Muhammad (pbuh) a human?

Salams Sunni Student

I agree entirly with you on this issue of Muhammad saaws being a prophet sent to the whole of mankind, however i dont like it that you quote from the Kanzul-Iman of Rida Khan Brelvi as he is a deviant and has caused much of this sectarian debate we see nowadays. Alot of the "Brelviyah" are not aware of the true teahings of Rida Khan Brelvi, how he bought a doctrine that was unheard of, he was argumentative and vicious when he spoke, he accused a whole continent of Muslims to be deviants based on his own personal hatred, moreover he taught that saints are divine and share god hood with Allah. I have documented evidence to proove this and if you are from the U.K i will be more than happy to make prints and send you through the post. He caused alot of trouble and forced his bidah hasanahs upon people like they was faraaid! he even told his followers to follow his doctrine only, which suggests he laid claim either to some special type of waliyat or even prophet hood. More than that he stole and plagurized alot of his aqeedah from the Ahmedians. wasalams

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

Salams Sunni Student

I agree entirly with you on this issue of Muhammad saaws being a prophet sent to the whole of mankind, however i dont like it that you quote from the Kanzul-Iman of Rida Khan Brelvi as he is a deviant and has caused much of this sectarian debate we see nowadays. Alot of the "Brelviyah" are not aware of the true teahings of Rida Khan Brelvi, how he bought a doctrine that was unheard of, he was argumentative and vicious when he spoke, he accused a whole continent of Muslims to be deviants based on his own personal hatred, moreover he taught that saints are divine and share god hood with Allah. I have documented evidence to proove this and if you are from the U.K i will be more than happy to make prints and send you through the post. He caused alot of trouble and forced his bidah hasanahs upon people like they was faraaid! he even told his followers to follow his doctrine only, which suggests he laid claim either to some special type of waliyat or even prophet hood. More than that he stole and plagurized alot of his aqeedah from the Ahmedians. wasalams

Actually I will like to know what exactly do you agree, with prophet Muhammad(saaw) was sent for All-Mankind, I do agree with the statement but please Clarify & elaborate on what you mean?. Than state the Logic's behind your assertion. Bear in mind it has to make sense.

Salam.

Allah created the Prophet saaws to deliver His ultimate final message, people were not ready for the final Prophet in before nations, thats why Allah sent other prophets, they were all to help the Prophet deliver the last and final message. Keep in mind that the Qur'aan was written on the preserved tablet way before any messnger stepped on this earth here as Allah knew everything that was going to happen, nothing is new to the knowledge of Allah. Even though past nations did not know about Muhammad saaws like we do, we still have to stop right here and ask ourselves, "so why was Muhammad saaws mentioned to the Jews???????? Why was he even mentioned in previous scriptures?????? even the hadith gives us clear indication that on yawm ul qiyaamah, we wont be able to go to Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc to plea for our forgiveness, they will all point to Muhammad saaws, everybody from every nation, past present future will have to go to Muhammad saaws so that he may plea before Allah fo his ummah and even the rest of the ummahs before. We can not say the past nations did not know about Muhammad saaws otherwise we would be contradicting the Qur'aan and numerous ahaadith on this subject. The Kalimah has always been suffixed with Muhammad ur Rasoolullah but reserved for us. Every prophet begged to be under the banner of the kalimah , meaning to be part of this ummah but only Isa was accepted. wasalams

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

Salam.

Allah created the Prophet saaws to deliver His ultimate final message, people were not ready for the final Prophet in before nations, thats why Allah sent other prophets, they were all to help the Prophet deliver the last and final message. Keep in mind that the Qur'aan was written on the preserved tablet way before any messnger stepped on this earth here as Allah knew everything that was going to happen, nothing is new to the knowledge of Allah. Even though past nations did not know about Muhammad saaws like we do, we still have to stop right here and ask ourselves, "so why was Muhammad saaws mentioned to the Jews???????? Why was he even mentioned in previous scriptures?????? even the hadith gives us clear indication that on yawm ul qiyaamah, we wont be able to go to Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc to plea for our forgiveness, they will all point to Muhammad saaws, everybody from every nation, past present future will have to go to Muhammad saaws so that he may plea before Allah fo his ummah and even the rest of the ummahs before. We can not say the past nations did not know about Muhammad saaws otherwise we would be contradicting the Qur'aan and numerous ahaadith on this subject. The Kalimah has always been suffixed with Muhammad ur Rasoolullah but reserved for us. Every prophet begged to be under the banner of the kalimah , meaning to be part of this ummah but only Isa was accepted. wasalams

1. Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger to come, that is why he was mentioned in mainly the revelation to the Jews and the one revealed to Isa. It will be incubent for the Jews and everyone when he comes to accept him. Allah(swt) is giving the Glad tiding. A warning aswell.

2. Yes, the message was a continuation of the message until the final revelation, revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

3. Yes the Quran was written in the preserved tablet, but that does not mean prophet muhammad was sent to past, present and future. However it does not make it he came for the past, present & future.
How could he be sent to the people, when he was not sent to the people in their time. It's illogical.

4. I do not know about the Prophet Muhammad interceding for the whole mankind in the past, present and the future can you post the full hadith?

Although I hardly think it will make little difference.

Bismillah...May peace and blessings be upon Muhammad, and the Prophets and Messengers before him.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,
For the third or so time, insha'Allah one day I will get a reply from you, since I am under the impression that you are Muslim.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunni Student

I believe the Prophet Muhammad [Peace be upon him] is the Prophet of All Mankind, All Jinns and All Humans, Including All The Prophets, But only when He physicaly came to the world and proclaimed his messengership did people have to testify in him.

It is established also from the following authentic Hadith:

"I was a prophet while Adam was between the spirit and body" narrated by at-Haakim and others [See 'Silisilah as-Saheehah' of al-Albaanee (no. 1756) for detailed documentation.

That the Prophet was a Prophet before any other Prophet was even created, and before they proclaimed there messengership.

I honestly do not know if you are truly seeking knowledge, if you are truly a student of knowledge or not, since it seems to me, when a matter in a Tafsir or Hadeeth is speaking in favour of your opinion you seem to quote it, even if the same Tafsir book speaks on the matter and explains it. In this case you have quoted a hadeeth, but do you know the meaning of it? It would be nice, please, before I refute your understanding of the hadeeth, if you show us where you found it, so at least we can see if you left any bits of that article or source out.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunni Student

Hadith 523 of Sahih Muslim

Abu Hurayrah [May Allah be pleased with him] narrates that The Prophet Muhammad [Peace be upon him] said ‘I have been given superiority over other prophets in these six things’:

- I have been given Jawamiy al-Kalim [ability to speak eloquently and succinctly]

- I have been aided by awe, [Ru'ub]

- Spoils of war [ghanayim] are made lawful to me

- the entire earth has been made clean for me and a place of prayer

- I have been sent [as a messenger] to the entire creation

- Prophethood has been sealed with me [I am the last prophet]

Again, what does entire creation mean here? The entire including all those before him or the entire meaning not just his own tribe people as was the case with the previous Messengers and Prophets, and we see that the second meaning is backed up with authentic sources whilst the former meaning is nowhere to be seen or heard.

format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah

Muhammad bin Ka`b said concerning the Ayah:


﴿وَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَـكَ إِلاَّ كَآفَّةً لِّلنَّاسِ﴾


(And We have not sent you except to all mankind) meaning, to all the people. Qatadah said concerning this Ayah, "Allah, may He be exalted, sent Muhammad to both the Arabs and the non-Arabs, so the most honored of them with Allah is the one who is most obedient to Allah.'' In the Two Sahihs it was reported that Jabir, may Allah be pleased with him said, "The Messenger of Allah said:


«أُعْطِيتُ خَمْسًا لَمْ يُعْطَهُنَّ أَحَدٌ مِنَ الْأَنْبِيَاءِ قَبْلِي: نُصِرْتُ بِالرُّعْبِ مَسِيرَةَ شَهْرٍ، وَجُعِلَتْ لِيَ الْأَرْضُ مَسْجِدًا وَطَهُورًا، فَأَيُّمَا رَجُلٍ مِنْ أُمَّتِي أَدْرَكَتْهُ الصَّلَاةُ فَلْيُصَلِّ، وَأُحِلَّتْ لِيَ الْغَنَائِمُ وَلَمْ تَحِلَّ لِأَحَدٍ قَبْلِي، وَأُعْطِيتُ الشَّفَاعَةَ، وَكَانَ النَّبِيُّ يُبْعَثُ إِلَى قَوْمِهِ خَاصَّةً وَبُعِثْتُ إِلَى النَّاسِ عَامَّة»


(I have been given five things which were not given to any of the Prophets before me. I have been aided by fear (the distance of ) a month's journey. The entire earth has been made a Masjid and a means of purification for me, so that when the time for prayer comes, any man of my Ummah should pray. The spoils of war have been made permissible for me, whereas they were not permitted for any before me. I have been given the power of intercession; and the Prophets before me were sent to their own people, but I have been sent to all of mankind.)'' It was also recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said:


«بُعِثْتُ إِلَى الْأَسْوَدِ وَالْأَحْمَر»


(I have been sent to the black and the red.) Mujahid said, "This means to the Jinn and to mankind.'' Others said that it meant the Arabs and the non-Arabs. Both meanings are correct.

Extract, Tafsir of Surah 34, heading The Prophet was sent to all of Mankind Allah says to His servant and Messenger Muhammad, I encourage everyone to read it.

That is my proof right there for why I hold my position, from Tafsir to clearly show All Mankind is refering to All people, which was different to the Prophets and Messengers before since they only went to their people.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunni Student

So what is there to deny, he was a Prophet before All Prophets, He was sent to the entire creation, having that in mind why should we objecty that he is sent to All Mankind? Past, Present and Future?

Say you, 'O mankind'; I am Messenger to you all from Allah [Kanzul-Iman 7:158]

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah [Yusuf Ali 7:158]

Say [O Muhammad]: "O mankind! Verily, I am an apostle of God to all of you, [M Asad 7:158]

Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all [Picktall 7:158]

Tafsir Ibn Kathir states:

Allah says to His Prophet and Messenger Muhammad, (Say), O Muhammad, (O mankind!), this is directed to mankind red and black, and the Arabs and non-Arabs alike, (I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah,) This Ayah mentions the Prophet's honor and greatness, for he is the Final Prophet who was sent to all mankind ﴿and the Jinn’s

Further on when explaining this Ayah Ibn Kathir says the following,

There are many other Ayat and more Hadiths than can be counted on this subject. It is also well-known in our religion that the Messenger of Allah was sent to all mankind ﴿and the Jinn’s

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا كَافَّةً لِّلنَّاسِ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ (34:28)

And O beloved! We sent not you but with Messenger ship encircling entire mankind, as a bearer of glad tidings and a Warner, but most of the people do not know. [Kanzul-Iman 34:28]

NOW [as for thee, O Muhammad,] We have not sent thee otherwise than to mankind at large, to be a herald of glad tidings and a Warner; but most people do not understand [this] [M Asad 34:28]

We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not. [Yusuf Ali 34:28]

And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a Warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not. [Picktall 34:28]

Tafsir Ibn Kathir

(And We have not sent you except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all mankind,) i.e., to all of creation among those who are accountable for their deeds. This is like the Ayah: (Say: "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah.'') (7:158) (Blessed be He Who sent down the Criterion to His servant that he may be a Warner to the all creatures.) (25:1)

Again, this shows us that the Prophet was sent to All Mankind, what does this mean? It means that unlike the other Messengers and Prophets who were sent only to their tribes, as shown to us in authentic sources, Muhammad had from his special gifts, the fact that he was sent to All People, All Mankind, the white and black the Chinese and Jamaican. This is what we find in authentic sources, we have yet to see any source which states Muhammad was sent to every person from Adam till the end of time, and that that is what was meant 'All Mankind'

format_quote Originally Posted by Sunni Student

You have your opinion and we have ours, and seeing that there is nothing against this Position and it is supported by Quran and Sunnah, at least accept it is a valid opinion of difference!

Who is 'we'? also, there is no proof for your opinion, you claimed 'All Mankind' proves it, no it doesn't All Mankind means the White and the Black, Arab and Non Arab, that is the difference between Muhammad and those before him. No authentic source proves that Muhammad was sent to people before his physical birth.


I sincerly ask all Muslims to not try to squeeze their beliefs into the Quran and Sunnah but derive their beliefs from it. InshaAllah.

So Brother Sunni Student, Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah, I hope to see the article and so forth from which you brought the hadeeth from, and after that I will share my view on it.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu Brother Ibraheem,

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

Even though past nations did not know about Muhammad saaws like we do, we still have to stop right here and ask ourselves, "so why was Muhammad saaws mentioned to the Jews???????? Why was he even mentioned in previous scriptures??????

So that they could recognise him, Eesa told his people glad tidings of Ahmad, we are told that the unlettered prophet was mentioned in the Gospel, the jews I think new the discription of Muhammad, why? Because so that when he come they could follow him since if a messenger comes you follow the messenger. That's all.

Please provide us evidence that supports that the Prophet, peace be upon him, was sent to people at the time of Aadam, or Ibrahim.

Your brother, who loves for the sake of Allah, Abu Ikhlas.

format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon

1. Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger to come, that is why he was mentioned in mainly the revelation to the Jews and the one revealed to Isa. It will be incubent for the Jews and everyone when he comes to accept him. Allah(swt) is giving the Glad tiding. A warning aswell.

2. Yes, the message was a continuation of the message until the final revelation, revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

3. Yes the Quran was written in the preserved tablet, but that does not mean prophet muhammad was sent to past, present and future. However it does not make it he came for the past, present & future.
How could he be sent to the people, when he was not sent to the people in their time. It's illogical.

4. I do not know about the Prophet Muhammad interceding for the whole mankind in the past, present and the future can you post the full hadith?

Although I hardly think it will make little difference.

Salams

1. agreed

2. agreed

3. He was sent to the last of mankind, but his mission was for the entire, the message of the prophets was the same. The previous prophets were a build up to Muhammad.secondly thank you kindly for misrepersenting my argument. i said "everybody from every nation, past present future will have to go to Muhammad saaws so that he may plea before Allah fo his ummah"

4. this hadith can be found in Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 507:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Allah will gather the believers on the Day of Resurrection in the same way (as they are gathered in this life), and they will say, 'Let us ask someone to intercede for us with our Lord that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Then they will go to Adam and say, 'O Adam! Don't you see the people (people's condition)? Allah created you with His Own Hands and ordered His angels to prostrate before you, and taught you the names of all the things. Please intercede for us with our Lord so that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Adam will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking' and mention to them the mistakes he had committed, and add, "But you d better go to Noah as he was the first Apostle sent by Allah to the people of the Earth.' They will go to Noah who will reply, 'I am not fit for this undertaking,' and mention the mistake which he made, and add, 'But you'd better go to Abraham, Khalil Ar-Rahman.'

They will go to Abraham who will reply, 'I am not fit for this undertaking,' and mention to them the mistakes he made, and add, 'But you'd better go to Moses, a slave whom Allah gave the Torah and to whom He spoke directly' They will go to Moses who will reply, 'I am not fit for this undertaking,' and mention to them the mistakes he made, and add, 'You'd better go to Jesus, Allah's slave and His Apostle and His Word (Be: And it was) and a soul created by Him.' They will go to Jesus who will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, but you'd better go to Muhammad whose sins of the past and the future had been forgiven (by Allah).' So they will come to me and I will ask the permission of my Lord, and I will be permitted (to present myself) before Him. When I see my Lord, I will fall down in (prostration) before Him and He will leave me (in prostration) as long as He wishes, and then it will be said to me, 'O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then raise my head and praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit whom I will admit into Paradise.

I will come back again, and when I see my Lord (again), I will fall down in prostration before Him, and He will leave me (in prostration) as long as He wishes, and then He will say, 'O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit to whom I will admit into Paradise, I will return again, and when I see my Lord, I will fall down (in prostration) and He will leave me (in prostration) as long as He wishes, and then He will say, 'O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit to whom I will admit into Paradise. I will come back and say, 'O my Lord! None remains in Hell (Fire) but those whom Qur'an has imprisoned therein and for whom eternity in Hell (Fire) has become inevitable.' "

The Prophet added, "There will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a barley grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: ' La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of a wheat grain. Then there will come out of Hell (Fire) everyone who says: 'La ilaha illal-lah,' and has in his heart good equal to the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant)."

The post by Fisabilillah quoting from Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahaabs text also confirms this:

1. Major Intercession: It is that which will fall upon the shoulders of the Prophet Muhammad (saas ) after all the other Prophets and Messengers have refused to accept it on the Day of Resurrection: The people will ask all of the previous Prophets and Messengers to intercede with Allah (swt ) on their behalf but they will refuse, saying: "Myself! Myself!" Then they will come to the Messenger of Allah (saas ), and he will accept, and go to his Rabb and prostrate before Him for as long as He wills, then he will be given permission to raise his head and intercede on behalf of the believing people, and none other than he (swt ) shall be given this right and privilege.

wasalams

OK, you mentioned here the hadith about our prophet interceding in the heare-after. I even heard that.

All you can say in the heareafter Prophet Muhammad(saaw) will intercede (for a certain kind of people).
However it does not support that prophet Muhammad "SENT" for the people in the past, present & Future.

He was sent to mankind starting from when he was sent. From the point Allah (swt) he was commanded to give the message.

So please refrain from using he was sent to the people past, present future as it's illogical.
Because in simple he was not sent in the past, he was not sent in the present (accept for his present) and he was not sent in the future.

Brother he was sent as a mercy to the entire of creation. In that sense i am saying he was sent. He was sent for the entire creation. I am not saying that the Qur'aan was revealed for the people before. My question to you is that will every Muslim accept him as the messenger of Allah on yawn ul qiyaamah or will they scream "no only Moses, only Jesus" etc? The kalimah of la ilaaha illa Allah Muhammad ur Rasoolullah has always stood. I challenge you to sift through the Bible and find There is no God , or One God and Moses, Jesus is his messenger. Not to say they was not His messengers. There is only one Messenger that has had his name written in the same sentence as Allah's for testification of faith. I think we ought to respect that fact and not bicker over the issue. If you want to nitpick, find a monkey!

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

Brother he was sent as a mercy to the entire of creation. In that sense i am saying he was sent. He was sent for the entire creation. I am not saying that the Qur'aan was revealed for the people before. My question to you is that will every Muslim accept him as the messenger of Allah on yawn ul qiyaamah or will they scream "no only Moses, only Jesus" etc? The kalimah of la ilaaha illa Allah Muhammad ur Rasoolullah has always stood. I challenge you to sift through the Bible and find There is no God , or One God and Moses, Jesus is his messenger. Not to say they was not His messengers. There is only one Messenger that has had his name written in the same sentence as Allah's for testification of faith. I think we ought to respect that fact and not bicker over the issue. If you want to nitpick, find a monkey!

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah,

brother believing in a propher and messenger does not mean that he was sent for you. Just because people of Old will believe in Muhammad as well as their Messenger, it does not mean Muhammad was sent to them. Rather it is an obligation, what Allah says we believe, if people of old were told to believe in an upcoming prophet, because he was from Allah then they would believe not because he was going to be sent to them but also because if they reject him they reject Allah, same as those who reject one angel.

Also, the Bible has been changed, it is no challenge to ask for us to look into the bible for kalimahs.

Brother he was sent as a mercy to the entire of creation.

You must have tripped and fell right into the middle of the paragraph, totally missing my point.

Secondly the Bible hasnt been changed! In actual fact the Bible is merely a substitute for the real revelation from Allah which is still perfectly preserved but hidden.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

Brother he was sent as a mercy to the entire of creation. In that sense i am saying he was sent. He was sent for the entire creation. I am not saying that the Qur'aan was revealed for the people before. My question to you is that will every Muslim accept him as the messenger of Allah on yawn ul qiyaamah or will they scream "no only Moses, only Jesus" etc? The kalimah of la ilaaha illa Allah Muhammad ur Rasoolullah has always stood. I challenge you to sift through the Bible and find There is no God , or One God and Moses, Jesus is his messenger. Not to say they was not His messengers. There is only one Messenger that has had his name written in the same sentence as Allah's for testification of faith. I think we ought to respect that fact and not bicker over the issue. If you want to nitpick, find a monkey!

Brother, I am not here to argue with you. I am here to understand where one derive the opinion one has stated, and if it does stand up to it. For me 1) it does not exactly make sense, 2) does not seemed to be supported. or 3) One has not been sufficient in explaining one's assertion.

It is a bad analogy to use the bible. The Bible is not mentioned in the Quran, nor it has anything to do with the point of the topic.

For those who have the srength to understand,sift through my posts. Wasalams

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

You must have tripped and fell right into the middle of the paragraph, totally missing my point.

Secondly the Bible hasnt been changed! In actual fact the Bible is merely a substitute for the real revelation from Allah which is still perfectly preserved but hidden.

Assalamu Aleykum Brother,

I read your paragraph and I highlighted the part I wanted to ask about, I understand Muhammad is a mercy for the creation, this is something something which is hidden, every Muslim knows that.

With regards to the Bible, you claim it has not change, but it is a substitute for the real revelation, again, the Bible is known to have changed, paragraphs taken in and out and not in manuscripts and so forth.

Secondly, you claim the real revelation of Allah is still perfect, so where did you get this information from? Please akhi tell me the sources, because you said 'but hidden' so indicating that it is in the unseen so it must be from a source that you got this from.

I just ask that for our opinions on things we should have some sort of reason and source to back it up. Please show me those sources.

I have showed you the sources before but you questioned their authencicity even though it was Imaam suyuti that presented the hadith. I will however quote these hadith again. As for the Bible changing, maybe in translation, a hell of a lot, i undertsand theres much dispute about the codexes and also books, verses thrown out, and thrown in. However, it is true that the same Bible we see today was the same Bible in Muhammads saaws time. I never say the Bible was corrupted as from the very beginning we are dealing with a thrown together, man made scripture which was thrown together in a desperate attempt to revive what the Jews had lost therefore i find it useless arguing the irrelevant, blah blah, the Bible has been corrupted (when it was corrupt in the first place) type argument, i always to try shift peoples attention to what was put inside the ark of the covenant. here are the ahadith:

The Mehdi will remove the Ark of the Covenant from Lake Tiberias. (Iqd al-Durar fi Akbar al-Imam al-Muntadhar, by Shaikh Jamaluddin Yusuf al-Damishqi, p. 51-a)

The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will show the way to a hidden thing. He will bring the Ark to light from a place called Antioch. (Suyuti, al-Hawi li'l Fatawa, II, 82)

The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will go to one of the mountains in Sham. From there he will unearth the (true) books of the Torah and bring forth evidence against the Jews. (Suyuti, al-Hawi li'l Fatawa, II, 81)

And also we have to question the Biblical ayahs in connection with this:

Deuteronomy 31: 24-29

[24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, [25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your G-d, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

We have to ask here what book? the Bible? Did Moses command the Levites to put the Bible in the ark with these verse already present within that text? or are we looking at a substitute for that book placed in the ark!

I will leave for the people to draw their own conclusions.

Yeah this stuff happens, last summer I went to istanbull, there they even made dua to a sahabi.

which one?!

format_quote Originally Posted by nishom

They believe he (pbuh) is not human but a special being

The prophet (saww) is human just like us but he is infallible. (was)

format_quote Originally Posted by nishom

and that he is alive in his (pbuh) grave and that he can hear and see every one of us, and that he listens to and accept our duas when we say 'ya muhammad'-ASTAGFIRULLAH ASTAGFIRULLAH ASTAGFIRULLAH.

What kind of shirk is this? The prophet (pbuh) is not God.

The prophet (saww) is not god, but he cann grant our duas when we ask him, because, due to his good deeds, Allah has given him the ability to do so.


The Quran says,
In Sura Al-Baqarah 2:154
“And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive”




Even in Sura Ale-Imran 3:169 conveys the similar message as follows,
“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive ……......”

hence one can conclude that the prophet is not dead.

hope that clears the misconception.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Ibraheem

I have showed you the sources before but you questioned their authencicity even though it was Imaam suyuti that presented the hadith. I will however quote these hadith again. As for the Bible changing, maybe in translation, a hell of a lot, i undertsand theres much dispute about the codexes and also books, verses thrown out, and thrown in. However, it is true that the same Bible we see today was the same Bible in Muhammads saaws time. I never say the Bible was corrupted as from the very beginning we are dealing with a thrown together, man made scripture which was thrown together in a desperate attempt to revive what the Jews had lost therefore i find it useless arguing the irrelevant, blah blah, the Bible has been corrupted (when it was corrupt in the first place) type argument, i always to try shift peoples attention to what was put inside the ark of the covenant. here are the ahadith:

The Mehdi will remove the Ark of the Covenant from Lake Tiberias. (Iqd al-Durar fi Akbar al-Imam al-Muntadhar, by Shaikh Jamaluddin Yusuf al-Damishqi, p. 51-a)

The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will show the way to a hidden thing. He will bring the Ark to light from a place called Antioch. (Suyuti, al-Hawi li'l Fatawa, II, 82)

The reason he will be known as the Mahdi is that he will go to one of the mountains in Sham. From there he will unearth the (true) books of the Torah and bring forth evidence against the Jews. (Suyuti, al-Hawi li'l Fatawa, II, 81)

And also we have to question the Biblical ayahs in connection with this:

Deuteronomy 31: 24-29

[24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, [25] That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your G-d, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

We have to ask here what book? the Bible? Did Moses command the Levites to put the Bible in the ark with these verse already present within that text? or are we looking at a substitute for that book placed in the ark!

I will leave for the people to draw their own conclusions.

Thank you, I think maybe a different thread might be needed for this but thanks for the sources, also I was refering to the sources for holding the opinions which are at the heart of this thread.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muhaammad Mahdi

The prophet (saww) is human just like us but he is infallible. (was)

format_quote Originally Posted by nishom

and that he is alive in his (pbuh) grave and that he can hear and see every one of us, and that he listens to and accept our duas when we say 'ya muhammad'-ASTAGFIRULLAH ASTAGFIRULLAH ASTAGFIRULLAH.

What kind of shirk is this? The prophet (pbuh) is not God.

The prophet (saww) is not god, but he cann grant our duas when we ask him, because, due to his good deeds, Allah has given him the ability to do so.


The Quran says,
In Sura Al-Baqarah 2:154
“And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive”




Even in Sura Ale-Imran 3:169 conveys the similar message as follows,
“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive ……......”

hence one can conclude that the prophet is not dead.

hope that clears the misconception.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah Brother Muhaammad Mahdi,
Welcome to the forum and hope you find it to be a nice place InshaAllah,

To proceed, what type of life are 'they' in, when it says 'they are not dead' what does it mean?