Would any theists here behave less morally if "there was no God"?

**AntiKarateKid** · 07-02-2009

Assuming there could even be a universe without Allah, would anyone here act less moral?

Now just to make it clear, let's not insult people for their answers.

For me, I definitely would. My suitmate recently stole a laptop from the Apple Store. Now, I was entertaining the idea of stealing from a thief, which was funny in an ironic way, but decided not to because I value my soul's well-being and Allah's pleasure too much.

Other than the "well being of society" which is a very ambiguous term, I see no reason not to be less moral. I really don't even have to give a hoot about others.

What does it matter? Any comments by fellow theists?

**The_Prince** · 07-03-2009

offcourse, i would go drink alcohol, fornicate alot, and many other things. no questionnnnnnnn.

**The_Prince** · 07-03-2009

i would also think porn, and all this sex stuff is normal natural human culture, and very lovely, and nothing wrong with it.

**HopeFul** · 07-03-2009

I dont like this assumption :S

**The_Prince** · 07-03-2009

btw, for me personally, im not assuming, i know for sure 100% i will do all these things. from day 1.

**AntiKarateKid** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by The_Prince

btw, for me personally, im not assuming, i know for sure 100% i will do all these things. from day 1.

I agree 100%. Why even wait till day 1? Day 0 is where its at!

**Yanal** · 07-03-2009

This is a perspective question which has been asked to variety of Muslims. If there was no God how would we know? There are to many religions with monotheism so I would easily adapt into those. But do you mean if in every religion NO GOD exsisted. If that is so I would carry out my life without praying but still being the simple man,the only change for me would be my interest in books. My parents would still stop me from doing various things even if NO GOD exisits such as: smoking, watching nasty stuff and nearly the same restrictions would still imply to me. Though I am 100% sure Allah does exist and Islam is our religion.

**Sarada** · 07-03-2009

Me personally? Would I act differently if there was no God, or, I believed there was no God? Not in the least.

There was a period of years when I believed that there was no God.

During that time, I was still as ethical in my behaviour as I am now. And I believe that all people are born good.

I believe one's ethics should come from one's inner being, not from some promise of reward or threat of punishment.

**Yanal** · 07-03-2009

^ I think your last part is excellent.

It is all up to your personaility.

**Pygoscelis** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

Other than the "well being of society" which is a very ambiguous term, I see no reason not to be less moral. I really don't even have to give a hoot about others.

You only care about others because you are told to by your God? I'm not sure how to put this less bluntly, but doesn't that make you a bit of a sociopath?

**ژاله** · 07-03-2009

there cant be a universe without Allah.and no one can be there if He didnt create him.the assumption is non-sensical,which implies the question is pointless.

**Trumble** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

I really don't even have to give a hoot about others.

That's fine, until you remember they don't "even have to give a hoot" about you, either. Moral conduct is not just altruistic it is also mutually beneficial, and in everybody's self-interest, God or no god.

**aamirsaab** · 07-03-2009

I probably would actually. But, thankfully, my parents and family are socially-well adjusted and ''brainwashed'' me with good ethics and high moral standards (which I am forever in their debt for)

This alone is enough to motivate me to behave morally. What the God card does is reinforce it especially when I'm down in the dumps/bad mood.

But I think I can safely say that without God, I'd have got into a lot of fights (verbal and physical - heck, I'd probably be in one right now!). I'd also be in a permanent state of depression since life is a 1 in a million chance (human reproduction system kiddos!). I would see statistics instead of miracles, so I wouldn't appreciate half the things I have.

I'd also be very arrogant and possibly drunk: and why not, given that I'm a statistical insignificance? I'm not even a percent of earth life; less so than in this solar system; even less in this galaxy...what does it matter if I play by the rules or not? The only way to achieve any significance (for myself anyway) would be to act like an attention seeking douche.

Fortunately, I'm the complete opposite of that

**Sarada** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by Trumble

That's fine, until you remember they don't "even have to give a hoot" about you, either. Moral conduct is not just altruistic it is also mutually beneficial, and in everybody's self-interest, God or no god.

Well said, Trumble.

**GreyKode** · 07-03-2009

I kind of agree 100% with aamirsaab.

**AntiKarateKid** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

You only care about others because you are told to by your God? I'm not sure how to put this less bluntly, but doesn't that make you a bit of a sociopath?

I was expecting some foolishness like this.

Pygo, is that a typo or have do you really have more than 1000 posts here? Because I can't fathom how someone with that much exposure could come off sounding as ignorant and silly as any old atheist off the street.

You still don't understand that God is more than just a enforcer of laws. Without the soul, without a guarantee of good overcoming evil, without good and evil, there is nothing stopping someone from doing whatever they want.

I may not go around murdering but I sure as hell would steal alot more. Simply because if I can, I would. Nothing would happen to me and I don't have to give a hoot about the sap who gets stolen from. Tough luck. I'm living only for 70 years longer and I'll make sure those are the best years of my life. I don't gain anything from giving back the wallet.

To be blunt, you gave me the exact response I was expecting, an insult. Because you can't give me a reason besides ambiguous appeals to emotion.

**AntiKarateKid** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by Trumble

That's fine, until you remember they don't "even have to give a hoot" about you, either. Moral conduct is not just altruistic it is also mutually beneficial, and in everybody's self-interest, God or no god.

Sure. I can choose to be mutually beneficial to my partners in crime. Done deal. Got any better reason than "if you help others, they'll help you". Not a very deep response.

**جوري** · 07-03-2009

I don't think so, but obviously I'd not fulfill many of my moral and social obligations which is actually how I was before I practiced.. I.e fast for therapeutic purposes if at all, I wouldn't pray, charity would be sporadic, I'd probably not be nice to alot of people that I am nice to out of pure respect and obligation.

wouldn't do the biggies because I don't have it in me, but don't see why any biggie would matter? like murdering if I could get away of people I thought deserved murder, like drunk drivers and rapists, I'd probably justify that as societal morality the law would be very subjective if I didn't and I don't think the state handles such cases correctly.. my sense of peace, justice and restoration of balance would be also very subjective, I'd carry out vigilante justice and have a very skewed understanding of what it is...

Not sure honestly if an atheist could get away with a perfect crime, theft murder, with no chance of punishment or being caught but alot of personal gain, what would stop them?
They speak of innate goodness, and that we are born with it, but that is as much a belief as the belief in God is a belief.. it is very subjective ...
you can believe you are doing good when you are in fact pretty evil, if your mind justifies it to you...

so anyhow to make a point, during my non believing days, I didn't pray, did fast just out of social obligations, I did give to charity because it made me feel good but it was for the feeling not for the sense of really wanting to reach out and help someone ...

**Trumble** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

Sure. I can choose to be mutually beneficial to my partners in crime. Done deal. Got any better reason than "if you help others, they'll help you". Not a very deep response.

Actually, it was deep enough in some form or another for Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Mill, Rawls and most of the other important political philosophers over the last few centuries, although I suspect they all gave the matter rather more thought than you have. I really would be totally wasting my time if I tried to explain why, wouldn't I?

Quick hint, though. Far from a "done deal" your limited arrangement with your 'partners in crime' would leave you little if any better off than you were before. Partly because most of the rest of the human race would be somebody else's partners in crime, but mostly because you couldn't trust your own partners as far as you could throw them. As they couldn't trust you either, it just comes to who pre-empts who with a knife in the back first.

**Pygoscelis** · 07-03-2009

Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

Pygo, is that a typo or have do you really have more than 1000 posts here?

Its is a typo. I just got here yesterday. Who are you?

without good and evil, there is nothing stopping someone from doing whatever they want.

And yet here we atheists are, behaving just as if not more morally than you theists.

I may not go around murdering but I sure as hell would steal alot more. Simply because if I can, I would. Nothing would happen to me and I don't have to give a hoot about the sap who gets stolen from. Tough luck. I'm living only for 70 years longer and I'll make sure those are the best years of my life. I don't gain anything from giving back the wallet.

So like I said, you are admitting you are a sociopath here. No, that isn't me looking to insult you. It fits what you are saying. You have stated that you would be ammoral if not for your God belief, so I hope you don't ever lose your faith.