Evolution and the Afterlife

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

Hi, there is a thread in Islam Global Message Forums that has a great beginning with some Qur'an references, for the discussion of Biological Evolution, and I have not time to replicate my own contribution to it here. But am in need also of contributing to this discussion. First the thread can be found at http://islam.forumwise.com, perhaps in the education issues section rather than comparative Religion, but I could be mistaken.

However what I really need to contribute here, that was moderated out of that Islam Global Message Forums thread (I guess by a tired moderator, or that I had composed my contribution imperfectly mixed with other material), is the reference to Jesus prophesy that one day, and in Paradise, we will have bodies with no need of urination or excreeting faeces.

Now I was recently in a conversation of necessity with a very poor person indeed, of the sort whom can rightfully be regarded as in debt of knowledge stolen by nazism. It transpired that it occurred to me that since a plants respiration system is the opposite of an animals, that by combining the two in a single organism we could attain.

So now I wonder, will my toenails grow into hooves and become roots, and my skeleton a trunk that upon mistletoe will evolve into a skull, and will my hair be sprouting shoots? I would say I had better only grow inedible poisonous fruit! Also that I had already learned of the fact that opiate addicts have been attuning too far into the teaching of Jesus since the time of nazi Germany, effectively robbing others of the benefits of, and that I knew of such before I mentioned this possiblity to any person, is the fact to the matter of my mentioning of the context in which the idea first occurred to me. It is an idea that, if opium users are attuning with, must be made more readily knowable if it is to be able to occur. They who Dream of escaping Death through opium use by imagining themselves in one third a tree are to pay for the truth to become available to every good Muslim.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

well it is said that the afterlife is beyond anything we can imagine, and that the examples given were just to create a general idea. But I did think that we would be returned to our physical bodies for the afterworld, so you don't have to worry about moss growing on your northside and dogs passing by.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

But this is a serious question that we need not worry our selves unduly about. Can it be that the solution Jesus prophesised is that our physical body will become a combination of animal and plant respiration systems? Is there evidence in Qur'an to support this postulation?

Consider the experience of sitting still for a very long time and the sort of certainties that can come upon us in that condition, while the certainties that come upon us in the condition of rapid movement are of an entirely different nature.

I have seen an insect exo-skeleton that was woody! Now by no means am I saying that in Paradise we could be insect like, but we may need to be able to understand an insects nature so as to never express such. Or we may need to be able to understand a tree's nature so as to want to know in the way a tree can.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

Ridicurezipa said:

But this is a serious question that we need not worry our selves unduly about. Can it be that the solution Jesus prophesised is that our physical body will become a combination of animal and plant respiration systems? Is there evidence in Qur'an to support this postulation?

Click to expand...

No it's not. Why should we worry about the details of the after life when we will fail to fully comprehend them anyway? What's important is the general idea -punishment or reward for eternity- and i think that part is overly clear.
Also I don't see how Jesus (pbuh) prophesised such a thing, do you have any source of that? and even if you do have source, remember that biblical scriptures are no longer accurate and aren't the same as the origenal scriptures.

Consider the experience of sitting still for a very long time and the sort of certainties that can come upon us in that condition, while the certainties that come upon us in the condition of rapid movement are of an entirely different nature.

Click to expand...

So what exactly are you trying to say here? Sitting still would give lesser expieriance then moving about, as moving gives us more actions to store in our memory creating a longer interpretation of the time-frame. So I guess one could be considered more peacefully. But what you need to take under consideration, is that the afterworld will be nothing like this world, it doesn't have the same rules, not the same limitations, not the same problems.

I have seen an insect exo-skeleton that was woody! Now by no means am I saying that in Paradise we could be insect like, but we may need to be able to understand an insects nature so as to never express such. Or we may need to be able to understand a tree's nature so as to want to know in the way a tree can.

Click to expand...

Ok first of all this has nothing to do with evolution. If -and I think this is incorrect- but for teh sake of argument: if Allah would want to grant us a diferent body in the afterlife, or a difrent form of it, then he would just do so easely and since judgement day has passed there would be no need to do this under the veil of evolution. I mean, these suggestions are quite wild and very of-topic here. Here we are discussing evolution, not speculating of how our bodies would be in the afterlife, let alone look for a link between those two. Furthermore none of this seems to be consistent with what we do know about the afterlife out of the qur'an and the hadeeth.

With all do respect for your opinion, I can see how it got moderated in other formus as it is very off-topic.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

I fully believe that my assertion about Jesus prophesy is actually straight to the point rather than being off the topic. However that said, I must also say that it is totally understandable that another person could disagree. I will attempt to explain this reasoning.

I have for some few years now, been experiencing Dreaming with Angels, and including Jesus. This is my base line fact.

It is also the case that I have been requested by Jesus to forgive a heroin user, whom has established a heroin selling business that was oriented to wrongfully faulting my self for many years whilst I was in a prolapse and could not know about. But it is in this fact that the situation worsened in that when I began to forgive, because I am also aligned to Mecca, the heroin user began to try to forgive me forgiving her. But now it has turned out that it was not her fault. Yet within the middle of all of this portrayal of seemingly unrelated facts, is that the heroin sales in Canberra Australia, had begun to become dependant upon sacred teachings that rightfully belong to all Muslims.

It is also the case that heroin users here in Australia, after having been cut off from a source of sacred knowledge through my self, have sought to blame their heroin use upon growers of opium poppies in Afganistan, and other Muslims through whom the opium trade routes are active. We are informed on television here in Australia that 90% of the world trade of opiates is through Afganistan, but we have verification external to the mass media. But that reporting is causal to heroin users seeking to blame Muslims for their use. I prevented them blaming my self only by composing poetry in association with, but such that heroin users can no longer prey upon me without encountering poetry in my mental associations, that they then find it necessary to face the truth of their heroin use in the face of, when they Dream of whilst using heroin and faulting wrongly me. Why this is relevant is because the sacred knowledge that heroin users most of all seek is that knowledge relating to evolution.

They have been causing that their own disbelief enters into the minds of Muslims only by their false accusations of Muslims being culpable for any heroin use or trade, or even tempting 'the west' to imagine that such trade is occurring. But what it is that they have been enabled by such wrongful accusations is of immense expense, because they have in fact been stealing of the teachings of Jesus about what we will be like in Paradise. This knowledge is essential for us to be within now, since to adequately prepare ourselves, and accept all that will happen to us before we attain Paradise, we need to accept the fact of the future of our biology.

The fact is that heroin users have been accessing the teaching to sustain their experience of heroin when their physical body should have been dying. The are using actual instruction as to the future biology to cause that they form a reconciliation of the respiration of flora and fauna, but only in body of emotion and mental body, not their actual physical body. Yet their physical body experiences the teaching and so sustains breathing, until they are less effected by the drug, at which time they acquire a pride that tells them they need some pride in order to be able to interact in the world, and so they take to themselves the pride of denying any of the knowledge that they have acquired, since such can prove also that they should by rights already be dead. It is that massive quantities of Faith are being wasted, and most of such is in the field of study of biological evolution.

I can report that I have learned by Forgiving a single heroin user that what they are thriving upon is a certainty that the respiratory system of flora can be reconciled with the respiratory system of fauna into a unique Human biological form.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

I should say also that the phenomena I refered to of a different quality of knowledge falling to the mind of the physical body while at rest, is in my self the form of knowledge of pure faith, whilst in my self the knowledge that falls to the mind when in physical labour is of greater hope. Of this I am and can be certain, but also consider that it is not possible for another to be certain of this in me, especially over the internet.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

I guess then that there is no point in stating only that I am certain of the opposite:

that the whole point of there ever having been any scientific research into the process of biological evolution is so as that we are caused to think of what the positive future outlook is for the evolution of our biological base.

Of course it is a matter that is the same as the afterlife.
Paradise has a physical existance!

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

Ridicurezipa said:

I guess then that there is no point in stating only that I am certain of the opposite:

that the whole point of there ever having been any scientific research into the process of biological evolution is so as that we are caused to think of what the positive future outlook is for the evolution of our biological base.

Of course it is a matter that is the same as the afterlife.
Paradise has a physical existance!

Click to expand...

You're contradicting youreself.
Either you suggest we will evolve into this new specie in this world and thus is it important to look into this.
Or you suggest that we will be given a difrent body in teh afterlife. But then it's not trough the proces of evolution.
Either way, that still doesn't make a difrence.
What you suggest is a theory for a possible future. This thread is all about discussing what happened in teh past, not what could possibly happen in the future.

Your theory is not evolution. Your theory is a prediction of the future based on evolution. This thread is about discussing evolution, not about predicting the future based on evolution.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

steve said:

You're contradicting youreself.
Either you suggest we will evolve into this new specie in this world and thus is it important to look into this.
Or you suggest that we will be given a difrent body in teh afterlife. But then it's not trough the proces of evolution.
Either way, that still doesn't make a difrence.
What you suggest is a theory for a possible future. This thread is all about discussing what happened in teh past, not what could possibly happen in the future.

Your theory is not evolution. Your theory is a prediction of the future based on evolution. This thread is about discussing evolution, not about predicting the future based on evolution.

Click to expand...

Here I must quite agree that it is that I have jumped in upon a discussion of past evolution with a perception, my own, that belongs of the future. Yet I will also tell only that this perception is entirely based in my own past experience of Australian Aboriginal initiations.

I should say a little about such, and state that such became in consequence of the diaspora of the Jews and all the intermarriage that happened thereafter. It is in fact that Bhyame whom was one of the first Saints among Australian Aborigines and an initiator (in function like Imam), is held by some to be Ezra. There exists a biological difference among Aborigines of Australia whom let ourselves become turned into an actual animal of physical form upon death. This tradition in Australian has a history as long as the evolution of a genetic here, that contains all the genetics of every race of people. The question that is asked in the post after that I have quoted from about Jews and Apes is also about the intermarriage that diaspora caused.

The death rites of Australian Aborigines are illustrative. Upon death the Human part of a person is "sung" (or chanted more accurately) into the body of an animal which carries the same maternal mitochondrial DNA pattern. (that is of the same density of vibration at bones) For a period of about two weeks every person whom remembers the deceased and is able to, co-locates and remembers what are the debts of the deceased to their community. Then the body is placed into a burial pole, and the process continues for another three months before any cremation is allowed. During this period of time it is that every aspect of the deceased that had attributes of any type of flora or fauna, or even land forms, are re-ascribed existance within such. There are occasionally women present whom are able to find that the Human Spirit of the deceased again in far future can begin again in a Human carnal/physical form.

This practise has the advantage of a cleansing of the genetic that is constantly occuring. But it is also that we all have gradually become attuned with the genetics of the native flora and fauna of Australia. Perhaps the distinct attributes of Australian flora and fauna can be attributed to this practise that in fact begins with a series of initiations, in childhood, adolescence, before marriage for men, and in childbirth for women, and on into senior years. The major one of such for men being that immediately prior to marriage and that incorporates a subincision, following upon circumcision for boys at eight. That matter is not however mine to report upon any further than that such exists.

But perhaps what I state here should only be regarded as the underlying cause behind me having been able to make the assertions that I have made.

Never-the-less, I shall add that we are racially a little different in the quality of muscular strength. We tend toward more internal diaphragm strength and less rigid external muscle strength, except in one of the thigh muscles that I must apologise for not immediately recalling the name of. It is a muscle that attaches at the top to the groin and runs down the inner thigh and joins to another running all the way to the ankle, and long and very thin muscle, external to other inner thigh muscles and rotating from towards the front of the thigh at the top to further to the back of the knee. The strength of this muscle in combination with the internal diagphrams tends towards a quite distinct, walking habit in which the ankle remains extended and weight is not placed overly upon only the toes.

It happens also that this muscular pattern is in conjunction with an extended ability to retain physical body sensitivity in extremity of conditions, though certainly not all Aboriginal persons can sustain our self in total sensitivity. But there is an increased tendancy for disease to be manifest in the body in preference to the mind, and this is borne out in the health statistics that are held as a terrible problem, but in fact indicate a genetic intolerance for the conditions of modern urbanised life. Aboriginal life expectancy is on average seventeen years younger than that of the average Australian population. On the other hand there is a notice in the most recent edition of an Aboriginal news paper of the 100th birthday of a female Gidja/Warmun people Elder, from the East Kimberley, whose company is enjoyed by very very many grandchildren and great grandchildren. But here I need truly move my commentary to another thread with the significance of the fact that she was not sent a birthday card from the Queen of England as every other Australian Citizen to turn 100 has previously.

Thanking all those with the stamina to have been reading the whole post.:sister:

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

Sister I still don't see what your theory has to do with evolution.
Evolution is the proces where trough an accidentical mutation of the DNA a specie acquires new charesteristics. And the proces of natural selection that makes this specific creature overpopulate the origenal over generations.

You mimic in some scientific words, but that doesn't make your theory scientific. "Chanting the human part" which part of our bodies aren't "human"? Mitochondrial DNA the same as with animals? Mitochondrial DNA being linked to density of bones and vibrations? There is nothing scientific about that.
And if you really want to pass your stuff as scientific, here's some pointers for the future.

1. It is full of holes. Fill them up, explain every step.
2. Bring some data. Not necesairly proof, but at least something that suggests your theory is right.
3. Have a test that can strenghten your theory.
4. And most importantly make it more credible. Every single sentence of your post defies the general logic of a scientific mind. You might have good reasons to believe that this is true, because your building towards something with this theory, and because you want this theory to be true. But for somebody who knows absolutely nothing about this, each step brings him closer to wonderland. Each spiritual concept has to be explained. Each metaphysical step has to be made more credible by suggesting it is actually nothing miraculous about it.

What I am purporting to is that my own DNA has already undergone a transition, and such is through accepting an initiation of being turned into animal/plant/geological feature/according to uninhibited identifications, and that such experience in the extremity of perceiving fully the truth in Jesus, has already enabled my self better eyesight for example.

I am 38 and my eyesight is very good, long and short sighted, and I perceive a far larger colour range in the natural world that are all other persons (other than my own children, and one man of my aquaintance, but whom I have been forced apart from). This is only one example.

However my total experience is that we may eventually become in physical form what seems to be lesser in the evolutionary scale, but is by the combinations of the exact flora and fauna genetics being brought to fore in our own Human genetic as we are requiring, very much more enabling of our finer density bodies.

Everytime I think I've heared it all you come and surprise me with yet another amazing statement. Your DNA has undergo a transition to that of a plantlike evolutionary form? Have you had your DNA tested? If this is true that would be breaking news!

However this raises some question in my head. Do you have an Idea how your body is still working in it's regular way? I mean, on the outside you still look like a regular human being right? So how do your cells make the necesairy enzymes that we need on a daily basis in order to survive?

another question that comes to mind. Do you know the life span of a human cell? This depends on the function of the cell, red bloodcells for example live for 3 months. Some live shorter some live longer, I don't feel like looking the exact data up, but lets' just take 3 as average. That would mean, that every three months you have an entirely new body made up out of new cells. Now if your DNA has made a transistion, then your DNA would make up difrent cells, plant cells in your case. So in about three months give or take a lil' bit form this transition you would change into your new... shape.

Btw, I have to ask, how is eye-sight related to plants? The only eyes I know in plants are the ones on patato's but they don't provide a good vision.

I have not stated that I am already part plant.

But that I am already able to perceive the building blocks of Paradise are in the world around me.

Perhaps it is only that I am suggesting that the visit to Hell is causal to becoming able to perceive reality in totality. The visit to Hell has been experienced by me and I have retained a memory set in the Valley of the Dead. In my case it can be considered to have been caused by the combination of a Traditional Aboriginal initiation of being turned into an animal (believe me that I side with all those whom are opposed to the fact that some Aboriginal persons have portrayed our initiations as an anal rape) in the immediate afterlife, and conceiving of being Forgiving of Jesus, whom stated that we must all die to follow Him into everlasting life.

My body is functionally far superior to that of, for example, my mother.

What I am suggesting is two things. That an increase in the perceptions that differentiate ills from reality in Qur'an is causal to: a) becoming aware of the vastness of the way toward evolving biological Paradise; and b) becoming such that I am in totality driven by a want to live that fears no discomfort of life.

Here to make it plainer I can assert in all sincerity that I am 100% bodily more afraid of pleasure than of pain.


Now I add a little in an edit: the situation with the DNA is that each of us already contain the entire DNA of many plants and animals as well as all Human disease. The RNA molecules that read the DNA can change the patterns within only one life span of which pieces of DNA are being read. Try even only for a half an hour considering "what if I am about to embark upon my visit to Hell any minute" I can cover for you that much, which is the reality of what many whom shirk are letting their minds adhere to. They intend not to ever visit Hell, but suppose that they could so as to obtain of the evolutionary advantage. This is the reason that Australian Aborigines both white and black, whom in the past would have been regarded as community leaders, have been in functional roles within criminal situations, so as to find out how the criminals were learning so much of our work.

This is a critical aspect of many of my posts. If criminals seek advantage in shirk by supposing that they can present themselves as accepting of the visit to Hell imminently, yet without intention, then the patterns of social conduct need adapt accordingly. We might as well all be considering ourselves in that boat.

Re: Biological Evolution – An Islamic Perspective

Ridicurezipa said:

Hi, there is a thread in Islam Global Message Forums that has a great beginning with some Qur'an references, for the discussion of Biological Evolution, and I have not time to replicate my own contribution to it here. But am in need also of contributing to this discussion. First the thread can be found at http://islam.forumwise.com, perhaps in the education issues section rather than comparative Religion, but I could be mistaken.

However what I really need to contribute here, that was moderated out of that Islam Global Message Forums thread (I guess by a tired moderator, or that I had composed my contribution imperfectly mixed with other material), is the reference to Jesus prophesy that one day, and in Paradise, we will have bodies with no need of urination or excreeting faeces.

Now I was recently in a conversation of necessity with a very poor person indeed, of the sort whom can rightfully be regarded as in debt of knowledge stolen by nazism. It transpired that it occurred to me that since a plants respiration system is the opposite of an animals, that by combining the two in a single organism we could attain.

So now I wonder, will my toenails grow into hooves and become roots, and my skeleton a trunk that upon mistletoe will evolve into a skull, and will my hair be sprouting shoots? I would say I had better only grow inedible poisonous fruit! Also that I had already learned of the fact that opiate addicts have been attuning too far into the teaching of Jesus since the time of nazi Germany, effectively robbing others of the benefits of, and that I knew of such before I mentioned this possiblity to any person, is the fact to the matter of my mentioning of the context in which the idea first occurred to me. It is an idea that, if opium users are attuning with, must be made more readily knowable if it is to be able to occur. They who Dream of escaping Death through opium use by imagining themselves in one third a tree are to pay for the truth to become available to every good Muslim.

Click to expand...

where i cant find it? :?

Ridicurezipa said:

http://islam.forumwise.com/islam-thread1442.html

Click to expand...

thankyou

:salamext:


Sahih Bukhari - Volume 008, Book 074, Hadith Number 246.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Abu Huraira (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him) : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Allah created Adam in his complete shape and form (directly), sixty cubits (about 30 meters) in height. When He created him, He said (to him), "Go and greet that group of angels sitting there, and listen what they will say in reply to you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your offspring." Adam (went and) said, 'As-Salamu alaikum (Peace be upon you).' They replied, 'AsSalamu-'Alaika wa Rahmatullah (Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you) So they increased 'Wa Rahmatullah' The Prophet added 'So whoever will enter Paradise, will be of the shape and form of Adam. Since then the creation of Adam's (offspring) (i.e. stature of human beings is being diminished continuously) to the present time."

source: http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=74&translator=1


Based On the information given in this hadith, I did some calculations, have a look at it.
As we already know that,
1 meter = 100 centimeter
12 inches = 1 feet
12 inches = 30 centimeter
-------------------------------------
as 1 m = 100 cm
30 m =30x 100=3000 cm
as 30 cm =12 inches
1 cm = 12/30 inches
3000 cm = 12/30x3000=1200 inches
as 12 inches =1 foot
1 inch = 1/12 foot
1200 inches= 1/12x1200= 100 feet

well, 100 feet tall………so that means everybody in Jannah will be quite tall, ………I didn’t know that before.

(I hope I did the calculations right.)



:wasalamex

Now all the responses I am reading in this thread are making me happy.

It is that I was ill with a prolapse for many years from an accident in early childhood, and upon my full recovery in 2002, just before turning 34, I began to experience Dreams of walking through the Valley of the Dead.

So that I have made any assertions at all about what Jannah will be, and what we will be like in Jannah, I can adequately frame within the experience of my own certainty of having already made a visit to Hell.

It is that I experience I can know what is the difference between Paradise of the future, and any old perception of the worlds of old in existance within the Earth's atmosphere that have been damaged by black magic. My self of Jannah of the future I already can inhabit within my present physical/carnal form, and be certain in some of its knowledge.

This has been enabled by a gradually increasing endurance of an indigenous initiation within an Animist tradition, that once converged with Christian teachings, caused that I accepted the totality of the fate of the worst of Earth's sinners, though during a death within my own relative innocence. Thereby I am early among those to fully recall in totality the experience. I am certain of my eldest son having also endured such, and one other Aboriginal Man.

While at times I am a little overly hopeful in what I expect other persons can bring themseves to believe, I am also certain that in Jannah, the correct form is a combination of plant and animal respiratory systems. Yet I believe also in the world of denser physical matter, so that is how I come to be wondering what my eventual physical form will be like, and whether I will cause insh Allah that my hair be more like the new shoots of a plant in the distant future.

It is that when the world ends it is the world in which we become entrapped by black magic that ends. Thereupon we are enabled to evolve.

I have been very angry about the heroin users and others whom in skirk have been stealing from my Dreaming at night of the substances of Jannah since they enable themselves only a delusion of. But therein will be their downfall since they lock themselves into a pattern of time in which there is no way out of the visit to Hell.

I should say also about this state of my being at this time, that is of transition (perhaps it will be a thousand and one year transition during which each of us will be enabled to become conscious within the Valley of the Dead), that I experience quite often as though by accident, that the Laws of Jannah are at work in the physical world around me. So it is to me as though all providence of this world, a world in which most persons are still caught by black magic even with certain will to overcome and certainty in Allah and Qur'an, is providence by miracle. For example, I have very little monetary means, but when I am truly in need, that I need simply manifests. Not that it appears out of nowhere, but that somebody else leaves one behind, or the price of becomes reduced. But it is exactly these phenomenon of which I am experiencing being stolen from, and that explains my anger. Yet the anger is a good anger, in that it causes me to want to make it that other persons can make their visit to Hell sooner, and join with me in beginning to experience the makings of the future health of Jannah.

I should also say that my self in Jannah is indeed considerably larger than my present physical form, but there is also a replica of my present physical form, that alters only according to my actual carnal being, and I can only assume that these two will reconcile once I marry. It is sad that those of us, including my future Husband, whom have already made the visit to Hell, have been found first by those whom seek to abuse us in false hope of finding a way to avoid paying for their own crimes, and that explains why I am not yet married. But also, our stories are of remarkable survival, and that is the quality of my understanding of what has been happening to me that I wish to impart.

My certainty of Faith, and strenght of Hope, are such that I am certain there is no endurance I will not undertake, to make Jannah at Earth for every Human being. The extremities of Human behaviour need never again be enacted, since there are now an increasing number of persons whom by will are going to take all memory of the abuse of children into the fires of Hell. My message is that it is worth enduring such for the joy of life thereafter, even when sharing the world with others whom have yet to understand what of their world must end. So I guess that what I am trying to communicate, is that we need not wait for all the signs, we can begin now to work to understand what is required by us of Allah to perfect Jannah. I am not yet so fully grown as Adam, but I believe that I will become so eventually in carnal/physical form.