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    Greatest Objections to Christianity?

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    What is/are your greatest objection(s) to Christianity and why?

    What school or branch of Islam do you consider yourself a part of?

    For the first question, relatively detailed responses are preferable to one-sentence replies.

    Thank you for your time.

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by randomcitizen1 View Post
    What is/are your greatest objection(s) to Christianity and why?

    What school or branch of Islam do you consider yourself a part of?

    For the first question, relatively detailed responses are preferable to one-sentence replies.

    Thank you for your time.
    Trinity...Because it is false...(Hope that is short enough...)

    Sunni Hanafi
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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    It shows clear signs of being a man-made, artificial, simple ancient people mentality religion, if you actually look at the texts.

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by randomcitizen1 View Post
    What is/are your greatest objection(s) to Christianity and why?

    What school or branch of Islam do you consider yourself a part of?

    For the first question, relatively detailed responses are preferable to one-sentence replies.

    Thank you for your time.
    Dear RandomCitizen1,

    It would be impossible to get a full comprehensive answer on our (The average IB user) refutations regarding your faith. A user might cut and paste articles or even attempt to refute it but I do assure you that the refutation would be a summary.

    If you are looking for a academic discussion on the matter then:

    For the full comprehensive refutation a South African scholar in the late 70s early 80's Ahmed Deedat has written many books and there are many videos regarding this matter. www.ipci.co.za. A later authority on the issue would be Zakir Naik but in my opinion Ahmed Deedat would be more interesting as Ahmed Deedat has himself studied at a formal Institution of teaching Christianity in Durban. Mr Naik himself did not study under any Christian Authority at all. (I stand to be corrected on that though)

    If on the other hand you are looking at the average layman muslims point of view then we don't believe in Christianity based on the fact that we accept The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) as the last and final of all Prophets. In turn we have the Quran which gives us a different version of Jesus (PBUH).

    If you want to entangle the average Muslim into this discussion - our most simplified answer is We believe in what the Quran tells us.

    If you want more intricate answers in Comparative Religion then I have given you two scholars of Authority.

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    If it's polemics you want...










    ...I've got plenty more where these came from, and to add to the videos I haven't yet shared in this post (which I may add once I've seen your response) season two is being planned for early next year in sh'Allah.

    Don't forget to read the comments on the videos

    Peace
    Greatest Objections to Christianity?


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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernova View Post

    If you are looking for a academic discussion on the matter then:
    For the full comprehensive refutation a South African scholar in the late 70s early 80's Ahmed Deedat has written many books and there are many videos regarding this matter. www.ipci.co.za. A later authority on the issue would be Zakir Naik but in my opinion Ahmed Deedat would be more interesting as Ahmed Deedat has himself studied at a formal Institution of teaching Christianity in Durban. Mr Naik himself did not study under any Christian Authority at all. (I stand to be corrected on that though)
    Do you believe that Ahmed Deedat to be an authoritative source for the critique of Christianity? Zakir Naik? ThX :-)

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    Do you believe that Ahmed Deedat to be an authoritative source for the critique of Christianity? Zakir Naik? ThX :-)
    I certainly do not!!! He was good for his time, and some of his points still remain standing - however - apologists have since then, made a pigs ear of the subsequent bible(s) and their revisionist versions which have conflated certain narratives over other ones.

    Which is why Paul Williams, is in my opinion, a breath of fresh air and concurrent in his up-to-the-minute historical breakdown of the Bible(s) and their historicity, theology and polemics.

    Of course, there are many others, take for example - Darren Myatt aka Hamza:



    Peace
    Greatest Objections to Christianity?


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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    He was good for his time, and some of his points still remain standing...
    Which means that many of his points were/are refuted. Much the same as his protege Zakir Naik...

    Which is why Paul Williams, is in my opinion, a breath of fresh air and concurrent in his up-to-the-minute historical breakdown of the Bible(s) and their historicity, theology and polemics.
    Please explain why he is a "breath of fresh air"...

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Thank your for your replies. I appreciate you all taking the time to respond here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Dear RandomCitizen1,

    It would be impossible to get a full comprehensive answer on our (The average IB user) refutations regarding your faith. A user might cut and paste articles or even attempt to refute it but I do assure you that the refutation would be a summary.

    If you are looking for a academic discussion on the matter then:

    For the full comprehensive refutation a South African scholar in the late 70s early 80's Ahmed Deedat has written many books and there are many videos regarding this matter. www.ipci.co.za. A later authority on the issue would be Zakir Naik but in my opinion Ahmed Deedat would be more interesting as Ahmed Deedat has himself studied at a formal Institution of teaching Christianity in Durban. Mr Naik himself did not study under any Christian Authority at all. (I stand to be corrected on that though)

    If on the other hand you are looking at the average layman muslims point of view then we don't believe in Christianity based on the fact that we accept The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) as the last and final of all Prophets. In turn we have the Quran which gives us a different version of Jesus (PBUH).

    If you want to entangle the average Muslim into this discussion - our most simplified answer is We believe in what the Quran tells us.

    If you want more intricate answers in Comparative Religion then I have given you two scholars of Authority.
    I am primarily looking for personal answers from "the average Muslim" as you put it. Of course, backing up one's response with sources is always welcome. Regardless, thank you for your well-thought-out reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    It shows clear signs of being a man-made, artificial, simple ancient people mentality religion, if you actually look at the texts.
    Would you mind elaborating a bit? Examples would be helpful. Thank you. :)

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    Which means that many of his points were/are refuted. Much the same as his protege Zakir Naik...
    I've yet to see these so called refutations stick - they're like water off a duck's back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    Please explain why he is a "breath of fresh air"...
    When a Christian theologian does his masters in theology and realizes that Christianity is a punk scam parading as a religion, things start to get really interesting - that's why!!!

    Christianity is European Hinduism! With lesser gods, but essentially still parading the same theological hurdles which are self contradictory and require huuuge dogmatic investment!

    Which is why Paul Williams chose Islam, after researching it... and I'll be filming a second series to the Paul Williams show next year in sh'Allah.

    I'd like to know why you think Christianity is theologically sound and not self contradictory - and I'd like to see if you can do this without making appeals to emotion

    peace
    Greatest Objections to Christianity?


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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Welcome to the forum randomcitizen1,

    What is/are your greatest objection(s) to Christianity and why?
    These aren't objections as such, but more the problems with Christianity:

    "Christianity" as we know it today, should actually be called "Paulism", because more of it is to do with the teachings of Paul than with the teachings of Christ (peace be upon him).

    There is a gospel according to Matthew, gospel of Mark, gospel of John, gospel of Luke, but no gospel of Jesus (peace be upon him).

    If God tells us He is One, but we can't talk about One without mentioning the number three, then clearly something is wrong.

    If all of mankind is eternally ****ed for something they didn't do at the beginning of the world, then something is clearly wrong.

    If God can't forgive, but has to beget a son and have him killed in a torturous death to forgive mankind, then clearly something is wrong.

    In Islam, we have no such problems. The way of life called Islam is not named after a person or place, but is a state of being that anyone can enter into, namely submission to God.

    The scripture is fully preserved, no versions or editions, and is 100% the word of God.

    God is One, in every sense of the word. No persons, partners or sons.

    We believe that God forgave Adam (peace be on him) for eating from the tree, and that that was a lesson to us that should we err, and sincerely repent and seek forgiveness, God is Forgiving and Merciful.

    Peace.
    2 | Likes air, popsthebuilder liked this post
    Greatest Objections to Christianity?


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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    When a Christian theologian does his masters in theology and realizes that Christianity is a punk scam parading as a religion, things start to get really interesting - that's why!!!
    I understand you desire to want him to be "right" about Christianity. I could just as equally cite Muslims who convert away from Islam... and now are Christian apologists.

    Which is why Paul Williams chose Islam, after researching it... and I'll be filming a second series to the Paul Williams show next year in sh'Allah.
    Maybe I am missing some sort of recent news but... um... are you aware of this?
    Paul Williams leaves Islam.JPG

    I'd like to know why you think Christianity is theologically sound and not self contradictory - and I'd like to see if you can do this without making appeals to emotion
    What I want to know is why Muslims place their faith in a book that is a single sourced internally contradictory, historically inaccurate, scientifically wrong (I am a science teacher BTW), and "recited" by someone as morally questionable (and that is being polite as I know what I am writing this) as Muhammad???

    I appreciate this board. I have looked for years to find something to engage in honest discussions with Muslims - but have been banned from all of them as I am critical of their prophet and beliefs... all the while I am just trying to understand the root reasons for their faith in Muhammad...

    Looking forward to your response...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    "Christianity" as we know it today, should actually be called "Paulism", because more of it is to do with the teachings of Paul than with the teachings of Christ (peace be upon him).
    IF I were to go through the Gospels of Matthew, Mark (which is what Peter recorded, and John... and even James... Revelation... 1st and 2nd PEter... 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John... using only verse from those books... would you want to debate what Christ taught?
    We both know you won't... because all of those books affirm facts that contradict what is in the Quran.

    There is a gospel according to Matthew, gospel of Mark, gospel of John, gospel of Luke, but no gospel of Jesus (peace be upon him).
    You obviously don't know what the word "gospel" means...

    If God tells us He is One, but we can't talk about One without mentioning the number three, then clearly something is wrong.
    Do you know what the Shema actually means in Hebrew?

    If God can't forgive, but has to beget a son and have him killed in a torturous death to forgive mankind, then clearly something is wrong.
    Do you understand the consequences of sin? The consequence of sin is death --- in hell --- God just simply can't forgive a sin without a payment just as a "just" judge cannot let a murderer free for not killing everyone else in the world... there has to be a payment for those sins...

    We believe that God forgave Adam (peace be on him) for eating from the tree, and that that was a lesson to us that should we err, and sincerely repent and seek forgiveness, God is Forgiving and Merciful
    God forgave Adam??? Really??? Then why didn't Adam, according to the Quran stay in heaven with God? Adam and Eve, according to the Quran 2:36...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by randomcitizen1 View Post
    Would you mind elaborating a bit? Examples would be helpful. Thank you.
    Am thinking the name Paul will be mentioned several times.. and the Council of Nicaea will be described as the body of people who deified Christ.... maybe I'm wrong... but have been debating this issue for years now and know the standard responses...

    - - - Updated - - -

    This video describes the major problems we find with the charge from Muslims that claim the Bible is corrupted:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Am looking forward to the replies

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    I understand you desire to want him to be "right" about Christianity.
    You're mistaken, I don't make appeals to emotion, I leave that to the Christians lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    I could just as equally cite Muslims who convert away from Islam... and now are Christian apologists.
    please do, but first go to loonwatch and see if they ever were Muslims in the first place besides, i thought this thread was about Objections to Christianity??


    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    Maybe I am missing some sort of recent news but... um... are you aware of this?
    Paul Williams leaves Islam.JPG
    More than aware lol, what you are unaware of though, is that Paul Williams came back to Islam, and is a friend of mine the Paul Williams show was shot this summer, and I will be shooting a second series with him early next year in sh'Allah. He's definitely a Muslim!! And I'll be at the park later today filming him asking so called Christian experts on Islam, about the articles of faith in order to show how badly these evangelical types have it wrong!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    What I want to know is why Muslims place their faith in a book that is a single sourced internally contradictory, historically inaccurate, scientifically wrong (I am a science teacher BTW), and "recited" by someone as morally questionable (and that is being polite as I know what I am writing this) as Muhammad???
    Wait, this thread is titled "objections to Christianity" - not Islam lol... stay on topic bruv!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    I appreciate this board. I have looked for years to find something to engage in honest discussions with Muslims - but have been banned from all of them as I am critical of their prophet and beliefs... all the while I am just trying to understand the root reasons for their faith in Muhammad...

    Looking forward to your response...
    I have no idea why you made the edits so I have not responded to those. If there is something about Christianity that makes you feel uncomfortable, then please do share and maybe we can help God willing... As for honest discussions with Muslims - hey I'm all entertaining this idea with you in all honesty - but you have to remain honest yourself and not make this thread about something other than objections to Christianity otherwise, this thread fails to stay on topic, savvy?

    peace
    Greatest Objections to Christianity?


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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    Do you believe that Ahmed Deedat to be an authoritative source for the critique of Christianity? Zakir Naik? ThX :-)
    I used the word "interesting".
    For me to know who is more authoritative between both of them means that I myself would have to be authoritative on the subject to judge between the two. As I am not an authority on the subject - it will mean I do not know who is more authoritative.

    As I have stated that Ahmed Deedat had studied the Christian faith in doctrine under Christian Scholars. This is one of the reasons that in all his world wide live debates - never did any Christian Scholar question or levy this against him. So Academically he would be more likely to be sound. Having said that - it doesn't mean that a lack of studying under an institution will nullify anything else that any other scholars have to put forward.

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيم

    Why God in Christian concept had to became human in order to pay sinners, why not the sinners who pay for their own sin, I don't like that concept, I don't like someone who do cruel thing to me, will be forgiven by the death of someone else. Actually I have a lot objections.

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post
    What I want to know is why Christians place their faith in a book that is a single sourced internally contradictory, historically inaccurate, scientifically wrong
    Fixed that for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post
    Allah did not create us to worship us .

    Let us say, He decided to create us at point T1 in time. Now since time has no beginning and God was always present, hence time T1 or any other time T2, T3 etc are equidistant from origin of time which is infinity away. So if He can change his mood at time T1, there is no reason why He cannot change His mood at other time-points like T2, T3 etc. Also, there is no guarantee that He did not create and destroy us or other species at other times BEFORE time T1 of this creation.

    Now all abrahmic faiths claim that Allah created us so that we could worship Him also believe that Allah is perfect. Now if Allah is perfect, it means that at ALL points in time, He is equally perfect and operates as per the SAME laws. Perfection implies that there can be NO single-point inconsistency in God’ habits.

    THUS, if Allah created us at time T1, He HAS to keep creating us at other time periods also IF He is perfect. Now He cannot create us twice! So if He creates us, He has to also destroy us so as to create us again.

    Now if he continues to create and destroy us, how can He ensure that we worship Him when we have been destroyed. This means that either mood of Allah fluctuates with time, OR, He has NOT created us for worship.
    Class exercise: Spot the unsubstantiated premises.
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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    More than aware lol, what you are unaware of though, is that Paul Williams came back to Islam, and is a friend of mine the Paul Williams show was shot this summer, and I will be shooting a second series with him early next year in sh'Allah. He's definitely a Muslim!! And I'll be at the park later today filming him asking so called Christian experts on Islam, about the articles of faith in order to show how badly these evangelical types have it wrong!!!
    I am truly ignorant of the teachings... etc... of this man. I just did a google search and this is what came up. But his history is confusing... He was a Christian... um... scholar - studying Christianity at the "graduate" level... which caused him to revert to Islam... and then... when having to actually practice Islam.. he can't take the "pain" more or less of having to fast... which causes him to leave Islam... making him an apostate... then... now you are telling me that he has returned to the straight path and all is good.
    This raises several questions --- but won't bother asking as you seem to want to move to questioning Christianity without defending Islam (this is the "comparative religions thread? Yes? So what kinda exemption is Islam afforded when comparing? - just asking)...
    1. If Islam was so hard then... why is it OK now?
    2. Where in the Sahria is this permissible?
    3. Where is he spared the wrath of your co-coreligionists? Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done."... and.... Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

    I am honestly looking forward to your replies!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    Did you want examples or are you simply throwing stones at glass houses?

    1. Christianity is not single sourced.
    2. The Quran is a single sourced document.
    3. It is historically inaccurate.
    4. The Quran is scientifically incorrect.
    5. The Quran is internally contradictory.
    Which one would you like me to start with?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by air View Post
    Why God in Christian concept had to became human in order to pay sinners....
    The penalty for sin is death... punishment in hell. Can you pay that price?

    No. That is the point!!! That is your answer. If you are going to pay that price then you are going to spend an eternity in hell.... God paid the penalty for you.... all you have to do is accept that payment through the death of Jesus Christ...

    why not the sinners who pay for their own sin,
    If sinners had to pay the price for their own sins then they would go to hell to pay that price... are you willing to do that?

    I don't like that concept,
    The concept of God loving you so much that He is willing to pay the penalty He demands? The alternative is????

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    Class exercise: Spot the unsubstantiated premises.
    We have not received any commands by Ishwara that we worship him. Just because you claim it , we are not gonna do it .

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekafir View Post

    1. Christianity is not single sourced.
    2. The Quran is a single sourced document.
    3. It is historically inaccurate.
    4. The Quran is scientifically incorrect.
    5. The Quran is internally contradictory.
    Which one would you like me to start with?

    - - - Updated - - -


    The penalty for sin is death... punishment in hell. Can you pay that price?

    No. That is the point!!! That is your answer. If you are going to pay that price then you are going to spend an eternity in hell.... God paid the penalty for you.... all you have to do is accept that payment through the death of Jesus Christ...


    If sinners had to pay the price for their own sins then they would go to hell to pay that price... are you willing to do that?


    The concept of God loving you so much that He is willing to pay the penalty He demands? The alternative is????
    So do you mean it's ok to be a sinner, since God already paid my sin? what about if by chance I encounter with some schene like a man rape a woman, should I let him doing it, since there's no consequences for the man or for me if we accept the death of Jesus Christ? will God still loving me not helping the woman but enjoying the rape scene?

    For me, I can't accept this, especially if the woman is my relative, I wan't the rapper and the one who doing nothing while actually they can to be punished, well of course there's always consequences that I might be the one who in hell, I don't want to be in hell, so that's why I'll try my best to become a best Muslim as I can, and avoid to do a sin.

    Since you said that your concept of God is loving us so much, then why you hate and insult (from what I read from your posts) our prophet Muhammad PBUH so much? where's your hatred is come from?

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    Re: Greatest Objections to Christianity?

    the greatest objections for me is this:
    The trinity of God. God does not change entities. he does not need to.
    Jesus was not God's son other than we all are sons and daughters of God.
    Jesus was just a creation of God...like we all are.
    Jesus was born without a father. This does not mean that God was therefore his father...it only means that a miracle happened at that moment.
    Adam was created without a father and mother....so God must then be both mother and father of Adam?

    There is only one God...he was not created...He only created the earth and all living creatures.
    from the beginning of time when we humans lived on this Earth, we have been evolving...but we always had some connection with God.
    He send down prophets to guide us on the right path on a regularly basis. some of them meant for a specific group of people...some of them were globally prophets.
    How much prophets exactly have been sent down, nobody knows...might be thousands or hundreds of thousands.
    every time we wandered off the right path creating a new religion...he would send down another prophet to guide us back to the right path.

    one of these prophets was Jesus (pbuh). Jesus guided us back to the true religion.

    He did not die on the cross. in fact, he did not die at all. this is one of the points where christians are mistaken. They do not see the miracle that happened here.
    When Judas betrayed Jesus by pointing out Jesus' hiding place to the enemy, he went in to take Jesus out and at that moment a miracle took place:
    Jesus raised to heaven (without dying) and Judas' body changed to resemble Jesus.
    as a result, Judas was arrested and crusified.

    Jesus is still alive and waiting for his time to come back to Earth and fight against Dajjal...(the antichrist as you call)
    after winning even Jesus will die like all living creatures.

    by accepting Jesus as a God, people wandered off the right path again, creating a new religion called Christianity.
    That is when Muhammed (pbuh) was sent down to straighten that mistake. This is the last prophet ever who is sent down for us.
    Muhammad (pbuh) is the seal of prophets. there will be no other prophets being sent down after him....except of course for Jesus who will fight Dajjal.

    the true religion is like this:
    - God (there is only one... no other creature is like him)
    - Prophets. human beings in direct control of God. they are the only humans who are totally sin-free because they are in direct control of God.
    Of course some of them made some minor "mistakes". but those mistakes have been rectified right away.
    - Humans.

    a message of God will be brought down by angel Gabriel (as) to the prophets, and the prophets dictate it exactly like that to us humans. There cannot be an error in this path, so the dictations are 100% accurate.
    We call these messages, the holy books. Quran and Thorah are one of them.
    Then we have people who have known the prophet personall, or who have witnessed him doing, acting saying something in a certain way...so they reported this.
    these reports are called hadeeth. Hadeeth can be categorized differently in how strong they are...and not all of them are evenly accurate.

    The problem with christianity is that if you claim that Jesus is in fact God, a shift takes place because you automatically say that all people who have been in direct contact with Jesus are prophets. everything these so called "prophets" have been recording about what Jesus have said and done is then automatically a direct message of God and therefore a part of the Bible. Christianity has no hadeeth because the knows hadeeth have suddenly become a part of the holy book.

    This is why the Bible has a lot of contradictions in it. What you are reading is not the true message of God. it is actually only hadeeths of Jesus which are partially correct.

    another reasons for the contradictions in the Bible are modifications to it and of course the translation.
    We know there are different versions of the Bible.
    We know there are different translations of the Bible.
    Even if you compare two different languages of the king James version of the Bible, you will run into a loss or change of information.
    words do not have the same load in different languages.
    Therefore a Holy book should always remail in its original language. You are allowed to translate it, but then, it will be a normal book and not a holy book anymore.

    That is why the Quran is always in Arabic.
    there is only one version of it...and in only one language.

    These are my greatest objections against Christianity.
    I am a sunni Hanafi Muslim.

    If something is not clear enough, please ask and I will try to explain.

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