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what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Question what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer (OP)


    Peace be upon u all....

    Well i have couple of questions to ask to my fellow brothers/sisters in christianity or even judaism...and muslims are also welcome...

    Can someone explain wot is meant by original sin? as i've studied in childhood that some believers believe that children are born with sins and when they enter this world they eventually become pure,as examples were given such as james bulger case...as some think does original sin exist?
    but others believe including myself, we are born with pureness when we enter this world people start commiting sins.

    Also my second question is about Adam and Eve as i've studied in religious studies, did original sin start from there? because the fall of the eden...
    therefore was eve blamed to tempted adam to have the apple? as i have studied in RE that because of eve tempted to have an apple, women are cursed by God thru child bearing, menstrul cycle, women are seen as a object in the society then equal amongst men....

    and how are men and women are seen in christianity, equally? or are women subordiante to men?

    found an article from wikipedia...

    Some branches of Christianity fully accept the tradition of Adam and Eve as portrayed in the Bible, and although some hold various views expressed in the Pseudepigrapha, they do not accept the later Jewish Midrash.

    The story of Adam and Eve forms the basis for the doctrine of original sin, a doctrine that is held as true by many branches of Christianity, but is not shared by the Orthodox [9] or Congregationalist churches, nor by Judaism[citation needed] nor The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "Sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned," said St Paul in his Epistle to the Romans, writing in Greek about 58 AD.[10] St Paul was not being true to the Hebrew of Genesis, which nowhere mentions the words "sin" and which does not say that Adam was punished with death. (Adam's transgression in Genesis 3 is disobedience, not sin, and he is expelled from Eden not in order to die, but so that he may not eat of the Tree of Life and become immortal).[11] St Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD), working with a Latin mistranslation of the epistle, understood Paul to have said that Adam's sin was hereditary: "Death passed upon (i.e. spread to) all men because of Adam, [in whom] all sinned".[12] Original sin, the concept that man is born in a condition of sinfulness and must await redemption, while founded on a forced reading of Genesis followed by an exegesis based on a mistranslation, nevertheless became a cornerstone of Christian theological tradition, primarily in Western-rite churches.

    Over the centuries, a system of uniquely Christian beliefs has developed from the Adam and Eve story. Baptism, which predates Christianity has become understood as a means of washing away the stain of hereditary sin.[13] Additionally, the serpent that tempted Eve was interpreted by some to have been Satan, although there is no mention of this identification in the Torah. In fact, Genesis does not even hint at any of these readings, and their observance by many Christians has marked the religion's radical break from its parent.

    Because Eve had tempted Adam to eat of the fatal fruit, some early Fathers of the Church held her and all subsequent women to be the first sinners, and especially responsible for the Fall. "You are the devil's gateway," Tertullian told his female listeners in the early 2nd century, and went on the explain that they were responsible for the death of Christ: "On account of your desert _ that is, death - even the Son of God had to die."[14] In 1486 the Dominicans Kramer and Sprengler used similar tracts to justify the Malleus Maleficarum ("Hammer of the Witches") that led to three centuries of persecution of "witches".

    Eastern Orthodox tradition holds that the sword placed at the entrance to Paradise to prevent humankind from returning to the Garden was removed once Jesus was born.

    hopefully u can all answer my questions...wid evidence from the bible...

    Thanks alot...
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    All i hope is for my mums happiness.Shes my light.Shes my dunya.Her tears are my weakness.Her sadness breaks my heart.She is my mirror.A mirror that keeps me alive.Without her am nothing.shes my saaya.How can i leave her.I pray to Allah(swt) to keep me with her forever inshAllah.

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    Im sure you have heard of the word "Love" . We messud up and God help his children, if a fathers son was in trouble he wud help him, mosts fathers wud die for his children because he loves them, Just think how much more our father in heaven loves us!

    God bless friend


    That doesn't apply to god since he created everything, theres no need for him to die since he created death, god is above everything he created the punishment so why use it on him self when he controls it.
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    im sorry but im not getting sense from that.

    God bless
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    love doesnt apply to God?
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    im sorry but im not getting sense from that.

    God bless


    You used the example of our farthers giving their lives for us, then you compared that to god then I asked why would god die for us since he controls death wouldn't he just be imune to our human flaws.
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth View Post


    That doesn't apply to god since he created everything, theres no need for him to die since he created death, god is above everything he created the punishment so why use it on him self when he controls it.

    Hello and greetings

    For what its worth, I'm not certain that God did actually create death.What He done was to warn Adam that the inevitable result of disobedience to God would result in death.
    We do know that God, at some time in the distant past, created the Lake of Fire, which was created for the devil and his angels, (but as yet is uninhabited).
    So, it seems that death, (the end of physical experience) was brought on by man himself but somewhere within Gods creation is Hades, where the souls of the dead await the day of Judgement.
    Because all have sinned in some form or another, Hades seems to have a legal right to keep those departed souls trapped there.

    Jesus came to "undo" the devils work, and part of that undoing was accomplished in Hades. Because, unlike us, Jesus NEVER sinned, and although,according to the Bible,His soul went to Hades, that place did not have any legal right to keep Him there.
    Jesus won the battle over all of our sins, and the devil ,at His death on the Cross,and His victory extended into Hades.
    On the third day after His physical body had been executed,His sinless soul re-united with His risen Body.
    Jesus has tasted death, the tomb, and Hades (all the result of our sins) and has had the Victory over them all.

    And that Victory is shared by all those That Jesus died to save.

    That is why Jesus said that He is the ressurection and the life, and that all who beleive in Him, even though they die, they will live. Those who believe in Jesus for what He has done, pass through death into life, and that means NO Hades !!
    This is part of the good news that Jesus wants the whole of humanity to hear and beleive!!!
    He is the difference between everlasting death and everlasting life !!

    Albee
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    There was 2 boys who grew up together being best friends. Eventually when they grew up they grew apart. One of them became a judge and another became a criminal. A while later the criminal had to appear in court against his old friend who was to judge him. The judge recognised his old friend, and because he loved him he didn’t want to punish him, but as he was a fair judge he had to! So he fined his old friend, stepped down as judge, wrote a check and offered to pay his friends punishment! If his friend didn’t want his gift of the cheque he would have to pay the punishment himself.

    In the same way Christians believe this is what God has done for the world, man sinned, God has to judge sin but at the same time loves us so he stepped down to take our punishment for us. But the punishment isn’t only a fine its eternal separation from God, and it didn’t cost God just a check it cost him his only begotten son.
    format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth View Post
    hold on why does god have to take the punishment in the story you related the judge would have had to answer to a higher authority but who does god have to answer to?
    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    i was expecting a lame reply to that story, cmon ur brighter than that, im using the story as an example!

    That’s like asking me "How do u know the judge could afford to pay his friend’s fine" That’s not important and neither is the question u asked.
    Excellent story illustration of what God did for us in sending His Son to die for us. God to be JUST must punish ALL sin. But in His LOVE and MERCY to us, He sends Christ to die for our sins, to pay for them IN FULL.

    Romans 5:8 - - But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    1 Peter 3:18 - - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.

    Peace
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    By the way, every person is faced with this choice:

    Either (1) believe the Bible when it says Christ died for our sins and rose again.

    Consequence of believing that: His payment, along with your repentance, means you are no longer under condemnation for those sins ("There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." -Romans 8:1 (NAS)).

    Or (2) believe the Quran when it says Christ never died (let alone for anyone's sins).

    Consequence of believing that: You have no sin-bearer and you must pay for all your own sins for all eternity.

    Very simple choice but it has profound, eternal consequences.

    Personally, I believe Muhammud did not understand the need for Christ to die for our sins. In addition, to him that would have meant defeat, when in fact it meant our eternal victory over sin, death, the grave, all that is evil and all of the effects of evil. No angel ever told him that Christ did NOT die for sins. And even if an angel did tell him that, the angel, according to Paul, is accursed:

    Galatians 1:

    8. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
    9. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    The "gospel" is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:

    1. Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    2. by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.
    3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4. and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

    So the choice is simple. Believe the Bible and the Gospel and be saved. Or believe the Quran which denies the Gospel and be lost.

    Peace
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by Phil12123 View Post
    By the way, every person is faced with this choice:

    Either (1) believe the Bible when it says Christ died for our sins and rose again.

    Consequence of believing that: His payment, along with your repentance, means you are no longer under condemnation for those sins ("There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." -Romans 8:1 (NAS)).

    Or (2) believe the Quran when it says Christ never died (let alone for anyone's sins).

    Consequence of believing that: You have no sin-bearer and you must pay for all your own sins for all eternity.

    Very simple choice but it has profound, eternal consequences.

    Personally, I believe Muhammud did not understand the need for Christ to die for our sins. In addition, to him that would have meant defeat, when in fact it meant our eternal victory over sin, death, the grave, all that is evil and all of the effects of evil. No angel ever told him that Christ did NOT die for sins. And even if an angel did tell him that, the angel, according to Paul, is accursed:

    Galatians 1:

    8. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
    9. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    The "gospel" is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:

    1. Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    2. by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.
    3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4. and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

    So the choice is simple. Believe the Bible and the Gospel and be saved. Or believe the Quran which denies the Gospel and be lost.

    Peace

    Salaam,

    So as you say it is a personal choice in this matter.
    But the Bible makes clear what actually the death is for.
    forgiveness from sin,,all sin correct.
    But then the curse for original sin still exist.
    So again youa re correct it is eprsonal choice,to believe you are forgiven by a gods death but yet still cursed by another god.

    Or you can beleive that you bear your own sin,that if you atone for that sin then it is forgiven and not eternal as you surmised.
    In Islam death is not necessary for firgiveness,Allah is Almighty he can forgive for his mercy is BOUNDLESS.


    so i say to you,accept Islam and be forgiven for your sin..To live each day with Allah in your memories to,be follow the laws.

    Or stay in your errornous way and think you are forgiven but still bear the curse of original sin...still be cursed by your god(the father)
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    Yes the curse of origninal sin still exsists but thats because people still sin. But the punishment for sin has been paid, by Jesus Christ, so that who so ever believes in him shall not persih but have eternal life! Revelation says there is no curse in heaven because there is no sin in heaven, and those who choose to accept Jesus and live a life following him, will one day be made sinless. But those who choose to reject the gospel will face an eternal seperation from our heavenly father.

    If i followed something of the normal i would be a fool, i lived a life of drugs parties drinking crime and i have to admitt i enjoyed my sin, but i found something real exciting alive and powerful come into my life. I experienced the love joy peace power and works of Jesus Christ in my life, i would not leave my old life and friends for something of the ordinery, i was saved bye the supernatural and extraordinery that i know in myself that Jesus Christ is truely the son of God.

    God bless
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    I will post on this when I have finished other articles inshallah.

    Sorry for anyone who has adressed me please be patient with me

    Eesa
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    Yes the curse of origninal sin still exsists but thats because people still sin. But the punishment for sin has been paid, by Jesus Christ, so that who so ever believes in him shall not persih but have eternal life! Revelation says there is no curse in heaven because there is no sin in heaven, and those who choose to accept Jesus and live a life following him, will one day be made sinless. But those who choose to reject the gospel will face an eternal seperation from our heavenly father.

    If i followed something of the normal i would be a fool, i lived a life of drugs parties drinking crime and i have to admitt i enjoyed my sin, but i found something real exciting alive and powerful come into my life. I experienced the love joy peace power and works of Jesus Christ in my life, i would not leave my old life and friends for something of the ordinery, i was saved bye the supernatural and extraordinery that i know in myself that Jesus Christ is truely the son of God.

    God bless
    Salaam,

    Alhamdulilah,so you do admit that the sin still exist.

    But again i point out to you that you cannot prove that youa re forgiven spirutally.
    But there is ample prove that you are not forgiven THOUROUGHLY,and PHYSICALLY.

    For when you say forgiven and yet unforgiven..it is a paradox.It is an interpretation,of you wishes of what you want a statement to be.

    I just wish to reiterate that we are talkling about GOD,a being omnipotent and and omnicient.
    All powerful and all aware and yet decided to FORGIVE but not remove the curse.

    What is logic behingd that?
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    Im sure you have heard of the word "Love" . We messud up and God help his children, if a fathers son was in trouble he wud help him, mosts fathers wud die for his children because he loves them, Just think how much more our father in heaven loves us!

    God bless friend
    Salaam,

    Love is an emotion and specifically a man made emotion to explain somthing that casues us to do heoric acts and unbridling compassion and caring for a stranger.

    Such a word was used in teh chrisitna context to much horror of a muslim such as myslf.

    May i ask,when you speak about love,do you think that god loves men and men to fornicate?
    Do god love womena dn women to fornicate?
    Or does your bible do not contain sadom and gammorah?

    Alternative churches in san francisco go so far as to say,,GOD IS LOVE,WHY DOES GOD CREATE US THE WAY WE ARE IF HE DID NOT INTEND IT TO BE...

    The vry notion of love has casued the church to abandon many laws that are in the bible,forgetting pubishment in the name of love and thus going agains tthe law set in the bible..

    Is it love that make chrisitan to abandon the bible laws?
    Or is it man desire?



    So pls,do not throw the word love around to explain the notion self involvement.
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    All powerful and all aware and yet decided to FORGIVE but not remove the curse.

    What is logic behingd that?
    If there was no sin there would be no curse but there still is sin, Jesus didnt lift the curse but he payed the punishment, its not that hard to understand?

    But again i point out to you that you cannot prove that youa re forgiven spirutally.
    I never said i could mate, but you cannot prove your sins are forgiven, like i said i have proved to myslef that Jesus us alive, thats all i need to know.

    Salaam,

    Love is an emotion and specifically a man made emotion to explain somthing that casues us to do heoric acts and unbridling compassion and caring for a stranger.

    Such a word was used in teh chrisitna context to much horror of a muslim such as myslf.

    May i ask,when you speak about love,do you think that god loves men and men to fornicate?
    Do god love womena dn women to fornicate?
    Or does your bible do not contain sadom and gammorah?

    Alternative churches in san francisco go so far as to say,,GOD IS LOVE,WHY DOES GOD CREATE US THE WAY WE ARE IF HE DID NOT INTEND IT TO BE...

    The vry notion of love has casued the church to abandon many laws that are in the bible,forgetting pubishment in the name of love and thus going agains tthe law set in the bible..

    Is it love that make chrisitan to abandon the bible laws?
    Or is it man desire?



    So pls,do not throw the word love around to explain the notion self involvement.
    Ok your defining what love is? and your saying its a made made emotion, ive never herd anything like this, are you crazy? Love is not only a feeling its a doing.

    Does God love men and men to fornicate? what do u mean? that is a weird question?

    Ansd yes the bible contains sodom and gommarah? so?

    God created us with free will, if he didnt we would all be robots, but he wanted to give us the choice between him, and rejection of him. He had to make another option available.

    What church has love cause to abandon the bible laws? remeber there are many different churchs with different donominations.

    Dont throw the word love about? i have experienced the love of God and you cannot say i havnt, so dont tell me not to throw the word about.

    God bless
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    If there was no sin there would be no curse but there still is sin, Jesus didnt lift the curse but he payed the punishment, its not that hard to understand?



    I never said i could mate, but you cannot prove your sins are forgiven, like i said i have proved to myslef that Jesus us alive, thats all i need to know.



    Ok your defining what love is? and your saying its a made made emotion, ive never herd anything like this, are you crazy? Love is not only a feeling its a doing.

    Does God love men and men to fornicate? what do u mean? that is a weird question?

    Ansd yes the bible contains sodom and gommarah? so?

    God created us with free will, if he didnt we would all be robots, but he wanted to give us the choice between him, and rejection of him. He had to make another option available.

    What church has love cause to abandon the bible laws? remeber there are many different churchs with different donominations.

    Dont throw the word love about? i have experienced the love of God and you cannot say i havnt, so dont tell me not to throw the word about.

    God bless

    Salaam,

    Again i say,as you say,jesus paid the payment,,may i ask you,if he has paid for all sin for christians,why are you then still inflicted with curses?
    Even in a secular or shariah court when you have done your time in incarceration you are then let go to begina new life.In the eyes of law you ahve paid your due and thus accorded all states of a human being and a citizen.
    But what about chrisitan,you claim you are forgiven and the punishment meted out on god but yet this god still curse..

    Dont you still get it...
    Do you worship a god that forgives but yet curses what he has forgiven?
    Is that a loving god?


    As for sin being forgiven,i cannot prove it NOR COULD you despite all the irrational argument you come out with,the most paughable is when you talk about spiritual forgivness,but yet still cursed physically.
    As i siad in a previous post,if Adam died at 930,when he was the first sinner,and now man dies at the age less than 100,,,does that not mena the curse has become worser,,thus you are never forgiven.


    I asked you about fornicationa dn sodom and gammorah casue supposedly the notion of love can explain away all of god law.

    Check this out..the anglican church now apporves of a gay bishop,in san francisco there are gay churches and the partake of "my body" literally..
    So are you sayin these diferent denomination dont have sodom and gammorah in their bible?
    Or do they choose not to see.
    The church leaders say LOVE casues them to choose these alternative lifestyle whcih god condemmned,,so why dont you?


    Also i dare say you have not experienced the love of god but the love of friendhsip that you gain from a community of like minded individuals,it is called friendship.
    If the love of god casues you to abandon the bible then may i ask are you following god laws or your own.

    God loves and do get angry and gives punishment,unless of course you have edited the stories of how many civilisation are destroyed by god wrath..

    Love yes but it is tempered with obedience with the laws that is good for man..
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by Phil12123 View Post
    God, through Paul, said in Romans 6:23:

    23. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    And God, through James, said in James 1:15:

    15. . . . and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

    There are at least three different kinds of death: physical, spiritual, and eternal. The last two are the most important, although after the first one, no one can do anything more that will have any effect on the last two. Only in this present life, before physical death, can we do anything to effect or remedy whether we are spiritually dead and will be eternally dead.

    As I have stated in my previous posts, the sin or rebellion of Adam and Eve brought forth their spiritual death and ultimately their physical death. If they were forgiven, they are in heaven. If not, they are in hell awaiting the judgment that has them cast into the lake of fire, which is called "the second death" (Revelation 20:14; 21:8; also referred to in Rev. 2:11; 20:6). That is what I call "eternal death." In Rev. 20:12, John says, "I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God..." In his vision, John saw the "dead" stand before God. That would either be referring to the physically dead who at that point had been resurrected, or the spiritually dead, who had never been born again (born spiritually), standing before God. In any event, their names are not written in the Book of Life, so they are cast into the lake of fire.

    When we consider a person's body, soul, and spirit, we might break it down thusly:

    1. body - the physical aspect of a person. It is a person's tent, or temporary dwelling place, until he gets a new one "not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor. 5:1-4). We get our new one at the resurrection. At that point we will no longer have any sin nature. That is when "the redemption of the body" (Romans 8:23) occurs, when "this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:54). At that point, all taint of original sin will have been removed! No more death of any kind!! EVER!!!

    2. spirit - the spiritual aspect of a person. It is a person's connection to God, his capacity to commune and have fellowship with God. It is broken by sin, that separates us sinful beings from a Holy, Righteous God. That broken connection is only connected by removal of the sin, and that is done only by payment for the sin. Only Jesus paid for that sin; He is the only sin-offering sent by the Father that is acceptable to the Father. Our acceptance of that offering opens the door to restored connection to God; rejection of it brings eternal judgment for sin.

    3. soul - that is the nonphysical, nonspiritual aspect of a person---the real you. It is separate from the body and can live (or exist) when the body dies. Everyone has one, or IS one, and it never dies or ceases to exist. Jesus distinguished the soul and body in Matthew 10:28: "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Occasionally, "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably to simply refer to the nonphysical aspect of a person: "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" James 2:26. There "spirit" is just talking about breath, as in the expression, "he breathed his last," or as in the old expression we see in the Bible, "he gave up the ghost [or spirit]."

    So, to answer your question, from Adam we got a body that is subject to death (i.e., mortal), and a soul, and a dead or nonexistent spirit. The first will be fully and totally restored at the resurrection. The last is remedied now by a new birth in Christ, when "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).

    Peace

    Sorry about my late reply been just doing stuff, havent had time to fully dedicate time to this so i chose to leave it till I cud in order to provide the proper attention that should be applied out of respect and clear intentnion to learn.

    I will reply with a short question because I am still trying to make sure I understand your view point without me personally assuming anything.

    So from my understanding you are saying that, we have inherited defects from Adam, one for example is having a "dead" spirit, until we are born again, and only two of these defects can be altered in this life, 1 the spiritual aspect 2. the eternal soul aspect, but the body is no matter what gonna be subject to death in this life, and we have no chance of changing that until after we are ressurected?
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    explain what u mean? does this answer u in saying Jesus died so we could be forgiven, Jesus dying didnt mean sin was gone, even christian sin, as long as man is choosing sin then the effects of sin is going to take place, but if man chooses Christ one day that curse will be lifted and we will all be made sinless.

    God bless

    Peace, nice speaking to you again after a while.

    Hope all is well.

    I am just wondering if you could clarify something for me, I am trying to be careful not to get the wrong understanding so please be patient with me.

    From the above quote it seems to me your saying that, the effect of sin, things like people dying and women giving birth in pain are only happening because the person that died had sinned and the woman who gives birth in pain has sinned.

    But if they had not sinned they wouldnt die or give birth in pain.

    Is this a right understanding of your view point?
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by Phil12123 View Post
    By the way, every person is faced with this choice:

    Either (1) believe the Bible when it says Christ died for our sins and rose again.

    Consequence of believing that: His payment, along with your repentance, means you are no longer under condemnation for those sins ("There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." -Romans 8:1 (NAS)).

    Or (2) believe the Quran when it says Christ never died (let alone for anyone's sins).

    Consequence of believing that: You have no sin-bearer and you must pay for all your own sins for all eternity.

    Very simple choice but it has profound, eternal consequences.

    Personally, I believe Muhammud did not understand the need for Christ to die for our sins. In addition, to him that would have meant defeat, when in fact it meant our eternal victory over sin, death, the grave, all that is evil and all of the effects of evil. No angel ever told him that Christ did NOT die for sins. And even if an angel did tell him that, the angel, according to Paul, is accursed:

    Galatians 1:

    8. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
    9. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    The "gospel" is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:

    1. Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    2. by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain.
    3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4. and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

    So the choice is simple. Believe the Bible and the Gospel and be saved. Or believe the Quran which denies the Gospel and be lost.

    Peace
    Or you can believe in a G-d which forgives those who truly repent without him being subdued by laws of having to sacrafise things.
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi
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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to an

    format_quote Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah View Post
    But if they had not sinned they wouldnt die or give birth in pain.

    Is this a right understanding of your view point?
    i'm not 4-Christ-Alone, so you have to wait for him, but i can qoute this part you are talking about:

    16 To the woman he said,
    "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
    with pain you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you."

    17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
    "Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat of it
    all the days of your life.

    18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.

    19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return."
    so it seems that "pains in childbearing" are not a matter of personal sin. you may be "sinless" and still it will hurt (as long as you are alive)
    BTW; giving birth to human children is so painfull because of 2 things:
    1) that we walk on 2 legs and this have changed our pelvis
    2) size of brain
    so pain is a price for knowlegde (of good and evil). not only in Bible but also in antrophology
    n.
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    Zulkifilm

    Ill try to explain better for you mate. First ill explain what sin is, sin is not something that exsists, like an apple or a banana, just like cold does not exist, coldness is the lack of heat. The same as darkness is the lack of light. So sin in the same way is lack of good, or better lack of God. Sin was never created, a choice other than God was made available which is "evil" or "sin" because God is good.

    So, the wages of sin is "death" ( Romans 6:23 ) and an eternal seperation from God! But the free gift of God is eternal "life" through Christ Jesus our Lord. So Jesus came to take the hand of man, and take the hand of his father and join us together. Jesus didnt come to take the curse away from the physical world, but to take away the eternal consiquences from sin of the spiritual world.

    IsaA....

    Good to see you again also, i will reply to what u said 2mor night i am tried at the moment lol.

    God bless

    Sean
    what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

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    Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

    format_quote Originally Posted by 4-Christ-Alone View Post
    Zulkifilm

    Ill try to explain better for you mate. First ill explain what sin is, sin is not something that exsists, like an apple or a banana, just like cold does not exist, coldness is the lack of heat. The same as darkness is the lack of light. So sin in the same way is lack of good, or better lack of God. Sin was never created, a choice other than God was made available which is "evil" or "sin" because God is good.

    So, the wages of sin is "death" ( Romans 6:23 ) and an eternal seperation from God! But the free gift of God is eternal "life" through Christ Jesus our Lord. So Jesus came to take the hand of man, and take the hand of his father and join us together. Jesus didnt come to take the curse away from the physical world, but to take away the eternal consiquences from sin of the spiritual world.

    IsaA....

    Good to see you again also, i will reply to what u said 2mor night i am tried at the moment lol.

    God bless

    Sean
    Salaam,

    I never said sin is tangible.But again we are not discussing on what sin is but the affects of sin.

    We have already concluded by the bible that supposedly for the origianl sin,got the fathr cursed adam and eve,with thorn and thistle to the world,eve with child birth pain and men dominion over women.

    Thus we can conclude form the bible that god war wroth and cursed.

    We have also concluded that there are many times when GOD cursed a people or a community but then forgave them and the punishement was lifted.It is easy for god is it not?

    But now we come to the current.If Jesus died to save chrisitan from sin,why then does the curse still resound in every chrisitan now?

    ANd when you say sin is the lack of GOD,do you then denounce all the OT,of all the Propehts who were led by GOD to save the different races?Do you denounce the way of atonement set in the OT?

    When you say the wages of sin is "Death"...may i ask,dont w have to die to enter eternal life?Thus death is a prerequisite preceding eternal life.

    My question has always been simple but so far the quesiton and point raised by yourself and others ,begs more question.
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