Peace and blessings upon those who are seeking to learn to learn the path of Islam, Peace and blessings upon those who are not on the path.
I give an open Challenge to any christian regarding the Bible and the Quran in the Light of modern science, Also regarding contradictions in either Holybook.
If any christian would like to accept we can head off the debate In the LI chat at a specific time. Therefore we dont go around looking in the internet for the answers that wont even work. This seems fair just have a few witnesses in the chat.
I think so 2, But i dont want to wait 1 week for a response when the person searches all over the net and comes back with a weak arguement that will just annoy everyone. But good Point Adl
We are ready ! and why not! Our book is the quran! our religion is islam - the fastest growing religion in the universe!
Our only condition is just to be specific !
we grant a Friendly & a peacfully debate
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
I think your right? But why not accept Christian friends? You guys seem to be following your lord and savior Jesus Christ ( Pbuh). Im sure since 2 billion people follow christianity. Im sure they can attempt to debate. I mean after all Christianity is The Trinity.
And it seems that a few christians on this board seem to try bashing on Islam. So if those that think Islam is scientifically wrong, and if there are any contradictions in the Quran. I give an open challenge.
If the christians dont accept, and continue to bash on Islam on this board. Then i ask brothers and sisters on this board just ignore those who are bashing on Islam on this board. Because if they believe their religion to be so superior i challenge them.
Also i need a few people to be present in the chatroom. I just want this to be fair. We can do it on the board i dont mind, but i think the chatroom would be nice. Therefore, we dont have any excuses. Just straight forward answers.
And it seems that a few christians on this board seem to try bashing on Islam. So if those that think Islam is scientifically wrong, and if there are any contradictions in the Quran. I give an open challenge.
Please allow me to apologize on behalf of those who may be bashing Islam. Yes, I am a devout follower of Jesus; yes, I want to be involved in dialogue and debate with Muslims; No, I do not want to be disrespectful or an Islam basher.
Second, I agree with Ansar Al-'Adl. However, I would love you to raise a topic and we can go to it ! I will also do the best I can to keep up with the dialogue. Sometimes there will be breaks in time of response. Think about this:
The race is not to the swift, but to those who keep on running!
Sincerely,
“The force of reason is capable of compelling the
other party to accept one's argument.” Shaykh Salman al-Oadah
------------
"But set apart the Messiah as Lord in your hearts, and always be ready to
give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."
1 Peter 3:15
I'm not a Christian, but I'd like to accept the challenge on a small scale by making one point on the famous Qur'anic embryology. It's often touted as being a miraculous premonition of modern science, whereas there are in fact other such descriptions of the developing embryo in writings long before the Qur'an. Also, the Qur'anic description does not correspond to modern knowledge - there is at least one mistake.
Let's look at one of the verses from surah 23:
14:
And we created man from a portion of clay. Then we made him a drop in a firm place. Then we formed the drop into a clot, then we formed the clot into a morsel, then we formed the morsel into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh. Then we brought it forth as another creation. Blessed is Allaah, the best of creators.
The highlighted section implies that the bones are formed before soft tissue, which is incorrect. In fact, cartilage in the form of a skeleton turns into bone while muscles are formed around it at the same time. The Qur'an makes no mention of this process.
If god wrote the Qur'an, and has perfect knowledge of all things, he surely wouldn't have made this mistake, would he?
Reponse to Friend Gibson of his question he states
Here is A more Better translation of what the few surahs he forgot to have Mentioned Which ties all together:
And certainly We created man of an extract of clay, Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place, Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. Then after that you will most surely die. Then surely on the day of resurrection you shall be raised. Holy Qur'an (23:12-16)
Even though this question shouldnt be addressed as this debate is between a christian and Muslim but nonetheless lets answer it
1) If you do not read the Glorious Quran properly in Arabic your translation will be off very off.
2) The highlighted section implies that the bones are formed before soft tissue, which is incorrect. In fact, cartilage in the form of a skeleton turns into bone while muscles are formed around it at the same time. The Qur'an makes no mention of this process.
If you read It properly you would see that First it was a Lump of flesh which then turned into Bone Which can be in reference to Cartilage. Then Allah swt says later that Allah swt clothed the bone with Flesh.
Dr. Keith Moore states "This verse from the Quran states that God made you from a drop and then changed the drop into a leech-like structure which soon changed into a chewed like substance that then took the shape of bone and was clothed with flesh."
So wheres the mistake?
Last edited by mahdisoldier19; 02-11-2006 at 06:11 PM.
Another important item of information provided in the verses of the Qur'an is the developmental stages of a human being in the mother's womb. It is stated in these verses that in the mother's womb, the bones develop first, and then the muscles form which wrap around them.
[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (Qur'an, 23:14)
The bones of the baby completing its development in the mother's womb are clothed with flesh during one particular stage exactly as stated in the Qur’an.
Embryology is the branch of science that studies the development of the embryo in the mother's womb. Until very recently, embryologists assumed that the bones and muscles in an embryo developed at the same time. Yet, advanced microscopic research conducted by virtue of new technological developments has revealed that the revelation of the Qur'an is word for word correct. These observations at the microscopic level showed that the development inside the mother's womb takes place in just the way it is described in these verses. First, the cartilage tissue of the embryo ossifies. Then, muscular cells that are selected from amongst the tissue around the bones come together and wrap around the bones.
This event is described in a scientific publication titled Developing Human in the following words:
… [T]he shape of the skeleton determines the general appearance of the embryo in the bones stage during the 7th week; muscles do not develop at the same time but their development follows soon after. The muscles take their positions around the bones throughout the body and therefore clothe the bones. Thus, the muscles take their well known forms and structures… The stage of clothing with muscle occurs during the 8th week…86
In short, developmental stages of man, as described in the Qur'an, are in perfect harmony with the findings of modern embryology.
“The force of reason is capable of compelling the
other party to accept one's argument.” Shaykh Salman al-Oadah
------------
"But set apart the Messiah as Lord in your hearts, and always be ready to
give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."
1 Peter 3:15
Even though this question shouldnt be addressed as this debate is between a christian and Muslim but nonetheless lets answer it
Well, since no Christians seem to want to debate with you, I thought I would.
1) If you do not read the Glorious Quran properly in Arabic your translation will be off very off.
Well, what a good argument! If all the translations are wrong, then I just won't bother reading the Qur'an at all.
If you read It properly you would see that First it was a Lump of flesh which then turned into Bone Which can be in reference to Cartilage. Then Allah swt says later that Allah swt clothed the bone with Flesh.
Well, in the translation you've given that's what it says. What does it say in the original Arabic?
Dr. Keith Moore states "This verse from the Quran states that God made you from a drop and then changed the drop into a leech-like structure which soon changed into a chewed like substance that then took the shape of bone and was clothed with flesh."
Ah, Dr. Moore! He crops up again and again. I'm so glad he managed to get funding for his textbooks. If he was actually led to believe that the Qur'an was accurate, and therefore must be from god, don't you think he would have converted to Islam by now?
So wheres the mistake?
It appears to be in every translation I've seen except yours.
This event is described in a scientific publication titled Developing Human in the following words:
… [T]he shape of the skeleton determines the general appearance of the embryo in the bones stage during the 7th week; muscles do not develop at the same time but their development follows soon after. The muscles take their positions around the bones throughout the body and therefore clothe the bones. Thus, the muscles take their well known forms and structures… The stage of clothing with muscle occurs during the 8th week…86
"The Developing Human" is a medical textbook by, guess who, Dr. Keith Moore! Does he mention the Qur'an in that book?
By the way, when did the new discovery that you speak of take place? Can you provide a non-Keith Moore source for it?
It seems everytime you give a reply to Gibson, he gives a weak statement back, I gave you the answer accept it do what you want with it. Even if i gave you the best answer, you would still ignore it and give another reply so in essence no point in debating with you.
As for POBOOK Is there a specific time where i can catch you in the chatroom, because i cant keep coming back in here allday
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I think all debates should be done on the forum, not the chat.
Re: Open Challenge to Christians
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