....If thou knowest not thy God, thou art a slave of men;
And if thou dost, thy slaves are kings and potentates.
The heart’s freedom is kingly; its slavery is death,
It is for thee to decide — to be a king or a slave.
[Baal-e-Jibreel, Allama Iqbal 1935]
Pygoscelis, you are an idiot. firstly you implied that you disliked it becuase it sounds like music, and now you say you'd dig it if it had a drum beat. what?
secondly, that "nasalness" is probably the result of how an individual may recite. i.e not everyone is going to sound the same, everyone will sound different. and yes i have heard some of this reciter before, and to me he does sound abit nasal. its not fair to discredit, mock and criticize in an attempt to ruin it for everyone else, just because you dont like it (though judging by your words im inclined to think your heart has actually been captivated).
take your hate mongering and mockery somewhere else.
to whoever is interested: the same chapter by a different reciter. this
...desperate for husnul-khitaam...
please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.
The tonal quality comes from the specific placement of the words. Each word if pronounced properly can be thought of as being a note. While it is possible to write tonal poetry, it becomes pure nonsense as nobody has been able to arrive at achieving the tone and have the words be logical and sensible. Every other bit of informative writing, in Arabic, sounds quite gruff with a somewhat Germanic guttural sound to it.
Now THAT is interesting. Thanks for pointing that out Woodrow. I often learn things from your posts So the tonal nature is in itself qualitative, as opposed to gregorian chants which are stylistic (or done to "honor" the spirit moreso than to prove the message).
Non Muslims, listen to this - Do you find it sounding Peaceful?
Not a sound you are likely to hear outside of an Islamic Nation. To us it is our call to prayer and tells us to prepare and the reason why. Unlike Church Bells that there is no escaping from.
Now THAT is interesting. Thanks for pointing that out Woodrow. I often learn things from your posts So the tonal nature is in itself qualitative, as opposed to gregorian chants which are stylistic (or done to "honor" the spirit moreso than to prove the message).
Arabic is quite an interesting Language. Most words are written with just 3 letters, so the proper pronunciation is all important to understanding the meaning. The Qur'anic Arabic is the only written form with full pronunciation marks and location of appropriate pauses. Any reader of Arabic can get the proper pronunciation, greatly reducing the probability of misunderstanding what was written.
The pronunciation of the Qur'an is essential for knowing the actual meaning. It is not pronounced as it is simply because we like the sound. (Which most of us do)
An odd bit of trivia, I have a very severe hearing loss and can not hear most spoken words. But, I have no problem in hearing and understanding Qur'anic recitations.
No, you didn't convert, but you have now heard the message of warning. Sorry, but now you can't use the excuse of ignorance on Judgment Day. Won't you take heed before its too late? Nobody is promised tomorrow.
Why do they always "recite" this like it is some sort of song? That's probably good for those who already believe (like gregorian chants or something). But it is more than a little alienating and off putting to outsiders. Can they not simply speak it?
Another reason for a melodious recitation is that we are instructed to beautify the recitation of the Quran. It is not like we're reciting the Gettysburg Address, but rather the very words of Allah. For the few surahs that I have memorized in Arabic, a beautiful recitation such as the one you heard is very uplifting - somewhat akin to the gospel songs I grew up listening to.
For us Muslims living in western countries such as USA, I believe that we have a responsibility to share the message of Islam with the unbelievers. It is not our place to guide them, as guidance comes only from Allah, but rather to inform them of the Truth and to warn them of the coming Day of Judgment.
Thanks again Woodrow. It is cool when I actually get to learn things here.
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
No, you didn't convert, but you have now heard the message of warning. Sorry, but now you can't use the excuse of ignorance on Judgment Day. Won't you take heed before its too late? Nobody is promised tomorrow.
And the same can be said to you by the Mormons, and Jehovas Witnesses and other Christians. I suspect that he regards your warning the same way you regard theirs.
And the same can be said to you by the Mormons, and Jehovas Witnesses and other Christians. I suspect that he regards your warning the same way you regard theirs.
Regarding modern day Christianity, you are exactly correct and I am confident in my choice. However, I haven't had a Mormon or Jehovah Witness explain his religion to me. Each person thinks that his way is the Straight Way and, God willing, I will adhere to that of Islam unless someone shows me differently. If there is a God and a Judgment Day, how do you think that atheists will be judged?
Non Muslims, listen to this - Do you find it sounding Peaceful?
I don't find it especially peaceful, but I do think it sounds awesome, in the literal sense of the word. There are some pleasing vowel sounds in Arabic that I haven't heard in other languages, and I like to hear them in recitations. I was surprised to hear musical instruments all the way through this recording as I thought they were forbidden.
Part of the melodic content of the recitations I've heard relies on the use of blue thirds and sevenths, which can also be heard in many Western forms of music, particularly jazz, blues and rock. There are also flattened fifths, which are used in a similar way, often when the reciter produces several notes for a single syllable (called melisma in Western music). That particular recitation also uses what we would call the harmonic minor scale, perhaps other scales as well. Are there specific scales used for recitations in the Islamic tradition?
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
The tonal quality comes from the specific placement of the words. Each word if pronounced properly can be thought of as being a note.
Do the words specify actual notes, or is the reciter free to improvise to a certain extent? I'm not sure that each word simply represents one note, as we can hear more than one note on individual syllables, let alone words, can't we?
I second the comment about learning things from your posts, Woodrow.
Now THAT is interesting. Thanks for pointing that out Woodrow. I often learn things from your posts So the tonal nature is in itself qualitative, as opposed to gregorian chants which are stylistic (or done to "honor" the spirit moreso than to prove the message).
I am a beginner learner in reading/reciting the Qur'an properly, so I might not be able to explain to you the full nature/complexity in reading the Qur'an properly.
Each letter in Qur'an arabic has their own special makhraj (makhroj), it means the source of the sound of the letter. it is not like saying "A, B, C, D" where it does not matter how you say the letter and where it comes from. There are 5 global makhraj and 17 specific makhraj.
In order to be a good qari/qariah (reciter of the qur'an) and hafiz/hafizah (memoriser of the qur'an), this first basic step must be mastered, because you will not be able to convey the full meanings of the words and sentences without pronouncing the letter perfectly.
And then you also have to master the sifaat (nature) of the letter. The sifaat of the letters are divided into 2: those that have the opposites (5 sifaats) and those that do not have (7 sifaats). The sifaats depend on whether you emit the sound in hard or soft, in clear or vague, in strong or weak or medium, in rising tone or lowering tone, attached or separated, whether it sounds like bird, or vibrate, or long etc. These makhraj and sifaat give certain characteristics to each and individual letters.
And only then you learn about tajweed which is the laws of the sound of the letters/words depending on their marks, locations and interactions with other letters (huruf), where to stop, where to pause, where to read long, where to read short, etc. Learning tajweed properly is not easy but there are qur'an text which are completed with tajweed marks to help beginner like me reading the Qur'an properly. Now you understand that it is essential that to recite the qur'an properly you MUST have a teacher/instructor, and hence the qur'an is conveyed and transmitted by way of oral back from prophet Muhammad SAW and confirmed/synchronised with the text.
There are also 4 different levels of speed in reading the qur'an: At tahqiq (very slow and tajweed are read perfectly, this is to teach how to study the Quran), At tarteel (slow and with tajweed, this is the best way to read the qur'an as prescribed in QS.25:32), at tadweer (medium speed with tajweed, normally read by imaam during shalah), and al hadr (fast but still with tajweed).
Apart from these, a good reciter must understand arabic to be able to give emphasis on certain words/sentences, however each qari/qariah are free to have their own styles, some people like certain styles more than the others. For example: there are those who prefer Imaam Sudais more than imaam ghamdi, and the other way round.
As br. woodrow has explained earlier, this is all part of the miracle of the qur'an, how every letter, every word convey specific meanings that cannot be fully translated. Consider this: Is it possible that an illiterate man in the 7th century created the guidelines for the mankind, addressing every aspects of humankind in this world and hereafter, over intermittent periods of 23 years (where no editing was possible), in a literary style that is still the peak of arabic language even today, in a style that is unlike any other literary work in the past 1,400 years, containing predictions that came true and mathematics as well as scientific facts that is impossible to achieve if it were written or created by a mere man, let alone an illiterate one?
Befitting the theme of this thread, you all non-muslims have now heard the message. It is up to you to set aside your arrogance and really dig deep to learn more about Islam with open heart and open mind, because you no longer have an excuse that you have not heard the message of Islam.
Do the words specify actual notes, or is the reciter free to improvise to a certain extent? I'm not sure that each word simply represents one note, as we can hear more than one note on individual syllables, let alone words, can't we?
)
Peace
Perhaps note was not the exact word to use. But I can not think of any other word to express the tonal quality and how in each ayyat a tonal pattern comes into play that continues in each ayyat of a Surah, even though the words change. To approximate here is a transliteration of Surah al_Fatiha. Although from the transliteration you will not get the exact pronunciation I think you can see the overall pattern for this surat. Also be aware that in Arabic the words run together when written You very seldom see any Arabic words written as a stand alone word.
Iyyaka na`budu wa 'iyyaka nasta`in
Ihdina-s-sirata-l-mustaqima
Sirat alladhina 'an `amta `alayhim
Ghayri-l-maghdubi `alayhim wa la-d-daallin
Now to listen to it as it is recited, I think you will see what I mean by each word being a note.
There are several different tempos the Qur'an can be recited. But as far as personal improvisation that is not permitted. There are 10 accepted recitation styles. 7 of which are widespread and 3 are not widely used. the most common style is Hafs and is used world wide. The differences of each style are very subtle and only a person with a keen ear would notice any difference in tone.
Hear is al Fatiha recited by 13 different reciters and covering all 10 styles. I personally can not differentiate one from the other. But I do have very poor hearing.
Now go back to the first post and listen again to al-Haqqah and notice how even though these 2 Surats are far apart from each other, the tones are still very similar. You can take any combination of the 114 Surats and still keep the same unification as if there is no break from one to the other. No matter what order the surats are recited or by whom any Muslim, even a newbie will recognize they are listening to the Qur'an. Any Hafiz (Person who has memorized the Qur'an) will immediately catch any error in a recitation. One of the reasons we are so certain that what is recited is identical to what was recited 1400 years ago.
Regarding modern day Christianity, you are exactly correct and I am confident in my choice. However, I haven't had a Mormon or Jehovah Witness explain his religion to me. Each person thinks that his way is the Straight Way and, God willing, I will adhere to that of Islam unless someone shows me differently. If there is a God and a Judgment Day, how do you think that atheists will be judged?
Quick answer is of course that they won't be, because there will be no Judgment Day and this is all mythology.
But if one of these religions is actually correct then it depends entirely on which religion we're talking about. I do notice that most seem to care far more about people worshiping false Gods than people worshiping no Gods though.
This ties directly into Pascal's Wager and all its flaws.
I am a beginner learner in reading/reciting the Qur'an properly, so I might not be able to explain to you the full nature/complexity in reading the Qur'an properly
Well for a "beginner" you certainly do know a lot! Thank you for that informative post. It is nice when we can actually learn in this forum instead of bicker as per norm
Quick answer is of course that they won't be, because there will be no Judgment Day and this is all mythology.
But if one of these religions is actually correct then it depends entirely on which religion we're talking about. I do notice that most seem to care far more about people worshiping false Gods than people worshiping no Gods though.
This ties directly into Pascal's Wager and all its flaws.
Yes, you could be right that we will all just cease to exist when we die and you are free to believe that as the Christians are free to believe that Jesus is God Incarnate. I chose to believe as I do with the hope of eternal bliss in Paradise. If in the end it is all only a myth then it won't matter that I spent my life as a Muslim - at least I will have lived what I see as a good life.
I see your point about caring more about people worshipping false gods or ascribing partners with God than those who have no faith at all. For myself, it is incomprehensible for this universe and life itself to exist by chance without a Creator orchestrating the whole afair. I have a hard time relating to atheists who deny the existence of God. In contrast, as a former Christian, I can relate to their beliefs and can see where they differ from my own.
Quick answer is of course that they won't be, because there will be no Judgment Day and this is all mythology.
But if one of these religions is actually correct then it depends entirely on which religion we're talking about. I do notice that most seem to care far more about people worshiping false Gods than people worshiping no Gods though.
This ties directly into Pascal's Wager and all its flaws.
Everybody worships a God or Gods - be it a stone, a women, yourself - (your emotions or intellect). Nobody worships nothing.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
To make that stick you would have to water down the word "worship" to it being meaningless.
If you go by the English word for worship, yes. Not so with the Arabic one.
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
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So the tonal nature is in itself qualitative, as opposed to gregorian chants which are stylistic (or done to "honor" the spirit moreso than to prove the message).
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