Assalam alaykom
ASSALAM ALAYKOM
Why were we Created?
Allah says in the Qur'an: "The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not." All praise is due to Allah. May His prayers and blessings be upon his Last Messenger and on all those who follow the path of righteousness until the Last Day.
Not just Muslims, but every single human being has to answer the most fundamental question at some point in his or her lifetime:
"Why was I created? Why am I here? What am I doing in this world? Why did God create me?"These questions are questions which each and everyone of us reflects on at some point during their life. We have some answers, which are given generally but usually these answers don't satisfy us - seeming somewhat simplistic. So, we still wonder: "Why me? Why here?" I know all of you (Muslims), are saying, "To worship Allah, khallas (finish). What more is there to say? Why do we need to have a big long talk on why we were created when we all know it is to worship Allah?!"
But wait. If this is presented to a non-Muslim, the next logical question would be, "Why does Allah want us to worship Him?" Then your stuck, which can only mean that in our own minds it is not really clear. Why did Allah create us to worship Him?
Addressing the question, "Why did Allah create us?", we have to understand how to deal with those people we live with (in the West). Those who don't consider there to be any purpose in man's creation, firmly believing that they are just a product of evolution and that the forces of nature. Just as we don't have apes, dogs or cows thinking about why they are here, then we also don't have to think about it either. Following from this belief being the basis of the philosophy of Western society (that man is without purpose), the whole issue of government, morality, etc. has no basis for them in Revelation. The product of this attitude is, of course, the corruption that we are living in.
When a Muslim addresses this topic, we have to find our understanding from Divine Revelation and not human speculation. Because human speculation has no bounds; we can imagine all kinds of things and if any of you has studied philosophy of religion, you will know how many opinions there are about the creation of man and existence. Because of the variety of philosophies which are out there, no one can say this one is correct or that one is incorrect, because there is no guidance behind it. No Divine Revelation. It is only from Divine Revelation that we can determine the reality of our creation, because it is Allah who has created us and so He knows the purpose of our creation. We can hardly understand it ourselves, much less trying to understand the essence of things. So it is for Allah to inform us through the revelation in the Qur'an and the sunnah (the Prophetic traditions) which were brought to us by His Last Messenger and the Messengers before him.
Now if we are to look initially into revelation, to determine why was man created, there is a deeper question that we should be asking before that: "Why did God create?" This before we even get to man because man is not the greatest act of creation. Allah says:
"The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not."Al-Qur'an 40:57Man is not the greatest act of creation, this universe is far more complex and far more magnificent than man. So the issue of creation should then go to, "Why did God create?", as opposed to simply, "Why create man?"
Fundamentally, we can say that the creation is the natural consequence of the attribute of creator. Allah is the creator. That is one of his attributes. That is what he has informed us. That being his attribute, the creator, the natural consequence or the product of this attribute is his creation.
A painter, if we are to draw a similitude on a lower level, who tells you that he is a painter, if you ask him where are his paintings and he replies I don't have any. What kind of painter is this? The concept of a painter who doesn't paint, there is some thing not quite gelling together here, of course Allah is beyond this. But if we are to understand on the simplest level, the two go together. The perfection of a painter lies in his paintings. His quality and his ability to paint, is manifest in his paintings. And Allah, beyond all that, as creator, this quality of creation is manifest in the creation itself. Allah didn't create out of a need. No, the fact that he is the creator, is manifest in the creation.
Furthermore, consider the act of creation, this act, with regards to Allah is unique. Though we use the term i.e. So and so created a table etc, actually it is in a limited sense. Human beings don't really create, they manipulate, because they can only "create" what already exists. When we make a chair or a table, we didn't create the wood, we had to take it from a tree, we didn't create the metal, which makes the screws etc, we had to melt down rocks and take the metal out. So we are not creating from nothing. We are manipulating things which Allah has already created in to different shapes and forms which are useful to us. We call it "creation" but the real act of creation, is creation from nothing, and this is unique to Allah alone.
This is a concept, which many people in ignorance, because they couldn't grasp the idea of creation from nothingness, it lead them to conclude that the world is Allah. Those who say "inside of each and every atom is Allah." And you have people, who call themselves Muslims saying this. Non-Muslims have said this before and there are Muslims who claim this. That Allah is inside each and everything, because Allah is the reality and everything else is fake in their interpretation. That means then, that the creation is Allah, and Allah is the creation. Very, very dangerous concept, which leads some of those who make this claim to say that you don't have to worship outside of yourself. Ibn Arabi, was famous for this statement, he is considered to be one of the saints, amongst the so called Sufi religion. Ibn Arabi said, "There is no need to worship one outside yourself, you are Allah. It is sufficient to worship yourself." This is shirk.
This concept of Allah being within his creation, no distinction the creation and Allah, it leads them to this shirk. Because they are unable to accept the uniqueness of Allah's creation, they compare the act of creation by Allah to human creation. That is, just as we manipulate, Allah took pieces of himself and made the earth and the universe. Others will say that all human beings have inside of themselves Allah, that there is a part of Allah inside each and everyone of us. The whole essence, the purpose of life is for us to realize that we have part of Allah inside of ourselves, remove the material blocks which keep us from Allah and again become one with Allah in what they call "fana". This is again a teaching of the Sufi religion.
Becoming one with Allah, returning back to Allah in this sense. But this is in fact part of the teachings of shirk. Shaytan (Satan) has deluded man into this imagination. It is part of the belief of the Hindus. Nirvana, the concept that when you die, you are reborn again, and you move up in stages, each time, if you are a good boy or good girl, you go up higher and higher, until you get to the top. You know you have reached the peak, because when you die the next time you become one with the universal soul, Nirvana. That is the end of rebirth. So your whole purpose is to return and become one with God again. This is all, as I said, a product of the inability to understand the concept of creation from nothingness, which is unique to Allah. Allah says:
"There is nothing like him, and he is the hearer and seer of all."So when we try to interpret Allah's creation like the way we create, then we have made Him like his creation and it leads us ultimately to those aspects of shirk which I have mentioned. This is quite common amongst the Muslim world today, because when you look into the various branches of the Sufi religion, where they have prescribed various acts of purification, they call it dhikr, exercises to torture the body through spinning and dancing. What is the purpose of this? They will tell you, to liberate the soul from this earthly body and to achieve that state of "fana" or "i'tihad", a variety of names they have for it.
It is this concept, which lead al-Hallaj, many centuries ago, when he was promoting this idea, and he was put before a panel of judges questioning these concepts, which he was expressing. When they asked him to recant, to take this stuff back, he stood up, opened up his cloak and said "There is nothing inside this cloak except Allah". So they executed him. And of course, those in the Sufi religion, they have stories that when they cut his head off, it rolled around saying "Allah, Allah, Allahu Akbar etc". It might have, that is Shaytan may have entered and said these things, as happened with the calf of the Isrealites, when the Prophet Musa (Moses) let Egypt and the people, after crossing the red sea, had a desire to have a god that they could see, so they made a golden calf which they began to worship. This calf was saying "moo" like the calves do. This is what convinced them that this was the real thing. We know it wasn't the calf saying this. The evil jinn can enter the in to physical entities, make sounds and give these impressions. So there is no problem for us to say ok, maybe when they cut of al-Hallaj's head that it said these things, because this was part of a test. If we are clear in terms of creator and creation, this is no problem for us.
Allah is the creator and everything besides Him is His creation, which He created from nothing. It is not Him, nor is He it. This is the pure concept as taught by the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam, his companions, and the early generations of righteous scholars, the students of the companions and those who came after them. The best of generations. That is how they understood this matter. There was no confusion in their minds. It wasn't until Islam spread to areas like Egypt, India and Persia, areas where the Christians had already gotten into deep philosophies, trying to explain how Jesus was a man and god at the same time. When they came in to Islam they brought it with them. This is the reality. It is not something we should necessarily condemn them for or feel is unusual. It is natural, when a person reverts to Islam, that they will carry with them what they believed before. What has been clarified for them, of the basic principles, they accept, and they reject things, which obviously contradict. But it doesn't mean that every last thought that they have, and everything that was wrong in their philosophies, ideology and concepts will be erased. They will carry these things in with them. This is why in the later part of the Prophet's sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam life, prior to his death, when he was coming back from one of the battles, his companions asked him to set aside a tree for them, that they could hang their weapons on, like the way the pagans would hang their weapons on trees, believing that when they hung the weapons, it became super-powerful, as if some power was coming from the tree, that their shields would now block steel and their swords would cut through the enemy. Some of the companions who had newly accepted Islam, asked the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam to designate one for them, a special one, an Islamic one. They understood that what the pagans had, this was wrong. These were the companions of the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam and he had to clarify it for them. He said:
"You are like the companions of Musa who asked to have the calf built."And he clarified for them that all of this is shirk and there is no place for it in Islam. So if it could happen to some of the companions, then we cannot blame the generations who have come after them, who come into Islam and carry with them some of their old ideas. What it is for us to do is to clarify.
So what we have in front of us then, is that Allah created this universe out of nothing, and everything that is in it was created. For example:
"Allah created all things, and he is the agent, upon which, all things depend."Al-Qur'an 39:62This is the reality. This is stressed for us, in order for us to realize that ultimately, all good, all evil, that takes place in the world, only takes place by the permission of Allah. Therefore we should not seek any other channels to protect ourselves from evil, or to gather for ourselves good, as people commonly do today. They will go to fortunetellers, this is big business today, all the magazines have various forms of fortunetellers like dial a horoscope etc. in a society that has lost touch with Allah, this is what is open to them. Allah has stressed for us that no calamity will befall us except by Allah's permission:
"Nothing is taking place in this world except by the permission of Allah."And the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam further emphasized this principle by saying:
"If the whole of mankind gathered to do some thing to help us, they could not help in anything which Allah had not already written for us. And if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm us, then they would not be able to harm with anything which Allah had not already written for us."Therefore what is required of us is to depend on Allah, put our trust in Allah. This is what we have to draw out of this attribute of Allah being the creator. This creation exists because of that attribute. Its practical significance to us lies in putting our trust in Allah.
There is another aspect, besides the fact that the creation exists because Allah is the creator. We can also see from what the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam has informed us, that in the creation there is manifestation of Allah's attributes of mercy, forgiveness, kindness etc etc. Allah created man in paradise, they disobeyed Allah, but Allah had taught them how to repent, how to turn back to him and seek his forgiveness, then he would forgive them. Having done that, they were forgiven, Adam became the first prophet, and mankind was absolved of that sin. The story of Adam and Eve is the story of human existence. Human beings are given a consciousness of Allah. When Allah created all human beings, as he states in the Qur'an, he took from Adam all of his descendents, and made them all bear witness that Allah is their Lord. So we are all born with that consciousness. He has also given us a consciousness of what is right and what is wrong.
"We have inspired each and every soul to an awareness of corruption and righteousness."Allah gave revelation through his commandments, not to eat of the tree. However, human beings forget. And when they forget Allah then they fall into sin. We can absolve ourselves of that sin by means of repentance, and Allah forgives us when we repent sincerely. The Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said:
"The one who repents is like the one without sin."So in our sinning and asking Allah's forgiveness, the attribute of Allah's mercy and forgiveness becomes manifest. Allah knew what we were going to do before he created us, he knew that he was creating a species who would sin. If he didn't wan t them to sin, if it was not his intention to permit them to sin, then he could have created angels, more angels. But the had already created angels, so he chose to create a being, that would disobey his commandments through forgetfulness or just simple disobedience, but would turn back to him in repentance, and his attribute of forgiveness would become manifest. Similarly, his mercy.
"If you did not commit sins and turn to Allah seeking his forgiveness, then he would replace you with another people who would sin, ask Allah's forgiveness and he would forgive them."
The Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam is quoted as saying that when Allah created the universe, He made an obligation on Himself, recorded in a document, kept by Him, that "My mercy precedes my wrath." He sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam also was reported as saying:
"Allah created mercy with a hundred parts. One of which was sent down upon the jinn and human beings and other living creatures. It is out of this one part that they love each other, show kindness to one another, and even the animals treat their offspring with affection. Allah has reserved the remaining ninety-nine parts for his true worshippers on the Day of Judgment."This is the mercy of Allah manifest in his creation. What is also manifest in creation, in the act of creation, the creation of man, is his attribute of justice, fairness, which comes out as the judgment at the end of this world. I am sure we have all read the ahadith in which the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said:
"Allah created some people for hell and some people for paradise."For a lot of people, this is something very heavy. And the companions, they asked the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam then what is the point in doing good deeds? If Allah created some for heaven and some for hell then what is the pin in doing anything? It has already been decided. The Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said:
"Each one of you will find it easy to do what he was created for."So if you choose the evil way, you find it easy and you carry on in that way, then that was what you were created for. But ultimately it is your choice. You choose hell. The fact hat Allah has recorded, before anything was created, who would be in hell and who would be in heaven does not change the fact that it is we who choose. The judgment is only to manifest to those who go to hell, that they deserve to be in hell. It is only for them basically. Because if Allah created you, and put you in paradise, with all that is in paradise, and you see those people in hell suffering, are you going to ask Allah, why did you put me in paradise? No, you're going to say "all praise be to Allah!", you don't want to question or to wonder, all you will be is ecstatic that you are of those in paradise. So the judgment is not for you, it is for those who are going to hell. If you happen to be amongst those who were created for and put in hell, you would say, why me? Why did you put me in hell? And Allah would say because you would have done so and so in your life. But you would say no, no I wouldn't. If you give me a chance I would do good deeds. You would not give up arguing.
So Allah has allowed us to live out our lives. So when we stand before him, our book of deeds is spread before us, we know without a shadow of a doubt, that we chose hell. That Allah's judgment is just. There is no injustice in it, in any way shape or form. Allah says he oppresses no one. We will know that we chose hell.
And the only thing that remains for us, and I pray that it is not in fact us, who are going to hell, is to beg Allah for another chance. Allah says:
"If you could only see when the sinners will bow their heads before their lord, saying; O Lord, we have now seen and heard, so send us back and we will do righteous deeds. Verily, we now believe with certainty."This is the only response, which will be left for them. Or as Allah said:
"And those whose light scales of good deeds, they ruined themselves and they will be in hell eternally. The fire will burn their faces, and they will grin with disfigured lips, I will say to them; Were My Verses not recited to you, and you rejected them? They will reply; Our Lord, our misery overcame us and we were a people astray. Our Lord, bring us out of this, and if we ever return we will truly be unjust."When we die, there remains behind us a barrier, the barzakh, none of us will come back, it is a one-way ticket. Those poor individuals who think they will get another chance, this is the new age religion, they think it is new, but it is just plain old Hindu delusion, that when you die, you get another chance to come back again. The effects of this actually, among Hindus, where I am in the UAE, there are a lot of Hindus here, everyday in the news paper you read about a Hindu man or woman who ties a rope to a ceiling fan, which is found in many of the homes, put it around their neck, kicked away the chair and passed out of this world. Suicide is common amongst them. Why? Because they think they have another chance. It will be a rude awakening for them when they meet the angel of death and find themselves in the next life, realizing that there is no coming back.
In the creation of man is manifest the grace of Allah. This is a particular point which all of us should reflect on and be thankful to Allah for. His grace, and Christians, they like to refer to us Muslims as those who don't believe in the grace of God, we are those who look at God's judgment and it is just about deeds, you do good then you go to heaven, you do bad and you go to hell, that is it, no grace there at all. For them the grace of God is there for all those who accept that he became a man, and was crucified by man, to provide salvation for human beings who's sins had become so great that they could not remove that sin through any act themselves. So it was with the spilling of the "Blood of God" that we could be absolved of our sins. For them, if you accept that God spilt his blood for mankind's salvation, then you have earned the grace of God. Does not matter what you do as long as you have accepted this belief in the grace of God.
Muslims also believe in the grace of God. Actually it plays a major and significant role. Often it is not stressed but it is important for us to realize how the grace of Allah is manifest in our creation. The Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Observe moderation, but if you fail, try to do as much as you can moderately and be happy. For none of you will enter Paradise only because of his deeds." Of course when the companions heard that they said, "O Messenger of Allah, not even you?" And the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Not even me. Were it not that Allah wrapped me in his mercy. And bear in mind that the deed most loved by Allah is one done constantly even if it is small."
What does this mean? It means that God's grace is manifest in our lives in that were He to call us to account, one good deed, one evil deed, equal to each other, then we would not enter paradise, not even the prophets of Allah. But Allah through his grace and mercy has multiplied the value of the good deeds. Allah says:
"Whoever brings a good deed, shall the value of ten like it. And whoever brings an evil deed will be punished with one like it. And they will not be wronged."Al-Qur'an 3:160This is Allah's grace. Good deeds erase evil deeds. One good deed will erase at least ten evil deeds. Allah's grace is not arbitrary, simply because you say I believe you have his grace, no matter what you do, no. The more good you do, the more of his grace is manifest in you. If you chose evil and reject the good, then you don't receive His grace, it doesn't matter what you say. If you say, I am a Muslim, I believe, but really you don't believe, it is just some words you are saying, them you will not be subject to the grace of Allah.
So the creation is a manifestation of Allah's attribute of being the creator. In the creation of man within the scheme of things, there is manifest Allah's attribute of mercy, his attribute of justice and this is the reason for the creation of man from the point of view of Allah. From human perspective, why did God create man in terms of for what purpose? Then this is the one we all know and are familiar with:
"We did not create the jinn and men except to worship us."Al-Qur'an 51:56So relative to Allah, we were created in a means or a way in which Allah has chosen to manifest his attributes of creation, mercy, grace etc and he could have chosen another one. But relative to us as human beings, we know that our purpose is to worship Allah. As we said, Allah does not need our worship, a Allah didn't need to create. When he created us to worship him, he didn't create us, out of a need for our worship, because Allah has no needs. In a famous hadith qudsi in which Allah says:
"If all of you, jinn and mankind, were to worship like the most righteous amongst you, it would not increase the dominion of Allah in any way shape or form. And if all of us, jinn and mankind ... "Therefore when we look for the purpose of worship, we have to look into man. Allah created us to worship him, because we need to worship him. It is something he has given us as a means of benefiting ourselves. We are the ones who benefit from it. Worship has been established, fundamentally for the growth, the spiritual growth of man. This growth takes place through the remembrance of Allah. When you look at all the different aspects of worship, you will see the core of it is focused on the remembrance of Allah.
"Establish the prayer for My remembrance."This is the essence for the consciousness of God. Allah says that he has:
" ... prescribed for us fasting, as he prescribed it for those before us, so that we may fear him."Worship is there for us to remember Allah. And it is in the remembrance of Allah, that we achieve that consciousness. Because it is when we forget Allah, that Shaytan causes us to disobey Allah and fall into sin. So it is only in His remembrance that we can attain salvation. All of the various acts of worship from saying "Bismillah" when we eat is to help us remember Allah in order to grow spiritually.
Allah has said that he has created us to test us, to see which of us is best in deeds. He is not testing us to know, in the sense that he doesn't already know, but this world is a test for us in order again that we can grow spiritually.
We cannot develop this spiritual characteristic of generosity unless some of us have more then others and then we are required to give of the wealth we have. When we give, we grow. Similarly, if we were not in a position where others had more then us then we wouldn't have the ability to develop the higher spiritual quality of contentment, patience, satisfaction in what Allah has given us.
So it is all there in order to bring out the higher spiritual qualities, which enable us to attain the state, which makes us suitable and eligible to return to paradise. The paradise from which we were created, we were created in paradise and for paradise. Through our choices we have left, in this life, a field of testing, where we can grow to a state where we deserve paradise.
The purpose of this life is the worship of Allah, this life is a test. A test for us, will we worship Allah, or will we forget Him. This is where our focus has to begin.
Assalam alaykom
Jazakh Allah Khair
Good read
Allaah bless you
Ameen
We were created to glorify God.
That's it.
Let's use some logic to answer this question. We truly don't know who created us. Was it evolution or was it god? Nobody knows actually, this is simply the truth based on the current scientific evidence we have. Is it possible that god created us? Absolutely!!! So who is god then and does he even exist?
The truth is that nobody knows if god exists or not. Believing that god exists is not proof that he exists. So is there a way to prove that god exists. There is actually, but we haven't been able to do it yet. If we can prove that we live in a simulation, we have proof that god exists! Let me elaborate more on this. If god is the creator of our world and the universe, then god must be so technologically advanced that he is able to create an entire universe. Who could do that? Since humans cannot do it currently, there may be an alien civilization that is so much more advanced than us that they have figured out how to manipulate the forces of the universe and have figured out how to create entire new worlds. They may have created a simulation of the universe in which we currently live. So the real question is, what is the likelihood of us living in base reality or a simulation? If we live in a simulation, is this the first simulation, the second, the 100th, the 1000th? There may be infinite amounts of simulations inside of other simulations. The most logical answer to who is god is that if god does exist, he is an alien. Also it is unlikely that he is a single person. God is most likely an alien civilization with technology so advanced that it is indistinguishable from magic.
You are so close to the truth, yet so far away from it.
Yeah...lets do that.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Yes we do actually.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Evolution or God? This question is already biased...thinking "evolution and God", "or science and God" are exclusionary.
The one or the other. Well its not. Even if we somehow proof that evolution is a cold hard fact...that still dont proof anything about God.
God may have used evolution as a mechanism to create life....so, evolution is then also a creation of God.
Its not that simple actually. Lets define "truth" and "science" first.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Science is a tool we humans developed to learn from each other and discover the universe we live in.
It is a tool to APPROACH the truth as much as we can, but we never obtain the absolute ultimate truth.
science get altered every day as we learn more and more...and therefore science and "the truth" as we know it, can be wrong from time to time.
Let me give you an example:
If you are in a train that is moving with V_train = 100km/h
and you stand up and walk towards the front of the train with V_person = 5km/h
Then we all learned in school that according to basic natural laws of physics the combined speed V_combined = V_train + V_person = 105km/h
This formula was discovered by Newton. It is tested over and over as accurate and therefore proven and known as the truth.
Then came Einstein and stated that if we make the moving things very small (particles like electrons or neutrons) and very fast (approaching light speed) then the formula doesnt apply anomore.
So it was the truth for us for a while and in normal way of life it is as accurate and truth as we need....but as we learn and develop, the truth becomes "not so accurate truth" or "truth only in some circumstances".
So the ultimate truth lies by God.
One other thing.
Science per definition is the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the PHYSICAL world.
so it cannot be used to prove metaphysical beings like angels and God.
But you have a way around it by using your logic and reason God gave us.
If you accept mathematical proof as a "scientific proof", and I hope you do, mathematical proof is a form of deductive proof for a mathematical statement.
(Something like if A is true, and B is ... Then the outcome has to be ...)
The cosmological argument, which also follows this system of deductive reasoning and logic, states that everything that exist, must have a cause, but you cannot have infinite steps of cause and existence so there must be a first "uncaused" existence. This existence should be without a beginning, hence "uncaused".
And it must have a will, because he or it "decided" to cause (at least) the first cause in the long chain of events.
And it must be 1. There is no reason to assume multiple first uncaused existences....that will make things more complicated and adds nothing extra to our argument.
And voila the first most important attributes for God.
Next step:
There is this book we do not know the origin from but people claim it is from God.
- No one claims to be the owner of it.
- same style all over...indicating that only one author, and not multiple.
- Highly poetic. The author of it must have had a high education in order to write such texts.
- Accurate. The are no contradictions in it. Nor scientifically disproven claims.
- The only person that originally came with it was illiterate so he cannot be the author of it.
So considering our deductive argument before that there must be a god, and now we discover this book with these characteristics...shouldn't we at least examine this book?
At least whether these claims are true or not?
and if they are, are we not obliged to say, "this book must be from God as it claimsto be"
As you see in the steps above, we do have enough logic and reason to have good reason to believe in God.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
We DO live in a simulation. I mean, you can call it a simulation. God clearly states that this is just a "test"- world, a temporary world, or as you put it a simulation world. It lasts until our death and we wake up in the real eternal world.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Godformat_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
There is no reason to bring multiple "aliens" into the equation, when you have just concluded that there must be 1 ultimate intelligent creator. This creator may be alien to you, but for us He is known.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
He did. He did create this simulation of a world to test us. He created all the good and evil in it, and gave us free will to choose wisely between good and evil.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
So you are in fact saying the exact same thing as we do, but you refuse to realize that.
God claims that we already existed before we came into this world, so at least there was a "realm" before this one, and there will be this realm after our death...and maybe many many more after that....no one knows.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
according what I just illustrated, i find it highly unlogical that God must be an alien let alone an alien civilization.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Because then you get stuck with a bunch of assumptions that go along with that such as:
Is this alien immortal?
where does this alien come from?
Does this alien have a creator?
Why did he create us?
Why doesnt he contact us?
...
These questions are already perfectly answered in the case of God.
The only issue I have with your argument is that it is based on a book with an unknown author. If you can prove me that the Quran was written by god then I will agree with what you said. However, nobody knows who wrote the Quran or the Bible. We don't know if a single person wrote it or multiple people. You may believe that the Quran was written by god, but believing in something doesn't make it true.
When I talk about who created us, I mean who created us humans directly, not indirectly. Consider the following scenario. Let's assume god was first and he created the first simulation and intelligent life. This life form advanced so much that they were able to create another intelligent life in a simulation. In that simulation, the intelligent life also advanced a lot and created another simulation with intelligent life which is us humans. We are the 3rd simulation. While god was the ultimate creator, he only created us indirectly. The intelligent life form in the second simulation was our direct creator.
Here is a plausible scenario without simulation. We have advanced to the point where we can clone or create animals. What if another intelligent life form has advanced much more than us and is able to create intelligent life. They could have created us and put us on Earth. This means that they would be our god and they still live in this universe.
Now let's examine the word "alien". By definition alien means "a life form outside of Earth". If god created the universe and therefore Earth, by definition god is alien.
nobody claims the Quraan was written by God. God Himself claims it is His own literal divine words. So why are you asking me for proof?format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
You cannot compare the Bible with the Quraan. The Bible has multiple different Authors, which is certain. We just do not know their identity. That is a whole different situation.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
In case of the Quraan, I do not think you see the whole picture yet.
So let me illustrate it more clearly for you then:
There was this shepherd out in the Arabian desert. He was known widely in the area as trustworthy, reliable, honousty and kindness. He was respected by everyone. People used to come to him if they had a dispute with one and other...etc.
This person anounces one day that he was Gods prophet sas and suddenly gains enemies because that goes against their own pagan religions.
You should understand that the Prophet sas had no personal gain from this but trouble and misery. On the contrary, people offered him a lot of money if he returned to paganism but he refused.
The prophet sas got regular visits from angel Gabriel who dictated verses of the Quraan which he memorized and in return dictated to the people around him. These people also momorized these verses, passed it on, wrote it down etc.
in other words, every verse was preserved and spread among the people directly from the beginning. This process took about 20 years from the first verses untill the last one.
after the Death of the Prophet sas, all the verses were gathered and compiled to 1 book, which we know as the Holy Quraan.
So, there never was 1 copy of the Quraan...there never was a chance to temper with the content because it would be noticed and corrected immediately.
The Prophet himself could not make those verses up himself because he was illiterate. He could not read or write, so he didn't have the capacity to do that.
So, complete different situation as with the Bible. You should look into that how the Quraan was revealed and see for yourself.
Yes, I also speak about directlyformat_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
I thought we were going to use our logic and reason.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
our logic and reason took us to the cosmological argument (the one with cause and event if you can remember).
we ended up with the first uncaused being (the one and only being with no beginning and no end).
you with these assumptions on the other hand, let your fantasy loose so you are all over the place again.
In science, we take the hypothesis that answers the most questions and introduces the least new questions as the most plausible one.
So there is no need to drag whole alien civilizations and various dimensions into the equation.
That will make it so much complexer, and you add nothing extra beneficial.
Again, that is not plausible. there is absolutely no reason to add multiple layers of creators and civilizations, etc. etc. Our logic and reason does not allow that...at least not yet.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
only in the case of when you have questions that can not be answered with 1ultimate creator, so it points to that direction, you can consider it.
but I see is no reason for that right now.
If you want to call that 1 ultimate being without a beginning and an end "alien", that would be fine.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
I wouldn't recommend it to call that one ultimate being "alien", which actually means something like "stranger"
But that is your choice.
we prefer "Allah" which means "the only one worthy of worship"
I know that the christians and jews that live in saoudi arabia also use the name Allah.
I guess the prophet you are talking about is Muhammad?
So let me get this straight, an angel came down from the heavens to tell the prophet the verses that were later compiled into the Quran and this angel claimed that he was speaking the word of god? Is this your proof that the Quran is the word of god?
I understand that for a non-muslim this is had to believe...but yes, that is what I am saying.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
But lets face it. Can you find a better explanation?
There is one other important thing I forgot to mention until now:
The Sanad of the Quraan (unbroken chain of narration)
This is the list of narrators that memorized the entire Quraan and passed it down from master to student as a chain. This chain reaches all the way to the Prophet (sas).
Every link in that chain is known and verified.
There are even multiple chains like that passing through different routes. So if one of them would change the text, we would end up having different versions of the Quraan.
The fact that we dont have different versions is an extra validation that this passing on worked flawlessly.
because of this, it is not so easy for a scientist to claim that the Quraan must be written by someone. There is no room for that.
Mohammad (sas) does not claim the Quraan as his work. If it was his work, why wouldn't he claim it?
on the contrary, he made it very clear that it was Gods words...not his.
imagine William Shakespeare stating that Romeo and Juliet was not his work.
imagine Mozart saying he didn't compose anything.
Of course they would take credit for their hard work and effort. it is well earned.
So why wouldn't Mohammad (sas) take credit if the Quraan really was his work?
So what is left?
- Muhammad (sas) states he is not the writer
- After Muhammad (sas) the unbroken chain of narrators until today leaves no room for a secret writer.
Where else does the Quraan come from?
Think about it.
Thank you very much for your input, Umit. I hope you do realize that you will not find a single physicist and mathematician in the world who would accept this as legitimate proof.
I don't know anything about the verses that were passed on but i'll take your word for it that they were never changed. However, there are still 2 trust issues here: Muhammad and the angel. You did mention that Muhammad was a trusted person but how about the angel? We have no information about the angel. If the angel was not trustworthy that makes everything wrong.
The Bible and the Quran both have things written in them that are true and not true. They both have things that are partially true and exaggerated. I do not want to go into further discussion about this because one of my posts was just deleted for saying nothing wrong or bad. It was something that perhaps a muslim may find that does not align exactly with their beliefs. I am absolutely shocked that my post was deleted over this. I was very careful with my words not to say something that muslims may find offensive but I also wanted to give my point of view. I am simply speechless about it.
I wanted to say many things but after my post was deleted I found out that there is no free speech on this forum even if you are a nice person. Perhaps this is the case because there is no free speech in the muslim world, but I thought the internet would be different. Instead of peacefully discussing views that may not align with each other so we can learn from each other, I was attacked for my views. I find this forum to be extremely hostile towards non-muslims and I will stop posting here.
I also wanted to mention a few facts about Muhammad but they are actually not good things, although they are facts, so I will not say them.
I feel like this post will also get deleted but so be it, I am leaving this forum for good although I just joined. It is sad to see that the muslim world treats non-muslims like this. You guys are so easily offended when someone criticizes you constructively without bad intentions and you become very hostile and violent. I haven't said one bad thing and yet I was still attacked. I guess if I actually said something bad you would wanna kill me.
Before I leave, I'll tell you a story about my experience with the muslim world. First of all, I am a christian but I do not really practice it. I am not a fan of religion in general and I have criticized christianity a lot. I am not an atheist either and I believe that it is more likely that god exists than that he doesn't exist. For me the existence of god is not a simple yes or no, but a probability. Based on science and my beliefs I put that probability at above 50%. I am a spiritual person and I believe in science and in the spiritual world.
Now the story. I have never visited a muslim country, but I did have a layover in Qatar. I was very surprised to find out that there was a mosque in the airport. Out of curiosity I went to see it. There was a dressing room before you could enter the mosque. A man there saw I wasn't muslim and approached me to talk to me. I asked him if I can enter the mosque to pray although I am not muslim. He said that I can only enter if I am a muslim and have the right clothing. We talked about islam. I mentioned to him that in the country I come from pork is the most popular meat and we have a tradition to kill a pig for christmas day and eat it. In a very disturbed voice, he said that pigs are very dirty animals and he would never eat them. He sounded like I offended him by mentioning that we have this tradition of eating pigs.
In contrast to this story, I have another experience in a buddhist country. I went to a buddhist temple and the monks immediately greeted me and welcomed me. They told me I can explore the temple and pray to Buddha. So I explored the temple and prayed to Buddha although I am not buddhist. I felt so welcomed by the monks and I had a great experience and thanked Buddha for it.
So from my experiences the muslim world was extremely unwelcoming and I almost felt threatened by mentioning facts about my country that are not accepted in islam (like eating pork). On the other side the buddhist world was extremely welcoming and I felt very safe to be among the monks and pray in their temple.
Peace be with you Gordon, and welcome to the forum.
How is evolution mathematically possible? Single cell life existed for about the first 1.5 billion years of life on Earth. Organisms did not need to increase in size from 1 to 2 to a 1000 cells.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
How did blind nature then go from single cell life, to species with a trillion plus cells? Imagine doing a trillion-piece jigsaw puzzle in 3D of a fish skeleton. You go to the pile, and pick out a thousand pieces, then randomly assemble them. If they are successful, you can add another 1000 pieces, but what happens if there is chaos, do you start again? Could you randomly do this a billion times, and end up with a completed jigsaw puzzle of a fish skeleton? Then repeat for a fifty thousand trillion - piece puzzle for a blue whale.
Evidence would be helpful, rather than arguments. Numbers tell a story, how is this kind of organisation possible without God?
The first aliens had to come from somewhere. Who or what created the universe for aliens to live in? Aliens would need the knowledge and power of God to create life, it seems like an extraordinary attempt to say there is no God, but you need something with the power of God for creation, mmmm.
Hello gordon,
We welcome people of all faiths and backgrounds to post on this forum and discuss respectfully. As you are aware, every place has its own rules and guidelines to foster a safe and respectful environment - this is the case regardless of which country you go to or which forum or social media you partake in. There is no such thing as absolute 'freedom of speech' anywhere.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Regarding your statement that you were 'attacked' on this forum, I presume you are referring to one post of yours that was deleted. If a post is deleted, there is clearly a problem with something you have said and it should not be seen as some kind of 'attack', rather it should prompt you to think. In the post that was deleted, you were replying to a Muslim who was clearly seeking Islamic advice. You decided to answer by saying, 'I'm sorry to tell you but in this world you cannot achieve anything by praying'. Think about this now. This is an Islamic forum where Muslims come and seek advice and support from fellow Muslims, expecting a reply that is in line with the principles of their faith. You reply to the thread as a non-Muslim and enforce your worldview, disregard the beliefs of others and moreover disrespect them. There are plenty of threads for you to ask and discuss as much as you like. But to give advice to a Muslim that contradicts the teachings of Islam is wholly unacceptable. So let's be clear here. This has nothing to do with you being attacked. It's about basic etiquette and common sense, or lack thereof.
Your story about the prayer room in Qatar airport demonstrates the same issue. If you visit someone else's house there is a certain decorum you must adhere to. It is even more so with places of worship. What one person might regard as harmless, another might see it as offensive. Why would you expect to be allowed to do whatever you want wherever you go? This is not about being unwelcome but about being conscious about others' values and beliefs, in the same way you would expect people to be conscious of yours.
Your tarnishing of the whole Muslim world based upon one experience at an airport or one post being deleted on an internet forum is disappointing. You should have used these experiences as opportunities for introspection, not judging others unfairly.
Why? is it not logical? what is wrong with it?format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
I am not asking you to take my word for it. Please do not take things for granted. I encourage you to investigate it. Look it up and see for yourself.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Could the angel be evil? yes that is possible...bu then think about this:format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
The people back in that times were pagans...they worshipped idols multiple of them. They were wicked. they buried their baby's alive if it were a girl...and many many terrible things.
This angel that supposed to be evil, turned those wicked pagans into monotheists. Encouraged people to love and share and to do good things. to stay away from evil. etc.
So why would an evil angel do that? It doesn't make any sense does it?
unsupported claim.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Name 1 thing in the Quraan that is untrue.
again...name 1 thingformat_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
I actually read that post before it got deleted...and like Muhammad said in his post. That was not a nice reaction of you. So I'm with Muhammad with this one.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Well that is sad unfortunately. we actually do welcome people of all religions here. We find that is a positive thing. Because usually those people ask critical questions that never crossed our minds.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
By doing that they force us to think more critically about our own religion and not just blindly follow a faith.
So, a win-win for us all.
And you are still welcome here. I mean, didn't I patiently react to all of your questions? I didn't skip any of them, and made sure not to give short answers.
And I still tend to do so, as long as we all stay respecful.
About free speech...I think that free speech is a valuable thing, but you need to know when to use is.
My experience is that nowadays more and more people lose their touch when to use free speech and when not.
What I mean with that is, for example...
Free speech does not give you the right to go and insult people...you have the right to say anything you want, but you do not have the right to insult people.
it is a thin line between the two and the more people are focussed on "I have free speech...me me me..." the more they tend to cross that line.
unsupported claim...please provide evidence.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
how were you attacked? you got 1 post deleted for giving a not so nice reaction to someone. I got posts deleted on this very same forum for less than that...how are we hostile towards you?format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
please do, but make sure that they REALLY ARE facts.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
But if they are not facts...that means you have trouble seperating facts from fiction.
Islaam is a logical religion. a religion that makes sense. So we are not afraid of facts.
I am disappointed to hear that.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
We were not offended by any of the critical questions you asked. Im sorry you feel that way. you got 1 lousy post deleted for being not nice and you are all over the place. please calm down and dont overreact.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
I do not know what to think about any of these stories...but do you know what I did notice about your stories?format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
You judge a religion by the actions of some people...which is a wrong thing to do.
There are good and evil people everywhere and in every religion. the actions of 1 person...or even a group of people...or even an entire culture, does not make their religion right or wrong.
Culture and religion are two totally seperate things.
So, please dont do that. Look at what Islaam actually teaches you, do not look at what some muslims do...
When I said "in this world you cannot achieve anything by praying" I was not talking about praying to Allah, but praying in general to anyone. This is a true statement and I can prove it to you. Let's say you wanted to become the best football player in the world. Can you achieve it only by praying or do you have to practice every day for years? What if you wanted to become a nuclear scientist? Can you achieve it only by praying or do you have to study for years? If you have found a way to achieve anything in this world only by praying please tell me how. You would win a noble prize for sure and I will start praying every day. I don't see how saying this true statement is a bad thing. If this gets you offended then I am very sorry for you. I have other experiences with muslims and i have found that they are extremely closed minded people and get offended very easily for no legitimate reason. Btw I have some really good muslim friends but they are not fanatics about their religion. They follow the basics and they have an open mind. They were also raised in a western country (the same country as me) so that has helped them for sure in becoming rational people. The issue comes from those who are so much into the religion that their entire life is consumed by it. This is also how radical islamists are born. They become so entangled into their beliefs that they start doing radical things like terrorizing other people who don't share the same beliefs.Just so you don't think I am picking only on islam, I can say the same exact thing about christians (btw i am a christian). Those who are so devoted to Jesus that their entire life is consumed by the religion are also very easily offended when you say something that may be just very slightly not aligned with their views. However, I have never seen a christian who has ever terrorized anyone in the name of Jesus but there are thousands of radical islamists who terrorize in the name of Allah. In fact no other religion than islam has radical people doing bad things in the name of their god. I know that bad people exist in every country but only muslim bad people justify their violence in the name of Allah. Other people justify violence because they wanna get rich or gain power. Can you explain to me why islam is the only religion where this happens? I know radical islamists are only a minority but it is a large enough minority to where it affects the entire world. Christianity had its time of being radical back in the middle ages. They would kill people if their views did not align with the church. Galileo Galilei was one of those people who was killed by the church because he discovered that Earth revolves around the sun and the church didn't accept this fact. As we have advanced through science we found that many of the church's beliefs were wrong and christianity eventually changed. Now it is a very peaceful religion without any radicals. So when will islam change so there are no more radicals?I cannot say the same about buddhists. I find buddhism to be the most logical religion of them all. If i had to choose a religion, I'd definitely go with buddhism. It makes the most sense. It is based on karma and yin and yang and whether you agree or not, the entire universe works on the principles of yin and yang. This has even been proven scientifically. Here are the facts about Muhammad that make him a bad person. He led offensive military campaigns which means he was a warmonger and mass murdered people. Is this what a peaceful religious leader does? Kill people? Compared to Jesus who said "Love your enemy". Jesus was a true peaceful religious leader who never engaged in war. He had 13 wives. Why does a man need 13 wives? The only reason for having that many wives is to be able to have sex with different women all the time. ---He married a 9 year old child. ---
Last edited by Muhammad; 08-18-2024 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Making derogatory comments against the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is unacceptable.
Peace be with you Gordon,
The creation of the universe and life is history, and you can't change history, there is a truth. Either God created the universe and life, or there is no creator God. You could be a 100% right or wrong on the toss of a coin. Whatever your beliefs might be, there cannot be a 50% god. Science will never provide the evidence you seek in your lifetime.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
There is the need to search for God, and do something.
Islam teaches us that praying for things must be accompanied by effort, side-by-side. So your assumption that we rely on prayer without taking any action is incorrect. This was not what the thread starter was asking. Again, the point is that you should leave such matters for Muslims to advise on, seeing as your knowledge and understanding of Islam is very poor.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
It's funny you say this when in your last post you said you felt 'threatened' just because someone didn't like the fact that you eat pork, and that you felt attacked just because a post was deleted.If this gets you offended then I am very sorry for you.
Oh I get it, the west raises rational people and religion makes people backward. So why are western countries supporting genocide whilst religious people call for human rights to be recognised?I have other experiences with muslims and i have found that they are extremely closed minded people and get offended very easily for no legitimate reason. Btw I have some really good muslim friends but they are not fanatics about their religion. They follow the basics and they have an open mind. They were also raised in a western country (the same country as me) so that has helped them for sure in becoming rational people. The issue comes from those who are so much into the religion that their entire life is consumed by it. This is also how radical islamists are born. They become so entangled into their beliefs that they start doing radical things like terrorizing other people who don't share the same beliefs.
Unfortunately, such a way of thinking stems from ignorance and prejudice. Are you not aware of the Hindus in India massacring Muslims? Did you not hear about your Buddhist friends committing atrocities against Rohingya Muslims? You need to wake up to reality. The real world is very different to what you might hear and see in the media. Nowhere in Islam is terrorism justified. You will find that Muslims who do 'bad things' are often unaware of the teachings of their own religion. As the serious academic study of terrorism has shown, the alleged relationship between Islam and terrorism is spurious at best and dangerous at worst. Political scientist Robert Pape studied suicide terrorist attacks and found that Islam itself was not the motivation. He said, 'Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that terrorists consider to be their homeland. Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organizations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective.'However, I have never seen a christian who has ever terrorized anyone in the name of Jesus but there are thousands of radical islamists who terrorize in the name of Allah. In fact no other religion than islam has radical people doing bad things in the name of their god. I know that bad people exist in every country but only muslim bad people justify their violence in the name of Allah. Other people justify violence because they wanna get rich or gain power. Can you explain to me why islam is the only religion where this happens? I know radical islamists are only a minority but it is a large enough minority to where it affects the entire world.
Leading a military campaign is totally different to murdering and warmongering. For someone who talks about being open minded, it is shameful to mix up these things. Murder is categorically forbidden in Islam. If you study the life of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم you will see how he was actually a mercy even towards his enemies. In Makkah, his people inflicted him with every kind of suffering, eventually forcing him to migrate to Madeenah, and then waged war on him for five years. However, when he conquered Makkah without bloodshed in the twenty-first year of his Prophethood, he asked the unbelievers in Makkah who were awaiting his decision about them: 'How do you expect me to treat you?' They responded unanimously: 'You are a noble one, the son of a noble one.' He announced to them his decision: 'You may go free! No reproach this day shall be on you; may Allah forgive you.'Here are the facts about Muhammad that make him a bad person. He led offensive military campaigns which means he was a warmonger and mass murdered people. Is this what a peaceful religious leader does? Kill people? Compared to Jesus who said "Love your enemy". Jesus was a true peaceful religious leader who never engaged in war.
Again, I encourage you to study the life of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم through the lens of objectivity and open-mindedness. Allah The Almighty gave the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم the dispensation of marrying more than four women. This actually occurred for great wisdoms and for lasting benefits. The claim that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was lustful and that he married numerous women because of sexual desire is untrue. In fact, the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did not marry until he was twenty-five years old, and his first marriage was to KhadeejahHe had 13 wives. Why does a man need 13 wives? The only reason for having that many wives is to be able to have sex with different women all the time.a widow fifteen years his senior, and she remained his only wife until her death. All of his wives, except 'Aishah
While Lady ‘AishaHe married a 9 year old child.
For you to judge whether or not someone’s age at marriage is controversial you must have a clear moral framework by which to judge, but you don’t. In the United States, the legal age for marriage without parental consent or judicial permission is 18 in all states. But the age at which one can marry with parental consent is as young as 14 in Alaska. Other states—like California, Colorado, and Idaho—have no age limit at all; as long as the couple receives the consent of parents or a judge, they could theoretically marry at any age. Therefore, your comment about deserving jail betrays sheer ignorance of reality, in particular, cultures and norms beyond your own.
Of course. I will leave you with some sayings of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to provide you with a glimpse of his teachings in every aspect of life:Is this the person muslims revere the most?Spirituality
The Prophet said: 'Wealth does not come from having great riches; (true) wealth is contentment of the soul.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Cognizance
The Prophet said: 'The similitude of the one who contemplates his Lord versus the one who does not is that of the living versus the dead.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Sincerity
The Prophet said: 'Actions will be judged according to their intentions.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Mercy
The Prophet said: 'Show mercy to those on earth so that He who is in heaven will have mercy on you.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Gentleness
The Prophet said: 'Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Forgiveness
The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Virtue
The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Justice
The Prophet said: 'The most virtuous jihâd is when one speaks a word of truth before an unjust ruler.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)
Civility
The Prophet said: 'The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Honesty
The Prophet said: 'Honesty leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man remains honest and concerned about honesty until he is recorded as an honest man with Allah. Lying leads to sinfulness and sinfulness leads to the Fire. A man keeps lying and remains partial to lies until he is recorded as a liar with Allah.' (Sahîh Bukharî, Sahîh Muslim)
Tolerance
Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his companions remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim, Sunan An-Nasâ'î)
A disbelieving Bedouin urinated in the mosque, and the people rushed to beat him. Allah's Apostle ordered them to leave him alone, let him finish and pour water over the place where he has passed urine. The Prophet then explained to the Bedouin calmly, "This is a place of worship, in it is the worship of God and the reading of Qur'an." After the Bedouin had left, the Prophet then said to his companions, " You have been sent to make things easy (for the people) and you have not been sent to make things difficult for them." (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Equality
The Prophet said: 'There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for a fair-skinned person over a person with dark skin, nor for a dark-skinned person over a person with fair skin. Whoever is more pious and God-fearing is more deserving of honour.' (Musnad Ahmad)
Gratitude
The Prophet said: 'Contemplate those who have less than you and not those who have more than you, lest you belittle the favors of Allah conferred upon you'. (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Simplicity
The Prophet said: 'What is little but sufficient is better than that which is abundant but causes heedlessness.' (Sahîh Ibn Hibbân)
Humility
The Prophet said: 'God has revealed to me that you must be humble, so that no one oppresses another and boasts over another.' (Sahîh Muslim, Sunan Abî Dawûd)
Generosity
The Prophet said: 'The food of two people is enough for three, and the food of three people is enough for four.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Appreciation
The Prophet said: 'Whoever does not thank people (for their favors) has not thanked Allah (properly), Mighty and Glorious is He!' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Calmness
The Prophet said: 'Calmness and determination is from Allah and haste is from Satan.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Patience
The Prophet said: 'No one can give a better or more abundant gift than patience.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Perseverance
The Prophet said: 'There is no clement person who has not stumbled, nor is there no wise person who possesses no experience.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Mustadarak Al-Hâkim)
Nonjudgemental
The Prophet said: 'Do not search for (the faults of others), for if anyone searches for (others) faults, God will search for his.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd)
Selfcritical
The Prophet said: 'Blessed is he who preoccupies himself with his own defects, rather than those of others.' (Musnad Al-Bazzâr)
Advice
The Prophet said: 'Make things easy (for people) and do not make them difficult, and cheer people up and do not drive them away.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Moderation
The Prophet said: 'The religion (of Islam) is easy. No one ever made it difficult without it becoming too much for him. So avoid extremes and strike a balance, do the best you can and be cheerful, and seek Allah's help (through prayer) in the morning, and evening, and part of the night.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)
Charity
The Prophet said: 'Charity (sadaqah) is due upon every joint of a person on every day that the sun rises. Administering justice between two people is an act of charity; and to help a man concerning his riding beast by helping him on to it or lifting his luggage on to it is an act of charity; a good word is charity; and every step which you take to prayer is charity; and removing that which is harmful from the road is charity.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)
Community
The Prophet said: 'The believer is not the one who eats his fill when the neighbour beside him is hungry.' (Sunan Al-Bayhaqî)
Affability
The Prophet said: 'The believer is one who is sociable [with others], and there is no benefit in one who is not sociable [with others] nor in one who is not met sociably [by them].' (Mustadarak Al-Hâkim, Shu'ab al-Îmân Al-Bayhaqî)
Business Ethics
The Prophet said: 'A truthful and trustworthy merchant will be in the company of the prophets, the very truthful, and the martyrs.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ad-Dârimî, Sunan Ad-Dâraqutnî)
Employment
The Prophet said: 'Pay the laborer his due before his sweat dries.' (Sunan Ibn Mâjah)
Leadership
The Prophet said: 'On a journey, the leader of the group is their servant.' (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Shu'ab Al-Îmân Al-Bayhaqî)
Reliability
The Prophet said: 'He who does not keep his trusts lacks in faith and he who does not keep his agreements lacks in religion'. (Shu'ab Al-Îmân Al-Bayhaqî)
Accountability
The Prophet said: 'The burden of proof is upon the plaintiff and the taking of oath is upon the defendant.' (Sunan Al-Bayhaqî)
Responsibility
The Prophet said: 'Each one of you is a guardian and is responsible for what he is entrusted with.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Morality
The Prophet said: 'The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in moral excellence, and the best of you are the kindest to their wives. (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Nobility
The Prophet said: 'None but a noble man treats women in an honorable manner, and none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Unity
The Prophet said: 'Believers are like a single person; if his eye is in pain his whole body pains, and if his head is in pain his whole body pains.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Family
The Prophet said: 'The best of you is the one who is best to his own family, and I am the best of you towards my family.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)
The Prophet said: 'He is not one of us who does not show mercy to our little ones and respect to our elders.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Efficiency
The Prophet said: 'There are two blessings that many people fail to make the most of: good health and free time.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)
Education
The Prophet said: 'Seeking knowledge is a religious obligation for every Muslim (male or female).' (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sunan Al-Bayhaqî)
Inquiry
The Prophet said: 'The cure for ignorance is to question.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd)
Vigilance
The Prophet said: 'A believer is not stung from the same hole twice.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)
Discipline
The Prophet said: 'The wise one is he who has subdued his lower self and has prepared for what follows death. And the foolish one is he who has placed his lower self in pursuance of its desires and has vain hopes about Allah.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)
Modesty
The Prophet said: 'Modesty is part of faith.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Beauty
The Prophet said: 'Allah is beautiful and loves beauty.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Hygiene
The Prophet said: 'Purity and cleanliness is part of faith.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Diet
The Prophet said: 'There is no vessel worse for the son of Adam to fill than his stomach. A few morsels are sufficient for him. If he is to consume more then a third is for his food, a third for his drink, and a third for air.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)
Nature
The Prophet said: 'If a Muslim plants a seedling or cultivates a field, whenever a bird a human or an animal eats of it, it will be counted as a charity for him.' (Sahîh Muslim)
Animals
The Prophet said: 'Anyone who kills even a sparrow for no reason (should know that) it will cry alound to Allah on the Day of the Resurrection, saying, "O my Lord! So-and-so killed me just for fun; he killed me for no reason!" ' (Sunan An-Nasâ'î)
A'isha said: 'I was once riding a difficult (slow-moving) camel, so I kept hitting it. When the Prophet saw me, he said: 'Be gentle, for gentleness adorns everything in which it is found, and its absence leaves everything tainted.' (Musnad Ahmad)
Is there any other leader who has blessed his followers with guidance and teachings so comprehensive and profound? This is why we love our Prophet, Muhammad, صلى الله عليه وسلم.
Last edited by Muhammad; 08-18-2024 at 04:57 PM.
Let me explain to you what is free speech. The western world is really the only place in the world where you can find true freedom of speech. As far as I am aware the US is the only country in the world where free speech is written into a law. Since it's a law it is well defined. Freedom of speech allows you to say anything to anyone as long as you do not threaten them. That means you can insult them, make fun of them, criticize them. These actions are lawful and you cannot get in trouble with the law by doing them.format_quote Originally Posted by Ümit
Of course these may not be nice things to do but they are lawful. Private businesses can have their own rules about free speech and they may kick you out if you insult someone. However, they can only kick you out and you cannot get in trouble with the law because you haven't done anything illegal.
So if the president is giving a speech and the audience can ask questions, you can curse him and make fun of him and there is absolutely nothing the police can do about it, as long as you do not threaten him. They may kick you out for being too disrespectful especially if the audience is booing you, but you cannot get in legal trouble for doing it.
However, if you say "i will kill you" to any person, you can get in serious trouble because that's a threat.
I see that you censored my post once again lol. Not surprised one bit by it but honestly I don't care at all. So let me say this then. ---
So you say hindus are killing muslims and buddhists are killing muslims. I think I may have heard that in certain minority parts of the world but also muslims are killing non-muslims, and muslims are also killing other muslims (sunni vs shia). Do you see a common denominator here? Sounds like it is muslims, so looks like they are the core reason for these atrocities. Killing and war is never justified and anyone doing it is a very bad person. But there are crazy people who won't stop until they get their revenge and if we remove the common denominator I doubt any of this would happen.
I see no need to write here anymore. I got what I came here for. It is very hard to reason with people who are incapable of rational thought, can't take a bit of criticism and are so easily offended, so I won't waste my energy with you muslims.
Nobody is capable of providing any proof of where the Quran came from which means that the very core of your religion is unknown. ---
This is my very last post here. Goodbye.
Last edited by Muhammad; 08-18-2024 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Attacks against Islam removed
Yet, students at US and UK universities who were peacefully protesting against genocide faced abuse and violence from the authorities. It seems 'freedom of speech' only applies when it suits the western world's agenda.format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
The only parts I have removed are personal attacks, which are obviously unacceptable to anyone with a bit of common sense.I see that you censored my post once again lol. Not surprised one bit by it but honestly I don't care at all.
I already responded to this point so it seems you have been unable to offer any further response. I will not allow such a reprehensible and baseless comment thus I have removed it.So let me say this then.
What of the blood dripping from the hands of the western world, who have committed atrocities all over the world and continue to fund and support genocide where Muslims are being killed? You are blind to all this and have decided to jump on the bandwagon of 'hey, let's blame it all on the Muslims!'So you say hindus are killing muslims and buddhists are killing muslims. I think I may have heard that in certain minority parts of the world but also muslims are killing non-muslims, and muslims are also killing other muslims (sunni vs shia). Do you see a common denominator here? Sounds like it is muslims, so looks like they are the core reason for these atrocities. Killing and war is never justified and anyone doing it is a very bad person. But there are crazy people who won't stop until they get their revenge and if we remove the common denominator I doubt any of this would happen.
It seems you weren't interested in rational discussion in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same rhetoric of orientalist concoction. We have responded to all of your so-called criticisms but if you expected us to allow you to post attacks then you are gravely mistaken.I see no need to write here anymore. I got what I came here for. It is very hard to reason with people who are incapable of rational thought, can't take a bit of criticism and are so easily offended, so I won't waste my energy with you muslims.
You ask for proof and yet your eyes are closed. If you have already concluded that Islam is a 'demonic cult' then why should we waste our time with you?Nobody is capable of providing any proof of where the Quran came from which means that the very core of your religion is unknown.
It most certainly is your last post because we do not tolerate attacks against Islam (even if they are passed off as 'rational thought')!This is my very last post here. Goodbye.
Last edited by Muhammad; 08-18-2024 at 08:23 PM.
That was kinda funny.
The man thought he could have a discussion with us about logic and reason.
But then when he got what he wanted, he was schocked to find out that logic and reason were actually NOT on his side.
So just looked for an excuse to bail.
At the same time it is sad because you think you are talking to an open minded decent person...so you take time and effort to inform him as good and as accurate as you can...only to find out, he was just acting interested.
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