if you become an apostate and keep it to yourself I can't imagine anyone would care, but from observation those who apostate have an agenda to fulfill-- Islam is not just a religion but it is also a complete political system (under shari3a) state a public declaration might be considered treason.. be that as it may many apostates during the prophet time were actually pardoned .. so it is really a judicial proceeding by a scholar in jurisprudence than anything..
and Allah swt knows best
peace
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
The terms "infidel" and "apostate" are NOT synonymous.
Main Entry: in·fi·del
Pronunciation: \ˈin-fə-dəl, -fə-ˌdel\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English infidele, from Middle French, from Late Latin infidelis unbelieving, from Latin, unfaithful, from in- + fidelis faithful — more at fidelity
Date: 15th century
1: one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
2 a: an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion b: one who acknowledges no religious belief
3: a disbeliever in something specified or understood
Main Entry: apos·tate
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpäs-ˌtāt, -tət\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: one who commits apostasy
Main Entry: apos·ta·sy
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpäs-tə-sē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural apos·ta·sies
Etymology: Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand — more at stand
Date: 14th century
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
I have been told by some Muslims that a kafir was a pagan.
As someone that does not believe that Mohammad was a prophet I have also been considered a kafir and no I have not always been treated with good manners. LOL!
as someone who doesn't believe in the man/God/Hovering ghost with a mother bowel movements and unanswered prayers, I too have been considered a heretic and treated badly by evangelists and had my religion and continue to have my religion maligned through every portal, as it seems the only way for them to loan their mythology credence is through mockery of unfaltering monotheism.. LOL
Now perhaps you can stick to the topic?
all the best
Last edited by جوري; 03-31-2009 at 02:27 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Indeed, I did read that. Last I checked Sikhs were not Muslims. Where did you finding him asking about apostacy of any variety?
I believe it is what we call a similitude --how does someone who is a 'former' Sikh apostate 'likened' to someone who is a former Muslim؟.. that is what I understood from the post!.. it is all easy to ask the OP his true intent on his post rather than fill my life with platitudes? =) all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Dear sir, my apologies first, it's been really tough for me as well. So, if it bothers you, I apologize.
As I said, it's been really tough on me as well. I am going to PM you if I am capable of doing so...
Thanks
For some reason I cannot PM you back so I will post it on here.
You said in your message:
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
Here are some of the examples:
Page 82, Line 1
ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਜਿਉ ਵੇਸੁਆ ਪੁਤੁ ਨਿਨਾਉ ॥
विचि हउमै करम कमावदे जिउ वेसुआ पुतु निनाउ ॥
vicẖ ha▫umai karam kamāvḏe ji▫o vesu▫ā puṯ ninā▫o.
Those who do their deeds in ego are like the prostitute's son, who has no name.
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 239, Line 4
ਸਾਕਤ ਬੇਸੁਆ ਪੂਤ ਨਿਨਾਮ ॥੩॥
साकत बेसुआ पूत निनाम ॥३॥
Sākaṯ besu▫ā pūṯ ninām. ||3||
The faithless cynic is nameless, like the prostitute's son. ||3||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 1415, Line 12
ਬੇਸੁਆ ਕੇਰੇ ਪੂਤ ਜਿਉ ਪਿਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
बेसुआ केरे पूत जिउ पिता नामु तिसु जाइ ॥
Besu▫ā kere pūṯ ji▫o piṯā nām ṯis jā▫e.
They are like the son of a prostitute, who does not know the name of his father.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
First of all there is no such thing as a infidel in Sikhism, so your knowledge on it is pretty misconceptionary I think. Second of all those verses are not talking about infidels in any religion.
The first verse is saying, those who do deeds and acts in a selfish egotistical manner is false to himself. There's nothing about religion in their whatsoever. It's like someone who forces a begger to beg for money and is proud of it.
The second verse is not calling the faithless cynic a prostitutes son, but saying that he will be shamed like him.
The last verse is similar, it is talking about the realtionship between a person and his parents. If one has left his parents in greed, or despair then he has no worth to them.
You do know Sikhism says that there is more than one path to God and that there is no such thing as a infidel right?
Sorry for the confusion, although yes I am a former Sikh, I meant to discus how an infidel aka Kafir not apostate because the quotes about the infidel is what turned me off about Sikhism.
Just as an FYI though, even when I considered myself, I had started cutting my hair at 19. So some people would call me apostate as soon as I cut my hair. But now I guess I voluntarily became apostate to Sikhism once I got turned off by Sikhism.
To the Sikh guy responding to this, the word Saakat is sometimes translated to Infidel and some other times, it's translated to faithless cynic...
Well the term "infidel" always referred more to the Christian faith, NOT Islam. The correct word to use is apostate. In terms of Christianity, yes it's not synonymous to apostate...but both basically mean ur rejecting a particular faith, if you put it in the context of religion...
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
if you become an apostate and keep it to yourself I can't imagine anyone would care, but from observation those who apostate have an agenda to fulfill-- Islam is not just a religion but it is also a complete political system (under shari3a) state a public declaration might be considered treason.. be that as it may many apostates during the prophet time were actually pardoned .. so it is really a judicial proceeding by a scholar in jurisprudence than anything..
and Allah swt knows best
peace
Greetings respected Skye,
Interesting observation . . . I've formed the view that to call Islam a religion doesn't fully describe what it is - do you have a word or words that describes it better than the word religion, I have thought about the question a few times and failed to come up with the right word or words?
Interesting observation . . . I've formed the view that to call Islam a religion doesn't fully describe what it is - do you have a word or words that describes it better than the word religion, I have thought about the question a few times and failed to come up with the right word or words?
Greetings,
well you are right Prophet Mohamed like Moses, didn't simply establish a religion but a complete political system. Islam governs every aspect of ones life from politics, economics, social structure, Ideology, trade, inheritance and beliefs.
Most of which has ceased with the dissolution of the Muslim empire ..
that is why the term 'ad'deen mo3amala' is very true.. Islam isn't merely a religion but a complete way of life.. It doesn't and shouldn't stop after you have fulfilled your basic five pillars..
and Allah swt knows best!
peace
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks