List why I was not satisfied with my Ex religion

Riana17 · May 25, 2011

I do not wish to offend anyone, this is purely my personal opinion and I hope this will benefit others to decide:

1. Catholic was founded by HUMAN - the word christian or catholic will never be found in bible as well as the word "BIBLE" itself
2. Bible is not (purely) words of God, it is from the word BIBLIA that confirms it is collection of (hundreds) of books, which means it is the words of the authors.
God or the prophets were not directly talking to each other. Also the same book has been revised countless times
3. There is Only ONE GOD - this is first 4 out of 10 Commandments of God
4. Countless verses in Bible confirms there is only One God
5. Sex occurs frequently in the bible - this is far attributable to the WORD OF GOD

JESUS in BIBLE:
1. He is not God - if he is God becoz he dont have a father, the right goes more to Adam & Eve whom were created from nothing
2. He didnt die: Bible confirm he was hangry and looking for food (John)
3. He fast, ate, circumsized, sad, upset, chased, hangry, tired, like all human
4. He was praying (the way Muslim prays today)
5. He confirms that the biggest sin a man can commit is believing in Multiple gods

Whereas everyone blv JESUS Died, so if he died, who was God - taking care of this world when he was dead
I dont think that those of Jesus statues is Jesus for real when there was no camera/video etc to support it.

I have like 13pages earlier but I shortlisted the things I could remember for now.

Just sharing, SALAM

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

andrea17 said:
I do not wish to offend anyone, this is purely my personal opinion and I hope this will benefit others to decide:

Hi Andrea. From an outsider's point of view, who is neither Muslim nor Christian, the below appears to be primarily if not entirely based on your faith and I would address it as follows:

1. Catholic was founded by HUMAN - the word christian or catholic will never be found in bible as well as the word "BIBLE" itself

Islam was also founded by a human. It does not matter if the word Christian or Muslim appear in a text, because of point number two.

2. Bible is not (purely) words of God, it is from the word BIBLIA that confirms it is collection of (hundreds) of books, which means it is the words of the authors.
God or the prophets were not directly talking to each other. Also the same book has been revised countless times

The Quran is not written by God either. Just like the bible it is a book written by a human hand. Both claim to be inspired or dictated by God. Both require faith to believe that. That one is a single book and one is a collection of books, assembled through the guidance of divine spirit a christian would claim, makes little difference

3. There is Only ONE GOD - this is first 4 out of 10 Commandments of God
4. Countless verses in Bible confirms there is only One God

A Christian agrees that there is only one God. They just have the weird concept of the trinity to complicate things a little. And if you think the Christian trinity is hard to understand, try the Hindu religion

5. Sex occurs frequently in the bible - this is far attributable to the WORD OF GOD

I don't see why this would be relevant.

JESUS in BIBLE:
1. He is not God - if he is God becoz he dont have a father, the right goes more to Adam & Eve whom were created from nothing

That is an interesting point I haven't seen made before. You're right, Adam didn't have a mother and neither did Eve. I'm not so sure that "not having a birth father makes him God" is a central Christian claim though. Doesn't it have more to do with being born of a virgin (and thus being pure)? And isn't even that a few steps short of being the core of the religion?

2. He didnt die: Bible confirm he was hangry and looking for food (John)

There is a lot of debate over this point. Both of your religions base it on your faiths.

3. He fast, ate, circumsized, sad, upset, chased, hangry, tired, like all human

Why is that relevant?

4. He was praying (the way Muslim prays today)

Why is that relevant?

5. He confirms that the biggest sin a man can commit is believing in Multiple gods

This is true. But Christians will argue that they don't have multiple Gods. They even have a history of killing people who worship other Gods, or who have none. You and I both would be slaughtered by them in times gone by simply for holding the views we do.

I dont think that those of Jesus statues is Jesus for real when there was no camera/video etc to support it.

This we agree on.

May Ayob · May 25, 2011

Salaam to all

Brother , i dont understand if you are an atheist as you have slected why are you trying to refute for what she has said , she explained her point of view which i agree with.
It doesnt really matter if they used to kill people, they are responsible for the death of many innocent lifes , and No one but God has the right to judge who is following the correct path or not. What they did was a disgusting crime , and nothing justifies it.

Secondly how can worshipping Jesus and his mother not be ascociating other partners with God.?
It is wether, you agree or not , No one but God should be worshipped, God and God alone.

3rdly what do you mean why is this rleveant, is eating , drinking , and human needs are attribution that you would belive God posses , Exalted is he.

A word of God should be clear guidance to humanity , not speaking about explicit and mythological disgusting immoral fables, it is very simple to understand that religion is to lisft up the soul and spirit , not to make you a confused animal that is running after worldy desires.

I quite question your atheism , ive had a teacher who was just like you in points of view , he used to claim that he was an atheist and he did his best to evangelise people in school , and what do you know he turned out to be a priest in our country's Church of Christ.

Salaam

May Ayob · May 25, 2011

Please return to a precious book called , misqouting Jesus and you will realise that no christian institution today even has a copy , of copy of a copy , of copy , of a copy of the original text that was inspired to Christ Pbuh.

Peace to all.

Who Am I? · May 25, 2011

A couple of these issues mentioned are things I am struggling with right now in my own faith of Christianity. I have to admit that I am not completely sold on Islam either yet. I guess at this point I am sort of a blend of Christian and Muslim, with maybe a little deism thrown in. There are things about both religions that I like and there are things about both that I dislike. I am not sure I will ever find the one faith I can completely agree on, but I will keep trying to find it.

Salaam...

May Ayob · May 25, 2011

Salaam to all

Bro just a guy can you explain further what exactly you are struggling with so that our brothers and sister here can help you more

Who Am I? · May 25, 2011

May Ayob said:
Salaam to all

Bro just a guy can you explain further what exactly you are struggling with so that our brothers and sister here can help you more

How much time do you have?

To make it short, my main issues with Christianity are Jesus and the Trinity. My main issues with Islam so far (I am still finding out about Islam) are dogs and alcohol. I've seen some sites that say that owning dogs in Islam is haraam, and others say that it is permissible. So I'm not real clear on that. Same with alcohol. Some sites I've read say it is totally off limits and others just say not to pray while under the influence.

I do not want to get into a moral or philosophical debate about why I disagree with those things. I do not feel that this is the time or place for that. But there it is.

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

May Ayob said:
Salaam to all

Brother , i dont understand if you are an atheist as you have slected why are you trying to refute for what she has said

I am not so much refuting what she said as offering an objective view. If you are muslim, or if you are Christian, you are biased regarding any comparison or criticism between them. As neither I may have a view obscured from both (which has nothing to do with my atheism, a hindu or buddhist etc would also be an outsider).

No one but God has the right to judge who is following the correct path or not. What they did was a disgusting crime , and nothing justifies it.

The second statement above directly contradicts the first.

Secondly how can worshipping Jesus and his mother not be ascociating other partners with God.?

Regarding Jesus himself, via the trinity. They believe that Jesus IS God. Regarding Mary, you have a point, it would be associating partners with God.

It is wether, you agree or not , No one but God should be worshipped, God and God alone.

That is your belief and religion. Others may disagree.

3rdly what do you mean why is this rleveant, is eating , drinking , and human needs are attribution that you would belive God posses , Exalted is he.

If Jesus was a human manifestation of God then it makes sense that he would eat and drink, etc.

I quite question your atheism , ive had a teacher who was just like you in points of view , he used to claim that he was an atheist and he did his best to evangelise people in school , and what do you know he turned out to be a priest in our country's Church of Christ.

I assure you that I am not a believer in Gods. I also assure you that I am not a believer in ghosts. Why would you believe the latter but not the former?

Atheists encounter this kind of accusation pretty frequently. I have even heard some religious folks claiming that atheists do not exist, period. I think this is more telling of theists than atheists.

My theory is that a lot of believers need to believe that atheists do not exist or that we are all pretending or denying belief that exists (due to a desire to engage in what is forbidden perhaps). I think a lot of theists need to hold this misperception because to admit to themselves that others do not believe what they do, or worse yet ceased to believe what they do, threatens to undercut their own faith and cause them to examine and question their own belief.

Ğħαrєєвαħ · May 25, 2011

Greetings of peace Pygoscelis

Pygoscelis said:
Islam was also founded by a human. It does not matter if the word Christian or Muslim appear in a text, because of point number two.

Firstly, please could you post your evidence that Islaam was founded by a human and then explain to me was that 'human' worthy of claiming what he claimed? As in the chapters and verses of the Qur'aan were from his ownself? Before attempting to make such a claim i hope you have read the Qur'aan and the Ahadeeth all in full text, the translation, the explanation of each chapter verse, why they were revealed, when they were revealed, do you have the knowledge of this? If not then i dont think you have the right to attempt to make such a claim.

Pygoscelis said:
The Quran is not written by God either. Just like the bible it is a book written by a human hand. Both claim to be inspired or dictated by God. Both require faith to believe that. That one is a single book and one is a collection of books, assembled through the guidance of divine spirit a christian would claim, makes little difference

Nor does the Quraan deny the original versions of Bible and many other books, yet it confirms what has been changed within those books! Again please, are you some sort of scholar?

Pygoscelis said:
A Christian agrees that there is only one God. They just have the weird concept of the trinity to complicate things a little. And if you think the Christian trinity is hard to understand, try the Hindu religion

As far as it concerns me the trinity was never mentioned in the bible, but correct me if i am wrong..

The confusion arises when there are also 'some' christians who believe that Jesus was simply a prophet and nothing more, nor did he claim divinity nor did he claim of asking to be worshipped..

Pygoscelis said:
That is an interesting point I haven't seen made before. You're right, Adam didn't have a mother and neither did Eve. I'm not so sure that "not having a birth father makes him God" is a central Christian claim though. Doesn't it have more to do with being born of a virgin (and thus being pure)? And isn't even that a few steps short of being the core of the religion?

Well, Adam and Even having no parents proves that there is a God, they didnt just appear of nothing.. And as 'thiests' one believes God is powerful and able to do of what he wills.. the virgin birth was simply a proof of God's existence and also a miracle. Maybe this is something difficult for an 'Athiest' to understand, but what is true is true nothing happens for no reason, the reason was also created.if that makes sense :-\

I hope i have no offended you, my intentions were simply not too..

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм;1441804 said:
Firstly, please could you post your evidence that Islaam was founded by a human and then explain to me was that 'human' worthy of claiming what he claimed?

Of course I can not prove this with 100% certainty, but neither can the OP, which is what I was responding to. My statement was meant as a contrast to hers. Both have equal basis and both can be argued. Islam, to everybody but a muslim, came to be with Mohammed and the Quran. I do undersand that the muslim belief it that Islam (submission to God) actually goes all the way back to the origin of humanity but that is not the way non muslims will see it, just as the OP is seeing Christianity from a non-Christian viewpoint.

Well, Adam and Even having no parents proves that there is a God, they didnt just appear of nothing

If you believe the story then sure, and you don't even need the proof, becasue if you believe the story of Adam and Even then you already believe in the God involved. That has nothing to do with the point the OP was making though as far as I can tell.

the virgin birth was simply a proof of God's existence and also a miracle. Maybe this is something difficult for an 'Athiest' to understand

Actually virgin birth is a remote possibility and doesn't require the supernatural to explain it. It is exceedingly rare, but actually has been observed in a number of species and is possible (though extremely unlikely) to occur in humans. Check it out: http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/

I hope i have no offended you, my intentions were simply not too..

Not at all. I appreciate your posts.

Dagless · May 25, 2011

Just a Guy said:
A couple of these issues mentioned are things I am struggling with right now in my own faith of Christianity. I have to admit that I am not completely sold on Islam either yet. I guess at this point I am sort of a blend of Christian and Muslim, with maybe a little deism thrown in. There are things about both religions that I like and there are things about both that I dislike. I am not sure I will ever find the one faith I can completely agree on, but I will keep trying to find it.

Salaam...

You should look for the truth, whether you like or dislike with things shouldn't come into it. I'm sure plenty of Muslims dislike fasting or giving their money to the poor but if it is the truth then you should follow it regardless of personal taste. Pick and mix is just another way of fulfilling your own desires on things (which will no doubt change with time and then you'll end up picking and mixing again).

May Ayob · May 25, 2011

So , you think that killing people , that do not follow your , faith , philosophy and ideas is something normal?
As a humanbeing that was given a mind, heart and soul i think it is only natural to condemn the actions of the crusaders.
i do not see any contradiction because when i said was about religion and it doesnt make sense to me how you claim that my statements contradict. Yes it is only God who will judge you according to you deeds and intentions , and it is not acceptable to be killing people because they dont accept Christ as their savior- i think my point was pretty clear.

2ndly.Not every christian denomination belive that Christ is God that isn't true, i've met many and they say they belive in God the creator not Jesus the "son" it is only the evanagilicans that belive so which is stupid and absurd.

It is pretty clear to me even though you claim you are an athiest that you have some type of sympathy and inclanation towards christianity that's why you are very eager to comment on every statement.

since when does God need to incarinate Himself and despratley call people to belive in him, actually non of what you stated is in the Bible so it only proves my earlier point.All the trinity and God incarinate claims are not stated in the Bible which is supposed to be the original source i pay no attention to what the popes and priests say to me they have no significance at all.

Athiests are human beings just as anyone else no need to regard yourselves as some type of intellectually gifted people and seperate yourself from other people because we are all equal. and i honestly still question your atheism

Peace be to all.

Flame of Hope · May 25, 2011

Just a Guy said:
To make it short, my main issues with Christianity are Jesus and the Trinity. My main issues with Islam so far (I am still finding out about Islam) are dogs and alcohol. I've seen some sites that say that owning dogs in Islam is haraam, and others say that it is permissible. So I'm not real clear on that. Same with alcohol. Some sites I've read say it is totally off limits and others just say not to pray while under the influence.

Here are a few suggestions that you might find helpful:

1. No matter how much knowledge you might gain, there will always be things that will be complete mysteries to you.

2. Be more concerned about the main mysteries of life which are: the purpose of life, the reason why God created us, why we die and what happens after death.

3. Have a sense of priority and do not be misled by trivial things that you don't understand. Knowing why keeping dogs is haraam or why alcohol is forbidden shouldn't feature on top of your priority list.

It's a wicked whisper of Shaytan who is trying to steer you away from what is important and make you focus on something that is less important.

4. Once you have found answers to the main mysteries of life, then everything will fall into place......the pieces of the puzzle will come together and you'll begin to see your place in the grand scheme of things.

5. Lastly, solving the main mysteries of life is an easy affair if you have a genuine desire to know the truth because God Himself assists such a person. And whosoever God guides, who can misguide?

Hope this helps in some way.

May Ayob · May 25, 2011

Dagless said:
You should look for the truth, whether you like or dislike with things shouldn't come into it. I'm sure plenty of Muslims dislike fasting or giving their money to the poor but if it is the truth then you should follow it regardless of personal taste. Pick and mix is just another way of fulfilling your own desires on things (which will no doubt change with time and then you'll end up picking and mixing again).

Sorry Bro but that aint so true either, atleast not to me, you cant be amuslim and hate giving money to the people who are in need, because Islam basically tell us that the money is the boundary of our Lord and that just as He has given you wealth He almighty can also take it a away in a blink of an eye. Many muslims , are very compassionate and merciful people that give the money that God has given them out of true sympathy and love. God is not in need of us giving money to anyone , but He doesnt want us to be greedy people and He wants to teach us to be helpfull and mercifull to one another and establish a true brotherhood.

As for the Fasting infact fasting is a wonderfull thing because it teaches you to be stronger, to have a sense of charcter and many muslims enjoy fasting or else they wouldnt have fasted in other days such as Monday and Thursday.

I hope i didnt offend you i just didnt agree with that and i also hope you respect my point of view.

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

May Ayob said:
Yes it is only God who will judge you according to you deeds and intentions , and it is not acceptable to be killing people because they dont accept Christ as their savior- i think my point was pretty clear.

It is not just God that judges people. We all do. I judge. You judge. If somebody kills people for not believing in Christ, they are a terrible person and I judge them as such. This is a judgment. Saying that their actions are deplorable and can have no basis is also a judgment.

It is pretty clear to me even though you claim you are an athiest that you have some type of sympathy and inclanation towards christianity

Can I quote this? This is seriously the first time I have ever been accused of sympathy for Christianity. I am in reality probably the most anti-Christian person you are likely to meet on this board. That doesn't prevent me from seeing a one sided and faith coloured critique of it though, so I offered an objective perspective.

since when does God need to incarinate Himself and despratley call people to belive in him, actually non o[f what you stated is in the Bible so it only proves my earlier point.All the trinity and God incarinate claims are not stated in the Bible which is supposed to be the original source i pay no attention to what the popes and priests say to me they have no significance at all.

A religion is more than the holy book. A religion is what the believer believes and how they practice that belief. This can include everything from holy books to less authoritative hadeeth to sermons to personal prayer to whatever - whatever the believer accepts as true.

Athiests are human beings just as anyone else no need to regard yourselves as some type of intellectually gifted people and seperate yourself from other people because we are all equal.

This accusatoin is baseless. I have done no such thing.

and i honestly still question your atheism

And I have presented my theory why you do that.

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

May Ayob said:
Yes it is only God who will judge you according to you deeds and intentions , and it is not acceptable to be killing people because they dont accept Christ as their savior- i think my point was pretty clear.

It is not just God that judges people. We all do. I judge. You judge. If somebody kills people for not believing in Christ, they are a terrible person and I judge them as such. This is a judgment. Saying that their actions are deplorable and can have no basis is also a judgment.

It is pretty clear to me even though you claim you are an athiest that you have some type of sympathy and inclanation towards christianity

Can I quote this? This is seriously the first time I have ever been accused of sympathy for Christianity. I am in reality probably the most anti-Christian person you are likely to meet on this board. That doesn't prevent me from seeing a one sided and faith coloured critique of it though, so I offered an objective perspective.

since when does God need to incarinate Himself and despratley call people to belive in him, actually non o[f what you stated is in the Bible so it only proves my earlier point.All the trinity and God incarinate claims are not stated in the Bible which is supposed to be the original source i pay no attention to what the popes and priests say to me they have no significance at all.

A religion is more than the holy book. A religion is what the believer believes and how they practice that belief. This can include everything from holy books to less authoritative hadeeth to sermons to personal prayer to whatever - whatever the believer accepts as true.

Athiests are human beings just as anyone else no need to regard yourselves as some type of intellectually gifted people and seperate yourself from other people because we are all equal.

This accusatoin is baseless. I have done no such thing.

and i honestly still question your atheism

And I have presented my theory why you do that.

al yunan · May 25, 2011

Pygoscelis said:
Atheists encounter this kind of accusation pretty frequently. I have even heard some religious folks claiming that atheists do not exist, period. I think this is more telling of theists than atheists. My theory is that a lot of believers need to believe that atheists do not exist or that we are all pretending or denying belief that exists (due to a desire to engage in what is forbidden perhaps). I think a lot of theists need to hold this misperception because to admit to themselves that others do not believe what they do, or worse yet ceased to believe what they do, threatens to undercut their own faith and cause them to examine and question their own belief

Salam dear brother P,

You have been around Muslims long enough already I see you have 2,494 posts still I don't think you quite get our beliefs and especially our idea of Atheism.
You see atheism plays an important part in Islam as it is part of our Shahada "there is no god (deity)..........." an absolute negation is required for the affirmation to be validated "there is Allah"
That would mean that any Muslim who does not comprehend Atheism is quite likely to commit the gravest of sins the sin of association known as Shirk.
With the above in mind Inshallah one day you will make an excellent Muslim.

By the way Atheist literally means one with no God (unprotected / not belonging) and not one who does not believe in God as that would be an Agnostic as both are Greek (I'm Greek) words and regardless of how they are used or might mean in English that's their true meaning. Freudian slip ?

Masalam

Pygoscelis · May 25, 2011

al yunan said:
By the way Atheist literally means one with no God (unprotected / not belonging) and not one who does not believe in God as that would be an Agnostic as both are Greek (I'm Greek) words and regardless of how they are used or might mean in English that's their true meaning. Freudian slip ?

Atheist would literally mean one who is not theist. Agnostic would literally mean one without knowledge. But I don't think there has been any miscommunication above. I think we all know what each other have been talking about. We have a person who is claiming I do not actually not believe in God. And I have presented a theory as to why they feel a need to think or profess that.

Ğħαrєєвαħ · May 26, 2011

Greetings of peace to you

Pygoscelis said:
Of course I can not prove this with 100% certainty, but neither can the OP, which is what I was responding to. My statement was meant as a contrast to hers. Both have equal basis and both can be argued. Islam, to everybody but a muslim, came to be with Mohammed and the Quran. I do undersand that the muslim belief it that Islam (submission to God) actually goes all the way back to the origin of humanity but that is not the way non muslims will see it, just as the OP is seeing Christianity from a non-Christian viewpoint.

The OP was clearly pointing out what was the facts in regards to the bible. As far as i understand it seems you are saying that whether it be Christian or the Muslim faith, they both disagree with one another so they feel they are both better than each other by simply stating what someone 'sees' from the other faith..But the way i see it is that one book is comfirming something that another said, basically speaking the truth, what more is there needed?

Pygoscelis said:
If you believe the story then sure, and you don't even need the proof, becasue if you believe the story of Adam and Even then you already believe in the God involved. That has nothing to do with the point the OP was making though as far as I can tell.

Be aware that one who follows something without knowing why is classed as following blindly but not in all cases. It seems we should stop assuming things by saying we/others dont need proof. Yes, sometimes we truly believe that there is no proof needed because of the level of faith one has, this is good as the faith is strong, but sometimes it cannot as it may be someone following blindly and preventing one from obtaining the truth, though it just shows how sincere that person is in reality.

This is what the OP posted

JESUS in BIBLE:
1. He is not God - if he is God becoz he dont have a father, the right goes more to Adam & Eve whom were created from nothing

What point did i miss?

Pygoscelis said:
Actually virgin birth is a remote possibility and doesn't require the supernatural to explain it. It is exceedingly rare, but actually has been observed in a number of species and is possible (though extremely unlikely) to occur in humans. Check it out: http://www.slate.com/id/2179865/

Actually i think you didnt read my post..

Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм ;1441804 said:
And as 'thiests' one believes God is powerful and able to do of what he wills

Also the article doesnt suprise me, it may however be true or not i do not know, it doesnt change the fact that the birth of Jesus (pbuh) being a miracle ,i remember reading once there was also a seven year who gave birth to his brother :\ it may well be some sort of disorder i do not know..I will leave this to someone knowledgeable to reply, though it does make it clear when he (God) says he is able to do all things after Maryam (as) says she is a virgin, and how she can have a child etc.. The fact is that he is able to do all things that suit his majesty.

And the word 'Exceedingly rare' shocks me.:\

Along with the miracle of Virgin Birth there were many more miracles of Jesus (pbuh)..

In Surah Al Emraan

"She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is. " [Al Qur'aan 3-47]

And Surah Maryam

"She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?, He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah)." [Al Qur'an 19:20-21]

These verses are clear as they show that Allaah is able to do all things, it is not difficult for him..

If i have not made it clear to you, or there is something i lack i hope that someone else will help insha'Allaah

I have a question for you out of curiousity, im not sure if you believe in God since it states 'Athiest' in your profile, what are you thoughts about God?

Pygoscelis said:
Not at all. I appreciate your posts.

No worries..

al yunan · May 26, 2011

Pygoscelis said:
We have a person who is claiming I do not actually not believe in God. And I have presented a theory as to why they feel a need to think or profess that.

Is it not Ironic that we live in an age that one has to defend one's disbelief and that is thought as normal.

List why I was not satisfied with my Ex religion

La ilaha illa Allah

Account Disabled

IB Veteran

IB Veteran

IB Expert

IB Veteran

IB Expert

Account Disabled

Slave of Allaah

Account Disabled

Getting a Wimpy...

IB Veteran

IB Expert

IB Veteran

Account Disabled

Account Disabled

Account Disabled

Account Disabled

Slave of Allaah

Account Disabled

Similar Threads