mansio,
I removed the extra allegations you posted because I feel that it is only fair if we go through them one at a time, and it seems you agree.
format_quote Originally Posted by
mansio
About as-samaa: your definition is exactly mine.
Good to know.
Sometimes I feel like someone who is asked to prove that men are glued to the earth by terrestrial gravity, or that the earth rotates around the sun. Do you think I walk around with those proofs in my pockets. There are plenty of things that are accepted by a majority of people without need of proofs. It is general culture that allows you to distinguish between what is scientific and what is mythical. We live in the 21st century and not in the Middle-Ages, although some people are still mentally in the Middle-Ages.
I'm not sure how this relates to the discussion.
If you need information on Hinduism you have plenty of it on the internet or in libraries. I read about the kalpas and the seven heavenly levels in a book about Hinduism of course, I did not invent it. I have a number of books on Hinduism in my library, in French.
Then you should have no problem providing references to back up what you said about seven heavens.
About 86:6-7 : Are we discussing about what is written in the Quran or what scholars have to say about the Quran ?
The scholars explanations serve to clarify. Let's examine one of these explanations for example:
To begin with, these verses say nothing whatsoever about the creation of sperm or the creation of anything else. Consequently, they do not inform us of where the creation of sperm takes place. They merely say that the substances under discussion come out form the places being described. The word being used is “yakhruj” meaning “to exit, leave, come out, emerge”. It in no way implies anything related to creation or origination.
Secondly, the phrase “mâ’ dâfiq” (emitted fluid) is not restricted in meaning to sperm but is used in Arabic for both the sperm and the egg. Ibn Kathîr, in his commentary on this verse, writes: “It emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah’s permission, the child comes forth as a product of both.”
Thirdly, the words translated as “backbone” (sulb) and “ribs” (tarâ’ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: “It refers to the ‘sulb’ of the man and the ‘tarâ’ib’ of the woman, which is the area of her chest.” He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet’s companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur’anic commentary.
Moreover, the word “sulb” should not necessarily be translated as “backbone”. This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “Prohibited to you (for marriage) are…wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb).” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23] There can be no problem with sperm coming out from the area of a man's loins.
Likewise, when we look at the word being translated as “ribs” (tarâ’ib, the plural of tarîbah) we find that it is used linguistically for the general are of the chest and the abdomen. In al-Qâmûs, the famous classical dictionary of al-Fayrûzabâdî it is defined as a number of things: “the bones of the chest or what comes after the two collarbones or what comes between the collarbones and the chest or the four ribs to the right of the chest or the four ribs to the left of the chest or the hands, eyes and feet or the collarbones.” Some Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Successors had also provided many possible meanings, like the lower ribs and al-Dahhâk’s statement that it is the area between the breasts and feet and the eyes (a mere indication of centrality).
This word clearly has a very broad and diverse definition. It is so ambiguous a word that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) could not give it a precise definition. Scholars of Qur’ânic commentary have consistently admitted to there being at least three different possible meanings for this word as it is used in the verse. This is an admission that they do not know for certain what the tarâ’ib are, except that they generally agree it refers to an area of the woman’s body. It can apply to any region nearing the ribcage. Therefore, the area of the ovaries, the fallopian tubes, or the uterus can easily fit into the general area that is being indicated by these verses.
What we are dealing with here is a gross error in translation and not a scientific error at all.
Here we have an explanation of the ARABIC TERMS used in the Qur'an. If you think you can refute that explanation, go ahead.
Your scholars have of course omitted the fact that the idea of the loins as the seat of reproductive faculties is also in the Bible (Gen 35:11 1Kings 8:19 Acts 2:30) and in Greek science (see Hippocrates medical theories).
We are discussing alleged errors in the Qur'an, so why are you speaking about the Bible and greek science?!
I'll give you another chance. Can you refute the explanations we have provided for the verse or not?
Regards
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