What is this "personal God" idea that I hear about and is it different in the Quran?

[AntiKarateKid]

Another topic inspired by one of our local Christian posters. I have heard on more than one occasion, this statement of " a personal relationship" with God.

I as a Muslim believe that I have a personal relationship with God and know what he is like through he 99 names and more so as far as I can see, the only difference between Christians and Muslims in this regard is that Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

How is that at all necessary for God to be in contact with his own creation?

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

[------]

Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

No they don't. They assert 'God sacrificed his son for our sins'

[Keltoi]

Another topic inspired by one of our local Christian posters. I have heard on more than one occasion, this statement of " a personal relationship" with God.

I as a Muslim believe that I have a personal relationship with God and know what he is like through he 99 names and more so as far as I can see, the only difference between Christians and Muslims in this regard is that Christians assert that "God suffered for us".

How is that at all necessary for God to be in contact with his own creation?

Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

When Christians speak of a personal relationship with God they are referring to many things, but primarily it is about a "new birth".

2 Cor. 5:17-18a "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. . ."

This personal relationship is about recieving our new nature with God, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)


This new relationship is all about communication with God. It is also about sincerity of the heart. Without sincerity of the heart that communication is fruitless. So a personal relationship with God is crucial, not just an option or an emotion. For a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and live a life of sincerity and good fruit, that personal relationship is always there.

Hope that helps.

[MustafaMc]

No they don't. They assert 'God sacrificed his son for our sins'

...but they also say that Jesus (as) wasn't really the "son" of God, but rather fully God in human flesh. Hence, God died on the cross for their sins. At least that was how I saw it when I was a Christian.

[AntiKarateKid]

When Christians speak of a personal relationship with God they are referring to many things, but primarily it is about a "new birth".

2 Cor. 5:17-18a "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. . ."

This personal relationship is about recieving our new nature with God, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7)


This new relationship is all about communication with God. It is also about sincerity of the heart. Without sincerity of the heart that communication is fruitless. So a personal relationship with God is crucial, not just an option or an emotion. For a Christian, if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and live a life of sincerity and good fruit, that personal relationship is always there.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info! I am curious about this idea of "renewing" the Holy ghost who is a part of the trinity right? that means he is part of God so why are we renewing God? Do our sins drive God out of us?

[Keltoi]

Thanks for the info! I am curious about this idea of "renewing" the Holy ghost who is a part of the trinity right? that means he is part of God so why are we renewing God? Do our sins drive God out of us?

Our sin does not drive God out of us, but original sin, which I understand is not a Muslim belief, harmed our standing before God. It developed our "sin nature", so to speak, and means human beings do not "deserve" Heaven or eternal life. Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

[MustafaMc]

Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

[AntiKarateKid]

Our sin does not drive God out of us, but original sin, which I understand is not a Muslim belief, harmed our standing before God. It developed our "sin nature", so to speak, and means human beings do not "deserve" Heaven or eternal life. Human beings were reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. When this task was accomplished the Holy Spirit was returned to us, renewed in us.

I'm not sure I understand. "Original sin" developed our sinning nature correct? Adam and eve int he beginning did not have original sin yet they still sinned. How does that work?

[Keltoi]

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

The Holy Spirit was certainly with him. I'm not sure the term indwell is appropriate since Adam is told to have a deep communion with God. It is even mentioned that God "walked" with Adam on many occassions. I would say the Holy Spirit was with Adam, as I would believe it to be a better description.

[Keltoi]

I'm not sure I understand. "Original sin" developed our sinning nature correct? Adam and eve int he beginning did not have original sin yet they still sinned. How does that work?

Adam and Eve were responsible for the stain of original sin because God gave them everything they could have wanted, yet they still disobeyed Him. That was the first sin and the cause of the taint of sin in mankind.

[mkh4JC]

So was the Holy Spirit dwelling within Adam at the same time that God walked and talked with him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8-12) before the fall?

I think the Holy Spirit did indeed dwell within Adam and Eve before the fall. When they disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit, God withdrew his presence away from them and their eyes were opened, and they understood the difference between good and evil, and then too they became capable of sinning. Not only that, Jesus is called in the Bible the Last Adam, and he had the Holy Spirit. So obviously God was living inside of them.

[MustafaMc]

It is even mentioned that God "walked" with Adam on many occassions. I would say the Holy Spirit was with Adam, as I would believe it to be a better description.

Which person of the Trinity walked with Adam? I assume that it was the Father because the Son had not been born yet (with prior existence as "the Word" of God) and I never heard of the Holy Spirit walking. If it was the Father, then the Father and the Holy Spirit must have been at the same place at the same time in order for the Holy Spirit to be with Adam while the Father walked with him. Did Adam have any consciousness of the Son of God while he was in the Garden of Eden, or did he too have an incomplete understanding of God that was only fully manifested with the birth, life, and death of Jesus (as)?

[MustafaMc]

I think the Holy Spirit did indeed dwell within Adam and Eve before the fall. When they disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit, God withdrew his presence away from them and their eyes were opened, and they understood the difference between good and evil, and then too they became capable of sinning. Not only that, Jesus is called in the Bible the Last Adam, and he had the Holy Spirit. So obviously God was living inside of them.

If God was living inside of them up to the point of when they ate the forbidden fruit, why did Adam and Eve feel the need to go and hide from God when they heard Him walking in the Garden. He would have already known of their sin of disobedience and wouldn't ask if they had eaten of the fruit (Genesis 3:11).

Furthermore what about Genesis 3:22-23? It seems as though the God of the OT was afraid that Adam was going to be His rival (astighfir'Allah) by eating the Tree of Life as being the reason that Adam was cast out of the Garden, not as we suppose as punishment for his disobedience.

[barney]

Personal God means the beief that God is interested in you as an individual and is watching, loving, dealing out justice and communicating, through "answered prayers" Dreams and "showing,(blessing/gifting)" the person with a certain verse or scripture.

It's the beleif that when you get sacked or get a raise, that it is God stepping in and "testing" you or "punishment" or "rewarding" you for your own perceived triumphs and "sins"

[Keltoi]

Which person of the Trinity walked with Adam? I assume that it was the Father because the Son had not been born yet (with prior existence as "the Word" of God) and I never heard of the Holy Spirit walking. If it was the Father, then the Father and the Holy Spirit must have been at the same place at the same time in order for the Holy Spirit to be with Adam while the Father walked with him. Did Adam have any consciousness of the Son of God while he was in the Garden of Eden, or did he too have an incomplete understanding of God that was only fully manifested with the birth, life, and death of Jesus (as)?

Of course the Persons of the Trinity can be in the same place at the same time. It is described on the day of Pentecost.

As for whether Adam knew the Son of God, I assume you are referring to fleshly body of Jesus Christ. No, he did not meet Jesus Christ as His body had not been formed on earth. However, as Christ comes from the Father and is of the same substance, it would stand to reason that by knowing God Adam also knew the Son. Adam knew God. It is a good question and not one easily answered by a literal verse which describes such an understanding.

[Keltoi]

If God was living inside of them up to the point of when they ate the forbidden fruit, why did Adam and Eve feel the need to go and hide from God when they heard Him walking in the Garden. He would have already known of their sin of disobedience and wouldn't ask if they had eaten of the fruit (Genesis 3:11).

A better question would be, didn't God already know they would disobey Him? My answer would be yes.

As for why Adam and Eve were hiding...it is because they were now in sin and knew shame. It might not have been logical for them to assume they could hide from God, but it is a very human reaction to shame.

Furthermore what about Genesis 3:22-23? It seems as though the God of the OT was afraid that Adam was going to be His rival (astighfir'Allah) by eating the Tree of Life as being the reason that Adam was cast out of the Garden, not as we suppose as punishment for his disobedience.

No, God was speaking about their knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden because of their disobedience.

It is also referring to life and death. Because Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they were stricken with sin and the knowledge of good and evil. If Adam would have eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. God knew it was best to die in sin than live forever with separation from Him.

[MustafaMc]

A better question would be, didn't God already know they would disobey Him? My answer would be yes.

I would agree with that.

As for why Adam and Eve were hiding...it is because they were now in sin and knew shame. It might not have been logical for them to assume they could hide from God, but it is a very human reaction to shame.

Yes, it is natural to "hide one's face" from the guilt of shame.

No, God was speaking about their knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden because of their disobedience.

...but in Genesis 3:5 Satan said "you will be like God, knowing good from evil" and then this is corraborated by Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

It is also referring to life and death. Because Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they were stricken with sin and the knowledge of good and evil. If Adam would have eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. God knew it was best to die in sin than live forever with separation from Him.

That is logical, but I don't see it supported by the OT.

[MustafaMc]

As for whether Adam knew the Son of God, I assume you are referring to fleshly body of Jesus Christ. No, he did not meet Jesus Christ as His body had not been formed on earth. However, as Christ comes from the Father and is of the same substance, it would stand to reason that by knowing God Adam also knew the Son. Adam knew God.

...but the God that Adam had a personal relationship with in the Garden of Eden was not the same as the one that you have a relationship with. Adam had absolutely no concept of God dying on the cross in order to cleanse him of his sins; whereas, you do. Would not your experience of God be qualitatively different and quantitatively greater than that of Adam? I speak from the sense of enormous gratitude and love that I had felt as a Christian that God would sacrifice Himself on the cross for lowly me.

[Fazl Ahmad]

A personal relationship with God is what every Muslim should strive for, through prayer and pleasing Him with righteous actions. Salat is the best means to achieve nearness to Allah, because when you are praying you are presenting yourself to Allah and beseeching Him to answer you.

Christians often speak of God "residing" in them or God being inside them, which sometime Muslims confuse and take literally. However, what they really mean is that God is not inside their body, but is working through them, i.e. He is guiding people toward Himself through a person. Christians and Muslims have very different terminology which is part of the reason for misunderstanding betweent he two religions.

[Keltoi]

I would agree with that.Yes, it is natural to "hide one's face" from the guilt of shame....but in Genesis 3:5 Satan said "you will be like God, knowing good from evil" and then this is corraborated by Genesis 3:22 [COLOR=Red]Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Well, it is still referring to the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were sheltered from the reality of sin in the Garden. When they fell into temptation that innocence was taken from them. It wasn't a matter of Adam or Eve becoming "gods", it was about the loss of that perfect fellowship with God.

All Adam and Eve had to do to exist forever in perfect harmony with God was to avoid the knowledge of good and evil, meaning the Tree of Knowledge. One simple request: "Do not eat the fruit." That proved too much for them, and their curiosity brought death, pain, suffering, sorrow, etc into the world.