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    Question Concept of Messiah in Islam (OP)


    Hi everyone, not sure whether this thread belongs here or in Clarifications, so feel free to move it.

    My questions are as follows:

    • What is the concept of Messiahship in Islam? What are the necessary criteria for Messiahship?
    • Did Jesus fulfill these criteria, or did someone else fulfill them, or is the Messiah still to come? (Or any other possibilities?)
    • To what extent do these criteria correspond to the multiple prophecies in the Tanakh (aka the 'Old Testament')?


    Inevitably, I guess, a comparison with the concept in Judaism, Christianity and other Abrahamic faiths is bound to come up at some stage - but for the time being can we focus on the questions above.

    Salam,
    Shoes

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

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    I would interrupt the Dajjal issue a little to comment on a post(which is related to our discussion) of our friend Grace/seeker in another thread...and later resume ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace/seeker
    if salaam is a peace that comes from God more than it comes from circumstances, it does leave me wondering why it should be inferred from this passage any substantiation that John and Jesus had to die non-violent deaths? Could they not still be experiencing God's peace even as others where treating them in unpeaceful ways?
    peace could be Salutation

    [010:010] (This will be) their cry therein: "Glory to Thee, O God!" And "Peace" will be their greeting therein! and the close of their cry will be: "Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!"

    [019:062] They will not there hear any vain discourse, but only salutations of Peace: And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and evening.

    [037:109] "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"

    peace could be internal feeling(peace of mind,satisfaction in spite of hardships)

    Peace as security....

    [011:048] The word came: "O Noah! Come down (from the Ark) with peace from Us, and blessing on thee and on some of the peoples from those with thee.



    In the case of Jesus and even John,they are the only Prophets mentioned in the Quran with this affirmation of peace on birth,and death..

    Why the peace in their case has to be Security? the Quran answers you:


    [019:033] "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

    1- It doesn't require a great deal of wisdom to know that the day Jesus was born, he doesn't know yet what internal peace means....
    what internal peace would a new born get?!


    2- The peace the new born had came from circumstances, he was in a very hard situation and even in danger to lose life...

    his mother is alone having the pains of delivery ,and her first experience yet to give birth,without any help from anyone....

    and after his birth she was suspected of being adulterer and her child as a son of fornication......

    so Jesus was exposed to the risk of death while delivery and even after birth ,as sons of fornication were exposed to fatal hurt from the community ....
    God make him speak and saved him...


    John the baptist was born from old woman and was exposed again to the risk of such delivery of the old women...

    They both were exposed to be killed but were saved,and died in peace.

    and the day of judgment they will be saved from Hell and enjoy the peace of Paradise

    [013:024] "Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!"

    [016:032] (Namely) those whose lives the angels take in a state of purity, saying (to them), "Peace be on you; enter ye the Garden, because of (the good) which ye did (in the world)."


    Thanx Grace seeker....

    and I hope all reader react with my posts and we get benefited from each other...

    peace for all.....
    Last edited by Imam; 07-10-2009 at 08:27 PM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

    http://al-azhar7.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    As I read what you wrote about peace, it actaully seems to confirm that basically there is no reason to jump to any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being necessarily non-violent, yet I know you've reached a different conclusion. I wonder what we are seeing differently?

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    the verses speak of Jesus saying: peace be upon me, the day I'm born, the day I die, and the day I'm resurrected.

    so I think the argument goes, that the peace he speaks of, is the same peace throughout the three stages: birth, death and resurrection since there is nothing to indicate otherwise. so it's the peace of salutation and praise from God, as well as internal peace, also security and perseverance from threats.
    Last edited by alcurad; 07-12-2009 at 09:16 AM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam

    ” إن الأمة التي تحسن صناعة الموت توهب لها الحياة”

    正直・・・微妙

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    As I read what you wrote about peace, it

    actaully seems to confirm that basically there is no reason to jump to

    any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being necessarily

    non-violent, yet I know you've reached a different conclusion. I

    wonder what we are seeing differently?
    I'm a little amazed how my post let you think there is no reason to

    jump to any conclusions about either John's or Jesus's death being

    necessarily non-violent!

    I argued that the peace in the verse HAS TO BE security from violence

    If the peace in birth Has to be security from violence and hurt (proved

    from the Quran itself)

    so peace in Death Has to be security from violence and hurth (again

    proved from the Quran ,They neither killed him nor crucified him &

    Behold I did restrain the children of Israel from violence to you)

    and peace in day of judgment from the fate of those been taken as gods

    while the fate of those been taken as gods the pain of Hell,

    21:98 Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship
    besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!
    , some will defend themselves and be saved from condemnation to Hell

    some of those been taken as false gods will be saved from such serious situation,

    19:82 They worship beside GOD other gods that (they think) may be of help to them. Instead, they shall reject their worship, and become adversaries against them.

    [25:17] On the day when He summons them, together with the gods they had set up beside GOD, He will say, "Have you misled these servants of Mine, or did they go astray on their own?" They will say: "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee.


    5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

    In sum
    Jesus would be saved from three critical situations , exposed him to hurt in both birth,death,day of Judgment ...

    The meaning of internal peace is skipped once the word (the day I was born) mentioned .....

    A new born wouldn't realized the meaning of satisfaction and internal peace yet...... but would have ,no doubt, external peace from danger of delivery with a woman been alone and first time delivery and a community suspect her of adultery and him of being a bastar*.........

    peace
    Last edited by Imam; 07-12-2009 at 11:26 AM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Imam View Post
    A new born wouldn't realized the meaning of satisfaction and internal peace yet...... but would have ,no doubt, external peace from danger of delivery with a woman been alone and first time delivery and a community suspect her of adultery and him of being a bastar*.........

    peace
    But you lost me right there. While newborn wouldn't realize it, a newborn could indeed experience it. In fact it would seem most logical that for a newborn, he would not know the difference between the violence of the outside world and a peaceful outside world, for both are foreign to him. What he knows however is the peace of being in his mother's arms. That peace is something that he can experience no matter the circumstances. Jesus' world was anything but peaceful at the time of his birth, but he had peace in the security not of lack of violence but the presence of his mother. At the time of his death, would also have security not from lack of violence but the presence of his Father. Both of these are true irregardless of the circumstances of his life. That is why I saw these passages differently than you.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    That peace is something that he can experience no matter the circumstances. Jesus' world was anything but peaceful at the time of his birth, but he had peace in the security not of lack of violence but the presence of his mother.
    Now you made it clear for me ,How would you understand the verse

    your understanding is both incomplete and influenced by the argument ,our friend Greenville presented before:

    you suggest God inspired that verse to tell us that Jesus was between his mother's arms and in a good mood the day he was born !

    but didn't you realize that without the act of protection (baby Jesus talk),the people would have stoned Mary for fornication,and hence no way for Jesus to enjoy her arms and motherly affection?

    also the baby as been exposed to lose his life (and his mother too) while delivery in the wilderness alone with none to give a hand.....

    the peace while birth in the verse means protection ,and any other suggestions would be shallow....


    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    At the time of his death, would also have security not from lack of violence but the presence of his Father. .
    back again to the argument of Greenville?

    that Jesus been crucified but had security inside?


    well, Jesus never been crucified or had any kind of violent death

    4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him.

    [005:110] And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from violence to you.

    Even in the NT,it seems that Jesus never had security inside the day he died as his father has forsaken him:

    Matthew 27:45-46, 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying,"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

    anyway the Bible is not our issue...it is the Quran and it is crystal clear why you understood the verse this way, as you want it the Greenville way,and we have shown where he erred before.....

    peace
    Last edited by Imam; 07-12-2009 at 08:04 PM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

    http://al-azhar7.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Now I see the need to define peace-

    Peace to me and I believe most Christians would be knowing that they are in the hands of the Father- no matter what happens in this life- violence, they have the knowledge that the Father will protect them -> they will be in heaven with Him.

    The ultimate peace- being with GOD for eternity.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower View Post

    Peace to me and I believe most Christians would be knowing that they are in the hands of the Father- no matter what happens in this life- violence, they have the knowledge that the Father will protect them -> they will be in heaven with Him.
    .
    And we are here talking about what the peace in its earthly meaning,or what peace Jesus had ,before his spirit got in heaven...


    Either Allah inspired The verse to affirm the in spite of the physical harm around Jesus in birth,death, judgment day ...Allah saved and will save him

    Or Allah inspired the verse to affirm , in spite of the physical harm Jesus had ,he had internal peace and satisfaction...


    The second is the one , our friend Grace-seeker and Greenville ,as well, suggested !!

    the basic weakness of such understanding is that we are reading the Quran,and not the Bible

    Jesus neither had any harm either in birth or during death,or will in Day of judgment,in order for us to claim though the violence he had security inside !........

    What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day it was crucified
    ?

    It means though crucifixion he had internal peace .

    What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day wasn't crucified
    ?

    It means though danger he was protected.

    and that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran ....

    The peace in heaven that you mention is well known to all believers Muslims and others....

    we hope to enjoy such eternal peace beside our creator in paradise...

    and you are waiting too,but I'm afraid you may be waiting mere an illusion,and a state of peace you will never enjoy.....
    Last edited by Imam; 07-13-2009 at 06:59 PM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

    http://al-azhar7.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Imam View Post
    And we are here talking about what the peace in its earthly meaning,or what peace Jesus had ,before his spirit got in heaven...


    Either Allah inspired The verse to affirm the in spite of the physical harm around Jesus in birth,death, judgment day ...Allah saved and will save him

    Or Allah inspired the verse to affirm , in spite of the physical harm Jesus had ,he had internal peace and satisfaction...


    The second is the one , our friend Grace-seeker and Greenville ,as well, suggested !!

    the basic weakness of such understanding is that we are reading the Quran,and not the Bible
    Yes, we are talking about the word "peace" as used in the Qur'an, but the meaning of the word salaam isn't limited to just the external form of peace you mention. The internal sense of peace even in unpeaceful times is very much a part of its meaning. Why would you ignore what the word itself means just because a few Christians happen to identifiy with it?



    Jesus neither had any harm either in birth or during death,or will in Day of judgment,in order for us to claim though the violence he had security inside !........


    What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day it was crucified
    ?

    It means though crucifixion he had internal peace .

    What if a book claims that peace was upon X the day wasn't crucified
    ?

    It means though danger he was protected.

    and that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran ....
    I'm not trying to bring a Biblical understanding of crucifixion to the passage in the Qur'an. I AM suggesting that to use a passage that speaks of peace when that peace can be understood just based on language alone as referring to both an internal peace and external, and then select as its meaning only the external version of peace in order to substantiate the other Qur'anic passages that speak of the absence of crucifixion is to do a disservice to the Qur'an itself and force it to say more than it is actually saying in that particular passage.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    well let's reset the argument:

    my argument with you as follows:


    why it should be inferred from this passage any substantiation that John and Jesus had to die non-violent deaths?


    If we imagine that the verse to be read alone in isolation from the Quranic story of Jesus,though we can't guess yet whether the meaning should be internal or external peace or both, it will put in our minds a big question why, apart from all the prophets mentioned in the Quran ,God used such structure affirming peace on him in such 3 occasions ,why him?why no peace on Abraham the day he was born, etc...why no peace on Moses the the day he was born, etc... also why no peace on Jesus in other occasions eg,the day he preached the gospel ,the day he performed miracles,the day he ate from the table ?....... why the focus on birth,death,judgment?


    All these questions are answered in the Quran:


    In birth peace(protection) was be upon him :

    "So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said:'Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!'"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said:'O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil!
    He (The baby) said:'I am a servant of Allah , He has given me the Scriptures and made me a Prophet; And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and Zakat as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother and made me not arrogant, unblest. And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I shall be raised alive ' "(Quran 19:29-33)


    The baby made it clear...I'm not such kind of babies you expect(bastar/) I will be a prophet and not only none will ever touch me or my mother (eg,stoning) today but also the day I will die none will hurt me.....

    Death:

    "When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you to die and will raise you to myself, and will clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ." (3:56)

    The circumstances are the same and the promise God put in his mouth while a baby to be fulfilled, and as the day he was born passed in peace ,the day he die would pass in peace too.....
    none ever touched him and his blessed soul raised to Allah,and his true followers are indeed above (in morality ,a statue of nearness to Allah)those who disbelieve ,and the true followers will continue superior to the nonbelievers TILL DAY OF JUDGMENT .....till day of judgment there will be Believers and disbelievers....there will never be one day the world would lack disbelievers ...they will be there and the believers will be there too....

    till what? The day of judgment
    And ?

    to Me shall be your return and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ." (3:56)

    the judgment to such matters of faith people differ and will continue differ till the day of judgment ,according to the verse ,is by God and only he who will do that....
    there won't be a savior who comes and all in a sudden unite all diversity..... as that is against
    the law which God decided the world to be and will ever be till day of judgment..

    [011:118] Had your Lord willed, all the people would have been one congregation of believers. But they will always dispute the truth.

    If God willed all to be in one Religion he would have done it from the beginning,but to claim that all of a sudden he will change his rule and unite all for mere few years before day of judgment is far fetched idea and contradict his Quranic rule....
    the rule of humanity being exposed to test from the very beginning to the end of times.....


    Day of judgment:

    there will be the protection from hell fire ,Jesus been worshipped as god and the destiny of such false gods (if they accepted worship) is Hell.....again for being innocent ,Hell will never touch him...

    5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.


    To claim that the verse concentrate on the mental mood of Jesus such days is a shallow idea......
    we as readers would never bother with what was going on the mentality of the baby jesus or the jesus exposed to be killed etc....
    we care only for the safety of the man ...
    If he was really crucified ,there we may argue the expression peace as meaning internal satisfaction.....
    but that understanding is biblical not Quranic


    To sum up

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    The internal sense of peace even in unpeaceful times is very much a part of its meaning..

    the day Jesus was born, passed a peaceful or unpeaceful time?

    the day Jesus died ,passed peaceful or unpeaceful time?

    it passed peaceful time ,thanx to the peace(protection) Allah sent on Jesus....

    The Quran affirms it was peaceful time and you lean again to the biblical concept unpeaceful times !!....

    Jesus seems to have had internal peace (like the one me and you have now at home) all the days of his life,but there were occasions he was about to lose such mental case ,but with the divine peace that was sent upon him, he passed them and God's promise of protection (And peace be upon me
    the day I was born, die )been fulfilled .....
    Last edited by Imam; 07-16-2009 at 03:42 AM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

    http://al-azhar7.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Imam, I hope you can receive this as the compliment I truly mean it to be. I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text. But that's OK. I can see why you would choose it, and if I was a worshipper at a mosque, I believe your presentation would really speak to me. In fact, if I was an iman I would probably use it.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text. .
    And I think what you did was not a proper exegesis of the text....

    your exegesis was faulty for:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    can be understood just based on language alone as referring to both an internal peace and external. .

    you want to isolate the verse as if it is the only verse mentioned in the Quran regarding Jesus ,also your insist that what Jesus had could be


    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    internal sense of peace in unpeaceful times.
    while the Quran affirms such times as passed peaceful times thanx to the peace was sent upon Jesus....


    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    I hope you can receive this as the compliment I truly mean it to be. I think your presentation makes a better sermon than it does an exegesis of the text..
    That is not a compliment ,as I'm a prover not a preacher......
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    So be it. Your analysis remains short of proviing anything to me.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    my analysis would stand firm till you provide FROM THE QURAN that would support your original argument:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    Could they not still be experiencing God's peace even as others where treating them in unpeaceful ways?.
    What others and What are the supposed unpeaceful ways he been treated with ,whether in birth or death ?chapter and verse,plz?

    I think it is a fair request....

    as anyone who would assume ,has to strengthen such assumption with proof text...

    I strengthened mine ,now it is your turn ....


    If you won't provide answer from the Quran ,and I provided before what supports the security meaning.... then not only you should consider the discussion between us in that point is over,but also think again of the title prover and which of us should have it....
    Last edited by Imam; 07-16-2009 at 02:32 AM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    I once had a lady who was a Jehovah's Witness come to my door. After repeating herself for over an hour with logic that consisted of nothing more than making her own statements of faith as to what something meant she asserted, just as you have, that she had therefore proved her point. Well, I am sure that she did -- to herself, but not to me.

    So fine, you think that because it says that peace was upon him in his death that Jesus therefore died a non-violent death. That is what YOU think. And that is all that you have thus far proved to me, that you in fact think that. You've not yet given me any reason that I should think the same that I find even remotely convincing. I've questioned your proofs, which you for some reason seem to infer as if they are attempts by me to prove something as well. They aren't. They are just questions regarding your own proofs, points where what you are suggesting doesn't quite add up for me. But if you want to call yourself the prover of something, then knock yourself out. I'm not after any such title.

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    The Muslims’ beliefs concerning the Messiah Jesus The Son of Maryam

    Q.What are the Muslims’ beliefs concerning the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus Son of Mary)?.

    A.Praise be to Allaah.

    Our beliefs concerning the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary – peace be upon him) are those indicated by the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of our Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

    We believe that ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) was one of the slaves of Allaah, and one of His noble Messengers. Allaah sent him to the Children of Israel to call them to believe in Allaah alone and worship Him alone.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” [al-Saff 61:6]

    “But the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

    ‘Eesa was not a god or the son of God as the Christians claim.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Surely, they have disbelieved who say: ‘Allaah is the Messiah [‘Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary).’”
    [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

    “And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!” [al-Tawbah 9:30]

    The first words that ‘Eesa spoke when Allaah caused him to speak when he was in the cradle were (interpretation of the meaning):

    “He [‘Eesa (Jesus)] said: ‘Verily, I am a slave of Allaah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet’”
    [Maryam 19:30]

    We believe that Allaah supported him with miracles that proved he was speaking the truth.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “(Remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). ‘O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Rooh‑ul‑Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al‑Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, a figure like that of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: This is nothing but evident magic’” [al-Maa'idah 5:110]

    We believe that ‘Eesa was born from the Virgin Maryam with no father, and that is not impossible for Allaah Who, when He wills a thing, says “Be!” and it is.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]

    “(Remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allaah gives you the glad tidings of a Word [‘Be!’ — and he was! i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allaah.”

    He will speak to the people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous.’

    She said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He said: ‘So (it will be) for Allaah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: “Be!” and it is’”
    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:45-47]

    We believe that he permitted to the Jews some of the things that had been forbidden to them.

    Allaah tells us that ‘Eesa said to the Children of Israel (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Tawraat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allaah and obey me” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:50]

    We believe that he did not die and his enemies the Jews did not kill him, rather Allaah saved him from them and raised him up to heaven alive.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And because of their (Jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse);

    And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]:

    But Allaah raised him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allaah is Ever All‑Powerful, All‑Wise”
    [al-Nisa’ 4:156-158]

    We believe that he told his followers of the coming of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And (remember) when ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allaah unto you, confirming the Tawraat [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.’ But when he (Ahmad, i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said: ‘This is plain magic’” [al-Saff 61:6]

    We believe that he will come back down at the end of time, and will disprove the claim of his enemies the Jews that they killed him, and will disprove the claim of the Christians that he is God or the son of God, and he will not accept anything from them but Islam.

    Al-Bukhaari (2222) and Muslim (155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Maryam will descend among you [according to another report: the Hour will not begin until the son of Maryam descends among you] as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become abundant until no one will accept it.

    Soon” means it will inevitably happen quickly.

    will descend among you” means among this ummah (nation).

    “A just judge
    ” means that he will come down and rule according to this sharee’ah, and that this sharee’ah will remain and not be abrogated, rather ‘Eesa will be one of the rulers of this ummah.

    He will break the cross and kill the pigs” means he will declare as false the religion of the Christians by breaking the cross in a real sense and proving false the Christians’ claims and veneration of the cross.

    and he will abolish the jizyah”:

    Imam al-Nawawi said:

    The correct view concerning this is that he will not accept it, and he will not accept anything from the kaafirs but Islam. If any of them offer the jizyah that will not make him stop fighting them. Rather he will not accept anything but Islam or death. This is the view of Imam Abu Sulaymaan al-Khattaabi and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).

    End quote.

    Money will become abundant” – the reason for this abundance will be the descent of blessings and the spread of goodness because of justice and the absence of oppression or wrongdoing. At that time the earth will bring forth its treasures, and desire to keep money will decrease because they will know that that Hour is at hand.

    Then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.

    Ahmad (9349) narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am the closest of people to ‘Eesa ibn Maryam because there was no Prophet between him and me…” Then he mentioned his descent at the end of time. Then he said: “And he will remain for as long as Allaah wills he should remain, then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (2182).

    We believe that he will disavow himself on the Day of Resurrection of the claims that he was a god.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): 'O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

    Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’”
    [al-Maa'idah 5:116-117]

    “ ‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’” [al-Maa'idah 5:116-117]

    This is what the Muslims believe about the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him).

    Al-Bukhaari (3435) and Muslim (28) narrated from ‘Ubaadah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever bears witness that there is no god but Allaah alone, with no partner or associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger, and that Jesus is His slave and Messenger, a word which Allaah bestowed upon Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is real, and Hell is real, Allaah will admit him through whichever of the eight gates of Paradise he wishes.

    We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in faith and to cause us to die as believers.

    May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

    Islam Q&A

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/43148
    Concept of Messiah in Islam

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Question about the messiah in Islam

    Q.Who is the messiah of islam?

    A.Praise be to Allaah.

    The Muslims do not pin their hopes on someone who will save or deliver them, as is the case with the Jews, the Christians and the Raafidis (Shi’ah). Islam is complete and its rulings are complete. Perhaps what is meant in the question is the Mahdi. He will be one of the reformers of this ummah through whom Allaah will fill the earth with justice and fairness after it was filled with injustice and unfairness. Like other reformers, he will follow the Qur’aan and Sunnah and will rule according to them.

    Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    The issue of the Mahdi is well known and the ahaadeeth which speak of him are numerous and are mutawaatir and support one another. More than one of the scholars has narrated that they are mutawaatir in meaning because of their many isnaads, many narrators and many versions. They indicate that this person whose coming is promised is something real and true. His name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-‘Alawi al-Hasani, and he will be a descendent of al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn ‘Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him). By the mercy of Allaah towards this ummah, this imam will appear at the end of time and will establish justice and truth and do away with injustice and oppression. Through him Allaah will spread justice among the ummah and guide the people.

    I have studied many of the ahaadeeth about him and I saw, as al-Shawkaani and others said, and as Ibn al-Qayyim and others said, that some are saheeh (Authentic), some are hasan, and some are da’eef (weak) and manjabir (may be proven if there is corroborating evidence), containing fabricated reports. Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us, whether they are saheeh in and of themselves (saheeh li dhaatihi) or saheeh because of the existence of corroborating reports (saheeh li ghayri), or hasan in and of themselves (hasan li dhaatihi) or hasan because of the existence of corroborating reports (hasan li ghayrihi). By the same token, if the da’eef (weak reports) corroborate and support one another, then that constitutes evidence according to the scholars. So there are four categories of acceptable hadeeth according to the scholars: saheeh li dhaatihi (saheeh in and of itself), saheeh li ghayrihi (saheeh because of the existence of corroborating reports), hasan li dhaatihi (hasan in and of itself) and hasan li ghayrihi (hasan because of the existence of corroborating reports).

    This has to do with reports other than those which are mutawaatir. All the mutawaatir reports are acceptable, whether they are mutawaatir in wording or in meaning. The ahaadeeth which speak of the Mahdi are mutawaatir in meaning. And the trustworthy scholars have stated that they are sound and mutawaatir.

    We have seen the scholars state many things to be sound on the basis of less evidence than that. The truth of the matter is that the majority of scholars – if not all of them – are agreed that the Mahdi is something proven: he is real and will appear at the end of time.

    With regard to those scholars who hold odd views concerning this matter, no attention is to be paid to what they say on this matter.

    Al-Radd ‘ala man kadhaba bi’l-Ahaadeeth al-Saheehah al-Waaridah fi’l-Mahdi by Shaykh ‘Abd al-Muhsin al-‘Abbaad, p. 157.

    Shaykh Ibn Baaz was commenting on a lecture given by Shaykh al-‘Abbaad.

    There follows some information about the Mahdi:

    His name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah.

    His description: He will have a high forehead and a hooked nose.

    Al-Qaari: Sharh Mishkaat al-Masaabeeh, 10/175.

    When he will appear: At the end of time, shortly before the Hour begins. After him the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary) will descend.

    There follow some of the ahaadeeth that have been narrated concerning him:

    It was narrated that Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Mahdi is from me, with a high forehead and a hooked nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with unfairness and injustice, and he will reign for seven years.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4275; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “This world will not pass away until the earth is ruled by a man from among my family who whose name will be the same as mine.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2235. Shaykh al-Albaani said: (it is) hasan saheeh.

    It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “A group from among my ummah will continue to fight for the truth and prevail until the Day of Resurrection. Then ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will come down and their leader will say, ‘Come and lead us in prayer,’ but he will say, ‘No, you are leaders for one another, as an honour from Allaah to this ummah.’” Narrated by Muslim, 156.

    The leader mentioned in this hadeeth is the Mahdi.

    For more reports about the Mahdi, please see question no. 1252.

    Note:

    Some people misunderstand the ahaadeeth about the Mahdi and the descent of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam, so they do not work for Islam or to call people to Allaah because they are waiting for the Messiah to come down or for the Mahdi to appear. This is undoubtedly a mistake. The Muslims have to strive to make the word of Allaah supreme, to make His religion prevail and to convey the message of truth to all people. We can imagine how much the Muslims would have declined and how weak they would have become if the earlier Muslims had understood this matter in this mistaken manner and acted accordingly. Would they have been able to defeat the Tatars and Crusaders, and conquer other lands? For more information please see question no. (21221)

    And Allaah knows best.

    Islam Q&A

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/13818
    Concept of Messiah in Islam

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    peace

    May I give my odd comment on Almahdi?! ...showing why the claim (Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us)

    Are neither a sound Isnad nor sufficient to accept the concept?

    or this time the button delete post is ready?

    oh I forgot the advice

    Quote Originally Posted by '

    With regard to those scholars who hold odd views concerning this matter, no attention is to be paid to what they say on this matter.

    good way to refute the odd views,isn't it?

    in return , with regard to those who delete others sound arguments , no attention is to be paid to them.

    peace
    Last edited by Imam; 07-26-2009 at 09:51 PM.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam



    (إلزم طريق الهداية و لا يغرنك قلة السالكين و أبعد عن طريق الغواية و لا يغرنك كثرة الهالكين)



    { ادفع بالتي هي أحسن فإذا الذي بينك وبينه عداوة كأنه ولي حميم

    my blog:

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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Imam View Post
    peace

    May I give my odd comment on Almahdi?! ...showing why the claim (Those which have sound isnaads are sufficient for us)

    Are neither a sound Isnad nor sufficient to accept the concept?

    or this time the button delete post is ready?

    oh I forgot the advice

    good way to refute the odd views,isn't it?

    in return , with regard to those who delete others sound arguments , no attention is to be paid to them.

    peace
    You're proof is not sound at all and is contradictory to the Book of Allah and His Messenger . In fact rejecting the Anti-Crist amongst other things is a clear rejection of certain aspects of the Islamic creed.

    1) You shouldn't be writing books to begin with because you don't have sufficent knowledge to do so and you are misleading people according to your limited understanding of certain aspects which are in fact incorrect. To come 1400 years after the Prophet and then claim that the second coming of jesus is a false notion and belief in dajjal (anti-crist) is doubtful and whether jesus was a Prophet or not etc is complete and total nonsense. If you want references in Arabic then refer to Al Bidiyah Wal Nihaya of Ibn Khateer.

    2) Bukhari and Muslim are 110% authentic and this is clear as day light when you study the sciences of hadeeth.

    This may be beneficial for you:

    al-Bukhaari did not narrate anything directly from the Prophet , rather he narrated from trustworthy shaykhs, who attained the highest degree of memorization, precision and trustworthiness, who in turn had narrated from equally reliable shaykhs, all the way back to the Sahaabah who narrated from the Messenger of Allaah . The smallest number of narrators between al-Bukhaari and the Prophet is three. So we rely upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari because he chose the narrators from whom he transmitted hadeeth with the utmost care, and they are the most trustworthy. Moreover, he would not write down any hadeeth in his Saheeh until he had done ghusl, then prayed two rak’ahs and prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah to guide him with regard to writing down this hadeeth; then he would write it down. It took him sixteen years to write this book, which the ummah accepted and unanimously agreed that what is narrated in it is saheeh; and Allaah has protected this ummah from agreeing upon misguidance.

    Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his introduction to Sharh Muslim (1/14): “The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) are agreed that the most sound of books after the Qur’aan are the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim, which were accepted by the ummah. The book of al-Bukhaari is the more sound and the more beneficial of the two.”
    So my sincere advice is to study under teachers who are trustworthy and do not limit your self to just books and the internet.

    Case closed.
    Concept of Messiah in Islam

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Concept of Messiah in Islam

    Without having to go further into the topic of the validity of hadeeth in Bukhari and Muslim - even though their soundness is a conses amongst Muslim Scholars - I'll point you to a few threads and websites, lectures etc that deal with this subject or are relevent to the topic.

    http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...eeh-sound.html
    http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...ml#post1192049
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21523
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20153
    http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...hahullaah.html
    http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...-lectures.html
    http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...sir-qadhi.html

    Lectures by Abu Usamah at-Thahabi

    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 01 Download
    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 02 Download
    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 03 Download
    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 04 Download
    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 05 Download
    Introduction to Imam Bukhari - Part 06 Download

    This book below has a series of lectures to it as well

    Concept of Messiah in Islam

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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