× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... Last
Results 1 to 20 of 76

Thread: Please Explain

  1. #1
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Please Explain

    Report bad ads?

    Salaam Alaikum,

    I have spent great efforts debating with non Muslims on various aspects of religion and with great success thanks to Allah's glorious teaching. But I would like for someone to explain the following Hadith and to also tell me if it is authentic.


    Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
    A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
    He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
    Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
    Mas Salaam
    Ibrahim Salim Omari

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    - Qatada -'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ...travelling to the hereafter..
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    11,306
    Threads
    791
    Reputation
    61941
    Rep Power
    128
    Likes (Given)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Re: Please Explain




    There's a clear explanation of this somewhere by brother Ansar, insha Allaah i'll try to find it. It's somewhere on the forum, but it was posted a long time ago.


    Here's the links:

    http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/20274-true-insulting-prophet.html
    http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/15217-assassinations.html
    Last edited by - Qatada -; 08-16-2007 at 04:52 PM. Reason: added links

  4. #3
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by - Qatada - View Post



    There's a clear explanation of this somewhere by brother Ansar, insha Allaah i'll try to find it. It's somewhere on the forum, but it was posted a long time ago.
    Salaam,

    I would be greatly appreciative if you could source the answer for me.

    Mas Salaam

  5. #4
    - Qatada -'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ...travelling to the hereafter..
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    11,306
    Threads
    791
    Reputation
    61941
    Rep Power
    128
    Likes (Given)
    18
    Likes (Received)
    507

    Re: Please Explain




    I've private messaged brother Ansar and insha Allaah if he comes online today, he will respond to it clearly. I can't find the refutation yet, but i am still searching.

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    thank you.

  8. #6
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    In fact, that whole book 38 Titled: "Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud)" has many stories that seem extremely questionable. But I'll hold my opinion until I hear an explanation.

    Please if someone can explain it would be very beneficial for many people.I would quote the whole book here but I don't know if it's too big to post.

    Mas Salaam
    Ibrahim Salim Omari
    Last edited by iomari; 08-02-2007 at 07:38 AM.

  9. #7
    doorster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,513
    Threads
    88
    Reputation
    21041
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by iomari View Post
    In fact, that whole book 38 Titled: "Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud)" has many stories that seem extremely questionable. But I'll hold my opinion until I hear an explanation.

    Please if someone can explain it would be very beneficial for many people. If you look at the first hadith of that book:



    Then you will that this contradicts many of the other "sayings" in the same book. I would quote the whole book here book I don't know if it's too big to post.

    Mas Salaam
    Ibrahim Salim Omari
    It might just persuade me to talk to you and gladly explain but I fear that it is trap and amount of explanation will suffice as you will nitpick and or pretend not to understand. But if some one is willing to moderate in real time as we talk in real time, I bet I can send you on your way in less then 30 minutes one way or the other,

    And I get to choose the moderators namely Bros, Madani and Qtada and Sr. Al mawahada and almuminas

    wasalam alaikum to Muslims

  10. #8
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    It might just persuade me to talk to you and gladly explain but I fear that it is trap and amount of explanation will suffice as you will nitpick and or pretend not to understand. But if some one is willing to moderate in real time as we talk in real time, I bet I can send you on your way in less then 30 minutes one way or the other,
    Salaam,

    My brother, you misunderstand who I am and what I do. I am not one looking for ways to condemn Islam. I am a devout Muslim who spends must time "enlightening" Muslims and non Muslims alike. Please read my book to know my mindset.



    ftp://faith:knowledge@71.18.106.118/faith/faith.pdf

    It's not complete yet but Insha Allah very soon it will be published.

    BTW, I have retracted the earlier quote from the first hadith of book 38. I missed the part about it only applies to Muslims.

    Having said this, I don't think it's too much to ask for a simple explanation. Of course I am a man of reason and if the explanation is unreasonable, giving the understanding I have of the nature of the Prophet (PBUH), then I will surely reject these as weak and unauthentic. But if the explanation makes since then i'll know how to defend it.

    For you to know how serious this is, here is the link that first brought my attention to these sayings:

    www faithfreedom org
    /Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

    The above article was written by someone who left Islam because of these sayings.

    I found the whole article very frustrating so I have been seeking a response. So please explain to me. But I would love to discuss with you online if you want.

    Mas Salaam
    Ibrahim Salim Omari
    Last edited by iomari; 08-02-2007 at 07:49 AM.

  11. #9
    Muslim Woman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    11,961
    Threads
    387
    Reputation
    80641
    Rep Power
    129
    Likes (Given)
    8746
    Likes (Received)
    3573

    Re: Please Explain



    bro , u may ask here.

    Ask About Islam

    you may submit your questions here at 08:00 GMT on Monday, August 6th, 2007.

    http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1121601592961&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FPage%2FAskAboutIslamCounselingE
    Please Explain

    Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172

    recitation:http://quran.jalisi.com

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    planet earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    213
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    716
    Rep Power
    74
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by iomari View Post
    Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
    Salaamu alaikum warahmatullah Brother....

    I don't understand what the last sentence from that hadith means... does it mean - there is no punishment that can suffice for the death of that woman?

    since that woman-slave is also pregnant when she was killed, please correct me if I misunderstood it.

  14. #11
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Salaam,

    my understanding of the last line of the hadith is to say that the act committed was righteous.

    This is also the understanding of all the opponents of Islam. As if the Prophet (PBUH) condoned it.

    Mas Salaam

  15. #12
    believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    planet earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    213
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    716
    Rep Power
    74
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by iomari View Post
    Salaam,

    my understanding of the last line of the hadith is to say that the act committed was righteous.

    This is also the understanding of all the opponents of Islam. As if the Prophet (PBUH) condoned it.

    Mas Salaam
    Salaam Brother...

    I understand that the slave-woman whom this man possess in his right hand - was also the mother of his two sons... as well as the third which was still in her womb at the time he killed her.

    I thought - or I may be wrong in understanding the last part... that; since he killed a woman with the unborn child... and since he is the father of that child and the master of that slave-woman... there is no conceivable punishment that can apply to this case... due to the following reasons:

    1. who's going to take care of the 2 sons if they kill the father/master of that slave-woman... it wouldn't be right justice for the 2 sons.

    2. That his life is not enough to pay the two lives he destroyed - (i.e., the mother and the unborn child).

    I can't imagine the Prophet (RAW) would condone such an act just for the reason that that Man claimed of the offense and violation of the slave-woman.

    I believe that the Prophet needed to balance his leadership that time since the spread of Islam was more important and that to create deterrent scenarios for the detractors/enemies of Islam must be set firm in order for the enemies to be kept at bay.

    The Man being a Muslim himself did not act according to Islamic ways in treating Mushriks... or if that woman was virtually a non-Muslim...

    Therefore, this case reminds me of the case of the 2 woman fighting over the right over a child who went to King Solaiman (AS)... When King Solaiman (Solomon) AS... told the two woman that they can have both the child and that the child be cut in half. - same thing. some cases cannot be resolved over by human laws.

    However, such acts or commissions would not even have to happen in the first place if and only if people would follow or live their lives according to Islam.

    Please, correct me if I misunderstood the story. I am only understanding it and basing it according to the nature of Gods' Prophets' wisdom and ways over worldly matters.


    May Allah bless us with enlightenment and wisdom and Divine Guidance... Ameen.

  16. #13
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Salaam,

    I see some sense in your interpretation but at the same time i believe that 99 out of 100 people would not read all that meaning into the last line of the hadith. If you want to argue that no one would have been left to fend for the children then how about cases where a woman guilty of adultry and pregnant was stoned to death after she delivered. Who would take care of the baby? Simple, she was not the only woman alive so any other willing woman could have taken over just like any other able man could have taken over the responsibility of the blind man. Ami I making sense. But don't get me wrong, I still believe that the hadith must be weak or is missing some crucial info.

    But the real problem arises when you read some of the other "sayings" from that same book 38. For instance:

    Book 38, Number 4349:

    Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.
    Now does not paying recompense mean that the man was not guilty because she was not a Muslim? I don't think so. Our beloved Prophet (PBUH) honored all life, not just Muslims. Besides, we all know the story of the woman who used to throw garbage in front of the Prophet's (PBUH) house and how he treated her. But for the benefit of our readers who don't know, this woman who hated the Prophet (PBUH) used to throw her trash at his gate. She did this everyday and He ignored it. One day he found no trash and quickly went to see if the woman was ok because he thought that maybe she was sick. This is the Prophet that we have all grown to love. I think throwing trash is worst than saying bad things. Don't you?

    Mas Salaam
    Ibrahim Salim Omari

  17. #14
    believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    planet earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    213
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    716
    Rep Power
    74
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Salaam Brother!

    I totally agree... thank you for this elightening encounter.

    The Hadith of that woman throwing trash on the Prophets path way was also mentioned in the Qur'an in one of the last short Surrahs.

    since the Prophet (RAW) - make it all prophets... donot carry the mission to uplift themselves or exult themselves above any other human... therefore, it is but natural for them to be ignoring these petty attitudes.

    One thing I know why these women abuse the prophet is because he was the messenger who recited about the Priveledge of a Muslim Man to marry 4 Women... as long as he can treat them all equally.

    I believe, that - the command of Allah (SWT) applies in these cases.

    That the Prophets mission is only to convey the message and promise of Paradise and the Warning of Hell... it is not his job to Babysit the ummah... whatever their reaction is to be left to Allah (SWT) alone. Therefore, their offenses will be left to be judged by Allah (SWT) alone.

    again... please enlighten me brother if I am short of undertanding the wisdom behind it.

    Khazak alakhair

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    NoName55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Reputation
    14644
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by iomari View Post
    Salaam,

    ..........how about cases where a woman guilty of adultry and pregnant was stoned to death after she delivered. Who would take care of the baby?..........
    Provide reference!!!

  20. #16
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Salaam,

    One thing I know why these women abuse the prophet is because he was the messenger who recited about the Priveledge of a Muslim Man to marry 4 Women... as long as he can treat them all equally.
    My brother, I don't want to get off topic but these women couldn't be acting off the 4 women rule. That rule was there to limit the number of wives because prior to this ruling there was no limit to how many wives. And this "no limit" way of life was not only among the Pagans but the Christians and Jews as well. And the proper explanation of the rule is not to treat them "equally" but to treat them with justice. There is a big difference. it's virtually impossible to treat multiple wives "equally". But one should always be just.

    Now back to the topic, I have a book that I'm almost finished. You can download it if you look in the "discovery" section of this forum. But in light of this hadith, I will not finish this book until I can include this hadith and either prove it's false or explain it's meaning. If you search the web for "Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348" you will find many non Muslims using this to condemn Islam. Especially that Shayton Inspired site "answering Islam". I refuse to let this happen so I must find the answer. In case you can't find my book link its:


    ftp://faith:knowledge@71.18.106.118/faith/faith.pdf

    Mas Salaam

  21. #17
    NoName55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Reputation
    14644
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

  22. #18
    iomari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    11
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    21
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by NoName55 View Post
    Provide reference!!!
    Here is the reference you asked. It's from Sahih Book 17.

    Book 017, Number 4207:

    Imran b. Husain reported that a woman from Juhaina came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she delivers bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about her and her clothes were tied around her and then he commanded and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her, whereas she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacrificed her life for Allah, the Majestic?

  23. #19
    believer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    planet earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    213
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    716
    Rep Power
    74
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by iomari View Post
    Salaam,



    My brother, I don't want to get off topic but these women couldn't be acting off the 4 women rule. That rule was there to limit the number of wives because prior to this ruling there was no limit to how many wives. And this "no limit" way of life was not only among the Pagans but the Christians and Jews as well. And the proper explanation of the rule is not to treat them "equally" but to treat them with justice. There is a big difference. it's virtually impossible to treat multiple wives "equally". But one should always be just.

    Now back to the topic, I have a book that I'm almost finished. You can download it if you look in the "discovery" section of this forum. But in light of this hadith, I will not finish this book until I can include this hadith and either prove it's false or explain it's meaning. If you search the web for "Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348" you will find many non Muslims using this to condemn Islam. Especially that Shayton Inspired site "answering Islam". I refuse to let this happen so I must find the answer. In case you can't find my book link its:


    ftp://faith:knowledge@71.18.106.118/faith/faith.pdf

    Mas Salaam

    Salaam Brother... - Interesting!

    This story is about a "SELF-CONFESSED" woman believer who voluntarily submitted herself for punishment because of her Cardinal Sin.

    Everybody knows that adultery is a crime punishable by - in most cases if caught in the act - death in the hands of a jealous husband... nothing can be more dangerous than the fury of a jealous husband. - Imagine that - what more if were talking about the fury of God; Allah SWT Himself?

    The woman probably came to the realization that she would rather be repentig while in this life tha to be forever condemned in the hereafters' Hellfire.

    What the woman did was to impose on herself a divine purification act.

    Now going back to present situation... in the West, many women commit adultery... if they are not Muslim - then, there is no problem... unless they are caught by their husbands. In a Muslim world where there are real Muslim women... who are God-fearing... it is unlikely for them to commit big sins like Shirk nor Adultery nor Suicide... this is close to non-existent in a real Islamic community. However, should there be a case... there is no compulsion for the woman to confess her sins in public... (they normally don't)

    she can confess directly to God, since Muslims have direct access to God anyway-no need for any intercessors whatsoever.

    Can you imagine a society who comdemns such sins of the flesh who would tolerate an adulterous woman confessing already in the open? What would be the impact? - it can be a precedence. If allowed - then it will encourage many to tolerate such act... what would make that society any different from the West?

    The issue in this case is.... public admission of your sins. Technically, If an offender would not confess in public and that no one will ever find out the violation or crime... then they are not going to be punished. (in this life anyway). This is applicable in all societies.

    But, in Islam... this life is not as important as the life hereafter. So, dying to attain purification or salvation is much better than living under a big lie. For whatever action each of us do, it is Allah who is going to be the judge of it... not Men.

    As Matt Monroe's song would put it "To be willing to march into Hell - for a Heavenly Cause..." - All death punishment is concieved to be an UnGodly act by Non-Muslims... but - who's going to clean up the mess?

    In other words... if a person commits a grave sin with a punishment of death... He or she has the choice to choose her escape roads. There's a road for Redemption... Two roads... The big road is through direct-confession to God. and the Narrow road - Confesion to the offended person out of fear of God.

    And then, there's the other Big, wide road... Denial. A denial that can pass even the latest lie detector apparatus. Ever wonder why Westerners are more resltless and nervous with stress and fear? - These are merely symptoms of denials.

    If you are connected to God and are pure in heart, mind and spirit... then there is nothing to fear or to grieve. We are insulting God if we worry or Fear because it means we don't rely or trust Him 100%. God made a promise to his servants that we should not fear anything if we believe, submit and do righteous deeds.

    Fear nothing if we feel we have done our obligations to God and to Man... Fear not even death.

    Brother... this is only my own personal impression on the hadith you have prsented. I don't know if other people look at it the way I do... but I hope I am made an instrument to shed some light.

    May Allah bless you more with your book and increase your iman and wisdom to pursue your dawa.... Ameen!

  24. Report bad ads?
  25. #20
    NoName55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Reputation
    14644
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Please Explain

    Quote Originally Posted by believer View Post


    Brother... this is only my own personal impression on the hadith you have prsented. I don't know if other people look at it the way I do... but I hope I am made an instrument to shed some light.

    May Allah bless you more with your book and increase your iman and wisdom to pursue your dawa.... Ameen!


    You are doing beautifully fine good man!



    ------------------------------------------------------
    any one see difference between these 2 quotes below?
    Originally Posted by iomari
    Salaam,

    ..........how about cases where a woman guilty of adultry and pregnant was stoned to death after she delivered. Who would take care of the baby?..........
    Book 017, Number 4207:

    Imran b. Husain reported that a woman from Juhaina came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she delivers bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about her and her clothes were tied around her and then he commanded and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her, whereas she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacrificed her life for Allah, the Majestic?
    Last edited by NoName55; 08-07-2007 at 09:11 AM.


  26. Hide
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... Last
Hey there! Please Explain Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Please Explain
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Can Some one explain this?
    By User2024 in forum General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-19-2011, 06:11 PM
  2. Can someone please explain to me....
    By BintAbee in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 07:15 PM
  3. pls explain
    By anonymous in forum Advice & Support
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-08-2008, 11:29 AM
  4. Can somebody explain this?
    By Fishman in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-27-2006, 02:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create