salaam walaykum,
as you can see from my avatar i am a revert and this ayat was my main obstacle on my way to islam. if you read it carefully, in most of translations it mentions beating of a wife. even though i do understand that it means lightly and not to hurt, i still feel it goes in contradiction with prophet's SAW teachings where women are supposed to be highly respected and beating avoided and never resorted to.
can anyone with a deeper knowledge of islam clarify it for me please as i still can't understand it.
Islam is very definitive about a women's position in regards to a man. The Quran commands men to beat their wives if their wives persist in disobedience to her husband's requests or orders. This is a brutal way to subject women to men's commands, and as we see in Saudi, it opened the door for women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women, and further even commanding men to beat women, Islam makes women 2nd class people. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who are to treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line. There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam……………
Islam is very definitive about a women's position in regards to a man. The Quran commands men to beat their wives if their wives persist in disobedience to her husband's requests or orders. This is a brutal way to subject women to men's commands, and as we see in Saudi, it opened the door for women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women, and further even commanding men to beat women, Islam makes women 2nd class people. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who are to treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line. There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam……………
I thinl u are mis- informed about islaam
the verse of quran u are talking about talks about woman practising infidelity
The Quran commands men to beat their wives if their wives persist in disobedience to her husband's requests or orders.
You must have missed the part that said beating is only allowed to occur after she has been told off for her wrong behaviour, and after her husband has abandoned her bed, and only if she persists? And that the hit isn't allowed to leave any marks or bruises and isn't allowed to be on the face? And that it only applies when women are clearly in the wrong?
This is a brutal way to subject women to men's commands,
It is brutal to force men to talk to their wives who are guilty of manifest indecency and then to leave their beds and then to hit them but only lightly as a last resort only? Don't you see how that is a protection for women?
By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women,
Excuse me? Just because men are in control of the household and responsible for taking care of their wives, doesn't mean that Islam degraded women in anyway! All it means is extra work and responsibility for the men!
and further even commanding men to beat women,
Commanding? Get the context correct before you make such claims please.
Islam makes women 2nd class people.
False.
women are people who are to treated kindly,
And treating someone kindly is a crime?
but severely disciplined when they get out of line.
As are men! Except that the women isn't the one who disciplines her husband, since she does not have the power to do so, she takes it to a higher authority to do the disciplining for her!
There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam……
Obviously, when you twist the facts around the way you have, there is no justification. But when you actually look at what Islam teaches you will realise the wisdom and beauty behind it, and the elevation of the status of women.
As Muslim women, we know fully well how we are treated, considering that this is how we live our lives, and we happy enough without people coming into our territory and accusing us of being oppressed, second class citizens, I don't think you realise how offensive your post was. Let's leave the Islam-bashing for the media please.
Islam is very definitive about a women's position in regards to a man. The Quran commands men to beat their wives if their wives persist in disobedience to her husband's requests or orders. This is a brutal way to subject women to men's commands, and as we see in Saudi, it opened the door for women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women, and further even commanding men to beat women, Islam makes women 2nd class people. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who are to treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line. There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam……………
Lol, I wanna laugh at you but i wont. Ill just say, as long as this thread has gone...nothing really sat in your mind...:X
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Lol, I wanna laugh at you but i wont. Ill just say, as long as this thread has gone...nothing really sat in your mind...:X
i think that the importance of thsi conversation is beating
we should compare beatings in islamic country and non islamic one,then we will know who is the best beater ,muslim or non muslim .what do you think .
u will be the winner before the start
RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said: "Never beat God's handmaidens." "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"
Question: Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)
Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.
Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.
Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.
Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.
Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.
After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.
Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.
Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”
Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu,wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.) Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”
Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.
The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.
Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language: Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)
Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."
Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79
Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."
And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."
As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.
Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.
The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.
However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)
Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79
In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.
Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.
Book 004, Number 2127:
”…He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?...”
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Book 004, Number 2127:
”…He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?...”
Answer to the mistranslation:
The term used in the hadith is:
Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that:
The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to push" (dafa'a).
The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as sheikh Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and conferring blessing as the following reports show:
1. Ubay ibn Ka`b said:
"There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - saw how I was affected, he slapped me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allâh in fear." (Sahih Muslim)
2. Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:
"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!' (Bukhari and Muslim)
More proof that the correct translation is ‘He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore’
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]
Wife-beating can’t be considered "in the Cause of Allaah" - the reference in the Hadeeth is a reference to Jihaad on the battlefield. "When the prohibitions of Allaah were violated" is a reference to someone committing a crime, and their being tried and then punished by flogging. This is not a reference to the way a husband should treat his wife. So here we clearly see in a sahih (authentic) hadith that Aisha clearly told that the prophet ‘never hit a servent or a women’.
So this is also a clear proof that the usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
This has been explained in this thread already in depth. And Allaah knows best.
i think clarification is in order here. Islam does NOT allowed wife beating, kids beating, or any beating of that sort. The word beating itself signifies striking violently without holding back and doing so repeatedly.
So does islam allow beating? No.
why did islam mention this then?
As we already know, domestic violence is in every society. And men abuse and hit their wives at the slightest things sometimes (yes, in the west too) and they do get carried away 9/10 times. so?
So islam limited the "beating" as a last result when the wife does not obey and all other means have been exhausted, and it also has put a LIMIT on as to how much force you can use to strike her and where at. By doing so, it has actually protected women from men from hitting and from the amount of force they can use or where they hit.
Blessing in disguise that the ignorants like to pick on and not opening their eyes to the real domestic abuse going on in each of their own society.
This thread is getting very boring and tiring with repetitive statements/comments/ remarks etc . I shall reply with what I hope would be the very last of this thread.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Wife beating? (OP)
I'm sure it wasn't mustafajadeed's intention to offend you.
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks