× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 2 of 6 First 1 2 3 4 ... Last
Results 21 to 40 of 120 visibility 13390

Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

  1. #1
    brightness_1
    Limited Member
    Limited Member Array abd77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    7
    Threads
    4
    Reputation
    25
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter? (OP)


    Muhammad said he was a prophet, therefore we have two possibilities; either he said the truth, or he was a liar and an imposter. Only one of these 2 can be true.

    Let’s 1st look at the hypothesis that he was a liar and an imposter, that he himself invented the Quran, and that even though he was illiterate.
    First what was Muhammad’s interest to create a new religion? Until the age of 40, he lived a happy and comfortable life with his rich wife Khadija, he was loved and respected for his honesty and morality by all of his tribe. Why would he have gone through 10 years of persecutions, hardships and reject from most of his tribe, what was his interest in going through so much suffering and persevering in the transmission of his message?

    Until the end of his mission, even when he ruled almost the whole of the Arabic peninsula (a territory about 5 times the size of France), he always lived in the most complete destitution, sleeping on a bed of dried leaves, without a castle nor a palace or anything resembling it, without a single bodyguard, wearing clothes repaired by himself, shoes repaired by himself… Why did this “imposter” never used all his power to acquire wealth, palaces and luxurious gardens like other kings and heads of states?
    And if he only had created this religion in reaction to Jews and Christians as some have claimed, why would about half of the Prophets mentioned in the Quran would be …Jewish? Why does the Quran praise so much Mary the mother of Jesus, a Jewish woman, but never mentions Muhammad’s mother, nor any member of his family?
    In order to convince the Arabs, who were often in conflict with the Jews, wouldn’t it have been easier to denigrate all these Jews instead of praising them? Yes, but that’s neither what the Quran says, nor what Muhammad said.

    Moreover, if you wanted to create and spread a new religion, surely you’d make it easy to practice, with as few constraints as possible, just like most idolatrous religions of the time. Would you try to impose the complete banning of alcohol, a whole month of fasting every year, 5 compulsory daily prayers at fixed times?… No, it wouldn’t make sense, because nobody would follow such a religion. But amazingly that’s what the Quran and Muhammad have done, without ever accepting any compromise to this message. And the most extraordinary is that this religion has triumphed over all the others !

    If Muhammad was an imposter, what was his personal interest to have his people abide by these countless food restrictions, this entire month of fasting every year, these 5 compulsory prayers every day? Why did he insist so much on these restrictions, which personal interest did he get from it?
    Of course none, it even made many tribes hesitate and sometimes abandon him. It really made his mission very much harder to fulfill, but yet he never accepted any compromise to this message.
    In a famous episode of Muhammad’s life, a tribe called Thaqif accepted to convert to Islam and to obey Muhammad if he allowed them to keep some of their idols and to be exempted from the 5 daily prayers. Muhammad refused categorically. Rather than to acquire absolute power over this important tribe without any effort, he preferred to remain faithful to the message God had transmitted him.


    But let’s still continue this hypothesis “Muhammad was an imposter and invented the Quran”, already shaken by these few facts; if Muhammad wasn’t guided by God, then we also have to admit that he was:

    -The greatest Arabic writer in history ; because no one can deny that the Quran is the greatest literary piece ever written in this language. Still 14 Centuries later, if you go to any University to study Arabic literature, you’ll study mainly the Quran for its inimitable style and the beauty of its verses. God himself challenges anyone to produce anything like it (Quran 11:13,14). A challenge that still 14 Centuries later no human has been able to meet.

    -A scientific genius; the reproduction of humans, of plants, the aquatic origin of all life, the orbits of the sun and the earth, the expansion of the Universe, these are a few of the scientific truths mentioned in the Quran, some of which discovered more than 1000 years later.

    -A genius in medicine; thanks to its very strict hygiene and food restrictions, the Quran and the Sunna (the teachings of Muhammad) have allowed Muslim countries that abode by these laws to be spared from most great epidemics that wreaked havoc in other parts of the world. Still today, look at how the latest great epidemics, the AIDS virus, has strangely largely spared the Middle East, the Maghreb and the Arabic peninsula (all the Muslim countries), whereas it causes havoc in all the neighboring regions (Sub-Saharian Africa and South-Western Asia).
    Everyone now recognizes the importance of diet, sexual non promiscuity and regular washing of one’s feet and hands to prevent the transmission of diseases. All these principles were dictated 14 Centuries ago by an illiterate Arab who had never studied medicine in his life.

    -A genius in law ; The Quran and Muhammad’s Sunna are the first great legislation in history to elaborate such a comprehensive list of the rights and duties of all human beings (several thousands of pages covering a multitude of fields), about 11 Centuries before the West had any kind of counterpart with the Universal Declaration of the Human Rights, itself much less comprehensive than the vastness of domains broached by the Islamic Law.

    -A speaker with amazing eloquence; thanks to his wisdom and eloquence, Muhammad managed to touch the heart of billions of human beings and to convince them that he was the Messenger of God, and that in spite of the horrendous persecutions that hit the first men and women that believed in his Mission. He was so much admired that tens of thousands of pages of his sermons and teachings were memorized by his companions and their descendants and put into writing to constitute what we now call the Sunna.
    From which other great Man of History have we preserved so many teachings?

    -A military genius; what Muhammad accomplished in this field in so little time, he who until the age of 52 (when God revealed him the verse ordering him to defend himself) had never shown any interest for war nor had had any experience whatsoever neither as a fighter or as a strategist, is really beyond the extraordinary.
    He’s often compared to Alexander the Great and Napoleon, but what Muhammad accomplished is even more extraordinary, and that for the 2 following reasons:

    -While the vast empires that Alexander and Napoleon established crumbled pretty quickly (a few decades after his death for Alexander and in his own lifetime for Napoleon, which shows how little support they had in the land they had conquered), the conquests of Islam not only didn’t crumble after Muhammad’s death, but continued to expand under his companions and successors. Even during the era of colonization, while the Europeans had managed to impose Christianity in most of their colonies, they never succeeded in Muslim countries, such was the attachment of Muslims to their religion. On the contrary, 14 Centuries later, in the whole of Europe and North America, it is islam and mosques are spreading like flooding waters.

    -Another big difference: Greece already was a powerful nation when Alexander took power, and France was along with England the most powerful country in Europe when Napoleon came to power. In other words Alexander and Napoleon had right from the start huge means; a great, experienced and well-equipped army…
    Muhammad had nothing, no army, no king or nation to support him, he was at the beginning completely alone. He had to convince his co-tribesmen and contemporaries one by one about the truth of his Mission, endure his tribe’s persecutions, build with his companions makeshift weapons to defend himself, then constitute a modest army with people who for many of them had no experience in fighting whatsoever.
    From this modest start, and thanks to miraculous victories over armies largely superior in numbers and in means, he succeeded in spreading Islam over almost the whole of the Arabic Peninsula.
    How could a man have achieved such a feat if he had not been protected and guided by God?

    -A political genius; thanks to judicious treaties with other Arab tribes, intelligent strategic decisions both in and off the battlefield, Muhammad managed to spread Islam on most of the Arab peninsula, and make of this forgotten and desertic land the heart of a civilization that would later expand from Morocco to India !
    And what other great King or Emperor managed to rule over such a large territory without ever owning any palace, any fortress, any bodyguard, relying only on his Lord and Creator to Guide him and Protect him?

    History has seen a few literary geniuses, and also a few military geniuses, and a handful of geniuses in each of the fields I have mentioned.
    But having a man excel in all these fields at once, surpassing all the geniuses from any period of History in such various and different domains, it is simply out of this world. And this coming from a man who had never followed any education and could hardly even read ! ! !

    Is it reasonable to think that this man (who until the age of 40¾the beginning of his Mission¾ had never shown any interest for any of these fields) could have suddenly become such a genius?
    Or is it more reasonable to think that something really extraordinary happened in this night of the year 610, that through the Angel Gabriel it is really God that addressed him and Guided him in a Divine Mission.


    You can guess of course what my opinion is. An opinion based not only on faith but also on reason.

    In conclusion, here’s what the great French poet Lamartine said after studying his life:
    “If the greatness of a man is to be measured by comparing the smallness of his means with the greatness of his accomplishments, then what great man in History can seriously be compared to Muhammad."
    Lamartine, Histoire de la Turquie.


    In truth there are really obvious signs for people who meditate. (Quran 13:3)

  2. #21
    chacha_jalebi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ambala Boxes :(
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,857
    Threads
    214
    Rep Power
    132
    Rep Ratio
    98
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Report bad ads?

    also when Audhu Billahi Minash Shaytaan Nir Rajeem is said

    the devil runs away!!

    so please think before posting kay:
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Jaa-Ro-Nee-Mo!!!


    "they ask you when will the help of Allah (swt) come! Certainly Allah (Swt) help is always near"

    Surah al Baqarah v214



    SMILE
    chat Quote

  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #22
    HeiGou's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,977
    Threads
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    -11
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi View Post
    shaytaan never came near the Prophet (saw)

    as we all know, when one human is born, a devil is born with them!!

    soooo

    it is a well known fact & even recorded in a hadiths by ibn majah, that the Prophet (saw) converted his devil

    so the devil didnt come near him!!!
    Yes but how do you know that? Can we agree that there is nothing outside the Islamic tradition and scriptures that say this?
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
    chat Quote

  5. #23
    HeiGou's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,977
    Threads
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    -11
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi View Post
    also when Audhu Billahi Minash Shaytaan Nir Rajeem is said

    the devil runs away!!

    so please think before posting kay:
    Have you seen a devil run away when you said this? Has anyone you know?
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
    chat Quote

  6. #24
    glo's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    8,472
    Threads
    395
    Rep Power
    149
    Rep Ratio
    73
    Likes Ratio
    18

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi View Post
    shaytaan never came near the Prophet (saw)

    as we all know, when one human is born, a devil is born with them!!

    soooo

    it is a well known fact & even recorded in a hadiths by ibn majah, that the Prophet (saw) converted his devil

    so the devil didnt come near him!!!
    Again, you are using Islamic teachings to 'prove your point', thereby assuming and believing that those teachings are from God.

    If, however, as I was imagining, satan had deceived Muhammed into believing his message was from God, then your whole argument would be based on satan's teachings, not God's.

    I don't think I will continue in this thread, because I am aware that what I am saying could be perceived to be very controversial and also upsetting. I have made my comments and will leave it at that. :X

    Peace.
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Peace
    glocandle ani 1 - Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]

    chat Quote

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #25
    queen_nadia's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    london
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    100
    Threads
    0
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    [QUOTE=glo;334309]I don't think I will continue in this thread, because I am aware that what I am saying could be perceived to be very controversial and also upsetting. I have made my comments and will leave it at that. :X

    cumon glo dont go!
    if we dont talk about thing even if they might hit a sour note we should still continue. if we didnt then how would we eva understand each other!!
    chat Quote

  9. #26
    Hussein radi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    159
    Threads
    12
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    7
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Sorry, what i meant was if satans( any of them) hear the verses of the Quran spoken they would be in torture. For example if some one is possessed by a devil and verses of the Quran are told to the possessed someone then The devil would run away for his life.
    chat Quote

  10. #27
    queen_nadia's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    london
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    100
    Threads
    0
    Rep Power
    110
    Rep Ratio
    2
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    [QUOTE=glo;334309]
    If, however, as I was imagining, satan had deceived Muhammed into believing his message was from God, then your whole argument would be based on satan's teachings, not God's.

    how can something come from santan if it talks so highly of jesus(isa) and mary (mariam). look we find views that try to make Allah be percieved as like a man -this as muslims we beleive, has come from santan! muslims hold Allah higher than any man or mans imaginary god. isn't that what we should all be thinking if we are really god fearing.
    chat Quote

  11. #28
    starfortress's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Dickson-Kerteh
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    395
    Threads
    16
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    20
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?


    peace to all

    I guess someone try to bring "satanic verses" issue into this threads,maybe because it became popular issue for orientalist in order to critisized about Muhammad(PBUH).But to me its better to wait and see what is their actual meaning by "satan had deceived Muhammed"
    chat Quote

  12. #29
    HeiGou's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,977
    Threads
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    -11
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Hussein radi View Post
    Sorry, what i meant was if satans( any of them) hear the verses of the Quran spoken they would be in torture. For example if some one is possessed by a devil and verses of the Quran are told to the possessed someone then The devil would run away for his life.
    No don't apologise. The problem from my point of view is that you are all using this same basic invalid argument. It may be the case that Muhammed is the last prophet etc etc. But the fact that the Muslim tradition says he is, is not proof. This is just a folkloric version of that same claim. After all, as Glo pointed out the Devil could fake something similar and presumably you think that he did in a number of case - Hong Xiuquan for instance. These claims all revolve around a circular argument. How do we know that Hong talked to God? Because he said he did. How can we believe him?
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
    chat Quote

  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #30
    rubiesand's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    344
    Threads
    57
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    29
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by glo
    If, however, as I was imagining, satan had deceived Muhammed into believing his message was from God, then your whole argument would be based on satan's teachings, not God's.
    Would it make sense to you for satan to teach humanity to seek refuge in God from satan himself as the Quran tells us to do? Or to teach that he (satan) is the avowed enemy of humanity, again as the Quran says?

    What's in it for satan when Muslims pray each time we read the Quran "I seek refuge in God from satan the accursed"?
    chat Quote

  15. #31
    Hussein radi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    159
    Threads
    12
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    7
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Becuase islam is toooooooooooooooooo perfect to be made up by anyother but god.
    chat Quote

  16. #32
    HeiGou's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,977
    Threads
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    -11
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Hussein radi View Post
    Becuase islam is toooooooooooooooooo perfect to be made up by anyother but god.
    Now that's a good argument.
    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
    chat Quote

  17. #33
    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Jewel of LI
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,681
    Threads
    189
    Rep Power
    131
    Rep Ratio
    36
    Likes Ratio
    2

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?


    This is a very strong argument and I've used it myself on the forum before. See the bottom of this post where I provided some links to a previous discussion on it, and also this post where I responded to similar claims.

    I'll respond to some of the posts in this thread when I get the opportunity, inshaa'Allah.

    Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
    chat Quote

  18. #34
    Umar001's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5,638
    Threads
    198
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    44
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    I really don't get some Muslims sometimes.

    In order to prove Qu'ran they use statements stuff like 'Satan could not have wrote it because Satan runs away frmom it when it is recited' and the next question would be, who told you this, and the Muslim says Mohammed's tradition states it, and the questioner would just laugh, because if they claim satan is the author of the quran, then they will also believe that Satan could have said this to confuse people.

    Now, to think that satan wrote the Qu'ran may sound like a good stumbling point, but it is the most interesting point ever.

    Ok, Muslims remember to see this from a non-Muslims view point for example:

    Muslim will think 'Satan could not have wrote this, because the book asks us to seek refuge in G-d from satan'

    Non-Muslim on hearing this thinks 'Well Satan wouldn't make it clear thatthis is his book, because this book is here to decieve people' now also if this non muslim is christian he will probably say 'The main aspects of Christianity are denied which shows this book is from Satan in the disguise of G-d, for example, The trinity and the Sonship of Jesus and the death of Jesus, all these point to satan having wrote this, as long as satan can full you in these matters he can tell you to say 'I seek refuge in Almighty G-d from Satan'

    So we see the reasoning behind the Non-Muslim/Christian's thinking.

    Satan pretends to be G-d to fool people about the bigger things.

    I used to think like that, in fact this was a stumbling block for me.

    Going Back and forth thinking 'what if this is just satan writing a book tryna keep me away from the death of Jesus'

    But you see this is an illogical point to stand on.

    In essence people are coming to this conclusion because this book (quran) doesnt agree with theirs so, if it doesnt agree it most be from Satan.
    They don't realise that it could be their book that is wrong, so you then look at the background of each book and see which one is pure and so forth, and you see that if anything the other book has been touched by satan.

    You could turn this around and assert that anything brought forward could be written by satan. For example, if a Christian says this to you tell him, well the authors of your bible could be mislead by satan, forget mislead they could be satanist themselves since we dont have their history.

    You see once we start saying this can be from satan or that can be then anything can be from satan.

    But if it is a Christian then they should know better.
    Some of the arguements Christians use against Mohammed, are the same arguements Jews used against Jesus according to the Bible.
    It is a classic case of history repeating itself, where nowdays if you go to Churches people swear that they would have accepted Jesus and not been like those Jews, we find those same people rejecting Jesus' brother Mohammed, because of prejudice just like the jews did.

    Jesus when faced with the accusation of being of the devil stated (ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE) 26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

    So if Satan is casting out Satan his kingdon cannot stand.

    Similarly, if Satan wrote in his book stuff like say I seek refuge from Almighty G-d from Satan the accursed. then how could his kingdom stand?

    Or think about it as in, on Judgement Day, when you are questioned as to why you chose your path.

    How can G-d punish you, if you explain 'I chose the path because the guidance was clear, there was no error in the book, it had miracles it was pure from contradictions and it was the only perfect path to take' How could G-d send you to hell, if a book like the Qu'ran was from Satan, a book which logically cant be from other than G-d.

    Anyhow, I probally have got alot of mistakes in here cos im hungry

    Peace be upon yall
    chat Quote

  19. Report bad ads?
  20. #35
    bint_muhammed's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    406
    Threads
    17
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    15
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Well that underestimates the potential of the insane - who tend to be pretty good liars anyway. I do not see that these two opinions are contradictory. Let us suppose that someone is insane and thinks he is Napoleon. To maintain this illusion the insane person must construct a fantasy world to explain away the fact that he is not Napoleon. It doesn't mean that he is not insane, nor does it mean that he is always telling the truth - even if he comes to believe his own lies. No expects the insane to sit up at night thinking how to convince people that they are what they say they are. But if they really want to convince people of their fantasy they have to be quick to invent reasons why the things they say are really true.


    u dont make sense mate! if he was insane and thought he was nepoleon why would he create and illusion for others to believe he is not!
    PLEASE TRY AND MAKE SENSE!!!!!!!!!!



    Such as?



    How is this a contradiction? Good liars never ever behave as if they are not. Look at Confidence tricksters - they are always positive and always stick to their story. But again someone may be crazy and yet inspired by information he got from elsewhere. Hong, again, picked up information on Christianity in the early 1830s but it sat unread on his shelf for 10 years. It was only after he started having fits and visions that he picked it up and realised that it referred to the figures in his vision. Being insane and picking up foreign information is not mutually exclusive as Hong shows.



    Such as?



    No idea. But what Wall of Dhul-Qarnayn? Do you think that perhaps Muslims have taken a Quranic story and applied it to a wall that has no connection with Dhul-Qarnayn even if he knew who he was? You see the problem of getting the story backwards?



    What makes you think that he would have needed anyone to have told him? Exposure to aborted and miscarried foetuses would have been common for anyone who herded sheep. Did he ever herd sheep?



    There was a French man who made a good living in Britain claiming he was from Taiwan. He got a job at Oxford University as a Professor in Taiwanese and wrote books on Taiwan's history and even a dictionary of Taiwanese language. He was French. He had never been to Asia in his life. He fooled Oxford University. Where did he get his confidence? Are you saying that only the insane can pull off a stunt like this? Evidence please.



    Or alternatively he knew his uncle very well or he knew that his uncle would never mean it - after all hypocrits do not become real Muslims and do not go to Heaven do they? And anyone who converted to Islam to prove it wrong would be a hypocrit wouldn't he? Even if Abu Lahab had "converted" to prove a point, Muhammed could just assert, correctly, he was lying and he would go to Hell and so prove Islam was true. As the Quran is true, anything that happened or happens must be reconcilable with the Quran.



    Again you are asserting a story's truth without looking at the source. Why do you think this story is true? How do you know that in fact Muslims who later believed that Muhammed was the prophet wrote this story in light of how they thought that a prophet would behave? What is the source?



    Actually it is. Liars are often very good at maintaining their lies. It is also characteristic of someone with some sort of pathology. It may well also be characteristic of the prophet of God, but Hong maintained his calm right up to the moment he died.



    Actually you can have both if you feel like it. More to the point, you have excluded other possibilities and asserted there are merely two. This is not the case as we know of other cases where the leader was clearly not the Son of God or the Brother of Jesus. Islamic history is full of such examples as well. The same argument can be applied to them - did Hong lie or was he insane? He must have been Jesus Christ's little brother by this argument.[/QUOTE]
    chat Quote

  21. #36
    bint_muhammed's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    406
    Threads
    17
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    15
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah View Post
    I really don't get some Muslims sometimes.

    In order to prove Qu'ran they use statements stuff like 'Satan could not have wrote it because Satan runs away frmom it when it is recited' and the next question would be, who told you this, and the Muslim says Mohammed's tradition states it, and the questioner would just laugh, because if they claim satan is the author of the quran, then they will also believe that Satan could have said this to confuse people.

    Now, to think that satan wrote the Qu'ran may sound like a good stumbling point, but it is the most interesting point ever.

    Ok, Muslims remember to see this from a non-Muslims view point for example:

    Muslim will think 'Satan could not have wrote this, because the book asks us to seek refuge in G-d from satan'

    Non-Muslim on hearing this thinks 'Well Satan wouldn't make it clear thatthis is his book, because this book is here to decieve people' now also if this non muslim is christian he will probably say 'The main aspects of Christianity are denied which shows this book is from Satan in the disguise of G-d, for example, The trinity and the Sonship of Jesus and the death of Jesus, all these point to satan having wrote this, as long as satan can full you in these matters he can tell you to say 'I seek refuge in Almighty G-d from Satan'

    So we see the reasoning behind the Non-Muslim/Christian's thinking.

    Satan pretends to be G-d to fool people about the bigger things.

    I used to think like that, in fact this was a stumbling block for me.

    Going Back and forth thinking 'what if this is just satan writing a book tryna keep me away from the death of Jesus'

    But you see this is an illogical point to stand on.

    In essence people are coming to this conclusion because this book (quran) doesnt agree with theirs so, if it doesnt agree it most be from Satan.
    They don't realise that it could be their book that is wrong, so you then look at the background of each book and see which one is pure and so forth, and you see that if anything the other book has been touched by satan.

    You could turn this around and assert that anything brought forward could be written by satan. For example, if a Christian says this to you tell him, well the authors of your bible could be mislead by satan, forget mislead they could be satanist themselves since we dont have their history.

    You see once we start saying this can be from satan or that can be then anything can be from satan.

    But if it is a Christian then they should know better.
    Some of the arguements Christians use against Mohammed, are the same arguements Jews used against Jesus according to the Bible.
    It is a classic case of history repeating itself, where nowdays if you go to Churches people swear that they would have accepted Jesus and not been like those Jews, we find those same people rejecting Jesus' brother Mohammed, because of prejudice just like the jews did.

    Jesus when faced with the accusation of being of the devil stated (ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE) 26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

    So if Satan is casting out Satan his kingdon cannot stand.

    Similarly, if Satan wrote in his book stuff like say I seek refuge from Almighty G-d from Satan the accursed. then how could his kingdom stand?

    Or think about it as in, on Judgement Day, when you are questioned as to why you chose your path.

    How can G-d punish you, if you explain 'I chose the path because the guidance was clear, there was no error in the book, it had miracles it was pure from contradictions and it was the only perfect path to take' How could G-d send you to hell, if a book like the Qu'ran was from Satan, a book which logically cant be from other than G-d.

    Anyhow, I probally have got alot of mistakes in here cos im hungry

    Peace be upon yall
    WELL PUT :brother: kay:
    chat Quote

  22. #37
    Umar001's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5,638
    Threads
    198
    Rep Power
    130
    Rep Ratio
    44
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Lol ALhamdulilah sis, Im glad its understandable.
    chat Quote

  23. #38
    bint_muhammed's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    406
    Threads
    17
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    15
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    Has Any Of (non-muslims) Read Or Studied The Quran? If Not I Suggest U Do And Then I Will Hear Your Accusations!
    Peace
    chat Quote

  24. #39
    saad52988's Avatar Limited Member
    brightness_1
    Limited Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    12
    Threads
    3
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    7
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    salaam
    no one should need toread that and confirm that Prophet Muhammad(SAW) was a true prophet.
    Everyone should all ready believe in him.
    chat Quote

  25. Report bad ads?
  26. #40
    Hussein radi's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    159
    Threads
    12
    Rep Power
    111
    Rep Ratio
    7
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?

    I have a question to the Christians. If Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) is an imposter(!NOT!) then why is he mentioned in the Bible? And in the Tura?
    chat Quote


  27. Hide
Page 2 of 6 First 1 2 3 4 ... Last
Hey there! Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter? Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Muhammad: a Prophet or an imposter?
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-24-2015, 04:46 PM
  2. Life of Prophet Muhammad PBUH – Stories of Hazrat Muhammad SAW
    By anisafatima in forum Share Your Links
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2015, 06:21 AM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-25-2012, 12:06 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-02-2010, 07:01 PM
  5. 12 Proofs that Prophet Muhammad was a True Prophet
    By Abu Muhammed in forum Seerah
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-31-2007, 11:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create