you should ignore them.
    I mean you should marry, have a wife and children , Islam is not just praying salat and giving charity to poors etc, Its what our Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam us, Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam has wives, have children and do work and earn money and do have friends and do have war with wrong people and do love. You will find every aspect of life

    If i am not wrong, you might want to become a spiritual guy? I mean you just want to leave the world , leave women and children , leave money and just want to goto the forest and just want to talk with ALLAH and pray to him? If i am right that not the right thing to do

    What is obidence of GOD? Its not what you think, its what ALLAH says to you to do and how Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam show you.

    For example, people think that helping poor is a greatest thing in term of money but what you feed to your wife and children is more rewarded then helping poor and wife and children is your duty.
    Even have a love to your wife is a great reward, so leaving wordly thing is not a good choice, you should keep with them but donot use them as bad use them what Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam teach use , that what the real thing to do.

    I am not sure i able to convey my message sorry for by bad english but hopefully in shah ALLAH you will get what i mean to say
    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.


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    Re: Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.

    In other word i would say, you want to be close with ALLAH.

    But questipon is how you can close to ALLAH? By leaving wordly things, keeping away from women and children etc , NO not at all

    Study how Prophet Muhammad Salalahualiwasalam has his life, he married, he had children , he love them, he respect them , so you should follow him

    We should not try to device our own way how we can close to ALLAH, Its ALLAH who will teach us how we can close to him
    Questions of Islamic Principles, from a Christian.



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