Christians believe the Bible. According to the Holy Bible, Jesus was without sin. He became sin for us (His death on the cross) so that we won't have to be judged for our sin. He is the only one who could do this because he had no sin. He took the punishment for us.
Christians believe that they cannot earn there way to salvation and righteousness with God. They don't trust in following the law or commandments. That is not to say they don't obey them. They do, but we know it cannot save us. For by faith are you saved through God's grace. It is a gift not of works otherwise we can take the credit for our own salvation. Eph 2: 8,9. We believe in praying without ceasing.
We believe that putting our faith in Jesus alone and with God's grace we are saved from spiritual death. We believe it was God's plan from the beginning. Jesus is the word of God who became flesh. Jesus is the light of the world. We believe He is comming back to judge the living and the dead, and that there is no other way for man to have a right relationship with God.[/QUOTE]
Because whilst Jesus walked this earth in human form he had to rely on his Father and God's Spirit for strength and power. This is evident in many of his prayers and conversations with the Father.
ok Glo but still doesnt make sense to me, but as im no good at debating will leave it there
"O ye who belive! Endure, outdo all others in endurance, be ready, and observe your duty to Allah, in order that you may succeed"
It depends.God is one and only.He gave The Holy Ghost to Jesus,to enable him to fulfil his mission.The Holy Ghost is a God`s power and God`s way of acting in Jesus,which we admire in Trinity.
Jesus is not God.He never described himself as God.He was always admitting,that God is in heaven and was praying to Him.
I'm sure a lot of christians would disagree with you - although I agree with you.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
jenny, i believe that u somehow one day will find an answer....!insyaallah....
even the Jews has known that Muhammad SAW/Ahmad SAW.....was stated in ancient jews holy books...like Torah,injil,Zabur psalm and Quran...there closing of the prophethood is Muhammad SAW...in jesus Gospel there is state a there have a, jesus speaks to his disciples that the last human after Me is a son of man,named Muhammad SAW....was the last prophet of the mankind.Even Adam A.S...the first human in the world...also know that the Muhammad SAW soul was made in the early stage before Adam A.S..God is grEat and powErful...!Allahu akbar.
Jalla Allahu Fi 'oulah, Ma lana rabbun siwah.
laa ilaha illa Allah
Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
Jesus is not God.He never described himself as God.He was always admitting,that God is in heaven and was praying to Him.
i understand u understand the concept...but Not much Christian Brothers and sisters understand the concept, i know that the messiah is bringing the True christianity but there lots of change in the book of God, Injeel or injil given to Jesus A.S....
Jalla Allahu Fi 'oulah, Ma lana rabbun siwah.
laa ilaha illa Allah
There is no intermediary between God and His creation. God is the most merciful and He hears the supplicant whenever he calls on Him. God is always there to listen to sincere repentance and never turns away from the sincere. There is no need to accept any blood sacrifice. We are told that no matter how many good deeds you have done it will still prove insufficient to acquire for oneself paradise. We can only hope in the mercy of God alone.
That being said:
You will also notice that there are three types of atonement given for sin in the OT. The only atonement was not limited to blood sacrifice; i.e. charity, repentance, and blood sacrifice.
Leviticus 17:11:
"This is because the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul."
Is the above said verse justification for what you have stated about the need for blood atonement?
***Keep in mind also that the blood sacrifice was only required for unintentional sins.
Numbers 15:27-31
If a person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one-year-old female goat for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven . . . . The person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people, because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be on him.
Jesus could not die for anyone's sins, whether committed intentionally or not. To begin with, the Jews were strictly prohibited from offering human sacrifices. The Bible warns the Jews that it is a grave sin to bring a human being as a sacrifice. In the Book of Leviticus, only distinct species of animals are permitted for use in blood sacrifices.
The ancient pagan religions promoted the same idea about atonement as Christians do today (e.g. Molech). They would joyfully offer a child into the fires of their sacrificial offering in order to expiate their sins and appease the gods. Hmmm… why would a child sacrifice be used in this pagan ritual rather than an adult? The reason is because a child is thoroughly innocent of sin. A child, they reasoned, could not have committed sin and therefore mirrored the animal sacrifice which also had to be unblemished
Hosea 14:2-3 states,
Take words with you, and return to the LORD. Say to Him, "Take away all iniquity; receive us graciously, for we will render for bulls the offering of our lips."
No man can atone for the sins of another, each person is accountable for their own works. I believe Ezekiel Chapter 13 mentions that.
I just wanted to take note that Christians are very, very adamant as you well already know about the incarnation of God into man and 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) being both God and man.
About 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) according to the Bible, God created 'Isa (as) with his own hand before anything else was created. Through 'Isa (as) Christians mention the world was made. So, it is now God's will that we worship 'Isa (as) in order to please God. I mean, I was speaking to a Christian about the verses in the Bible where 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) says, "...the father is greater than I..." and a bunch of other verses where 'Isa (as) makes distinctions between who is giving him this power. The Christian agreed saying, you are right all power belongs to the father because they are naturally all one in the same. It was a sly response.
My question is this:
IF GOD WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO HUMANITY THAT HE WAS ONE. THAT HE HAD NO PARTNER AND NO THREE DIMENSIONAL MAKE UP. THAT HE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO BE WORSHIPPED, WHAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE CHRISTIAN TO NEGLECT THIS TRINITARIAN BELIEF?
OBVIOUSLY, GOD SAYING HE IS ONE THROUGHOUT HUMANITY WAS UNDERSTOOD AND MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS 'ONE AND ONLY' AS A CHILD WOULD HOLD UP ONE FINGER IF YOU ASK THEM TO HOLD UP ONE FINGER. REMEMBER THAT THE PROPHET (PBUT) WERE NOT GREEK PHILOSPHERS, THEY CAME WITH A SIMPLE MESSAGE FOR SIMPLE PEOPLE ALIKE. IF A BELIEF AS THE TRINITY WAS SO VITAL--GOD WOULD HAVE MADE IT CLEAR AS HE DID ABOUT HI ONENESS.
THE ONLY IDEAS THAT CHRISTIANS PUT FOWARD ABOUT 'ISA'S (AS) PRE-EXISTENCE COMES FROM OTHERS WHO WRITE ABOUT IT. IT DOES NOT COME FROM 'ISA (AS). A MYSTICISM IS CREATED AND THEN THE ENTIRE BOOK IS SEEN THROUGH THE CHANNEL OF SOMEONE ELSE'S TAKE ON 'ISA (AS).
as 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) says, ".....INNEE ABDULLAAH..." I AM A SERVANT OF ALLAAH.
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
(John 10:27-30)
God does indeed know best, and with him all things are possible.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I just wanted to take note that Christians are very, very adamant as you well already know about the incarnation of God into man and 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) being both God and man.
About 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) according to the Bible, God created 'Isa (as) with his own hand before anything else was created.
Not quite. With respects to Jenny who is saying something quite different with regard to Jesus than what I believe is found in the Bible, the historic teaching of the Church is not so much that God made Jesus, but that God became incarnate in Jesus. There is a difference.
(I can go on if you like, but I don't promise that doing so will not be more confusing for it requires understanding how one can speak of God the Son without speaking of the human being Jesus.)
According to the Holy Bible, Jesus was without sin.
I would like to know where the Bible says that(I'm not implying that it doesn't)
Hebrews 4:14-15
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
is that mother mary the mother of the world....also without sin..
Mother of the world? What are you talking about?
As far as Mary being without sin, that is a doctrine that was introduced in the Catholic church as an interpretation they believe can be inferred from the scriptures, but no where is it explicitly mentioned and to the best of my knowledge no one other than Catholics believe it.
God does indeed know best, and with him all things are possible.
"For as the (human) body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many."
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
Glo, as you can see from the above verse (there are more but its late here) that "I and the father are one" is speaking about one in purpose. But if you insist on interpreting that as a sign of divinity, then we are all just as divine as Jesus pbuh eh?
Glo, as you can see from the above verse (there are more but its late here) that "I and the father are one" is speaking about one in purpose. But if you insist on interpreting that as a sign of divinity, then we are all just as divine as Jesus pbuh eh?
I disagree. The way that Jesus used it as an absolute statement of comingling his identity with the Father is different from the metaphorical way in which Paul used it. However, the Johannian passage is more on point. And here I think that Jesus is indeed talking about human beings sharing in the divine nature. Not in our own power, but because of the work of Christ that he allows to be appropriated into our lives by faith. We are not divine, but we were created in the divine image and when that is restored in us, then are able to return to full fellowship with God was we were intended to live with him from the beginning. This new communion that we have with God in Jesus Christ is very similar to the nature of the divine union that already exists within the Godhead where the three persons (Father, Son, and Spirit) are all one.
Hebrews 4:14-15
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
Why is such a big deal made about the biblical view of him without sin? Does it mean they have this big sign above his head saying "I don't have sin so gimme yours!"
Person A: See that guy with long hair there?
Person B: Yeah?
Person A: He got no sin.
Person B: Nice! Just the man I can dump my fornication sins on.
Last edited by AntiKarateKid; 07-12-2009 at 10:00 PM.
"So, with Jesus (peace be upon him) people are able to do enough good deeds to enter heaven?"
I'm not sure you can say that- your salvation does not come about by the deeds. It is not by your actions that you win grace. It is a Gift of Grace from GOD - Jesus has paid that debt that sin creates.
We know that GOD is the author and that He inspired man to write He message down- what He wanted man to know.
The horrific events of the Old Testment is our past, our history showing why we need Jesus.
The so called contradictions are in fact complementary- the synoptic Gospel- appear to be differences until you dig deeper. Many verses of the Holy Bible can be taken at face value but many also have even deeper richer meaning that come out the more you read the Holy Bible.
I believe that for you to truly understand the Quran you must read the Holy Bible.
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Jalla Allahu Fi 'oulah, Ma lana rabbun siwah.
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