From my past discussion with the Atheists I have come to the conclusion that the Holy Qur'an is undeniably the uncorrupted message of Allah. I am posting the following links for corroboration:
Dr. H.A. Hamed says that fingerprints are a register of the curves, which exist when the dermis adheres with the epidermis. These curves differ from one person to the other. Miraculously they are never identical in two persons even if they are twins. They appear in the 3rd month and remain the same till the person’s death, even if the skin is burned, new skin grows with the same fingerprints without the slightest alteration.
What is really interesting is that some criminals in Chicago thought that they could change their fingerprints. So, they removed the skin from their fingertips and replaced it with some pieces from other parts of their bodies. But they were disappointed because the implanted parts grew with the same fingerprints without the slightest change. That is why they are used by the police as a definite proof of the identity of the criminal.
Fingerprints are a palpable sign of God’s power. They: identify the person without the slightest mistake. So, they become the best proof and the truest witness in this world and in the next world.
God in chapter 75, verses 3-4 states that it is in His power not only to gather a dead
person’s bones, but He is able to reshape his finger prints
What, does man reckon we shall not gather his bones?
Yes indeed; we are able to shape again his fingers.
If you are prepared to accept that the Qur'an contains a scientific fact here, which could not have been known to people at the time, you are making an interpretation unwarranted by the quoted text. 75:3-4 says nothing about fingerprints being unique to each person, or their use for identification. It looks much more like the text is derived from a person's simple observation that fingerprints are complex, and, so the reasoning goes, only a very powerful and intelligent being could have designed it that way. Isn't that what the text implies? I'm sure an awareness of the fingerprint's complexity would not be beyond the knowledge of someone living around the time of the Prophet (pbuh).
A part of the discussion on the periodic law in the Qur'an :
”This is just one such rationalization; the verse is an indicator for iron??? It is even not the elemental iron, but an isotope, do you even know how many istopes there are?. ….. Saeed, try again.” <<
S3:
For the naturally abundant elemental iron there are three stable isotopes with atomic weights of 56, 57 and 58 i.e., the average atomic weight is “57”, exactly the same as the Qur’anic chapter number named “Al-Hadid” (i.e., the iron): http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/i...
Why this blatant bias against the Qur’an smileysal?
Seeing the Truth. 22 second(s) ago
Saeed:
"Your claim of knowing the truth just by judging the behavior of certain individuals, means that you are not seriously searching for the truth but, just chasing a mirage.">>>
rebosoteresita:
"Seeking for truths, as if it can be lost?
I thought there for a minute, very minute moment that you were saying something, rather that you are seeing things. Describe to us , what it is you see?"
Einstein's original motivation for adding a cosmological constant to his field equations in General Relativity was to keep the Universe static: to prevent it from collapsing. Although our Universe seems to require a cosmological constant today, Einstein's inclusion of this term really was a great blunder.
Hi saeedalyousuf, let me use your logic to present you some facts. It is very good that you brought up Einstein and an instance when he was wrong. Many scientists were wrong in the past for some things, even the greatest ones, like Einstein. Why are scientists sometimes wrong? It is because of lack of understanding of the universe. First of all, to propose something to be true in science, you need to go through extensive research and find evidence and proof. For someone to prove that your research was wrong, they would need to do extensive research and provide evidence and proof that the previous discovery was actually wrong. In both cases, extensive research is needed!
Now let's look at the Quran, can you please provide me the extensive research and proof that was done in order to write the Quran? Only when you can provide this research to me is when I will believe that there is any truth at all in the Quran. Keep in mind that this research needs to be reviewed by others and be approved by them as well. So also please provide me with all the people involved in reviewing the research done to be able to come up with the Quran.
Hi saeedalyousuf, let me use your logic to present you some facts. It is very good that you brought up Einstein and an instance when he was wrong. Many scientists were wrong in the past for some things, even the greatest ones, like Einstein. Why are scientists sometimes wrong? It is because of lack of understanding of the universe.
True
format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
First of all, to propose something to be true in science, you need to go through extensive research and find evidence and proof. For someone to prove that your research was wrong, they would need to do extensive research and provide evidence and proof that the previous discovery was actually wrong. In both cases, extensive research is needed!
True
format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
Now let's look at the Quran, can you please provide me the extensive research and proof that was done in order to write the Quran? Only when you can provide this research to me is when I will believe that there is any truth at all in the Quran. Keep in mind that this research needs to be reviewed by others and be approved by them as well. So also please provide me with all the people involved in reviewing the research done to be able to come up with the Quran.
Why this unreasonable demand all of a sudden? You expect extensive research about how the Quraan was written? why do you suddenly choose not to use your logic and reasoning anymore when it comes to the Quraan?
The Quraan claims to be the absolute word of God, word for word, letter for letter. Literally from God.
You expect an extensive research from God? how is that logical? how is that reasonable?
What you said applies to us humans, not knowing everything, needing extensive research in order to learn and develop.
This does not apply to God who already knows everything.
You want extensive research how exactly the word of God went via the angel gabriel to the Prophet (sas) and then finally into a book-form we know today?
I'm sure there are plenty islamic and non-islamic scholars who researched that exact process.
You may even find reseach on how hazardous some things are that God forbade us.
But you cannot expect extensive rearch on what things God decided to write down and why.
God does not need to explain or justify any of His decisions to us.
I have a problem with the word "claim" here. When you claim something, it doesn't mean it is true. For something to be true, there must be evidence that it is true. The Quran can only be the word of god if everything written in it is a fact. The only way to know if what is written is a fact is to verify this fact. So we need to verify that the Quran was literally written by god. Can you provide this proof to me? I also don't think it is unreasonable to question something which is not a proven fact.
I have a problem with the word "claim" here. When you claim something, it doesn't mean it is true. For something to be true, there must be evidence that it is true.
I do not do word-acrobatics. I already explained this in the other thread.
No other than the Quraan itself claims that this is the word of God Himself. if you want proof, you can look into it yourself. Various researchers have looked into this, but they do not have much of an opinion about this. let alone suggestions of a particular author.
Some researchers claim that the stories in the Quraan pre-date Muhammad sas and are copied from the Bible or at least the apocryphal stories of it...which is only partially true.
Let me explain:
Of course these stories pre-date Muhammad sas, because they are not new. They are literally historic events that actually happened in the time of Adam (as), Moses (as), Noah (as), Jesus (as) and all others. So, of course those stories all are going to look as if they were copied from each other because the source is the same. And of course some of the stories will look like as if it were taken from apocryphal stories of the bible, because even those stories appearantly contain truth.
But the difference is that the mistakes and errors in the older versions of these stories will be corrected in the Quraan.
all the prophets are higly respected figures, carefully selected, noble persons who all were the perfect example for their own people.
They may have made some mistakes occasionally, but it was corrected right away and none of them actually sinned.
So prophets that get themselves drunk and sleep around with their own daughters, or a prophet who wants some married woman and goes ahead and kills her loving husband...
that is not really a befitting model for a prophet.
So the Quraan rementions those actual historical events, and even corrects them.
format_quote Originally Posted by gordon freeman
The Quran can only be the word of god if everything written in it is a fact. The only way to know if what is written is a fact is to verify this fact. So we need to verify that the Quran was literally written by god. Can you provide this proof to me? I also don't think it is unreasonable to question something which is not a proven fact.
I told you how the Quraan came into existence. No scientist (muslim or non-muslim) seems to have a different opinion about it. You will not find even a suggestion of who might be the potential author or authors of it.
I suggest investigate this issue yourself because you wouldn't be convinced if someone else tells you that.
Or you can take one other route which might be a little easier for you:
The word of God needs to be flawless. So that means, that if you find even 1 flaw or contradiction in it, you would prove it is not the word of God.
Which is a challenge for you.
But it needs to be a real flaw. anything you find not plausible because you do not see the whole picture yet, does not mean it must be a flaw.
You can look in the book "Tafsir ibn Kathir" for the accurate translation and the first explanation of the verses and what exactly they refer to.
Tafsir ibn Kathir is accepted as reliable by the most muslims and you can find it for free online.
It should even exist in APP-form.
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The Holy Qur'an is the Irrefutable Evidence (OP)
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